Another dead homeless person

Raconteuse

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes it's bad.

The talk of mental health and addiction issues is interesting. I'm sure many many do have these issues and spoke to several homeless who do have these issues but it's never pointed out in this argument that many wealthy successful and professional people have mental health issues and addiction issues too.

Clearly it's not the addiction and mental health issues alone. Certainly doesn't help.

But in these cases, their addiction and mental health issues are stopping them from staying in accommodation. They can't pay rent, can't keep the place in a decent condition, engage in anti social behaviour, and therefore property owners won't want to rent to them.

Some once were the professional people you refer to.

irishgrover

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

I very clearly didn't blame foreign nationals for anything did you even read my OP?.

yes I read it and I did not state that you blame foreign nationals for anything. I even explicitly put in a disclaimer in case of your misinterpretation

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

If you believe you owe asylum seekers or migrants something what have you done for them? Any volunteering any help any support at all? I highly highly highly doubt it. Its a absurd argument. I care about people I don't do anything for or even look at in the street.
Buying a coffee off them in Costa doesnt count pal!.

Personally I don't believe that you need to be heavily involved in something to have an opinion on something. However since it seems to be so central to your argument, I'll answer.
"Migrants" - not sure what your definition of a migrant is. I work with a load of migrants, primary from US, UK, India and Poland. I don't treat them differently from anyone else
Regarding asylum seekers, I interact with asylum seekers 2 or 3 times a week. Normally bring them to doctor / social welfare appointments. Or at the weekends it tends to be bringing kids to sporting activities etc. Again, this does not have a bearing on anything, but it seems to be something you think is important.
By coincidence many of the people who I interact with are what I would consider to be economic migrants who should be processed much faster and removed from the country. However that is the governments fault, not the individuals fault. As such I blame politicians and not the migrants themselves.
I don't visit costa coffee. However generally speaking when I buy coffee I pay little attention to the migration status of the person who sells it.

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

I do!.

I Work 40 hours a week for a company and run a side business so about 65 hour working week total not including commutes to provide for my foreign partner and daughter.

Good for you :-)

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

I simply dont think Ireland should provide for asylum seekers BEFORE Irish people.

Thats my point. Nothing more nothing less.

I'm going to get binary here so you understand.
I fundamentally disagree with your point. I DO NOT believe that you can put indigenous people before non indigenous. Where do you draw the line?
We have legal obligations as members of the EU and as members of the UN - this is the "price" of not being an isolationist state isolated from the world.
Regardless, where do you draw the line?
No refugees get homed until all Irish are taken care of? But what does that mean?

• A roof over their head?
• Their own "forever" home
• A bedroom for each child
• A home where the person grew up?
• A home within walking distance of work, schools, shops etc?

In summary I don't believe that you should exclusively take care of Irish people first because I don't believe it is possible. In addition it would go against various international laws and treaties that we have signed up to.

I personally also am concerned that a minority in society believe that such a simplistic narrative is anything other than aspirational, simplistic bull****.

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

It never ever ceases to amaze me people on this who dont read posts just because they disagree with something in first line they go oh thats racist or some other such nonsense yet never dated or lived with a foreign national. I do.

Its sad to see people so unable to actual engage or discuss something. Just mindless emotional reactions no logic no devate no rationale whatsoever.

Im going to let you in on a little secret pal.

In the adult World people do disagree with each other and do question certain policies.

This isnt Teletubbies. We dont all have to see someones point and fall down rub their bellies and run around in glee with how great they are!.

Seriously? you're awarding yourself brownie points for dating a foreign national? - I genuinely don't know how to respond to that!??

Finally "Bud", stop called me "Pal" :-)

limnam

limnam wrote: »

Yet people sit and wonder how the fck a party like SF managed to win the popular vote.

It's this. Exactly this.

the same ppl will be wondering how sf didnt solve it in five years too. "the government will handle it"

LineOfBeauty

Blaming immigrants who mainly work menial jobs instead of blaming the super rich who hoard all the wealth and who price people out of homes is certainly a novel way of looking at it.

limnam

Deleted User wrote: »

the same ppl will be wondering how sf didnt solve it in five years too. "the government will handle it"

Yet that's how desperate people are, they think SF can.

