Shooting in Germany

Lonesomerhodes

Nijmegen wrote: »

Looking at the guys ramblings, this is an interesting one. He’s clearly got fascist racial ideology down. I know it’s practically a meme that when a white suprematist commits an attack like this it’s classed as “mental illness”, but the guy was also fairly clearly mentally ill - admitting to hearing voices all his life and so on.

I don’t think that the fascist racial ideology and the mental illness are mutually exclusive. This guy was open to be radicalised, and he was likely radicalised by the normalisation of racism from people in political places of influence (the AFD in Germany, what we see in other countries particularly the US.) So he is both a terrorist and an example of how race baiting from those in leadership can seriously move to help radicalise someone who is open to radicalisation.

The pervasive hate we now have in public discourse did not exist at the bare naked surface a decade or two ago. For most people open to listening to or spouting it, it just allows them to be d-heads in little ways. And then you have people like this guy who go down the rabbit hole and don’t emerge till it’s time to release their manifesto and murder a load of innocent people.

And then we get threads like this arguing over whether the sky is blue and trying to score body counts.

Troubling times we live in.

As you know the mental illness will be ignored and the white supremacist (whatever the hell that means) will be hammed up to an absurd degree in the media.

Eric Cartman

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

As you know the mental illness will be ignored and the white supremacist (whatever the hell that means) will be hammed up to an absurd degree in the media.

Its the gemmo o doherty problem , spouts on about conspiracy theories like chemtrails and lizard people etc.... happens to also say a few racist bits, people zone in on that part and declare them a white supremacist rather than just a mentally ill person spouting every bit of sh*te under the sun.

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

Did I say website?
Lots of people don't consume their news via Web even these days.
Actual news channels on TV, usually the 1st 5minutes at top and bottom of hour and the tickets.
BBC have just run a fairly detailed report on Victoria Derbyshire at 10.07.

Sky have relegated to secondary, Euronews are swapping between Germany and the EU budget as their headline but between 7 and 9.30 it was a secondary.

When the story broke, as can be seen from some of the comments early on in this thread, some jumped to the usual conclusion and some of the networks were awaiting reporters to arrive at the scene.

Prepping for the story to lead a news cycle.
But it hasn't fit the expected narrative, so it gets relegated.

Compare it to coverage of lower body count Islamist attacks?
Even the recent Streatham attack, with no fatalities.

There is most definitely a bias in the presentation and framing of news.
Ignoring that only feeds further alienation on both sides IMO.

Edit

BBC have to their credit led off their 1pm main news with this as their lead story and have a quite detailed report.

RTE have led with the Dail and Knocknaheeny crash.
No mention of Germany as of yet.

Just to ensure that my own bias here is at least acknowledged.

C4, ITV and C4 all carried the German shooting as a headline story, with some providing good background reporting on their bulletins from 1pm yesterday and in their late news.

RTÉ and Sky news coverage was particularly limited.

The immediate reporting, and the lack of headline or main line news from the period the attack was confirmed as non Islamist through to @10am when BBC began their detailed reporting and returned it to headline news does IMO leave a lot to be desired regarding balance.

Maybe editorial control is looser on the networks overnight?

The mental illness V political motivation argument is now well underway.
I will say I don't believe this is a Gun Control issue.
Whilst mental illness may well be a factor, if your illness drives you to target those of a different religion or colour?
One would clearly need to question what drove those motivations?

What justification does the shooter offer?
In this particular instance, the manifesto and stated motivation rely a lot on right wing, pure race, great replacement propaganda and as such should be treated as such.

Lonesomerhodes

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its the gemmo o doherty problem , spouts on about conspiracy theories like chemtrails and lizard people etc.... happens to also say a few racist bits, people zone in on that part and declare them a white supremacist rather than just a mentally ill person spouting every bit of sh*te under the sun.

The obsession with Gemma O Doherty is strong in this one!.

Funny never ever hear right leaning people mention her at all only those against her seem to be obsessed with her.

Not a fan of hers but

She doesn't mention lizard people what are ya on about?


You're thinking of David Icke, and regardless whether you think hes nuts or not (I believe he's actually incredibly bright mixing truth with fiction perhaps to keep himself alive and make a few bob in the process) he was incredibly on the ball with his writing on people like Jimmy Saville being a paedophile and a source of children for paedophile rings over 20 years ago.

Anyway that lumping people in all together is pathetically lazy intellectually.

Be like me saying all left leaning people are hardcore Nazi's as they support all socialist parties including the former Nazi party ie German socialist workers party. :rolleyes:

It's ludicrous.

bfa1509

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

The obsession with Gemma O Doherty is strong in this one!.

Funny never ever hear right leaning people mention her at all only those against her seem to be obsessed with her.

Not a fan of hers but

She doesn't mention lizard people what are ya on about?


You're thinking of David Icke, and regardless whether you think hes nuts or not (I believe he's actually incredibly bright mixing truth with fiction perhaps to keep himself alive and make a few bob in the process) he was incredibly on the ball with his writing on people like Jimmy Saville being a paedophile and a source of children for paedophile rings over 20 years ago.

