How do low wage workers manage to live here?

Yurt2

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

The stats (albeit from 2018) would contradict that.


https://fora.ie/chefs-pay-ireland-3861386-Feb2018/


It's a brutal industry, and it's only those at the top of the heap in high-end restaurants and hotels on that type of coin.

LeinsterDub

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.

Yeah sure they do

Ireland is close to 'full employment', new CSO figures show

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-is-close-to-full-employment-new-cso-figures-show-38183662.html

martingriff

Dude89 wrote: »

So what's in for them if they're living so miserable?

Short term pain to look to the longterm. There is a guy who is a fast food deliver I know who has taken 4 days off in 3 years.

LeinsterDub

nthclare wrote: »

I suppose lucky for me to get inheritance money from a relative, set myself up....


A lot of people can do what I did its a gamble but if you really want it, go for it.

But isn't wrong to murder by granny to get the inheritance? :rolleyes:

SusieBlue

dartboardio wrote: »

Really? Are you even here long?

They're absolutely sorted, with very low council rent, one parent family payments, child benefit, the works!!

Yes a single person with no kids having to pay rent may be struggling.

But if you're on a low income and have children you're sorted. Mad


Please don't pity people on low income, most of them if they have kids are on double their wage, once all the SW payments kick in.

That's not a very accurate representation of your average low paid worker.
The ones who are getting the council houses with low rent, one parent family, full medical cards etc are the ones who aren't even working because it isn't worth their while. They are financially better off not bothering.

The baristas, waitresses, retail workers etc. are absolutely struggling and they are entitled to little to no government help.

_Brian

myshirt wrote: »

You lack ambition. You could easily squeeze another few in there if you stack them head to toe.

Indeed.
I’ve a 5 bedroom rented and only two knocking about in it. I’m seriously missing a trick.

Eric Cartman

_Brian wrote: »

They live in houses where landlords stack 8-10 adults to a room in bunks.

The landlords almost never organise these, most often the landlord believes a couple has rented a 1-2 bed and come back to find their furniture has been sold and replaced by bunk beds, the original tenants nowhere to be seen except coming back to collect rent off 8-10 other people on a friday

DellyBelly

What wage would you consider low? I would think someone in Dublin on 50K would be on low pay. That might not be a bad wage in the country but in the city you would wonder how a person can survive on it. Think the average wage in Dublin is north of 55k imo

Eric Cartman

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

A head chef absolutely, quick order grill chefs and lower down the tier would struggle to make 15 quid an hour

whisky_galore

BattleCorp wrote: »

Ha ha ha.

Chefs are very much in demand and most earn quite a good wage. I know chefs on over €80k.

Yes to first bit, certainly not "most" earning a good wage.

Yurt2

DellyBelly wrote: »

What wage would you consider low? I would think someone in Dublin on 50K would be on low pay. That might not be a bad wage in the country but in the city you would wonder how a person can survive on it. Think the average wage in Dublin is north of 55k imo

The average 'earned income' per person in Dublin city is put at 40k. So we can take the median to be below that.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/article38239841.ece

The article is from midway through last year but from my reading, it appears to be quoting from 2016 stats (?).

The CSO is all over the place with their income reporting. Need to up their game.

GreeBo

Dude89 wrote: »

So what's in for them if they're living so miserable?

Thats not miserable, thats they way most of our parents and most of anyone over 35 lived when they left education.



Also whats in it for them is a chance of a job, a home, a future and not being bombed, shot or tortured in their home country.

GreeBo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yeah sure they do


https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-is-close-to-full-employment-new-cso-figures-show-38183662.html

There are ~670,000 foreign nationals in Ireland.
There are still >105,000 unemployed.

Why are there still >105,000 unemployed?

BattleCorp

GreeBo wrote: »

Why are there still >105,000 unemployed?

Because they are either unemployable or don't want a job.

GreeBo

BattleCorp wrote: »

Because they are either unemployable or don't want a job.

Oh I know that, I'm responding to the poster who thinks there arent Irish people unwilling to work.

smurgen

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

Lol as mobile phones are the new let them eat cake.

jobeenfitz

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

Ur dead right, they exist rather than live. Can't be having fukn fancy phones or sunny holidays!

Beta Ray Bill

BanditLuke wrote: »

Excuse me my family and i live in a council house. We pay a percentage of our combined income on rent. It's most certainly not charity thanks very much.

From the Eoin Murphy thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111925442&postcount=89

There are approx 253,000 council houses/flat in Ireland, with the vast majority in Dublin. They represent approx 15% of all dwellings in Ireland.
Last year local authorities got approx €350M in rent for these, meaning on average people in these units paid approx €115.28 per month
This data is skewed a little however as the total arrears last year countrywide for council housing was €73.6M
To add to this, there are approx 86,000 waiting for social housing.

In addition to this, there are another 60,000 units being rented which is supplemented via HAP. In these circumstances tenants pay approx €50 per week themselves and the rest is paid by the council. Again the vast majority of these are in Dublin.