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Blaming immigrants who mainly work menial jobs instead of blaming the super rich who hoard all the wealth and who price people out of homes is certainly a novel way of looking at it.

blaming any one group and never asking any questions about the habits, traits and expectations of the people looking to be housed out of everyone else's pocket is neither novel nor useful

limnam

limnam wrote: »

Yet that's how desperate people are, they think SF can.

think isnt in it im afraid.

_Brian

Housing should be allocated on the basis of assessed need.

People who refuse ANY house should be removed from the list for maybe 5 years.

limnam

_Brian wrote: »

Housing should be allocated on the basis of assessed need.

People who refuse ANY house should be removed from the list for maybe 5 years.

If they're put back to the bottom of the list, that would solve that.

What's the waiting list at the moment? 10+?

limnam

limnam wrote: »

If they're put back to the bottom of the list, that would solve that.

What's the waiting list at the moment? 10+?

19 years is the waiting list for Dublin.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

left leaning loola's

Left leaning are loolas now? You know, left leaning can still be pretty conservative?

Any argument you may have is completely overshadowed by this stupid statement.

maestroamado

It's an absolute disgrace that so many people are homeless and dying on our streets, then we have our elected TDs (who have millions) playing tunes the opening day of our parliment. These are the kinda people we elect to look after all the people in our country.

WHAT ARE WE LIKE?



Just 8,000 houses built last year offered for sale on open ... www.irishtimes.com › business › construction › just-8-000-houses-bui..


Google above and have a look at above, the only people be able to afford homes in this country will be politicians and bankers

Lonesomerhodes

Bishop Jealous Stovepipe wrote: »

Left leaning are loolas now? You know, left leaning can still be pretty conservative?

Any argument you may have is completely overshadowed by this stupid statement.

Well the left always take the mickey out of anyone patriotic so it goes both ways you know.

Most of them are too stupid to understand communism has killed hundreds of millions they see it as some utopia.

Ask any Venezuelan how socialism is working out for them eh!.

And I don't think lefties are conservative. Can't think of any left parties for example that are pro life.

limnam

VM1 viewers.

Easy to spot.

Boggles

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Ask any Venezuelan how socialism is working out for them eh!.

I do enjoy when people throw out that line, immediately you know they haven't a clue about the history of Venezuela and can be immediately ignored.

Normally you would ask them what which socialist policy failed in Venezuela, but much like Trump they only have the one line Sound Bite.

_Brian

limnam wrote: »

If they're put back to the bottom of the list, that would solve that.

What's the waiting list at the moment? 10+?

5 years ban from the list however long it is.

BanditLuke

maestroamado wrote: »

It's an absolute disgrace that so many people are homeless and dying on our streets, then we have our elected TDs (who have millions) playing tunes the opening day of our parliment. These are the kinda people we elect to look after all the people in our country.

WHAT ARE WE LIKE?



Just 8,000 houses built last year offered for sale on open ... www.irishtimes.com › business › construction › just-8-000-houses-bui..


Google above and have a look at above, the only people be able to afford homes in this country will be politicians and bankers

The lack of housing is a deliberate FFG policy to keep prices high in the sector. It will not change when they form a government next week.

jmayo

pinkyeye wrote: »

I actually thought this might be a well considered thread about how to help the true homeless but no.

It's just another anti-immigration thread.

Immigration has NO effect whatsoever on the street sleepers.

I am no fan of the so called asylum seekers who wander through numerous countries to get here, chancing their arm and getting put up for years by the taxpayers and supported by vested interested NGOs and legal sponging types, but ...
YES there is a BUT.

As one my normal adversaries on the topic of the asylum industry above says ...
It doesn't matter if we had no immigration, no asylum seekers and houses for all, we would still have those incapable of looking after themselves, of keeping a roof over their head and not drinking or injecting themselves to death.