Anyway that lumping people in all together is pathetically lazy intellectually.

Be like me saying all left leaning people are hardcore Nazi's as they support all socialist parties including the former Nazi party ie German socialist workers party. :rolleyes:

It's ludicrous.

I was watching a debate on this attack on France24 last night. The amount of times they said "he clearly had right wing ideologies" was ridiculous! A complete echo chamber of views from bottom feeding journalists looking to politicize the issue, divide everyone and get as much media mileage out of it as they could.

Lockstep

This thread went exactly as you'd expect:

1) Mass shooting takes place
2) Angry posters rant about Islam
3) It turns out that the shooter was far right.
4) The same posters then derail the thread into one on the left and Islam.

It's almost impressive in their ability to deflect and change the goalposts. It's like in the US where attacks by foreigners mean a flood of "CLOSE OUR BORDERS" "TRUMP WAS RIGHT" whereas if its a domestic(especially white/far right) terrorist or mass shooter then any questions about American gun culture leads to accusations of politicising the tragedy.

ohnonotgmail

bfa1509 wrote: »

I was watching a debate on this attack on France24 last night. The amount of times they said "he clearly had right wing ideologies" was ridiculous! A complete echo chamber of views from bottom feeding journalists looking to politicize the issue, divide everyone and get as much media mileage out of it as they could.

But he did subscribe to right wing ideologies so it is entirely relevant to mention it.

bfa1509

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

But he did subscribe to right wing ideologies so it is entirely relevant to mention it.

What "right wing ideologies" did he subscribe to? I didn't realise murder and insanity were right wing ideologies...

alastair

bfa1509 wrote: »

What "right wing ideologies" did he subscribe to? I didn't realise murder and insanity were right wing ideologies...

Read his manifesto.

SnakePlissken

Lockstep wrote: »

This thread went exactly as you'd expect:

1) Mass shooting takes place
2) Angry posters rant about Islam
3) It turns out that the shooter was far right.
4) The same posters then derail the thread into one on the left and Islam.
.

But this didn't happen at all. In the opening two pages before it became known that this attack was carried out by a far-right extremist, only two comments were made which intimated this may have been an Islamic attack, comments which could in no way be interpretative as angry rants, just assumptions, later proven incorrect, but not exactly outlandish.

Lonesomerhodes

bfa1509 wrote: »

I was watching a debate on this attack on France24 last night. The amount of times they said "he clearly had right wing ideologies" was ridiculous! A complete echo chamber of views from bottom feeding journalists looking to politicize the issue, divide everyone and get as much media mileage out of it as they could.

Well the media run like mad with this as it's not 'politically correct' to be Nationalist or patriotic anymore.

Maybe he was far right or whatever more details to emerge.

What is interesting is the language used against ANYONE who has believes in patriotic beliefs ie

right wing extremist
white supremacist
racist
Nazi


etc etc.

This buzzword media is interesting as it fails to delve into subjects. Also how come you never hear a left wing extremist?. Plenty of them!.
See how the media is very deliberately against any patriotic or right wing beliefs?. It's immediately demonised unlike the left.

To be honest it's for tremendously dumb people to be honest.

Why did he do it?.

"Oh he's a Nazi"

That's as far as the media go.

No research into his mental state, his psychosis, his mind nothing.

Just he's a Nazi that's it kids!.

That's everything explained so!. :rolleyes:

alastair

‘Patriot’ my arse.

Funny how the ‘patriots’ inevitably turn out to be fearful race-obsessed losers.

ohnonotgmail

bfa1509 wrote: »

What "right wing ideologies" did he subscribe to? I didn't realise murder and insanity were right wing ideologies...

Do you expect us to spoonfeed everything to you? His right wing ideologies have been widely publicised in the press.

ohnonotgmail

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Well the media run like mad with this as it's not 'politically correct' to be Nationalist or patriotic anymore.

Maybe he was far right or whatever more details to emerge.

What is interesting is the language used against ANYONE who has believes in patriotic beliefs ie

right wing extremist
white supremacist
racist
Nazi


etc etc.

This buzzword media is interesting as it fails to delve into subjects. Also how come you never hear a left wing extremist?. Plenty of them!.
See how the media is very deliberately against any patriotic or right wing beliefs?. It's immediately demonised unlike the left.

To be honest it's for tremendously dumb people to be honest.

Why did he do it?.

"Oh he's a Nazi"

That's as far as the media go.

No research into his mental state, his psychosis, his mind nothing.

Just he's a Nazi that's it kids!.

That's everything explained so!. :rolleyes:

There is no maybe about it. the details have already emerged.

bfa1509

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Do you expect us to spoonfeed everything to you? His right wing ideologies have been widely publicised in the press.

The problem here is you take everything the press says as the full indisputable story. That's what we were saying above. The media are zoning in on the political angle completely neglecting the mental illness.

Angela Merkel is a right wing politician. Do you think she should be ousted from power for her right wing ideologies?

Nijmegen

You can be mentally ill and a political extremist at the same time. Indeed, I'd say many of the real whackjobs who commit this kind of atrocity of any ideology are.

