Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 1:04pm

Army council is the latest tactic. I wonder whats next? When will they start digging up the land looking for the disappeared? It is all getting a bit tedious now. Reeks of desperation.

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 1:04pm

1641 wrote: »

Both - as they are not binary. I accept that the IRA or Army Council are not acting militarily in the state in recent years. That is not to say they do not exist or are not active.

The "Constitution" of the IRA claims that they are the legitmate inheritors of the "socialist republic" as declared and established in 1916. When was this changed? It can only be changed by an IRA convention.

We can all note that Sinn Fein reps always refer to "the free state", "this state", "the South", etc, and similarly "the North" and "the northern part of our country". All IRA irredemtist speak. The only Irish Republic they recognise is the one "established" in 1916 and of which, according to themselves, they are the legitmate government. They act pragmatically within the parameters of the laws and institutions that exist, but only to further their ultimate objective.

The Army Council are active in ultimately controlling Sinn Fein.

Well put, SF never mention Ireland unless it is prefaced with 'island of' and naturally (the State of NI for which they work) for does not exist it is the 'six counties' (my personal favourite used on RnaG all the time) or simply 'the North'.

Unless I am completely wrong I don't think I have heard a SF member refer to the ROI it is always Ireland. The old De Valera trick of only mentioning the word 'Ireland' as the name of the state in bunreacht na heireann so he would not appear accepting of partition.

I will give SF credit all the wheeling dealing, and double talk makes most superb orators, and politicians unless they do not realise they were being filmed!

Professor Moriarty · 22-02-2020 1:06pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, a qualification.

If I get somebody in to supervise an operation are they not entitled to be paid, because they are in effect doing nothing (not operating)

Payment has nothing to do with it. Why are ex-members of the Army Council not involved in overseeing Sinn Féin?

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How is this manifesting itself in reality?

What do you think the goal is?

Lack of trust from putative coalition partners. As SF will never "sell out" any of those who were involved and rarely if ever respond with unequivocal answers such information trumps what they say and merely confirms to others they cannot be trusted.

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 1:09pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

TDs singing Come Our Ye Black And Tans and shouting up the RA. Fake news eh? A quick glance at their TDs shows that SF couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

No none of what you mentioned was fake news, in fact most of what they published was factual. It was however old news. My point was that regardless of which party you support the way they carried on was shameful. The media is not supposed to take sides.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:10pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Payment has nothing to do with it. Why are ex-members of the Army Council not involved in overseeing Sinn Féin?

Because an Army Council does not exist.

You are trying desperately to have your cake and eat it with what O'Sullivan said. Disingenuous and silly, no harm to you.

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:11pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

No none of what you mentioned was fake news, in fact most of what they published was factual. It was however old news. My point was that regardless of which party you support the way they carried on was shameful. The media is not supposed to take sides.

Would you really be half as concerned if the media had had say a Maria Bailey, Eamon Gilmore or Brian Cowan week?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:12pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Lack of trust from putative coalition partners.

Let me get this straight

:
The 'army council's' GOAL is to not to be trusted by putative coalition partners?

Professor Moriarty · 22-02-2020 1:13pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because an Army Council does not exist.

You are trying desperately to have your cake and eat it with what O'Sullivan said. Disingenuous and silly, no harm to you.

Not at all. Your semantics aren't working. Everyone knows that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. I can understand why you won't admit it but the truth remains.

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 1:13pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Would you really be half as concerned if the media had had say a Maria Bailey, Eamon Gilmore or Brian Cowan week?

No

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 1:14pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't believe the conflict/war is over?

Absolutely not. It is in another phase that is all. All the main players are still there but are now working more on the ballot box instead of the Armalite,.

It was SF's grand 50 year strategy which they set out on in the 80's when they said they would recreate the political wing and then go into the Dail.

Credit where is it due to SF that strategy is now on course. But at what cost ?

Both morally (murders)

And economically and socially - a United Ireland.

spakman · 22-02-2020 1:17pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I don't particularly like SF or their past but every time I see this sort of stuff trotted out against them it just makes me decide to give them a preference somewhere on my ballot sheet.

They renounced violence to enter normal politics decades ago. People voted for them out of substantive concerns about issues like health and housing. Debate them on these issues instead of this film flam. The public deserves better than being treated like children with this sort of bogeyman politics.

I don't think I'm the only one who finds this counterproductive either.

So why have they a fcking army council controlling them so!?

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:17pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let me get this straight :
The 'army council's' GOAL is to not to be trusted by putative coalition partners?

I know you do like to play up the honest broker floating voter vibe but let's not pretend you can't get a handle on extremely simple sentences for a couple of likes!

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:18pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

No

Then I salute your exemplary defence of democracy.

efanton · 22-02-2020 1:18pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What has any of that got to do with his assertion that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin? How do you know he hasn't Garda intelligence compatible with PSNI intelligence?

Being that he has definitively said that they exist, not speculatively, surely he must know who 'they' are? after all the Gardai are not only the police force in this country but also the intelligence service.

If he knows who 'they' are then surely its his responsibility to build a case that he can put before the courts.

Five years he has been in possession of that report, had sufficient time to gather that intelligence, and more than adequate time act on it.
Yet not one arrest, no one charged and no one prosecuted.

Do you not find that the least bit strange?

I'd hate to think that he would be so slow in reacting if there were real terrorist threats from the likes of ISIS

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 1:19pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Absolutely not. It is in another phase that is all. All the main players are still there but are now working more on the ballot box instead of the Armalite,.

It was SF's grand 50 year strategy which they set out on in the 80's when they said they would recreate the political wing and then go into the Dail.

