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Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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    #452
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Why do you think he won't? Why do think he asks members of the public to contact GSOC if they are concerned about Garda activities? Did you just pluck a headline out of your Google search? WTF has this got to do with his assertion that ex-members of the PIRA Army Council control Sinn Féin?

    He won't disclose items to GSOC. He shut down the historic enquiry team in the north which was investigating loyalist murder gangs with links to the RUC a move that Belfast judge Justice Seamus Tracey called a gross abuse of power.


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    #453
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is somebody who is not a 'cult member' or under a 'spell'. He is a victim looking for answers, just like Breege Quinn.

    Did the media or Taoiseach or TD's raise this story when Drew Harris came to power in the Gardai?

    https://twitter.com/MiamiShowband/status/1014864038390632448


    Should they have?

    You are not one of the 'manipulated' gormdubh, you are one of the 'manipulators'.

    You are on a ons sided crusade and are frankly blinded by the passion of that crusade. Never a good thing.

    I have no problem with everyone and anyone being held to account for thier serious past transgressions and being accessories to past actions. Unfortunately you as a SF voter only ask for transparency form 'the other side' why is that?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #454
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I think it was fairly obvious but I will spell it out for you why I said the following.



    This post hits the nail on he head.



    But it is all the more shocking that two intelligent middle class girls fell under the spell of republicanism. It is clear one woman must have influenced the other. Like a republican virus. The accent Mary Lou and Joanne has in particular is one of the most un-Sinn Fein accents you would ever hear.

    Not working class, not northern, female and southern especially that of plummy voiced Joanne. It is like he story of the upper class girl who wanted to slum it on a gap year with the working class, and then went off the rails.

    Not the first time this happened in fairneess.






    Sinn Fein's favorite friends they love to hate (the Indo) did a piece on Mary Lou way back in 2004.
    They called it and were proven right.

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-shinner-babe-mary-lou-came-to-the-aid-of-the-party-26221690.html

    It appears FF were sick they let Mary slip through the net as Mary Lou is highly intelligent and is a woman middle class - different subset of voter attracted. Perfect for SF a clean option Southern female and someone who could be the face. A non-active combatant during 'the struggle'.

    It is also clear the spark in the McDonald's republicanism was watching Long Kesh/the maze 1981. Mary Lou would have been an impressionable 12 year old. And her sister Joanne was even younger at the time The propaganda coup of the maze sucked them in. The mystic of republicanism the subject of this very thread the army council is not one to be feared or condemned. It is to be admired if you are a true believer. Those who do not are heretics to he cult of SF, and the new anointed faces who take orders from an army council.

    It is clear that another non-combatant during the struggle fell for this republican mystic.




    David Cullinane from Waterford who obviously wishes he was back in 1981 skipping breakfast with Bobby Sands.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/transcript-of-speakers-at-up-the-ra-sinn-f%C3%A9in-event-we-broke-the-free-state-1.4170504

    Apparently SF have broken the 'Free State' :rolleyes:. Even looking at the terminology is this the mindset that ordinary decent people want in charge of the government? Are these people that are going to move SF into normality or are they too polluted by the past and the cult of SF?

    SF's doubling in support is a very soft vote the fine line SF walk between overt republicanican lingo, and glorification the past will turn off many of the new SF voters eventually. But naturally there are some youngsters who are distance in age and geography to SF, who may be duped by SF's promise of houses etc.
    Of course there may be others who have fallen under the spell of the SF cult just like the McDonald's and Mr Cullinane did all those years ago.

    I am sure all three individuals could name the current Army Council of SF, and some have no problem taking orders from them. Part of the mystic don't ya know....

    It is said that if you look on a mirror and say the proclamation backwards that the reflection of Gerry Adams appears


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    #455
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    If you're from the north, for example Derry, you would be called a traitor for saying you support GFA.

    :confused:


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    #456
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The PSNI report said that the Army Council had an whilst Norin O'Sullivan said:



    Which is it?

    As recently as 2019, the PSNI, in Northern Ireland reiterated that the Army Council retains oversight over Sinn Féin. O'Sullivan stated that PIRA Army Council does not operate in the Republic. Harris, last week, based on current intelligence, agrees that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. Utterly consistent and compatible.


