Travellers close down motorway to race horses

nc6000

Yurt! wrote: »

Poor animals must be terrified.

I don't think the horses enjoy it either.

Assetbacked

Imagine that a business could be sued for discrimination for not hiring a traveller or refusing them entry to the premise. That is astounding.

Aglomerado

A pair of them racing on a back road north of Cork City yesterday too. I've often seen just one around there but that was the first time I'd seen two.

s7ryf3925pivug

There are animal shelters for mistreated horses. You don't need to euthanize them just because their owners break the law. They rehabilitate some in horrific condition - rotten wounds and inability to stand.

People drone in about the left being at fault for tolerating such things. This is nonsense, only complete wackos think stuff like this should be tolerated. The real problem is the lack of resources made available to do anything about it. That is due to right wing policies with stingy investment in public services including policing.

pure.conya

normanoffside wrote: »

In before someone asks why the OP assumes they are travellers.

ya maybe a handful of CEOs from the IFSC decided to take their horse and trap out for a run, with their assistants traveling behind so as to close the road for the race

Galwayguy35

Diceicle wrote: »

There's only someting like 30,000 of them in Ireland. Imagine the state of the place if there was a 100,000.

30,000 my eye I'd say we nearly have that amount in Galway alone.

Has to be way higher than that but no way of knowing because they never fill out the census.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/ispca-shocked-and-appalled-after-video-emerges-of-high-speed-sulky-race-on-n7-motorway-5014570-Feb2020/

Gas. The Journal put an article up on it but no comments allowed. Every other topic in the world you can comment on but not The Ones Who May Not Be Criticised.

When the journal close a comment section you know well a minority is to blame for the crime

Mad_maxx

mloc123 wrote: »

Knackers gonna knack..

Are they knacks?

The Irish Times article makes no reference.

Funny that.

dd973

I say good luck to 'em, most Irish people are two or three generations removed from peasantry yet like to believe that they're 'up there' with Euro cosmopolitans like the Swiss or the Danes, that they've never been poor in their history or had to take the mail boat to stand hungover on Cricklewood Broadway at 6am with Paddy, Joe and Mick working on the lump.

The tinkers are a nasty little reminder that your're not all that grand underneath all the pretentiousness.

Thelonious Monk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Are they knacks?

The Irish Times article makes no reference.

Funny that.

There is no possible way on god's green earth they are anything but travellers, but I mean surely you know this already

Ave Sodalis

dd973 wrote:

I say good luck to 'em, most Irish people are two or three generations removed from peasantry yet like to believe that they're 'up there' with Euro cosmopolitans like the Swiss or the Danes, that they've never been poor in their history or had to take the mail boat to stand hungover on Cricklewood Broadway at 6am with Paddy, Joe and Mick working on the lump.

And yet my ancestors managed to use their animals with respect.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Are they knacks?

The Irish Times article makes no reference.

Funny that.

They wouldn't dream of making any allusions in case Pavee Point kick up a fuss about "racial profiling". Pathetic cowardice from the Irish Times and Journal.ie, PP have them by the shorties.

whisky_galore

dd973 wrote: »

I say good luck to 'em, most Irish people are two or three generations removed from peasantry yet like to believe that they're 'up there' with Euro cosmopolitans like the Swiss or the Danes, that they've never been poor in their history or had to take the mail boat to stand hungover on Cricklewood Broadway at 6am with Paddy, Joe and Mick working on the lump.

The tinkers are a nasty little reminder that your're not all that grand underneath all the pretentiousness.

Even Swiss and Danes lived in poverty once. Go back 100 years and Germans, Norwegians and Swedes were travelling in 3rd class to get to the US. It wasnt ALL Irish, like Irish Central would like us to think.

I don't know about you, but most of us have moved on from clattering each other to sort a dispute and living in our own shyte.

eeepaulo

dd973 wrote: »

I say good luck to 'em, most Irish people are two or three generations removed from peasantry yet like to believe that they're 'up there' with Euro cosmopolitans like the Swiss or the Danes, that they've never been poor in their history or had to take the mail boat to stand hungover on Cricklewood Broadway at 6am with Paddy, Joe and Mick working on the lump.

The tinkers are a nasty little reminder that your're not all that grand underneath all the pretentiousness.

