working above my pay grade, any advice

LegacyUser

My manager is leaving at a critical time and a lot of work which is above my grade is being foisted on to me. I complained about this to my manager and she got out my job description which is incredibly vague, she is stressed, has been acting irrational so is not the best person to talk to about this. The key thing is that I know for a fact that in other departments people who have the same job as me are not responsible for these tasks. I've made it clear that I am willing to help as much as possible with these tasks but I don't want to be held accountable for high level decision making that could come back to bite me firmly on the ass. The project that we are delivering comes around once in a blue moon and is critical in terms of the economical benefit to the company so it's not something to be taken lightly.

Obviously there is some benefit to me acting above my grade and learning new things in terms of potential future job progression but I feel like the pressure is building up on me and the easy 'not a care in the world' 'leave work at 5' job that I once enjoyed is rescinding into the distance. I know that my employer who is hiring for my bosses position at the moment is not interested in hiring someone who has expertise in my area as they are focusing on another aspect of the job description and they are hoping that this person will learn on the job.
They keep telling me that I am not responsible but I feel like this is gas lighting of the highest order as I am the only one doing the work and that will be the case for a long time as the hiring process takes ages at my organisation.

_Brian

If you want any chance of future progression knuckle down and do what you can.
Obviously when they are gone you will be reporting to someone above that level and it will be a good opportunity to get your name out there and impress senior management.

Or complain your not working above your grade expectations and be left at that grade for the rest of your time there.

I know one MN I worked in you couldn’t get a grade increase until you were regularly demonstrating the ability to do 75% of the tasks of the grade above you.

Jim2007

rockhardplace wrote: »

The project that we are delivering comes around once in a blue moon and is critical in terms of the economical benefit to the company so it's not something to be taken lightly.

You are right is certainly is not be taken lightly... and failing to step up at a critical time for the company will not be taken lightly either.

rockhardplace wrote: »

the easy 'not a care in the world' 'leave work at 5' job that I once enjoyed is rescinding into the distance.

Well it is definitely gone, if you are not stepping up when they need you.

Strumms

No wrong answer. What you could do is step up, do as they ask and see what comes your way in return and how beneficial it is to your career... in a couple of weeks ask for time off at short notice for a ‘family’ reason. If you are quoted from the manual that they need zz notice for AL requests.. you know not to go over and above again.

davedonie

I would knuckle down and get in with it but I would get my emails in to have paper trail that I'm being asked to cover boss' work.
When your working there may be a lot of emails you need to send about, linking in with people, and this helps to get your name circulating in the company as to what you can do. It's an opportunity to progress, just ensure you get the recognition by ensuring your name is all over the work.

BattleCorp

Personally I'd look at this as an opportunity to gain new experience and become even more valuable to the company, and potentially get promoted.

John Hutton

OP have I read it right, they want you to do work above your grade and have also told you that you are essentially not considered qualified to do it (in that you have zero chance of getting promoted or hired for that job)?

**** that

dubrov

Your choices are to

a) Complain about the additional responsibility being outside your role. This will leave return you to your old job but likely mean any goodwill from management towards you is destroyed.

b) Step up and do a good job. You will probably get zero benefit from the company and be just returned to your previous role. The experience would be good if you ever applied for a similar role outside the company.

c) Look for a job elsewhere

None are particularly attractive options I am afraid.

beauf

Be careful you don't do this job for ages, then they recruit someone into the role above you, who you then have to train in. Very common.

Strumms

Say I’m hired as a gardener in a country estate, horticulturist, whatever... grade x, salary 39,000... in the summer I’m shît busy, planting, trimming, cutting, pruning, cleaning, ordering and so on, tough work but I like the work... winter comes, a 15% decrease in actual work activities, the grass , flowers and plants don’t grow as fast and nothing much gets planted...as expected, or ‘should’ have been.

I try and fill my time with ‘busy work’ taking grass to the ‘grass cycling’ Dublin City Council place, maintenance on the shed, the equipment, planning , whatever.

