Rape Victim Abused and Threatened in Court

One eyed Jack

In case anyone is in any doubt about the effects of publicising cases on social media and the potential consequences for other people of some numbnuts taking the law into their own hands -


Man accused of publicly identifying Belfast rape trial complainant

”In taking these decisions, senior prosecutors considered evidence received from police in relation to social media posts which were alleged to have potentially identified a complainant involved in trial proceedings which ran at Belfast Crown Court from January to March 2018.”

The accused is to be charged under Section Five of the UK’s Sexual Offences Amendment Act 1992 which carries a maximum £5,000 (€5,619) fine.

The PPS declined to name the accused. “Criminal proceedings have now commenced and this person has a right to a fair trial. It is important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information online which could in any way prejudice these proceedings,” the spokeswoman said.

ILoveYourVibes

eagle eye wrote: »

You need to put yourself in the shoes of friends and family of the convicted man. It's not surprising that they would believe him if he said he didn't commit the crime. The whole process is quite an ordeal for relatives and friends of an accused person.
If/when he gets found guilty and then sentenced it's a tough time for them and if they believe him they think she is lying and it's often the case that their frustration with the whole process leads to them castigating the victim.
If you can't understand that then your opinion is worthless.
You gotta be able to see both sides to form a sensible opinion.

You would think the court system would be able to mediate between justice and protecting people by keeping both sides separate though. The family in a separate room viewing by skype?

Quantum Erasure

"Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done."

I suppose we haven't caught up to the audiovisual multimedia age

ILoveYourVibes

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

"Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done."

I suppose we haven't caught up to the audiovisual multimedia age

He was already convicted. All efforts then should be to protect the victim.

Graces7

eagle eye wrote: »

You need to put yourself in the shoes of friends and family of the convicted man. It's not surprising that they would believe him if he said he didn't commit the crime. The whole process is quite an ordeal for relatives and friends of an accused person.
If/when he gets found guilty and then sentenced it's a tough time for them and if they believe him they think she is lying and it's often the case that their frustration with the whole process leads to them castigating the victim.
If you can't understand that then your opinion is worthless.
You gotta be able to see both sides to form a sensible opinion.

There is a time and a place for that. A courtroom is not that place.

Faugheen

eagle eye wrote: »

You need to put yourself in the shoes of friends and family of the convicted man. It's not surprising that they would believe him if he said he didn't commit the crime. The whole process is quite an ordeal for relatives and friends of an accused person.
If/when he gets found guilty and then sentenced it's a tough time for them and if they believe him they think she is lying and it's often the case that their frustration with the whole process leads to them castigating the victim.
If you can't understand that then your opinion is worthless.
You gotta be able to see both sides to form a sensible opinion.

You need to put yourself in the shoes of the victim.

If you can’t understand then your opinion is worthless.

These people are scumbags, and it’s clear they keep the company of scumbags too.

There is no excuse to behave like that and threaten that a victim of rape will ‘pay’ for reporting her case and her rapists being found guilty.

****ing hell, the lengths people will go to defend the indefensible.

Ash.J.Williams

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Respectfully, I disagree. That’s exactly what it’s doing. I’m not justifying their behaviour, nor do I believe it’s an acceptable way to behave in a Court of Law, but calling for people to be arrested for their behaviour in those circumstances is ridiculously overdramatic and would simply be a waste of time and resources.

You’re wrong, it was a long 2 yr case and what happened in court was an extension of threatening behaviour aimed at intimidating the victim to quit.

One eyed Jack

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

You’re wrong, it was a long 2 yr case and what happened in court was an extension of threatening behaviour aimed at intimidating the victim to quit.

If you’re telling me I’m wrong, I’d have expected you to point to where I’m wrong. Instead I get that? I dunno what the point of it was tbh. I think everyone is aware that rape cases can take years to come before the courts and in the meantime the victim has to live in the community before and after any trial.

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

You’re wrong, it was a long 2 yr case and what happened in court was an extension of threatening behaviour aimed at intimidating the victim to quit.

Except that the Judge had ruled and sentencing had been given. So, not the case of intimidating the victim to quit.

Can I get the link to your source? Curious to read further about the case.

splinter65

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You would think the court system would be able to mediate between justice and protecting people by keeping both sides separate though. The family in a separate room viewing by skype?

Is it really too much to expect adults not to behave like savages especially in the controlled atmosphere of a courtroom? The accused has the right to feel supported by his loved ones, the loved ones have the right to be present during the proceedings, but they also have the obligation to behave properly and respectfully whatever the outcome. So should the family of the alleged victim also have to be in a separate room viewing by Skype?

One eyed Jack

splinter65 wrote: »

Is it really too much to expect adults not to behave like savages especially in the controlled atmosphere of a courtroom? The accused has the right to feel supported by his loved ones, the loved ones have the right to be present during the proceedings, but they also have the obligation to behave properly and respectfully whatever the outcome. So should the family of the alleged victim also have to be in a separate room viewing by Skype?

I’m not sure if the question is facetious or not, but all of those things will depend on the circumstances in each individual case. For example the Gardaí will in any case carry out an assessment of the alleged victim(s) and their needs and appropriate protections if deemed necessary -


Assessment of victim


But there are always circumstances they may not have accounted for -


People queued to shake this sex attacker’s hand

I was right to shake the hand of jailed sex fiend, says priest

Listowel attack victim speaks out

eagle eye

Faugheen wrote:

You need to put yourself in the shoes of the victim.

Well it's very hard to completely put yourself there.
However we do need to protect them as much as we can.
You do know they don't behave to be there after they've given evidence?

anewme

eagle eye wrote: »

You do know they don't behave to be there after they've given evidence?