Ha, working.

mlem123

Pavee's Statement:

The horse racing incident on the N7 motorway, as shown in a video today (20/2/2020), is completely unacceptable and endangers other road users and indeed animals and participants themselves.
This misuse of a public road is shocking and Pavee Point calls on anybody contemplating similar activities to stop and consider the safety of other road users.
Sulkie Racing, which is a longstanding tradition within and outside the Traveller Community, should not be confused with the actions of the participants in this incident.
Sulkie Racing can be carried out in a way which is safe and well regulated as international best practice in other countries demonstrates – where there is a process and space for it to take place. Examples of good practice also exist around Ireland.
Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

Thelonious Monk

whisky_galore wrote: »

Even Swiss and Danes lived in poverty once. Go back 100 years and Germans, Norwegians and Swedes were travelling in 3rd class to get to the US. It wasnt ALL Irish, like Irish Central would like us to think.

I don't know about you, but most of us have moved on from clattering each other to sort a dispute and living in our own shyte.

Ha, yeah like the whole Irish built New York thing. It was mostly Germans.

Antares35

Can't say anything - that would be racist :rolleyes: God forbid they be expected to abide by the same laws as settled folk.

Raconteuse

dd973 wrote: »

I say good luck to 'em, most Irish people are two or three generations removed from peasantry yet like to believe that they're 'up there' with Euro cosmopolitans like the Swiss or the Danes, that they've never been poor in their history or had to take the mail boat to stand hungover on Cricklewood Broadway at 6am with Paddy, Joe and Mick working on the lump.

The tinkers are a nasty little reminder that your're not all that grand underneath all the pretentiousness.

Whole other level of crazy.

This assessment you have of Irish people (one of whom you are, despite the "your're") is all in your head. Who denies they're only a small number of generations from poverty? Who thinks they're grand and "up there" with whomever and is pretentious? Thought Irish people "begrudged" all that - which is it?

What's poverty got to do with it anyway? There are people who aren't travellers that are struggling to make ends meet.

Incoherent babble.

What do you say good luck to them regarding, btw?

Would it be... the widespread animal cruelty? The widespread unsanitary conditions? The lack of sex education/contraception use? How about the high levels of domestic violence? The child marriages? The high level of criminality? The elderly living in fear in rural areas?

Good luck in which of those?

Because of some weird resentment you have towards fellow Irish people for simply moving beyond living in thatched cottages that you say "good luck" regarding the above issues... wow how bitter.

whippet

mlem123 wrote: »

Pavee's Statement:

so in summary - it's bad .. but its our culture and it's up to others to accommodate us doing this

"Examples of good practice also exist around Ireland."

Pavee Point having a laugh at our expense. Respect is a two-way street.

Raconteuse

The horse racing incident on the N7 motorway, as shown in a video today (20/2/2020), is completely unacceptable and endangers other road users and indeed animals and participants themselves.
This misuse of a public road is shocking and Pavee Point calls on anybody contemplating similar activities to stop and consider the safety of other road users.
Sulkie Racing, which is a longstanding tradition within and outside the Traveller Community, should not be confused with the actions of the participants in this incident.

Fair enough.

Sulkie Racing can be carried out in a way which is safe and well regulated as international best practice in other countries demonstrates – where there is a process and space for it to take place. Examples of good practice also exist around Ireland.
Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

.
And deflection of responsibility. "It's the council's fault."

whisky_galore

My culture is driving a motor vehicle.

Can the council provide a motor racing track for my cultural activity?

Good old Mattie. Telling it like it is. “ A Tipperary TD says abusing horses by racing them with lightweight carts is not part of Traveller culture and should be banned.” http://tippfm.com/news/animal-welfare/mcgrath-claims-sulky-racing-money-making-pursuit/

TheBoyConor

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

It amazes me that in 2020 you don't need a licence to own a horse in Ireland.

Should be a simple process:
To get a Licence, you must own or lease land to keep the animal.
If you don't have the land, you cant have a licence.
If you're caught with a horse without a licence the Horse is Euthanised.
Any horses grazing/left tied up on public land are Euthanised.

They're better off dead than in the hands of these people.

Yeah but realistically what difference would it make? Do you think the travelers are going to comply with the law? Or are they going to face consequences when they don't comply?
Sure how many of them have no driving licence, tax or insurance and get away with it for years or decades? yeah, they might having road traffic convictions for it - but it certainly doesn't stop them driving.
"Me hole" is the answer to any of the above questions.

They won't comply with any such laws if they were introduced. The standard answer when challenged as the ownership of a horse will be "ah sure dat not my hurse atall bass, dat hurse there behlong Big Antney's son Michael below, sir".

What are you supposed to do with that? Prosecute someone over an unlicenced horse, even when there is no proof that they own the horse nor any admission on their part that they own it.
And even if they were prosecuted and convicted? What then? Sure they all have probably 60 previous convictions anyway - what difference is one more going to make. Certainly won't be a deterrred. They don't give a bollox about the law or breaking it. It is a normal part of life for them. No laws, no accountability and no consequences. They are more or less free to do as they please.