The slight downturn in work, available work is noted by the management and despite the work i was hired to do being done in a quality and timely manner, the management are keen to fill any and all downtime with supplementary tasks, I’m up ladders, cleaning windows, I’m taking the cars to get washed, I’m doing a shop run for the owner, all of a sudden a dogs body as opposed to a gardener,...

summer comes around again, due to my flexibility the boss hasn’t hired extra seasonable help for all those supplementary tasks, I’m expected to do it all, I’m under pressure, I’m leaving work later, I’m under pressure at home as I’m arranged to bring the kids to football, art, ballet etc but I’m being late, wife and kids having a canary, relationship, health suffering.... employer is laughing as he’s saving shîtloads on staff yet all of a sudden maintaining the quality of gardening is taking a dive.... as I’m being pulled from pillar to post..

Say NO !

Do what you are hired to do and no more, your health, family, relationships are the only importance in life, paramount... we’ve one shot at this, we don’t come with ‘extras’, we come in anticipation of doing the work in the role we applied for and were successfully offered... going over and above only blurs lines, that can’t ever be straightened and you’ll most likely be left picking them out of your back if you go along with it.

OMM 0000

I used to love opportunities like this.

You do the work, form relationships with senior managers, create reports with your name on them, take over things so you're the natural successor... and then get promoted.

But it really depends on what you want. I always wanted to be promoted and have more money, but some people just want an easy life.

beauf

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I used to love opportunities like this.

You do the work, form relationships with senior managers, create reports with your name on them, take over things so you're the natural successor... and then get promoted.

But it really depends on what you want. I always wanted to be promoted and have more money, but some people just want an easy life.

That's overly simplistic.

That only works in a well managed company, or under a management that is progressive. A lot of places, the majority even, don't work like that.

Or you might be technical specialist. You might be a pilot, and a promotion means you are a manager and don't fly anymore. You might be a programmer and a promotion means you don't choose anymore. Some places don't have a structure to reward people without changing their role.

There are lots of facets to this problem.

In one place I worked they had a while bunch of people covering for managers who had left. HR decided late in the day that the manager role need some qualification that no one had, so they ended up giving the roles to new people with no experience of the business area. The people with experience took umbrage and stopped covering and refused to do it every again, many left or transferred. The work fell away as they were no longer able to do it.

beauf

For myself working cover or above and beyond has only made sense in about 30% of places I've worked. Usually tech start ups. The other 70% it has zero effect on promotion.

Which also suggests I need to learn to pick better places to work.

bottlebrush

You used the term 'acting above your grade' - are you in the private or public sector as 'acting' in the public sector implies you will get the salary commensurate with the grade you are acting up to. Will this be the case or is the only benefit to you the experience you will gain to get promotion? If you are not interested in the promotion, then theres not a whole lot of incentive. There may be others in the department could use the experience but you could risk being moved to another section to facilitate this.

beauf

Even if it doesn't lead to promotion I love when these opportunities come up, as it usually means I get freedom to improve lots of things which make my job easier and more efficient. So it frees up my time to do more interesting things. I wish it would happen more often.

Stheno

_Brian wrote: »

I know one MN I worked in you couldn’t get a grade increase until you were regularly demonstrating the ability to do 75% of the tasks of the grade above you.

Place I currently work in operates like this

beauf

Stheno wrote: »

Place I currently work in operates like this

It's also how you block competition from promotions. Give your crony a working up experience then make experience a prequsite of any new promotion. It's also how you bypass people, or bring in new hires over existing staff.

If you see this happening and it's not you getting the promotion you need to move laterally or charge company.

It's why loyalty is obsolete and you need to move around to keep moving up.

Stheno

beauf wrote: »

It's also how you block competition from promotions. Give your crony a working up experience then make experience a prequsite of any new promotion. It's also how you bypass people, or bring in new hires over existing staff.

If you see this happening and it's not you getting the promotion you need to move laterally or charge company.

It's why loyalty is obsolete and you need to move around to keep moving up.

I'm not saying I like it tbh it will be one of the key factors why I leave

On top of everything you said it means there is no transparency or clear career progression

KWAG2019

Strumms wrote: »

Say I’m hired as a gardener in a country estate, horticulturist, whatever... grade x, salary 39,000... in the summer I’m shît busy, planting, trimming, cutting, pruning, cleaning, ordering and so on, tough work but I like the work... winter comes, a 15% decrease in actual work activities, the grass , flowers and plants don’t grow as fast and nothing much gets planted...as expected, or ‘should’ have been.

