Picard 1x05 - "Stardust City Rag" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

velo.2010

AllForIt wrote: »

...Patrick Stewart... looks like he has his lines held in front of him by a best-boy and is just reading them off as if it's the first time he's seen them. As if noting was asked of him to do the show, only turn up.

I got that vibe too. We must remember, though, that Stewart is rapidly approaching his 80th birthday and is visibly and audibly frail. That will have an impact on what he can and can't do on the show... and, in fairness, it has been intimated as much for his character during the episode run so far.

A word on the original actors not returning to their roles. Brian Brophy (Bruce Maddox TNG) hasn't been active as of late according to IMDB. My suspicion is that he was never asked back and they chose an actor with an unremarkable presence to portray Maddox - it's easier to bump him off without offending too many fans.

Icheb is different. Manu Intiraymi is very much active and quite likely was approached about the role. After looking at the script, I can imagine the actor politely turned down the part because of the nature of the scene and it being so short. Why return after 19 years to be bumped off like that?

This weeks episode was better again. No Borg Cube scenes, maybe that's the key!:D Frakes did well with what he was giving, story wise. The middle bit with the high jinx was not Star Trek or any good sci-fi for that matter - it just felt off. What did feel like Star Trek was the final interaction between Picard and Seven. For the briefest moment, I felt like we were back to prime TNG, First Contact - that soul searching in the midst of an epic journey or battle. It was well written and well directed. This must be Jeri Ryan's finest performance. It must also be the most complex a role and longest duration on screen for any part she has previously played, so double kudos for her to be able to nail it, this far along in her career.

It's disappointing to read some reviews elsewhere that focus so much on the gender/patriarchal aspect of the show - that Kurtzman and co are trying to redress the balance like Discovery. Well, this show isn't Discovery... its better. And, TBH, I don't find the show as particularly allegorical for what is going on in the world today. All Star Trek has, to some degree, been a reflection on society - ST Picard does no different. Its OK to have strong female characters and just fine to see them in duplicitous roles. It's refreshing and different to have women playing roles more associated with those familiar stock authority type actors.

I don't see the Jurati-is-a-synth scenario. I could be wrong but she just comes across as an detached scientist who's been easily turned after being presented with something of a 'all synths must perish' last resort scenario.

The Borg cube next week. That's come quicker than expected. I hope they get it right because it will set the tone for the last few episodes. Still waiting for an actual starship to appear!

AllForIt

velo.2010 wrote: »

I got that vibe too. We must remember, though, that Stewart is rapidly approaching his 80th birthday and is visibly and audibly frail. That will have an impact on what he can and can't do on the show... and, in fairness, it has been intimated as much for his character during the episode run so far.

Yes, fair play to him for agreeing to engage. It's shows some respect for sci-fi as a genre from someone who was more originally Shakespearean/theater focused.

The middle bit with the high jinx was not Star Trek or any good sci-fi for that matter - it just felt off.

That kind of thing worked in the holo-decks. I felt the scene was a homage to that.

It's disappointing to read some reviews elsewhere that focus so much on the gender/patriarchal aspect of the show - that Kurtzman and co are trying to redress the balance like Discovery.

I'ts not bugging me too much...yet. That type of thing can be a bit too obvious that it detracts your attention. I never felt it with Voyager, having a strong willed female captain. Or Borg 'Queen'.

I don't see the Jurati-is-a-synth scenario. I could be wrong but she just comes across as an detached scientist who's been easily turned after being presented with something of a 'all synths must perish' last resort scenario.

No I don't see that either. She seems to be involved in making androids so she could hardly have made herself. She wept in a earlier seen unless that's a red herring.

TheValeyard

I really enjoyed it. Thought it had humour and good content. First episode I didn't want Raffi to be airlocked.

Seven really added to it and we got a more full picture of an alpha quadrant in chaos.

It's great to see non fed worlds and open up the Trek universe more.

Dont like the ending, we've been down the bad crew member already with Discovery..no need to do it again.

pixelburp

That villain Bejazzle looked so like Marina Sirtis, I genuinely wondered for a moment if it were her, de-ageing perhaps or what was going on. The spell never quite left either, she really was the spitting image IMO.