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    #457
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    smurgen wrote: »
    He won't disclose items to GSOC. He shut down the historic enquiry team in the north which was investigating loyalist murder gangs with links to the RUC a move that Belfast judge Justice Seamus Tracey called a gross abuse of power.

    They don't want to hear that smurgen. Drew has been of some service to the state.

    Across Twitter and social media AGAIN people are asking was he operating under directive. Varadkar and Martin both posting trolling tweets immediately after he spoke.


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    #458
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Irony much.

    So no point? Okay.


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    #459
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Point?

    Point? You've got nothing.
    The commissioner needs to back up all his statements now in my eyes or resign.


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    #460
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I have no problem with everyone and anyone being held to account for thier serious past transgressions and being accessories to past actions. Unfortunately you as a SF voter only ask for transparency form 'the other side' why is that?

    What 'serious past transgressions' have the leadership of SF been involved in that we don't know about or that they haven't been held to account for?

    I accept that there was a conflict/war and that is now over.


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    #461
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    smurgen wrote: »
    But we drew Harris doesn't speak the truth.he is purposefully withholding information on the Dublin/Monaghan and McGurk's bar bombings.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Do you each have actual proof or evidence of this?

    There is no evidence.
    the McEntee inquiry found that mysteriously almost all evidence held by the Gardai regarding Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the McGurk's bar bombing was somehow lost or destroyed.

    Drew Harris shutdown the PSNI’s Historical Enquiries Team investigation of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the McGurk's bar bombing.
    Consistently the British government and the PSNI have refused to release any documentation.
    That is not conjecture, its plain simple historical fact.

    Even when Irish Supreme Court judge Henry Barron was asked to hold a more enquiry he concluded that individual members of the security forces had played a part in the bombings and he said quite clearly it "must remain a suspicion" that more senior members of the police and military intelligence organisations did collude but because those authorities had provided only very limited cooperation to his inquiry he was unable to state that as fact. He was however very damning in his criticism of both the Northern Ireland police force and British government and made it clear that he himself was unhappy that he was not able to state collusion took place.

    As recently as last May (2019)Simon Coveney met British cabinet office minister David Lidington and Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Karen Bradley in London at the request of Justice minister Charlie Flanagan to seek release of all documentation that the British government and PSNI might have regarding the bombing. You would have to ask why the current FG government are still seeking undisclosed reports and evidence if they did not believe that such information is still not held by the British government and PSNI?


    So is there actual proof, at this moment no, but being that the current FG government is still seeking reports it believes to still exist, Judge Barron confirmed that members of the RUC definitely took part but was reluctantly unable to say that senior members of the police and security forces were involved it would be very hard indeed to believe that Drew Harris has not seen reports that have yet to be released despite him giving assurances that he has no further information that he could give.

    If I was Drew Harris I would be very concerned about what might be released with regards to why the the PSNI’s Historical Enquiries Team investigations were shutdown.


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    #462
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    As recently as 2019, the PSNI, in Northern Ireland reiterated that the Army Council retains oversight over Sinn Féin. O'Sullivan stated that PIRA Army Council does not operate in the Republic. Harris, last week, based on current intelligence, agrees that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. Utterly consistent and compatible.

    So contrary to what O'Sullivan said, they 'are active' in the republic?

    Please be consistent here. Which is it?


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    #463
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They don't want to hear that smurgen. Drew has been of some service to the state.

    Across Twitter and social media AGAIN people are asking was he operating under directive. Varadkar and Martin both posting trolling tweets immediately after he spoke.

    You'd wonder how normal rank and file Gardai feel about him?
    This is the same fella who drove at Gardai hq in an unmarked car owned by his former organisation without following procedure or informing his new organisation resulting in emergency barricades being deployed and a jeep written off. Bizarre and suspicious behaviour.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/drew-harris-security-psni-jeep-4594584-Apr2019/?section=comment#comments


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    #464
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    smurgen wrote: »
    He won't disclose items to GSOC. He shut down the historic enquiry team in the north which was investigating loyalist murder gangs with links to the RUC a move that Belfast judge Justice Seamus Tracey called a gross abuse of power.

    So why is he encouraging people to report to GSOC and why is he meeting with GSOC and why is he awaiting their reports before acting on allegations against members of the Gardaí?