I try and fill my time with ‘busy work’ taking grass to the ‘grass cycling’ Dublin City Council place, maintenance on the shed, the equipment, planning , whatever.

The slight downturn in work, available work is noted by the management and despite the work i was hired to do being done in a quality and timely manner, the management are keen to fill any and all downtime with supplementary tasks, I’m up ladders, cleaning windows, I’m taking the cars to get washed, I’m doing a shop run for the owner, all of a sudden a dogs body as opposed to a gardener,...

summer comes around again, due to my flexibility the boss hasn’t hired extra seasonable help for all those supplementary tasks, I’m expected to do it all, I’m under pressure, I’m leaving work later, I’m under pressure at home as I’m arranged to bring the kids to football, art, ballet etc but I’m being late, wife and kids having a canary, relationship, health suffering.... employer is laughing as he’s saving shîtloads on staff yet all of a sudden maintaining the quality of gardening is taking a dive.... as I’m being pulled from pillar to post..

Say NO !

Do what you are hired to do and no more, your health, family, relationships are the only importance in life, paramount... we’ve one shot at this, we don’t come with ‘extras’, we come in anticipation of doing the work in the role we applied for and were successfully offered... going over and above only blurs lines, that can’t ever be straightened and you’ll most likely be left picking them out of your back if you go along with it.

Should be compulsory reading. Over my working lifetime I eventually realized that the people at the top are actually quite stupid and incapable of organizing very much effectively and efficiently. They have a few key “gifts”: unjustified confidence in themselves and no scruples about exploiting other people into overwork and all the personal compromises of it, illness and even death. The trick is to turn the tables on them and exploit them for your benefit OP; if you have the opportunity to change jobs do it. F*** them. If you don’t, keep your own work as a priority and do it meticulously. Whatever left over time you have give to the other work. Start bombarding your manager and higher ups that a mission critical project is not getting the attention it deserves and do it in writing.

LegacyUser

bottlebrush wrote: »

You used the term 'acting above your grade' - are you in the private or public sector as 'acting' in the public sector implies you will get the salary commensurate with the grade you are acting up to. Will this be the case or is the only benefit to you the experience you will gain to get promotion? If you are not interested in the promotion, then theres not a whole lot of incentive. There may be others in the department could use the experience but you could risk being moved to another section to facilitate this.

I am not getting an increase in pay. I could try to ask for a half increase, but I think it would be unlikely as there is a process and they make it difficult also they will just claim that I'm supposed to be doing it anyway based off the vague job description, 'and any other duties' my boss has already argued against these being higher grade tasks.

It is my understanding based on what other grades in other departments are doing that it's not normal for me to be doing these tasks. This is based off my knowledge of the jobs of 6 individuals at the same grade. (I can't move to another department without an actual vacancy and a formal interview).

I'm grade 5, my boss is grade 7. Grade 6 doesn't exist. I would not get a grade 7 job as it is subject specific and I don't have that degree. Grade six doesn't exist in this department or in many other departments (money saving). The other problem is my boss has been very poor at handover and has told me I should get used to working in an unstructured environment (disorganized she means). There is no reason why she cannot give me structured notes etc., she is scatter brained and talking to her about her processes is confusing, my other colleagues have found this to be the case also. She's losing the plot a bit and took one of my colleagues into a 'formal disciplinary' meeting the other day refusing to sign off on their probationary period, I've sent her an email asking for handover notes and that she creates a folder for files and instructions but she has been reluctant to do so, there is nothing else I can do.

If I did ask for more money I would want to have a good understanding of the tasks I'm taking on so I can deliver which I don't . My day to day normal work keeps me busy enough already. I could wait until she leaves and ask her boss but in order to ask for more money I would have to criticise them a bit.

BattleCorp

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Should be compulsory reading. Over my working lifetime I eventually realized that the people at the top are actually quite stupid and incapable of organizing very much effectively and efficiently. They have a few key “gifts”: unjustified confidence in themselves and no scruples about exploiting other people into overwork and all the personal compromises of it, illness and even death. The trick is to turn the tables on them and exploit them for your benefit OP; if you have the opportunity to change jobs do it. F*** them. If you don’t, keep your own work as a priority and do it meticulously. Whatever left over time you have give to the other work. Start bombarding your manager and higher ups that a mission critical project is not getting the attention it deserves and do it in writing.