AllForIt

pixelburp wrote: »

That villain Bejazzle looked so like Marina Sirtis, I genuinely wondered for a moment if it were her, de-ageing perhaps or what was going on. The spell never quite left either, she really was the spitting image IMO.

Absolutely. I thought there was going to be some twist that it turned out to be Deanna Troi but it soon became apparent it was just a remarkable lookalike. The eyes especially.

McDermotX

Another awful outing.

Some decent bits with Seven (don't have any issue with opening), but even that couldn't save another shambolic episode of forced exposition, clunky writing and some downright terrible acting.

I've no idea why I'd stick this out TBH, only because it's 'Picard' or even, and I say this loosely given what being demonstrated, 'Star Trek'. Any other material and it wouldn't be getting the time of day if I'm honest.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I gave this show a shot but after 5 episodes I cannot watch anymore. The dark, gritty tone is not Star trek for me. I can get dystopian futures full of despair, done better elsewhere. I am off to re-watch the Orville, STP is a load of bollox and is just ruining all that was great about trek. Patrick Stewart has gone down in my estimations, and all I can do not is watch no more to preserve my nostalgia.

bilbot79

IvySlayer wrote: »

Never would I have imagined Picard with an eyepatch doing a french pirate accent

Reminded me of the old days of TNG when an entire episode was devoted to a holodeck programme about 17th century England or something. It was clearly to give the actors something different to do.

Rawr

Alas this episode, although with some solid moments, did feel kind of weak.

Seven developed a bit since Voyager and I liked that, but I feel that there were too many missed opportunities here and I can't help but feel cheated by this episode.

Some stuff that stuck out.

Icheb: I never really liked Icheb...and now I'm feeling guilty about that! Damn that was a harrowing end of a character.

Quark's Bar: Good to know that Quark is still kicking and following the 45th Rule of Acquisition Could have really done with a Holo-ad of his place...

Stuff I didn't really like:

Picard & Seven: Why didn't they explore this more? I had always wondered what kind of interaction they would have between old Locutus and 7 of 9. They bare touched on that. Were ex-Borg *that* common in the Alpha Quadrant back then?

Imperial Entanglements: So going to the Romulan Free State will "cost more". Can we please get an explination of how payment now works in the Federation? What kind of cash does the Federation have or does Picard have some Latinum earnings from his vinyard? We're in the same problem area as DS9 were the Starfleet crew appeared to have cash to spend at Quarks.

Bizzare standoff and Seven's revenge: Seven getting revenge made perfect sense. Seven killing the evil Freecloud lady made sense. But setting herself up to die in the casino (off screen, so not for certain) didn't make sense. She had plenty of a chance to kill her before their escape. Also, I was never a fan of that shot where she brandishing two phaser rifles as if the were smaller hand weapons. They were going for bad-ass action hero moment, but it just looked silly. Could they at least pretend that those props had some weight to them?

Le Picard Diabolique: No doubt Steward had loads of fun with this, but come on. One of the most famous faces in the Galaxy, he had just been on the news telling people that Starfleet suck, and his disguise was just an eye-patch and silly accent? It was fun, but come on. Were the evil Freecloud people really that thick?

Next week look interesting. Are we getting a flashback of Locutus, or are they actually going to assimilate Picard again?

The Megaphone

So eye-patch Picard, a french man, goes undercover as a bad impersonation of a french man when so far all the show has shown us is that pretty much nobody knows who is he in the first place. Why?

Also anyone remember in TNG when going undercover involved use of cosmetics? How about Picard the space Bajoran pirate or Picard the space Trill pirate?

I liked space pimp Rios but Picard just reminded me of a cheap Halloween costume!

Besides this - thought it was a good episode!

Bobtheman

Good to see seven again. Shame no cat suit !
Jeri Ryan aged well.
For 100 marks how did she play a significant part in Obama's ascendency?