    Deflections, straw man arguments and ad hominems won't make the truth go away. The Garda Commissioner agrees that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. What is ironic is that armchair republicans, who haven't a clue about history, see this as a bad thing and are trying to bury it.


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    #465
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So contrary to what O'Sullivan said, they 'are active' in the republic?

    Please be consistent here. Which is it?

    "Active". Nice try. Did O'Sullivan say that ex-members of the Army Council do not oversee Sinn Féin.


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    #466
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    smurgen wrote: »
    Point? You've got nothing.
    The commissioner needs to back up all his statements now in my eyes or resign.

    Oh right. That simple? Okay.


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    #467
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    "Active". Nice try. Did O'Sullivan say that ex-members of the Army Council do not oversee Sinn Féin.

    Is that the same O Sullivan that lost all her mobile phones?


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    #468
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    smurgen wrote: »
    Is that the same O Sullivan that lost all her mobile phones?

    Dunno. Don't give a toss. I didn't repost an irrelevant brainfart tweet from some Saor agus Gaelach bot.


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    #469
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    smurgen wrote: »
    You'd wonder how normal rank and file Gardai feel about him?
    This is the same fella who drove at Gardai hq in an unmarked car owned by his former organisation without following procedure or informing his new organisation resulting in emergency barricades being deployed and a jeep written off. Bizarre and suspicious behaviour.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/drew-harris-security-psni-jeep-4594584-Apr2019/?section=comment#comments

    When I see your posts all I see is Shinnerbot nonsense.


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    #470
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    "Active". Nice try. Did O'Sullivan say that ex-members of the Army Council do not oversee Sinn Féin.
    Separately, a report by the Garda Commissioner Noirin O’Sullivan for Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald has found there is no evidence of PIRA military departments or the Army Council operating in the Republic.

    If they were 'overseeing' an 'overarching strategy' then they would be 'operating' or active.

    You still sticking to the 'consistent' line Prof?


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    #471
    Pintman Paddy Losty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Will Drew Harris find himself having to be the third consecutive Garda commissioner to step down from his role?

    The law and order party are having fierce bad luck with commissioners and justice ministers.

    You couldn't make it up.

    Hahahaha.

    You really have a hard on for this don't you. I expect this to go the same way as your previous prediction the time he got a lift to work with the PSNI. Your sectarian obsession with the man is clouding your sense.

    It's not that controversial to say that Sinn Fein consult with "senior republicans" aka the IRA army council on policy decisions.

    Actually this reminds me of your furore over the Maria bailey swing. Grand predictions about governments being brought to their knees. Tinfoil hat stuff. Laughable.


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    #472
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What 'serious past transgressions' have the leadership of SF been involved in that we don't know about or that they haven't been held to account for?

    I accept that there was a conflict/war and that is now over.

    Francie get off the stage. SF only accept 'the war is over' when it becomes unpalatable to them politically not even morally!

    Do I have to list SF's unresolved 'legacy issues'. Grand they want to bring Drew Harris to justice. A noble venture if true. But yet SF close thier eyes to goings from within thier own community!

    Your post is the kind of SF double speak that infuriates me.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #473
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If they were 'overseeing' an 'overarching strategy' then they would be 'operating' or active.

    You still sticking to the 'consistent' line Prof?

    Very much so. The letter from O'Sullivan contains no mention of Sinn Féin whatsoever. It concerns itself with the activities of the IRA only. Nowhere is her letter inconsistent with the persistent assessment that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. What amuses me is that Sinn Féin supporters see this as an insult.


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    #474
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The PSNI report said that the Army Council had an whilst Norin O'Sullivan said:



    Which is it?


    Both - as they are not binary. I accept that the IRA or Army Council are not acting militarily in the state in recent years. That is not to say they do not exist or are not active.

    The "Constitution" of the IRA claims that they are the legitmate inheritors of the "socialist republic" as declared and established in 1916. When was this changed? It can only be changed by an IRA convention.

    We can all note that Sinn Fein reps always refer to "the free state", "this state", "the South", etc, and similarly "the North" and "the northern part of our country". All IRA irredemtist speak. The only Irish Republic they recognise is the one "established" in 1916 and of which, according to themselves, they are the legitmate government. They act pragmatically within the parameters of the laws and institutions that exist, but only to further their ultimate objective.