People at the top are quite stupid you say. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

backspacer

Would you not consider applying for the post OP, if you are already been assigned the duties for it, you may as well try and see can you reap the financial rewards as well?

LegacyUser

backspacer wrote: »

Would you not consider applying for the post OP, if you are already been assigned the duties for it, you may as well try and see can you reap the financial rewards as well?

I'm doing some of the tasks that my boss was doing but a only small part, she has a degree in a subject specialism that I don't so I could never get to her grade I might be able to ask for a partial raise so I can act up into the next grade category. I'm a grade 5 and my boss is a 7. I'm the only person doing my job in my particular department, there is no competition or someone else getting the tasks if I say no, I'm completely on my own.

Strumms

backspacer wrote: »

Would you not consider applying for the post OP, if you are already been assigned the duties for it, you may as well try and see can you reap the financial rewards as well?

Problem then is, operating under the same management, you’ll likely find yourself in that position too where they are actively seeking to compliment your position and set of tasks with more extra.

KWAG2019

BattleCorp wrote: »

People at the top are quite stupid you say. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You have a lot to learn.

shadydestroyer

Hmm so you are not happy to take on extra tasks outside your "pay grade".

Do you realize these tasks will stand to you and can put them on your C.V and will be great for your C.V in the future. If I was your manager and wan't prepared to do the work temporarily you will be looked as a troublemaker and would not be considered for any future promotions and I would blacklist your name. What happens if a promotion comes up for the same role you will not get it.

The best way to approach this with your current manager is to that you are happy to take on the extra work short term but salary will be need to be negotiated in a few months or to take over the position permanently.

If you are currently happy in your role and don't want any promotions then reject the extra responsibility by all means.

Strumms

shadydestroyer wrote: »

Hmm so you are not happy to take on extra tasks outside your "pay grade".

Do you realize these tasks will stand to you and can put them on your C.V and will be great for your C.V in the future. If I was your manager and wan't prepared to do the work temporarily you will be looked as a troublemaker and would not be considered for any future promotions and I would blacklist your name. What happens if a promotion comes up for the same role you will not get it.

.

So regardless of how well or brilliantly an employee of yours performs doing the actual job they are hired to do, because they won’t take on extra work outside and above their agreed job description and pay grade, you’d negatively discriminate against them when it came to promotion ? You in that case wouldn’t be fit to manage a chicken sandwich let alone a team of professionals... using terms like ‘blacklist’ and having a predetermined attitude regards hiring / promotion before the process even takes place ? Welcome to 1973, poor, real poor.

beauf

shadydestroyer wrote: »

Hmm so you are not happy to take on extra tasks outside your "pay grade".....

That's not what he said. He said he is willing (reluctantly) to do the tasks if someone else has oversight/responsibility. As the project is too critical for someone at his level.

Turtwig

There are only ever two pluses to this. The first is additional experience. The second is potentially changing or contributing to something in your organization you always wanted to. Everything else comes with a much higher degree of risk that is heavily influenced by the culture of the organisation.

Often this is just the race to bottom of the barrel. If you take on work above your market value then you devalue that market lowering wages for everyone in the process. The question is simply whether that devaluation is worth it for you. Keeping in mind the following: promotion/representative pay increases isn't a guarantee.

OMM 0000

beauf wrote: »

That's overly simplistic.

That only works in a well managed company, or under a management that is progressive.

I don't agree with this at all.

In fact, the opposite is often the case, as companies which are chaotic are crying out for order.

Management are people, and people want order and leadership. Be the person who can provide that.

I've always used chaos to my advantage and it's gotten me to CEO of a tech company with offices in multiple countries.

Strumms

Turtwig wrote: »

Often this is just the race to bottom of the barrel. If you take on work above your market value then you devalue that market lowering wages for everyone in the process. The question is simply whether that devaluation is worth it for you. Keeping in mind the following: promotion/representative pay increases isn't a guarantee.

A race to the bottom is right, there will be no promotion opportunity for you or colleagues as you between you are all contributing to saving the need for hiring into the position you are ‘dabbling’ in. It’s 100% devaluation of your potential and that of your colleagues. Both career potential and earnings. Do your assigned job and forget about doing the extras..