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

Last thought was about how Bjayzl (actress Necar Zadegan) was the spit of a younger Deanna Troi

One of the writers for io9

https://twitter.com/Jwhitbrook/status/1230869569591484418

How long does the sick stuff go on and is there any more later in the episode?

silverharp

Overall its better than Discovery but its just boring and getting more un Trek universe like as it goes on. Stewart is just too old, there was one scene where he looked like a bewildered old folks home patient, he was just standing there with his arms ajar at a weird angle that looked a bit tragic. Also thought the too and fro editing was distracting, Ill watch Snatch or Oceans 11 for that thankyou very much. The crew are boring, Rios is ok if a little generic, the rest suck energy out of a scene every time they are on screen. So we have 2 series of Kurtzman Trek and Saru from Discovery or possibly Yeoh's character are the only memorable characters.

ilovesmybrick

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

How long does the sick stuff go on and is there any more later in the episode?

About two minutes at the start and that's it.

ilovesmybrick

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

About two minutes at the start and that's it.

Thanks. I’m intrigued to see the Freecloud and french pirate Picard.

Rawr

Bobtheman wrote: »

Good to see seven again. Shame no cat suit !
Jeri Ryan aged well.
For 100 marks how did she play a significant part in Obama's ascendency?

Oooo oooo! (hand up)
Something to with her husband if I remember right.

Sad Professor

I'm on the verge of giving up on this show. The thing i can't get past is that Picard is almost totally unrecognisable as the Picard from TNG. Not only do the writers not seem to have any grasp of the character, but Stewart seems to have forgotten how to play him.

ilovesmybrick

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Thanks. I’m intrigued to see the Freecloud and french pirate Picard.

If you're watching on Prime skip to around 2:35. You'll miss the gory part, but you'll get thje important information from the scene.

whomitconcerns

In fairness that scene was about as grotesque as I've seen in anything for a while.., but episode was great. Just won't watch the start again

pixelburp

Picards weird accent inception of an ostensible Frenchman doing an Allo Allo voice, has convinced me the Picards are just English blow ins, who got stuck in France post Brexit.

Panda Killa

Goodshape wrote: »

That was pretty great!

Really solid episode. Wish everyone could stay a little longer, though. Seven, Maddox, and Frakes as director!

And pity they couldn't get the same actor for Maddox, too! Maybe that's why he didn't stick around. Who knows. Feels like a wasted namedrop now. Why'd they mention him at all.

Decent little twist with yer one the doctor though. Didn't see that coming.

I actually thought that was quite obviously going to happen....series so far is quite good...I just wish they had done it 10 years earlier...

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

Oooo oooo! (hand up)
Something to with her husband if I remember right.

Going to try this without googling.

Jeri Ryan was married to a republican Chicago assemblyman. While he was running for election (and was supposedly a sure thing) against Obama, who was a newcomer at the time, Ryan and the assemblyman were going through a divorce. Ssome insight into their personal lives, I want to say it was a fetish but I'm not sure, was revealed through the divorce proceedings and tarnished his reputation. Obama won kickstarting his his political career.

Bobtheman

Good to see seven again. Shame no cat suit !
Jeri Ryan aged well.
For 100 marks how did she play a significant part in Obama's ascendency?

Bobtheman

Rawr wrote: »

Oooo oooo! (hand up)
Something to with her husband if I remember right.

Her ex -husband was running against Obama in a Senate race but divorce papers were leaked revealing he had asked her to do some public sex stuff. That finished him. Paving the way for Obama to win the Senate race. Four years later he is president!

AMKC

Bobtheman wrote: »

Her ex -husband was running against Obama in a Senate race but divorce papers were leaked revealing he had asked her to do some public sex stuff. That finished him. Paving the way for Obama to win the Senate race. Four years later he is president!

Its just such a pity that after such a great US President like Obama that the buffoon Trump became president. Such a pity it did not have happened the other way round. Hopefully that fool Trump will not be there for much longer.
Sure Hillery Clinton was not perfect but she would have been better than Trump. I do think do that Obama picked the wrong person to succeed him. Surely his Vice President would have been a better bet.

Stark

AMKC wrote: »

Sure Hillery Clinton was not perfect but she would have been better than Trump. I do think do that Obama picked the wrong person to succeed him. Surely his Vice President would have been a better bet.