What does this mean? There were no allegations about the behaviour of the victim.

biko

Some people have the victim's interests at heart.
Some people have the perpetrators' interests at heart.

Graces7

biko wrote: »

Some people have the victim's interests at heart.
Some people have the perpetrators' interests at heart.

And all should observe basic rules of decent behaviour. The court has decided.

biko

biko wrote: »

Some people have the victim's interests at heart.
Some people have the perpetrators' interests at heart.

And some people just want to be reasonable.

anewme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And some people just want to be reasonable.

And not make mountains out of molehills.
Or perhaps,
Not make molehills out of mountains.

eagle eye

anewme wrote:

What does this mean? There were no allegations about the behaviour of the victim.

Sorry, auto-correct turned have into behave.
They don't have to be there after they've given evidence. It's completely up to them if they want to stay in court.

anewme

eagle eye wrote: »

Sorry, auto-correct turned have into behave.
They don't have to be there after they've given evidence. It's completely up to them if they want to stay in court.

Ah I get it now.

But do you not think a victim has the right to see the outcome of what has more than likely been the most life changing thing that has never happened to them.

Personally and psychologically, being there at the verdict could be a huge part of the healing process. Proof the the victim was believed.

Saying they should forego this, for fear of someone making threats and shouting obscene language, is very wrong.

eagle eye

anewme wrote:

Saying they should forego this, for fear of someone making threats and shouting obscene language, is very wrong.

O didn't didn't say they shouldn't be there. I simply pointed out they don't have to be. They'd be advised of this and advised of the potential for abuse by the Gardai.

anewme

eagle eye wrote: »

O didn't didn't say they shouldn't be there. I simply pointed out they don't have to be. They'd be advised of this and advised of the potential for abuse by the Gardai.

They shouldn't be abused or threatened is my answer.

The Gardai should take the necessary steps to deal with people not respecting The Court.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

They shouldn't be abused or threatened is my answer.

The Gardai should take the necessary steps to deal with people not respecting The Court.

They already do.

eagle eye

anewme wrote:

The Gardai should take the necessary steps to deal with people not respecting The Court.

Once the judge leaves the court is over. It's when people get up to leave that this type of things happen.
Maybe the judge should have the victim leave before he/she rises. That might solve the issue

anewme

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They already do.

In your eyes maybe. You would appear to be in the minority.

This incident and it's widespread coverage and condemnation show there are improvements required.

No one should be forced to endure threats and obscenities hurled at them in a Court of Law with Gardai present. The Gardai should act swiftly and harshly against such conduct with these people immediately removed from The Court.

anewme

eagle eye wrote: »

Once the judge leaves the court is over. It's when people get up to leave that this type of things happen.
Maybe the judge should have the victim leave before he/she rises. That might solve the issue

You are asking the victim to change their behaviour, not those supporting the convicted.

"If the victim was not there, they could not threaten her." That's victim blaming.

eagle eye

anewme wrote:

You are asking the victim to change their behaviour, not those supporting the convicted.

It's a lot easier to have one person leave the court than a bunch.
Also the victim can leave and leave the building. With a group of friends and family of the accused who probably will be going their separate ways once they leave they may hang around chatting for a short while and be there when the victim comes out of court.
We are looking at protecting the victim here.

anewme

eagle eye wrote: »

It's a lot easier to have one person leave the court than a bunch.
Also the victim can leave and leave the building. With a group of friends and family of the accused who probably will be going their separate ways once they leave they may hang around chatting for a short while and be there when the victim comes out of court.
We are looking at protecting the victim here.

We are looking for those breaking the law to be prosecuted.

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

In your eyes maybe. You would appear to be in the minority.

This incident and it's widespread coverage and condemnation show there are improvements required.

No one should be forced to endure threats and obscenities hurled at them in a Court of Law with Gardai present. The Gardai should act swiftly and harshly against such conduct with these people immediately removed from The Court.

How am I in the minority when in reality you were surprised there wasn’t already a thread about it? “Widespread coverage and condemnation” is a stretch, in spite of the efforts of a minority of people to whip up some outrage on social media. In reality most people don’t give a fiddlers.

Gardaí aren’t anyone’s personal security guards subject to yours or anyone else’s whims and in spite of yours or anyone else’s grandstanding, it’s the Gardaí who will decide on any course of action in any given circumstances. Unless you’re planning on attending every sitting of the courts (those open to the public at least), you nor anyone else isn’t in any position to make demands on how the Gardaí handle each case.

eagle eye

anewme wrote:

We are looking for those breaking the law to be prosecuted.

Telling somebody what you think of them is not breaking the law. Saying that you'll pay for what you did is not breaking the law.

anewme

One eyed Jack wrote: »

How am I in the minority when in reality you were surprised there wasn’t already a thread about it? “Widespread coverage and condemnation” is a stretch, in spite of the efforts of a minority of people to whip up some outrage on social media. In reality most people don’t give a fiddlers.

Gardaí aren’t anyone’s personal security guards subject to yours or anyone else’s whims and in spite of yours or anyone else’s grandstanding, it’s the Gardaí who will decide on any course of action in any given circumstances. Unless you’re planning on attending every sitting of the courts (those open to the public at least), you nor anyone else isn’t in any position to make demands on how the Gardaí handle each case.

The news had had just come through when I started the thread and was filtering out. There was also a segment on Joe Duffy on it the next day which brought widespread condemnation. Following reporting, the Gardai acted on what happened.

I expect the Gardai to act as Custodians of the Peace. It is in their job description to act when a crime or potential crime is committed. That's not anyones whim. That's their job.

I'm not going to get into back and forth with you or essays or what widespread coverage is. It's clear that the majority of people found this conduct abhorrent and the responses here would indicate that.