Sadly some people have addictive personalities and mental health issues.

joeysoap

I was in Galway for a midweek break. There was a poor man sleeping in Logues doorway near Eyre square. There was another poor man burrowed in deep at the rear of TK Max. Neither were Irish (eastern European) nor asylum seekers. But are they classified as homeless now? Just asking.

Thelonious Monk

I don't really know what you're supposed to do. Do people want every homeless person with mental health and addiction problems just to be given an apartment each? They wouldn't be able to look after themselves, there's work involved in living your life and taking care of a home. So in that case you'd basically need carers for each one of them too, who would have an impossible job of trying to get these people to live in any way normally. So I don't really know what the solutions are, nothing easy anyway.

Thelonious Monk

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Ask any Venezuelan how socialism is working out for them eh!.

Or ask the Nordic countries how their blend of socialism and capitalist economics is working out for them. Pretty good I think.

limnam

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't really know what you're supposed to do. Do people want every homeless person with mental health and addiction problems just to be given an apartment each? They wouldn't be able to look after themselves, there's work involved in living your life and taking care of a home. So in that case you'd basically need carers for each one of them too, who would have an impossible job of trying to get these people to live in any way normally. So I don't really know what the solutions are, nothing easy anyway.

No it's not easy. But just ignoring it for 10 years has made the job for anyone who does want to try and do something very difficult.

Ulysses Gaze

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Or ask the Nordic countries how their blend of socialism and capitalist economics is working out for them. Pretty good I think.

With incredibly high Income tax rates, 50%+, for everyone and the ability to organise society in an altruistic fashion for the common good.

Will never happen here.

limnam

limnam wrote: »

No it's not easy. But just ignoring it for 10 years has made the job for anyone who does want to try and do something very difficult.

But it's not ignored. People THINK it's ignored because they only read about it and the articles have agendas.

There's a lot of money put into homelessness. There's charities and government initiatives.

Did you know that focus Ireland provides apartments for homeless people to get back on their feet? There's a waiting list but they majority don't avail of it because you need to prove that your serious and that requires clean samples for drugs and staying sober in advance of getting it.

Did you also know that focus (who I think do a great job) also include short term letting and adult children living at home in some of their statistics? Again, stats inflated or deflated depending on the agenda.

Likewise, the homeless shelters numbers are inflated by government to make out there are more available than there really are. Ie, if you have a bed for the week in a hostel but end up in hospital or jail or sleep rough because of drugs, that bed is added to the 'available last night' numbers even though it wasn't really available until too late to be used.

Then there's the people that choose to stay sleeping rough for alcohol / drugs / relationship reasons. Most hostels are segregated so unmarried couples sleep rough instead of separating. Most won't allow drugs and alcohol in nor people that are clearly under the influence. You some cannot help someone who won't help themselves. If they won't stop using drugs or in the case of mental health, refuse to take the medication then no amount of charities, money or time will fix their problem. (Unless you want to remove freewill and force them)

Now the last one I want to all the op, how much time have you actually spent dealing with homeless people? By your post I think very little.

limnam

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

But it's not ignored. People THINK it's ignored because they only read about it and the articles have agendas.

There's a lot of money put into homelessness. There's charities and government initiatives.

It's a small aspect of the overall very complex problem.

Example

Some 2,498 children and 3,764 adults are waiting to get an appointment with mental health services.

Does that sound like a well funded service to you?

Some people can't even get on with a GP as a lot of them are now full on and not taking on patients.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Did you know that focus Ireland provides apartments for homeless people to get back on their feet? There's a waiting list but they majority don't avail of it because you need to prove that your serious and that requires clean samples for drugs and staying sober in advance of getting it.

This would require a lot of other services to be available.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Likewise, the homeless shelters numbers are inflated by government to make out there are more available than there really are. Ie, if you have a bed for the week in a hostel but end up in hospital or jail or sleep rough because of drugs, that bed is added to the 'available last night' numbers even though it wasn't really available until too late to be used.