Mad_maxx

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Yeah but realistically what difference would it make? Do you think the travelers are going to comply with the law? Or are they going to face consequences when they don't comply?
Sure how many of them have no driving licence, tax or insurance and get away with it for years or decades? yeah, they might having road traffic convictions for it - but it certainly doesn't stop them driving.
"Me hole" is the answer to any of the above questions.

They won't comply with any such laws if they were introduced. The standard answer when challenged as the ownership of a horse will be "ah sure dat not my hurse atall bass, dat hurse there behlong Big Antney's son Michael below, sir".

What are you supposed to do with that? Prosecute someone over an unlicenced horse, even when there is no proof that they own the horse nor any admission on their part that they own it.
And even if they were prosecuted and convicted? What then? Sure they all have probably 60 previous convictions anyway - what difference is one more going to make. Certainly won't be a deterrred. They don't give a bollox about the law or breaking it. It is a normal part of life for them. No laws, no accountability and no consequences. They are more or less free to do as they please.

You can in a small way admire them for doing absolutely exactly as they please

It's the educated **** who defend and celebrate their "culture" who are much worse

I'd use them instead of the poor horse on the motorway, let John Jimmy shout at boucher Hayes as he pulls his chariot

Spanish Eyes

Would those Stinger things that used to stop the joyriding years ago be any use in these situations? You know, burst the tyres on the cars in the convoy.

I suppose that would be going against their civil rights or something. Those poor animals (the four legged variety).

TheBoyConor

Good luck with that. State would be getting sued by everyone in all of the stinger'd cars for injuried and alleged injuries caused by the dangerous act of using a stinger and causing the cars to go out of control. Especially dangerous since there were people hanging out the windows of the cars.
Can't do that kind thing in ireland and it would be a disproportionate amount of force. it might be justifiable if there were hostages being held at gunpoint or something in a vehicle.

Also, stingers would obviously injure the poor animals. (When I say animals I am referring to the horses)

Deebles McBeebles

It would be very easy to take horses from them with a little investment and enforcement. Horses have to be microchipped and have passports, if not the local council/Gardai/dept of agriculture can take them. I've seen dept of agriculture do it.

Then the authorities should look in to the dismantling of the fairs like the one in Galway where travellers trade horses and dogs. That along with a crackdown on sites like donedeal would go a long way.

Guy:Incognito

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Plenty can be done.

This isn’t legal on a motorway.
.

Its not a motorway , it's a dual carriageway.

d15ude

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its not a motorway , it's a dual carriageway.

Oh ****, in that case it's perfectly fine.
Sorry about the thread.

whisky_galore

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its not a motorway , it's a dual carriageway.

Umm is it legal on a dual carriageway?

I somehow doubt that.

Guy:Incognito

d15ude wrote: »

Oh ****, in that case it's perfectly fine.
Sorry about the thread.

No one said it was fine, but from a legal standpoint it may well be different. Theres are a lot more restrictions about who can and cannot be on a motorway. A sulky wouldnt be allowed on a motorway, but theres nothing stopping them being on a dual carriageway I wouldn't think. Racing is a different story but I'd say the rest would all scatter if a load of Gardai showed up and theyd claim to be on a sunday morning recreational ride when all these cars shwoed up hassling them.

Ave Sodalis

Deebles McBeebles wrote:

Then the authorities should look in to the dismantling of the fairs like the one in Galway where travellers trade horses and dogs. That along with a crackdown on sites like donedeal would go a long way.

It's extremely rare that Donedeal gets used for trotters.

Cazale

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Its not a motorway , it's a dual carriageway.

It's a three lane national primary road.

Eric Cartman

Graboid wrote: »

They only misbehave because they're 'poor'. I'm sure if we increase their dole by 500% they'll cop on.

I wish I was poor enough to constantly misbehave in brand new 4x4s and bet thousands in cash on an illegal horse race.

Deebles McBeebles

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It's extremely rare that Donedeal gets used for trotters.

Yep that was more the canine side of things. Not the topic of the thread I know but also an animal frequently used by travellers to make money.

TheBoyConor

So just go out and seize a few hundred horses, just like that?
And what are the Gardai and councils supposed to do with all these horses. Realistically all that can be done is put them down. There are no facilities or resources for storing horses. All that iis seriously expensive business.

And if they were put down then all the supposed owners would be coming forward claiming for compensation.