So to summarise, 18.5% (nearly 1 in 5) of all house holds in the country are paying on average less than €38 a week for rent, with the bulk on tenants living in Dublin.

I have no idea what you're paying per month, but if it's significantly less than €1500 (and you're living in Dublin) then you are in effect, receiving aid.
Note: there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that at an individual level/personal level, and I in no way mean to imply there is.
I'm not trying to belittle or troll you.

I'm just trying to point out the big gap between council and private

BanditLuke

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

From the Eoin Murphy thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111925442&postcount=89



I have no idea what you're paying per month, but if it's significantly less than €1500 (and you're living in Dublin) then you are in effect, receiving aid.
Note: there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that at an individual level/personal level, and I in no way mean to imply there is.
I'm not trying to belittle or troll you.

I'm just trying to point out the big gap between council and private

Of course there is and that's because some landlords and all the investment funds are absolutely coining it. That's not the fault of council tenants like myself or my wife. The market is like it is because that's the way FFG have planned it, that's where people who are paying these outragous rents should be directing their rightful anger towards.

Btw every single citizen of the state recieves aid in some shape or form. Be it if you live in a council house, recieve child support or call an ambulance for someone or yourself, call the Gardai etc... that is state provided aid. That's how a society should work.

Beta Ray Bill

BanditLuke wrote: »

Of course there is and that's because some landlords and all the investment funds are absolutely coining it. That's not the fault of council tenants like myself or my wife. The market is like it is because that's the way FFG have planned it, that's where people who are paying these outragous rents should be directing their rightful anger towards.

The rent is Global thing
Any English speaking, capital city in the world is expensive to live in and the issues we have in Ireland are 30 years in the making.
Private land lords are bailing out of the market at the minute... "Landlord" is a dirty word in Ireland now and no one really wants to be associated with it. (unless they've 3 or more properties and making a killing on it)

BanditLuke wrote: »

Btw every single citizen of the state recieves aid in some shape or form. Be it if you live in a council house, recieve child support or call an ambulance for someone or yourself, call the Gardai etc... that is state provided aid. That's how a society should work.

Agreed, and I also believe that some should absolutely get more than other depending on circumstances.

However I also believe that we should avoid situations where aid/support to one group of people in need of X artificially and significantly inflates the price of X for others.

I'm bidding on houses at the moment, and I've been outbid twice by the council. It's extremely irritating that the council are buying 2nd hand dwellings to give to people in Dublin city, that don't work or work part time, when they could just as easily have given them a house well outside the city in a small town or village.
I get people want their social supports etc, but we're talking about a commodity valued over €370,000 here.

Even more irritating is the council selling off houses at a steal to long term tenants. And then saying they have no stock left

Yurt2

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I have no idea what you're paying per month, but if it's significantly less than €1500 (and you're living in Dublin) then you are in effect, receiving aid.

Says who? Just because Tara and Nigel down the road are paying 2k p/m in a dysfunctional market does not mean because a social housing tenant is 'in-effect' receiving aid.

This speaks to the Irish phenomenon of getting hot under the collar because someone is receiving a perceived benefit and they think that they're somehow losing out because of that person.

It very much sounds like the poster is paying his own way as per the terms set down by the council. Do you expect him to open his wallet and volunteer the difference between his rent and the dysfunctional open market 2k that Tara and Nigel are paying?

Beta Ray Bill

Yurt! wrote: »

It very much sounds like the poster is paying his own way as per the terms set down by the council.

Exactly!
As I said there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of this at an individual/personal level

The problem is the system, not the people using it

Yurt! wrote: »

Do you expect him to open his wallet and volunteer the difference between his rent and the dysfunctional open market 2k that Tara and Nigel are paying?

Course not!
No one would! (Including myself!)

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

You lack ambition. You could easily squeeze another few in there if you stack them head to toe.

And an extra bunk on top. Plenty of room.

LeinsterDub

GreeBo wrote: »

Oh I know that, I'm responding to the poster who thinks there arent Irish people unwilling to work.

I never said that , there are a tiny amount as a percentage of people unwilling to work

kenmm

Aranza Low Billiards wrote: »

1/3 to 1/2 of those on the social housing list in the last 10 years have been from abroad.

Fu(k thats a lot - wheres that from?

BanditLuke

The system is broken because a conscience decision was made by FFG to stop building social houses and let the market do what they want. Of course the market was going to charge whatever they wanted as they have no social remit to house people at an affordable rate and anyone with a brain could have told you that at the time. We as a society are paying for that now and will continue to pay for it for some considerable time. People for some bizarre reason thought FG posh boys like Varadkar and Eoin Murphy where sincere when they said they wanted to fix the situation, they don't.