    The Army Council are active in ultimately controlling Sinn Fein.


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    #475
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    So why is he encouraging people to report to GSOC and why is he meeting with GSOC and why is he awaiting their reports before acting on allegations against members of the Gardaí?

    Deflections, straw man arguments and ad hominems won't make the truth go away. The Garda Commissioner agrees that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. What is ironic is that armchair republicans, who haven't a clue about history, see this as a bad thing and are trying to bury it.

    Why wouldn't he ask people to report?
    Receiving a report and acting on it are two totally different things altogether.
    Being guilty and being proven guilty are also two different things.

    I find it incredulous that a Garda commissioner in the republic has to rely on reports given to him by a police force in a totally different state. Yet his predecessor said the complete opposite. One of them was obviously lying.

    Surely after having access to those reports for five year he would have acted on them if there were any credible evidence in them. With all the state resources at his control, evidence as he calls it of those involved, and a very personal interest being he lost a family member, you would think that seeing those that might still be active in Provisional IRA charged and prosecuted would be some of priority to him.

    Yet not a single person has even been charged with any offence in the last 5 years with activities related to the Provisional IRA.

    At best he is admitting he has no evidence otherwise he would have acted on it, or at worst he is incompetent.


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    #476
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Francie get off the stage. SF only accept 'the war is over' when it becomes unpalatable to them politically not even morally!

    Do I have to list SF's unresolved 'legacy issues'. Grand they want to bring Drew Harris to justice. A noble venture if true. But yet SF close thier eyes to goings from within thier own community!

    Your post is the kind of SF double speak that infuriates me.

    You don't believe the conflict/war is over?


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    #477
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Very much so. The letter from O'Sullivan contains no mention of Sinn Féin whatsoever. It concerns itself with the activities of the IRA only. Nowhere is her letter inconsistent with the persistent assessment that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. What amuses me is that Sinn Féin supporters see this as an insult.

    To 'oversee' is to 'operate' Professor.

    If they are overseeing an 'overarching strategy' then they are operating. Nothing could be clearer.

    You cannot start qualifying that simple point now just because it suits you. That just makes you look profoundly silly.


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    #478
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    efanton wrote: »
    Why wouldn't he ask people to report?
    Receiving a report and acting on it are two totally different things altogether.
    Being guilty and being proven guilty are also two different things.

    I find it incredulous that a Garda commissioner in the republic has to rely on reports given to him by a police force in a totally different state. Yet his predecessor said the complete opposite. One of them was obviously lying.

    Surely after having access to those reports for five year he would have acted on them if there were any credible evidence in them. With all the state resources at his control, evidence as he calls it of those involved, and a very personal interest being he lost a family member, you would think that seeing those that might still be active in Provisional IRA charged and prosecuted would be some of priority to him.

    Yet not a single person has even been charged with any offence in the last 5 years with activities related to the Provisional IRA.

    At best he is admitting he has no evidence otherwise he would have acted on it, or at worst he is incompetent.

    What has any of that got to do with his assertion that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin? How do you know he hasn't Garda intelligence compatible with PSNI intelligence?


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    #479
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1641 wrote: »

    The Army Council are active in ultimately controlling Sinn Fein.

    How is this manifesting itself in reality?

    What do you think the goal is?


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    #480
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    To 'oversee' is to 'operate' Professor.

    If they are overseeing an 'overarching strategy' then they are operating. Nothing could be clearer.

    You cannot start qualifying that simple point now just because it suits you. That just makes you look profoundly silly.

    Don't get personal with me Francie. Oversee does not mean "operate". It means: 'To supervise. To watch or organise a job or an activity to make certain that it is being done correctly.'

    If ex-members of the Army Council are not overseeing Sinn Féin, then why not?


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    #481
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Don't get personal with me Francie. Oversee does not mean "operate". It means: 'To supervise. To watch or organise a job or an activity to make certain that it is being done correctly.'

    If ex-members of the Army Council are not overseeing Sinn Féin, then why not?

    Again, a qualification.

    If I get somebody in to supervise an operation are they not entitled to be paid, because they are in effect doing nothing (not operating)



    *By the way, I have no doubt ex members are members of the party, the same as Eoin O'Broin or David Cullinane are.


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