They are open to being influenced by people full in their faculties who cynically use race baiting and so on to further their own ends. It is a cycle. We are seeing the rise in racially motivated attacks directly in line with the rise of the acceptance of racial and extremist politics and media.

ohnonotgmail

bfa1509 wrote: »

The problem here is you take everything the press says as the full indisputable story. That's what we were saying above. The media are zoning in on the political angle completely neglecting the mental illness.

Angela Merkel is a right wing politician. Do you think she should be ousted from power for her right wing ideologies?

he published a manifesto. how much clearer do you need it to be?

bfa1509

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he published a manifesto. how much clearer do you need it to be?

The manifesto is very clear. My problem is that you equate all of it to right wing politics which is just plain wrong. This has nothing to do with the surge in support for right wing parties across europe.

What you are doing is tantamount to me saying that left wing ideologies equates to support for the same politics as Stalin and Chairman Mao. it's ridiculous!

alastair

bfa1509 wrote: »

The manifesto is very clear. My problem is that you equate all of it to right wing politics which is just plain wrong. This has nothing to do with the surge in support for right wing parties across europe.

What you are doing is tantamount to me saying that left wing ideologies equates to support for the same politics as Stalin and Chairman Mao. it's ridiculous!

If you’re struggling with the whole concept of the political spectrum and extremities, I’m sure there’s resources available online.

bfa1509

alastair wrote: »

If you’re struggling with the whole concept of the political spectrum and extremities, I’m sure there’s resources available online.

A nice witty retort. Why don't you show your knowledge by specifying what was wrong with what I said?

ohnonotgmail

bfa1509 wrote: »

A nice witty retort. Why don't you show your knowledge by specifying what was wrong with what I said?

where to start on that is the problem. His manifesto aligned almost perfectly with the far right that are now active in europe and elsewhere.

Tony EH

Lockstep wrote: »

This thread went exactly as you'd expect:

1) Mass shooting takes place
2) Angry posters rant about Islam
3) It turns out that the shooter was far right.
4) The same posters then derail the thread into one on the left and Islam.

It's almost impressive in their ability to deflect and change the goalposts. It's like in the US where attacks by foreigners mean a flood of "CLOSE OUR BORDERS" "TRUMP WAS RIGHT" whereas if its a domestic(especially white/far right) terrorist or mass shooter then any questions about American gun culture leads to accusations of politicising the tragedy.

For a lot of people, the only thing they're interested in is protecting their own shitty politics.

Absolutely nothing else matters to them.

Hector Savage

BBC Headlines


"SECURITY AGAINST FAR RIGHT INCREASE IN GERMANY" ...

Well done.

I am just confused why when there is an Islamic attack they don't do :


"SECURITY AGAINST ISLAMIC EXTREMISM INCREASE IN GERMANY" ... even though there has been a huge increase in all of Europe of armed cops due to Islamic attacks.

Be consistent.

alastair

Hector Savage wrote: »

BBC Headlines


"SECURITY AGAINST FAR RIGHT INCREASE IN GERMANY" ...

Well done.

I am just confused why when there is an Islamic attack they don't do :


"SECURITY AGAINST ISLAMIC EXTREMISM INCREASE IN GERMANY" ... even though there has been a huge increase in all of Europe of armed cops due to Islamic attacks.

Be consistent.

Probably something to do with this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/terror-attack-plots-uk-far-right-wing-extremism-threat-met-police-neil-basu-a9112046.html

Hector Savage

alastair wrote: »

Probably something to do with this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/terror-attack-plots-uk-far-right-wing-extremism-threat-met-police-neil-basu-a9112046.html

total nonsense, the Saudi backed independent says far right terror is biggest threat ... yeah sure...

If you wanna start totting up numbers, think you'll find attacks from "far right" are a lot lot less than Islamic.

munchkin_utd

Hector Savage wrote: »

total nonsense, the Saudi backed independent says far right terror is biggest threat ... yeah sure...

If you wanna start totting up numbers, think you'll find attacks from "far right" are a lot lot less than Islamic.

really ? Have you the figures then ?
And for Germany, seeing as this attack was in Germany, not the middle east or beyond.

ohnonotgmail

Hector Savage wrote: »

total nonsense, the Saudi backed independent says far right terror is biggest threat ... yeah sure...

If you wanna start totting up numbers, think you'll find attacks from "far right" are a lot lot less than Islamic.

you should really make an effort to read an article before commenting on it. and the article has direct quotes from the police officer concerned so any bias you think the paper may have is irrelevant.

alastair

Hector Savage wrote: »

total nonsense, the Saudi backed independent says far right terror is biggest threat ... yeah sure...

If you wanna start totting up numbers, think you'll find attacks from "far right" are a lot lot less than Islamic.

Note that the newspaper isn’t saying anything. They’re reporting the police position. And yes - there are more Islamist attacks - the article makes that clear - but they’re not on the same increase as far right attacks are.

Englo

It's also worth mentioning that Hanau is 20km away from the town that made headlines by having a Nazi mayor installed just last year.

Titclamp

A 100 bombings in Sweden last year.

Compared to none before.