Rape Victim Abused and Threatened in Court

CrankyHaus

Stepping Stone wrote: »

It seems that it’s being taken seriously enough. https://www.thejournal.ie/threats-to-kill-rape-trial-5014683-Feb2020/

Though only after the issue was raised in the Irish Times and by the Executive Director of a national organisation.


Anyone else on the receiving end of similar behaviour not lucky enough to get the same coverage would presumably have to put up with the original Garda position on this:


“No formal complaints have been made by any parties at this time. The victim in the case continues to receive the full support of the Garda.”

anewme

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Though only after the issue was raised in the Irish Times and by the Executive Director of a national organisation.


Anyone else on the receiving end of similar behaviour not lucky enough to get the same coverage will presumably have to put up with the original Garda position on this:


“No formal complaints have been made by any parties at this time. The victim in the case continues to receive the full support of the Garda.”

So clearly not being seen as a mountain out of a molehill then?

We need to continue to speak out strongly and condemn behaviours like this when we see them, men or women.

If that sees me being labelled as awkward or a feminist, so be it.

mlem123

ELM327 wrote: »

Was anyone present in the court? If so, was there the possibility that the conviction was unwarranted? Innocent men get convicted.

For the first part of this - they hardly had the victim and the defendants family alone together? Especially if the family was hostile..

Women don't report rape for a myriad of reasons, one is that they don't think they'll be believed. Glad to see even when the accused are found guilty that they are still not believed.

And if others posting here can't see that in a courtroom, after someone has been found guilty, that if one of their family members shouts "you'll pay for this" to the victim that that isn't a threat, I worry what you think is acceptable behaviour. Context does matter.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

So clearly not being seen as a mountain out of a molehill then?

We need to continue to speak out strongly and condemn behaviours like this when we see them, men or women.

If that sees me being labelled as awkward or a feminist, so be it.

Who’s we? I don’t feel a need to speak out about it in an attempt to undermine the work of the Gardaí and the judicial system in order to push a political agenda. I’ll simply regard the behaviour of that person as an idiot.

jim o doom

https://www.thejournal.ie/threats-to-kill-rape-trial-5014683-Feb2020/

The gardai have arrested a 20 year old woman who made a threat to kill or harm, so this is being treated very seriously, and rightfully so.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

What legal consequences? The court was not in session. They waited until the legal proceeding were finished.

Threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in a public place
It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour in a public place with the intention of breaching the peace. For example, if your words or actions are likely to cause a fight with the person you are insulting, or a group of youths is looking for trouble because of their threatening behaviour towards other people. If you are found guilty of this offence you can be liable to class D fine and to a prison sentence of up to 3 months.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

anewme

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Who’s we? I don’t feel a need to speak out about it in an attempt to undermine the work of the Gardaí and the judicial system in order to push a political agenda. I’ll simply regard the behaviour of that person as an idiot.

The public.

That's we. I emailed my TD's on it this morning.

If the Gardai acted as a direct result of a complaint or the publicity brought about from the person you accused of making a mountain out of a molehill, then thats a good result.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

Even asking that question shows you have an Agenda, or feel I do.

I don't.

Yup. I previously felt that you did, so I queried it. You answered my question. Then I didn't feel you had an agenda... and so.. I didn't post about it again. Not sure why this is becoming so complicated. Seems pretty simple to me.

CrankyHaus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Though only after the issue was raised in the Irish Times and by the Executive Director of a national organisation.


Anyone else on the receiving end of similar behaviour not lucky enough to get the same coverage would presumably have to put up with the original Garda position on this:


“No formal complaints have been made by any parties at this time. The victim in the case continues to receive the full support of the Garda.”

Or the recipient simply makes a formal complaint to the Gardai seeking an investigation...

Ever think that the Gardai were suggesting that they make a formal request, so that they could do something... something in the lines of "hint hint".

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yup. I previously felt that you did, so I queried it. You answered my question. Then I didn't feel you had an agenda... and so.. I didn't post about it again. Not sure why this is becoming so complicated. Seems pretty simple to me.

i thought the original question was more along the meanings of "if an accused rapist was found not guilty, would such a threat from the gallery towards him have made a story?" but im open to being mistaken

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

Thanks.

although:

"It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour in a public place with the intention of breaching the peace." Still comes down to perception and proving such an intention was present. As I said previously, there was no mention in the article of any gestures or actions in addition to the language used to show intent to do actual harm.

If the Gardai can prove such (now that a formal complaint was made), then excellent.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

i thought the original question was more along the meanings of "if an accused rapist was found not guilty, would such a threat from the gallery towards him have made a story?" but im open to being mistaken

Nope. I was wondering whether the threat would have be taken seriously... as posters here have been doing.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

The public.

That's we. I emailed my TD's on it this morning.

If the Gardai acted as a direct result of a complaint or the publicity brought about from the person you accused of making a mountain out of a molehill, then thats a good result.

Yeah fair enough, I was never a fan of social media mob justice myself but I’m not going to make a mountain out of a molehill myself either :pac:

jim o doom

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yeah fair enough, I was never a fan of social media mob justice myself but I’m not going to make a mountain out of a molehill myself either :pac:

The gardai have already charged a woman who made a threat in the court to this victim, so it's enough of a mountain for the gardai to get involved.

One eyed Jack

jim o doom wrote: »

The gardai have already charged a woman who made a threat in the court to this victim, so it's enough of a mountain for the gardai to get involved.

I take some comfort from the fact that at least the public won’t be exposed to a repeat performance from Ruth Coppinger swinging her knickers about in the Dail when she doesn’t agree with the verdict of the Courts. I wouldn’t demand that she be arrested for contempt of court though.