That's the way this country works.

SEPT 23 1989

Spanish Eyes

Look, those who observe the law, pay their taxes and live decent lives will never be rewarded.

Well why should we. Answer me that.

Pronto63

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good old Mattie. Telling it like it is. “ A Tipperary TD says abusing horses by racing them with lightweight carts is not part of Traveller culture and should be banned.” http://tippfm.com/news/animal-welfare/mcgrath-claims-sulky-racing-money-making-pursuit/

Good to see at least one of our politicians standing up and calling this out for what it is!

smurgen

Absolute disgrace. Impound the horses.fine those involved. check the cars for NCT/TAX/Insurance. Check how the cars were paid for. Have them impounded if this can't be proven.it seems to me that only the working class folk in this country are subject to the laws.

TheRiverman

Where were the Gardai when all this was happening ? I wonder were all those vans and 4x4's taxed,insured and with up to date NCT certs and the horses microchipped,with Registered owners and passports? I think we know the answers.

NewMan1982

To be fair. All their hard earned tax money contributed to that motorway too.

Nijmegen

Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

-About sums it all up, doesn’t it? It’s all down to someone else to solve the problem.

We seriously need an American-style “X number of strikes and you’re out” law. Not 3 maybe but most of the travelling burglars (and in fairness, settled ones too!) you read about in the courts swindling old people and robbing houses and glassing people in the street and so on, have 20-30-40-50-100 plus previous convictions. Pick a point somewhere along that line that’s more than 3 but less than 300 and you’ll soon run out of people to take part in races like this.

Ave Sodalis

Nijmegen wrote: »

Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

There is a resolution. Harness racing is a safe, legal and regulated sport. The issue is with the words "safe", "legal", and "regulated".

Kermit.de.frog

Nijmegen wrote: »

Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

-About sums it all up, doesn’t it? It’s all down to someone else to solve the problem.

We seriously need an American-style “X number of strikes and you’re out” law. Not 3 maybe but most of the travelling burglars (and in fairness, settled ones too!) you read about in the courts swindling old people and robbing houses and glassing people in the street and so on, have 20-30-40-50-100 plus previous convictions. Pick a point somewhere along that line that’s more than 3 but less than 300 and you’ll soon run out of people to take part in races like this.

Reality is we don't have enough prison spaces.

We need a couple of Thornton Halls realistically.

Also the bed and breakfast routine and fully catered for 24/7 in prison should be stopped. Needs to be more Shawshank Redemption in tone and practical reality, otherwise it's just a home from home.

irishproduce

Wonder will RTE follow up on the garda investigation?
They are good to follow up on stuff. For example, number 3 story this evening is that a guy called Roger stone who is a friend of Donald Trump was given a jail sentence today. They were sure to follow up on that. All the way from America. Hopefully they will follow up on this story as vigorously.

Jinglejangle69

Nijmegen wrote: »

Pavee Point calls on local authorities to engage with Traveller organisations, horse owner projects and the Gardaí to explore how to bring about a resolution which allows this long-standing tradition to continue in a manner which is safe, legal and regulated.

-About sums it all up, doesn’t it? It’s all down to someone else to solve the problem.

We seriously need an American-style “X number of strikes and you’re out” law. Not 3 maybe but most of the travelling burglars (and in fairness, settled ones too!) you read about in the courts swindling old people and robbing houses and glassing people in the street and so on, have 20-30-40-50-100 plus previous convictions. Pick a point somewhere along that line that’s more than 3 but less than 300 and you’ll soon run out of people to take part in races like this.

The Irish self entitlement is like no other.

I'm baffled at where it came from.

But it's there through every class.

Gunmonkey

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The Irish self entitlement is like no other.

I'm baffled at where it came from.

But it's there through every class.

Were you expecting anything else from Pavee Point? They are not some kind of representative group, the are a lobbyist group for Travellers. There sole aim is to big up Travellers and deflect every accusation onto someone else.

There go to responses for absolutely everything is that;
-A) its part of some storied culture and a cornerstone of Oirish identity that Travellers are upholding as the Settled "lose their way" and forget they are "only 2 or 3 generatiosn away from peasantry"
-B) only occured because of the lack of funding or exclusions by you's lot.....somehow these scum racing on the N7 is because there was not enough money for something.....so its really all your fault so no point ya getting angry at us!

whisky_galore

TheRiverman wrote: »

Where were the Gardai when all this was happening ? I wonder were all those vans and 4x4's taxed,insured and with up to date NCT certs and the horses microchipped,with Registered owners and passports? I think we know the answers.

Having free coffees no doubt.