That's decided by the primaries, not by Obama surely?

ilovesmybrick

AMKC wrote: »

Its just such a pity that after such a great US President like Obama that the buffoon Trump became president. Such a pity it did not have happened the other way round. Hopefully that fool Trump will not be there for much longer.
Sure Hillery Clinton was not perfect but she would have been better than Trump. I do think do that Obama picked the wrong person to succeed him. Surely his Vice President would have been a better bet.

But it will all eventually lead to the greatest president. Federation president Red Forman!

AMKC

Stark wrote: »

That's decided by the primaries, not by Obama surely?

I think they are used to water down all the candidates so they eventually get the one candidate they hope will beat the Republican candidate and something similer happens with them so they have there's to go up against the Domecratic candidate.
I still think the president can pick a candidate who he would like to replace him/her but its up to there party and then elections if they get picked or not to do so.

Evade

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

But it will all eventually lead to the greatest president. Federation president Red Forman!

I can't not picture him calling the Klingon ambassador a dumbass and threatening the Romulans with a boot up the ass.

AMKC

Borg Cube wrote: »

How was Obama a great president, what did he actually do that was so great?

He took over after there was another useless American President there and turned the American economy around after the crash of 2008. He brought lots of American troops home from places they never should have been. He saved big American business's that would have went under otherwise. He had respect for other World leaders and for how the World works. He actually worked his way up and educated himself to deserve to be the President of America. Trump did not. He also brought in ObamaCare which offered better heath services to Americans. Obama done all this and would have done even more except for the resistance he faced in the senate against his party. The most important one do is that Obama gave people hope. He planned the capture of Osama Bin Laden the architect of the 2001 attack on America. Yes there was sometime he made mistakes or went over a red line that he should not have gone over like in Syria when he said chemical attacks would be a red line and when it happened he done nothing about it when he should have. But then what American president did not malke a mistake. They are only human after all. The biggest difference between Obama do and the orange buffoon that is there now is that Obama had empathy and a moral compass. The buffoon that is there now cares about absolutly no one but himself not even his so called wife. She is just with him for the power and the money. If he had non e of that she would not even look at him.
Trump is a child. He should not be president of a creche nevermind the President of US.

Dave0301

Wait...did I miss a scene on Freecloud with Obama in it?

TheValeyard

Dave0301 wrote: »

Wait...did I miss a scene on Freecloud with Obama in it?

He was doing a deal with Quark.

SimonTemplar

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm on the verge of giving up on this show. The thing i can't get past is that Picard is almost totally unrecognisable as the Picard from TNG. Not only do the writers not seem to have any grasp of the character, but Stewart seems to have forgotten how to play him.

I can understand this opinion. I think they knew this too because some of the pre-release interviews mentioned that this is not the same Picard from the Enterprise and that he had changed.

I'm sticking with it though. It's not as good as it could have been but it is still keeping me interested each week, especially now that Seven is back.

One thing that struck me in this episode was how brilliantly Jeri Ryan fell back into the role of Seven, especially compared with your commentary about Patrick Stewart. She has the potential to have her own series.

Stark

I'm reading the prequel novel at the moment. Really helps fill in the gaps as to the characters' motivations. Makes some stuff easier to appreciate. Like you really get why Admiral Clancy went off on Picard the way she did for example. Or why the Romulan refugees are living the way they are. And why Starfleet just gave up after the Mars attack.

I enjoyed this. Jeri r was brilliant
Agree she had time to escape so staying was weird. Didn't want to cause a bounty being put on picard and didnt have anywhere else?

Don't know what to make of jurati. Maybe they showed her stuff in the chat with sunglasses lady. Maybe that's the big secret the romulan supersecret police are hiding. Maybe all AI turn into borg

Don't think patrick s is acting badly. Didn't like legolas and the "it's pretending!" shtick

Stark

Stark wrote: »

I'm reading the prequel novel at the moment. Really helps fill in the gaps as to the characters' motivations. Makes some stuff easier to appreciate. Like you really get why Admiral Clancy went off on Picard the way she did for example. Or why the Romulan refugees are living the way they are. And why Starfleet just gave up after the Mars attack.