Beta Ray Bill

BanditLuke wrote: »

The system is broken because a conscience decision was made by FFG to stop building social houses and let the market do what they want. Of course the market was going to charge whatever they wanted as they have no social remit to house people at an affordable rate and anyone with a brain could have told you that at the time. We as a society are paying for that now and will continue to pay for it for some considerable time. People for some bizarre reason thought FG posh boys like Varadkar and Eoin Murphy where sincere when they said they wanted to fix the situation, they don't.

Perhaps they felt it was not broken?

It's not that they stopped building social housing, there has been some built over the last few years, but they (the council) no longer build Social housing estates (which I think is a good thing)

The plan was that 1 in every 10 houses built by a developer on new builds had to be given to the council, but there wasn't enough regulation around the idea and the developers built council estates themselves, in some cases all joining together to fulfill their social housing obligation (Tyrrelstown)

It's clear that the HAP is a stop gap for the issue, they just throw money at the situation hoping it (The demand for social housing) will go away.

PoisonIvyBelle

DellyBelly wrote: »

What wage would you consider low? I would think someone in Dublin on 50K would be on low pay. That might not be a bad wage in the country but in the city you would wonder how a person can survive on it. Think the average wage in Dublin is north of 55k imo

You'd be surprised. I'm single, early 30s, living in Dublin, self employed the past few years and and come out with around a 40k baseline after tax which can be a bit more depending on what extra work I take on. I get a bit done over with tax as I don't have many overheads so there isn't much for me to expense. I have a LOT of ongoing medical expenses (no health insurance and too late to get it now), I pay rent for a nice enough 1 bed flat (albeit a v.reasonable rent and I know I'm lucky on that one), and I live walking distance of the city centre in a nice area. I'm also able to support my family when they need it which is a priority in my case.

Do I have a hope in a cold hell of saving for or getting a mortgage? No. Maybe in 10 years if I'm lucky. Am I concerned about that? Also no: partly because there's not much I can do about it as I'm not interested in living outside of Dublin if I'm to stay in Ireland now, and partly because I've never seen renting as dead money in the way a lot of Irish people do. For me renting gives me the freedom you don't have when you're tied down to a mortgage and I'd happily keep doing it if I had to, although I definitely wish the Irish market was more renter friendly and I'm hoping I can hang on to my current place a few more years. I love Dublin and lived here half my life, but I also love travelling now and then and coming back to Dublin when I choose.

I don't get stressed about the whole housing crisis because I don't see the point. Let's just say I keep stress to a minimum where I can these days. I am v. aware that if I lost this place I'd probably end up having to share a place again which would be ****, and that sense of a lack of stability does get to me, BUT again that's down to changing people's perceptions of renting and making longterm renting a more feasible and "normal" thing in Ireland. IMO people should be able to rent 5-10 year leases unfurnished and make the place their own etc., just like in many other places abroad. I really hate this snobbery Ireland has towards renting.

I'm not at all frugal I just don't go drinking every weekend (maybe once a month if even), I don't spend 100+ a month on new clothes, and I don't have a car to pay for. Things I do spend money on that other people might not spend as much on are therapy, travel, food shopping, and the hairdressers. I'm thinking about getting a car at the end of the year but honestly I don't know if I need it, so if I do I won't be spending more than a few grand on it max.

Truth be told, of course I'd love to be in a position to save properly and still live my life. But I'm not and that's okay, that's how it is. I don't have to live in Dublin, I choose to live here because it's where my life is. I honestly think it's all about priorities and my priority is to live where I've build up a good support network and life for myself.

So is 50k a low wage to live in Dublin? Not if you're me. But if you have different proirities and are v. focused on saving for a mortgage and have other expenses I don't have then yeah it might be. I'm just pointing out there are people like me that live here on what you're considering a low wage and are quite content with what they have from it.

BanditLuke

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Perhaps they felt it was not broken?

It's not that they stopped building social housing, there has been some built over the last few years, but they (the council) no longer build Social housing estates (which I think is a good thing)

The plan was that 1 in every 10 houses built by a developer on new builds had to be given to the council, but there wasn't enough regulation around the idea and the developers built council estates themselves, in some cases all joining together to fulfill their social housing obligation (Tyrrelstown)

It's clear that the HAP is a stop gap for the issue, they just throw money at the situation hoping it (The demand for social housing) will go away.

Okay fair point they didn't completely stop building social housing but they most certainly slowed it down to an absolute crawl. That was a deliberate decision. I absolutely agree in not building large scale (200 houses plus) social estates this has never worked and almost always ends in tears. Our estate works really well and is about 50/50 social and affordable.

Anyway sorry going right off on the thread subject matter.

James Brown

GreeBo wrote: »

They take the jobs that the unemployed Irish are too good to take.
They dont try to live in expensive, highly desirable areas.
They dont have new cars, fancy mobile phones, go on the piss every weekend and take sun holidays.

lazy Irish sponging b******s, coming over here..... :rolleyes:

It's handy to hate your fellow Irishman/woman. You can be called a bigot and ignorant but nobody can call you racist.