Credit where is it due to SF that strategy is now on course. But at what cost ?

Both morally (murders)

And economically and socially - a United Ireland.

Both FF and FG have bloody pasts, at what point do you pretend that they didn't? 20 years? 40 years? 60 years?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:20pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not at all. Your semantics aren't working. Everyone knows that ex-members of the Army Council oversee Sinn Féin. I can understand why you won't admit it but the truth remains.

So if you 'know' this you will be able to show us it working. Who are these 'overseers' firstly?

Can you point to a policy or action by a SF TD that has been directed by the Army Council...one where it is evident that it is something the TD doesn't believe themselves?

Any evidence at all of this 'non active activity', 'non operating operating' at all?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:21pm

is_that_so wrote: »

I know you do like to play up the honest broker floating voter vibe but let's not pretend you can't get a handle on extremely simple sentences for a couple of likes!

Out comes the usual accusations/deflection when your ridiculous post is pointed up.

Good stuff.

facehugger99 · 22-02-2020 1:22pm

1641 wrote: »

. They act pragmatically within the parameters of the laws and institutions that exist, but only to further their ultimate objective.

The Army Council are active in ultimately controlling Sinn Fein.

Dangerous road we're heading down. Millennials voting in populist charlatans on the promise of free houses.

The Democratic institutions of this State are at risk.

There's a small nub of fundamentalists amongst their current voters. The rest are sleepwalking their way into a terrorist controlled dictatorship.

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 1:23pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Lack of trust from putative coalition partners. As SF will never "sell out" any of those who were involved and rarely if ever respond with unequivocal answers such information trumps what they say and merely confirms to others they cannot be trusted.

My thoughts exactly. If SF were more upfront and got thier house in order I would consider voting for them on the ballot as I would the other options.

People who pretend the IRA army council does not exist are deluding themselves. There is no way they would get rid of that hierarchy that has served them so well.

Plus in republican circles the Army Council has prestige among the inner sanctum in SF.

As Gerry Adams himself said, he was never in the IRA but he would never dissociate himself from the IRA.

Much like how Sinn Fein will never dissociate themselves from the IRA or it's army council.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:23pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Absolutely not. It is in another phase that is all.

'Another phase'?

Would that be a United Ireland and an end to partition by 'exclusively peaceful means'?

i.e. The absence of conflict/war.

suicide_circus · 22-02-2020 1:24pm

so can we establish the following;

1. Is SF directed to any degree by the IRA army council?

2. If not, does this show a worrying level of inaccuracy in Garda / PSNI intelligence? or more worryingly that both police forces are involved in a conspiracy against SF?

3. If it is true, is MLMcD lying or is it possible that she is kept in the dark by those in the deep shadowy layers of the organisation in order to maintain plausible deniability?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:24pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. If SF were more upfront and got thier house in order I would consider voting for them on the ballot as I would the other options.

People who pretend the IRA army council does not exist are deluding themselves. There is no way they would get rid of that hierarchy that has served them so well.

Plus in republican circles the Army Council has prestige among the inner sanctum in SF.

As Gerry Adams himself said, he was never in the IRA but he would never dissociate himself from the IRA.

Much like how Sinn Fein will never dissociate themselves from the IRA or it's army council.

You want them to be 'open and transparent' YET when they are this is something negative?

RandomViewer · 22-02-2020 1:25pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Dangerous road we're heading down. Millennials voting in populist charlatans on the promise of free houses.

The Democratic institutions of this State are at risk.

There's a small nub of fundamentalists amongst their current voters. The rest are sleepwalking their way into a terrorist controlled dictatorship.

Poundshop tinfoil or do you use an industrial grade version for your hats?

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Out comes the usual accusations/deflection when your ridiculous post is pointed up. Good stuff.

I made a point, one that you clearly didn't grasp but that's OK.

22-02-2020 1:27pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How is this manifesting itself in reality?

What do you think the goal is?

The "ultimate goal" is to make the 32 county "socialist republic", which they say was established in 1916 and subsequently betrayed by politicians, a functioning reality with a Sinn Fein/Republican government. They failed/got as far as they could (take your pick) with the military tactic and now they are pursuing it through their political arm - Sinn Fein.

Ultimately they control Sinn Fein and their policies. Do you think Mary Lou would be leader if she wasn't acceptable to the Army Council ? Not a chance.

We saw a practical example of it in the cash for ash scandal. The Sinn Fein Minister (puppet) had to ask Ted Howell's permission to make a ministerial decision. Shows who is in power behind the scenes.

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 1:27pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Both FF and FG have bloody pasts, at what point do you pretend that they didn't? 20 years? 40 years? 60 years?

I realise all these but they never denied thier actions, in the manner the current SF do.

Martin McGuinness was one of the few to say he was in the IRA (eventually).

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:29pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I realise all these but they never denied thier actions, in the manner the current SF do.

Martin McGuinness was one of the few to say he was in the IRA.

He got a lot of credit for doing so, especially in the path he ultimately took.

RandomViewer · 22-02-2020 1:30pm

If Varadkers caretaker government take Harris' word as truth they must demand the immediatevscrapping of the Stormont executive and the implementation of joint authority. UN peacekeepers on the streets of Belfast by St. Patrick's day to keep loyalists at bay?

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:31pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

If Varadkers caretaker government take Harris' word as truth they must demand the immediatevscrapping of the Stormont executive and the implementation of joint authority. UN peacekeepers on the streets of Belfast by St. Patrick's day to keep loyalists at bay?

End of the world in the space of two sentences? That's impressive!

Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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