Again I’d rather it was left up to Gardaí to decide on the best course of action in any case rather than the case being publicised by high profile people to promote their own agenda while giving no thought whatsoever to the consequences for the people whom they claim to be advocating for.

anewme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're welcome to check my threads/posting history. but you'll rarely, if ever, see me use the "reverse the genders" line. I am active on male rights and feminism related threads, just as others are like yourself, and anewme.

And I will always check if I feel there is an agenda being driven. Just as many others on boards will. We do live in a society which has a lot of agendas running with regards to gender. I felt it worth checking in this instance because of the phrasing of her original post. Do notice that I wasn't aggressively querying her post. I asked a question, she answered, and it was left at that.

Klaz, what phrasing exactly in the opening post could you actually take as a possible gender Agenda? I honestly cant see anything that could possibly come across that way.

I posted a newspaper article word for word about a rape victim who was abused and threatened this week.

Above it I posted my own words "terrible that this was allowed to happen."

Raconteuse

anewme wrote: »

Klaz, what phrasing exactly in the opening post could you actually take as a possible gender Agenda?

Yeah you literally posted about a thing that happened.

v638sg7k1a92bx

SusieBlue wrote: »

Please quote where I said they broke a law, I said they had no respect for the law and showed a blatant disregard for the court. That shows me what kind of people they are, that they think that's an acceptable way to conduct themselves.

So you want people who haven’t broken the law to be arrested???

anewme

anewme wrote: »

Klaz, what phrasing exactly in the opening post could you actually take as a possible gender Agenda? I honestly cant see anything that could possibly come across that way.

I posted a newspaper article word for word about a rape victim who was abused and threatened this week.

Above it I posted my own words "terrible that this was allowed to happen."

You posted part of an article, and left out the part where the Gardai said no formal complaint had been made. In any case, I replied to your second post, and as per my post, I asked what I was looking to find out. You answered.

I really don't see why you, and others are trying to make this more than it is. I asked a question for clarification, which you answered, and I left it alone after that... until others and yourself later started to ask about it again. My post was obvious. That's it. No grand conspiracy.

Oranage2

I'd love to see some awareness about this, have an ad, show a drunk girl passes out, then have a guy trying to have sex with her and then big bold letters saying this is rape.

Men and women should have it made clear that having sex with a drunk person could result in a rape charge, no gray area.

SusieBlue

Ellianna Miniature Buttermilk wrote: »

So you want people who haven’t broken the law to be arrested???

The guards are currently investigating the incident so whether they broke a law or not is yet to be determined.

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'd love to see some awareness about this, have an ad, show a drunk girl passes out, then have a guy trying to have sex with her and then big bold letters saying this is rape.

Men and women should have it made clear that having sex with a drunk person could result in a rape charge, no gray area.

You make it sound like this is something new. It's not. Twenty years ago, we knew having sex with a passed out drunk girl/woman was rape. It's not a gray area. If someone is unconscious, then consent can't be given. So, it's obviously rape. Some people are just scum... simple as that.

Quantum Erasure

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'd love to see some awareness about this, have an ad, show a drunk girl passes out, then have a guy trying to have sex with her and then big bold letters saying this is rape.

it doesn't say she was passed out / unconscious though.

"a woman who had blacked out at a house party in 2017"

Men and women should have it made clear that having sex with a drunk person could result in a rape charge, no gray area.

you're not wrong there

Quantum Erasure

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

it doesn't say she was passed out / unconscious though.

"a woman who had blacked out at a house party in 2017"

A black out is usually considered to mean unconsciousness with short term memory loss after waking up.

Raconteuse

Ellianna Miniature Buttermilk wrote: »

So you want people who haven’t broken the law to be arrested???

Ah, a "so you" post - the Cathy Newman tactic.

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A black out is usually considered to mean unconsciousness with short term memory loss after waking up.

I would take "black out drunk" to mean extremely drunk to the point you wont remember. "Passed out" is unconscious.

Quantum Erasure

Deleted User wrote: »

A black out is usually considered to mean unconsciousness with short term memory loss after waking up.

https://www.healthline.com/health/what-causes-blackouts#what-happens-to-your-body

The hippocampus is found deep within the brain. It’s critical to forming memories. The hippocampus can’t develop long-term alcohol toleration. This means it can’t create memories when a blackout occurs.

During a blackout, an intoxicated person can still function as normal. They may seem articulate because most parts of the brain are alcohol-tolerant. They can still eat, walk, hold conversations, have sex, drive, and get into fights. They just can't record any of the memories.

anewme

The two men were convicted of rape by a jury of their peers. The victim was then subjected to further abuse and threats in the Court that should uphold justice.

Comments here about what constitutes a black out are not relevant. The jury would have considered this as part of their deliberations.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

The two men were convicted of rape by a jury of their peers. The victim was then subjected to further abuse and threats in the Court that should uphold justice.

Comments here about what constitutes a black out are not relevant. The jury would have considered this as part of their deliberations.

The public gets to decide what is or isn’t relevant when a case is publicised, and the more publicity is drawn to a case, the more people are interested in tracking down the perpetrator on social media and calling for retribution, instead of y’know, simply allowing the Gardaí who have all the facts of the case to make that determination.

v638sg7k1a92bx

SusieBlue wrote: »

The guards are currently investigating the incident so whether they broke a law or not is yet to be determined.

But that’s not what you were calling for. You were aghast at how this was allowed to happen and how the Gardai didn’t do anything.