What's the dry bed situation like ? more could be done?

Thelonious Monk

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

With incredibly high Income tax rates, 50%+, for everyone and the ability to organise society in an altruistic fashion for the common good.

Will never happen here.

I'd be all for it. But I think we just don't have the civic pride and togetherness required for this kind of thing.

Raconteuse

jmayo wrote: »

I am no fan of the so called asylum seekers who wander through numerous countries to get here, chancing their arm and getting put up for years by the taxpayers and supported by vested interested NGOs and legal sponging types, but ...
YES there is a BUT.

As one my normal adversaries on the topic of the asylum industry above says ...
It doesn't matter if we had no immigration, no asylum seekers and houses for all, we would still have those incapable of looking after themselves, of keeping a roof over their head and not drinking or injecting themselves to death.

Sadly some people have addictive personalities and mental health issues.

Yeah there is some awful dishonesty. There are definitely people who don't have a place to live due to their lease ending and difficulty finding/affording somewhere. These are the awful cases.

Otherwise though, it's unrepresentative and manipulative. What's not mentioned is: eviction due to non payment, trashing the gaff, and anti social behaviour; refusal to accept housing that is offered - wanting very specific specs and no willingness to move away; always relying on welfare - no question of "I'll try get a job", just "house me" - and if you have another baby or babies while being put up in hotels, what the fuq is wrong with you?; mental health and addiction issues and uncontrollable violence sending people onto the streets.

Ulysses Gaze

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

With incredibly high Income tax rates, 50%+, for everyone and the ability to organise society in an altruistic fashion for the common good.

Will never happen here.

I'll sign up to those things happily after priority #1:


people working and paying their own way can afford quality housing in desirable areas close to jobs

solve that first, and see how we're fixed.

limnam

limnam wrote: »

It's a small aspect of the overall very complex problem.

Indeed, so what's the solution? More money? Leo personally building houses and issuing prescriptions?

As I said, you can only help someone up so much. Ultimately they need to actually try.

limnam wrote: »

Some 2,498 children and 3,764 adults are waiting to get an appointment with mental health services.

Does that sound like a well funded service to you?

Some people can't even get on with a GP as a lot of them are now full on and not taking on new patients

A, irrelevant to homeless issues. I have yet to meet a homeless person or unemployed person without a medical card and a diagnosed issue complete with prescriptions. Usually ADHD and just a touch of something to qualify as'disabled'. Why the hell is being a junkie a disability?

The majority of those I would suggest, are people not prioritised on the public system ie lower and middle class. Course doctor O'Reilly tried to blame that same group for blocking the system and forcing medical insurance on them even though it had no impact on waiting lists.

B, well funded doesn't get measured by lists alone. As I said elsewhere, my family live in Spain where medical treatment is free. No higher spend but faster and more efficient system. The difference that I can see is people are more respectful of the system and when to access it. You don't have the place wall to wall with people that have colds and stubbed toes.

C, go to a different gp if the one to want is full. My gp is 10km from where I live in Ireland. I stayed with him because he's my doctor since birth.

limnam wrote: »

This would require a lot of other services to be available.

Not really, drug court already requires regular samples and tests are actually easy and cheap. The likes of merchants quay already do it.

limnam wrote: »

What's the dry bed situation like ?

As opposed to the wet bed???

limnam wrote: »

more could be done?

For some yes, for all? Not a hope.

The money is there, the staff is there but in Ireland we have a tendency to try and apply a solution to everyone forever.

Apply cut off points, allow staff to prioritise based on genuine need instead of hearing magic words which only certain people know.

Stop allowing people to manipulate the system, your heart strings and the media with self created issues and stories. Sleeping in a Garda station when in reality you have an income and had a home but refused multiple solutions.

Or more recently where a family arrived to a Garda station after being evicted multiple times from social housing for anti social behavior.

You know what Spain does to people that act the maggot in social housing? ****s em out and gives the house to someone who will appreciate it. Lot less people behaving like animals I can tell you.