What’s the name of that?

Stark

"Star Trek Picard: The Last Best Hope". Good read so far (half way through).

Funnily enough all the negative reviews on Amazon (of which there are few) seem to be in relation to "bad language" in the book which I haven't noticed. Raffi blurts out "Shít" in front of Picard at one point but I felt that was perfectly appropriate to the character and the boundaries pushing that would bring us to "Jay-El".

TheValeyard

bluewolf wrote: »

Don't know what to make of jurati. Maybe they showed her stuff in the chat with sunglasses lady. Maybe that's the big secret the romulan supersecret police are hiding. Maybe all AI turn into borg

Lol. Romulan Supersecret police.
I've a feeling that the Romulans go crazy when assimilated because they have already been assimilated. The entire race are Borg sleeper drones.

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

"Star Trek Picard: The Last Best Hope". Good read so far (half way through).

Funnily enough all the negative reviews on Amazon (of which there are few) seem to be in relation to "bad language" in the book which I haven't noticed. Raffi blurts out "Shít" in front of Picard at one point but I felt that was perfectly appropriate to the character and the boundaries pushing that would bring us to "Jay-El".

Worf captain of the Enterprise is interesting. Thought he was with chancellor Martok. Unless they are going down the STO route where Martok was assassinated.

Seems they are also going down the STO route with the Romulus Supernova event not been a natural occurrence. Who knows, we may yet see Iconians!

Evade

TheValeyard wrote: »

Worf captain of the Enterprise is interesting. Thought he was with chancellor Martok. Unless they are going down the STO route where Martok was assassinated.

Seems they are also going down the STO route with the Romulus Supernova event not been a natural occurrence. Who knows, we may yet see Iconians!

He must have done one hell of a good thing to get past his terminal rank.

TheValeyard

Evade wrote: »

He must have done one hell of a good thing to get past his terminal rank.

Yeah I thought Sisko said he'd never make Captain now because of what he did. But maybe after the Dominion war, they were so short of Captains even Harry Kim gets promoted.

Evade

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yeah I thought Sisko said he'd never make Captain now because of what he did. But maybe after the Dominion war, they were so short of Captains even Harry Kim gets promoted.

They'd probably have a surplus of captains after the post war wind down. I think I'd prefer if Worf was stuck at lieutenant commander, you don't often see lasting consequences in Star Trek.

Stark

Yeah in the book, Picard has to argue the case for him and the DS9 incident is brought up. He ends up being promoted for "optics": if a Klingon can head up the Federation's flagship, then maybe someday Romulan can also be friends.

Evade

That's more than a little token-y isn't it? If I was Worf I'd be kind of annoyed if that was the reason I was getting promoted.

TheValeyard

Evade wrote: »

That's more than a little token-y isn't it? If I was Worf I'd be kind of annoyed if that was the reason I was getting promoted.

Corporate Diversity Promotion!

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

Lol. Romulan Supersecret police.
I've a feeling that the Romulans go crazy when assimilated because they have already been assimilated. The entire race are Borg sleeper drones.

I couldn't remember the name except there was a v and a d and a h

pah

Stark wrote: »

I'm reading the prequel novel at the moment. Really helps fill in the gaps as to the characters' motivations. Makes some stuff easier to appreciate. Like you really get why Admiral Clancy went off on Picard the way she did for example. Or why the Romulan refugees are living the way they are. And why Starfleet just gave up after the Mars attack.

Bollocks. Why should I have to read a book to understand characters situations and motivations that are occurring in this show?

IMO because the writers don't know how to do it during the screen time available to them.

SimonTemplar

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I can understand this opinion. I think they knew this too because some of the pre-release interviews mentioned that this is not the same Picard from the Enterprise and that he had changed.

I was thinking about what I wrote here. It wasn't too long ago that Stewart gave a stellar performance in Logan so I don't think age has tarnished his acting abilities. In fact, it may have been a very specific decision on his part to play Picard differently than he did in TNG and the movies given that he mentioned the difference in interviews.

FGR

TheValeyard wrote: »

even Harry Kim gets promoted.

I agree with everything you said but let's not go overboard here! :pac: