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Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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    #722
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    JamesM wrote: »
    They were gangsters, bank robbers and murderers

    The old IRA?


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    #723
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I wonder how any party here would do in similar circumstances.


    People knew who they were and as said had support in the community but the votes in the secrecy of the ballot box went elsewhere because of intimidation??
    Ah come on out of that


    You may aswell try and convince us nobody ever had sex before marriage in the 1989s because it was a mortal sin,to be honest
    Now Theres an actual equivocation (of arguments)

    But look it, leaving aside all the hoo ha here,its nothing new,I believe political parties should be very transparent in who is driving their bus including backseat drivers
    Sinn Féin need to sort this out
    They need to be realistic on some of their coatings too
    Ironically that realism will lose them votes because they'll get stick if they go into a coalition government as reality bites when theres no mun to fund half the promises
    That's reàl politik


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    #724
    beerguts
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭beerguts


    timhenn wrote: »
    Sinn Féin is not the PIRA! I couldn't give a sh1t about what Sinn Féin do. I'm telling you, the commuties who suffered under british terror supported the PIRA and in huge numbers.


    Are you from the North? Do you have first hand experience or have access to a primary source to base this statement on. Its just I have always found most people from NI that lived through that era are uncomfortable talking about the IRA/Sinn fein in general.

    Its very easy for someone that grew up after the peace process was started to romanticize the IRA/Sinn fein.


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    #725
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timhenn wrote: »
    Surely the bad guys were the ones who just targetted civilians? The british side killed over 1,000 innocents.

    Did they really?
    Where do you get these statistics?

    Of the civilian casualties, 48% were killed by loyalists, 39% were killed by republicans, and 10% were killed by the British security forces.


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    #726
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timhenn wrote: »
    What about them?

    Do you celebrate the murderers of members of AGS?


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    #727
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'm a few miles away from Roslea. He was warned about supplying the army and RUC several times.

    There are many protestants living happily in and around Roslea, they go to church with my partner and my children.

    Oh!
    Must have deserved it so!


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    #728
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    1641 wrote: »
    No they didn't create it for the craic. 1969 was a desperate time. But in no time at all they had morphed into an offensive military operation. Don't forget the Civil Rights movement didn't want them. They destroyed the peaceful movement and anyway they did not share its objectives. It was never about civil rights for the Provos. Kingsmill was not about "protecting nationalist communities". Their bombing campaign was not about protecting nationalist communities. They were clear what they were about - Brits Out and a 32 republic - by force.

    They didn't exist in 1968! They only came into existence because of state tyranny and attack from the local police force and their loyalist pals. Kingsmill happened in retaliation to the killing of 6 innocent catholics the night before. They should never have got dragged down to that level, they should have stuck to military targets and for the most part they did. This does not excuse the hideous acts committed.


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    #729
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    People knew who they were and as said had support in the community but the votes in the secrecy of the ballot box went elsewhere because of intimidation??
    Ah come on out of that


    You may aswell try and convince us nobody ever had sex before marriage in the 1989s because it was a mortal sin,to be honest
    Now Theres an actual equivocation (of arguments)

    But look it, leaving aside all the hoo ha here,its nothing new,I believe political parties should be very transparent in who is driving their bus including backseat drivers
    Sinn Féin need to sort this out
    They need to be realistic on some of their coatings too
    Ironically that realism will lose them votes because they'll get stick if they go into a coalition government as reality bites when theres no mun to fund half the promises
    That's reàl politik

    Not what I said.

    I asked how a party here would do if it's members were intimidated, censored or shot and killed going about their business. Not very easy to get your message out there.

    Remember there was no internet back then either.


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    #730
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    beerguts wrote: »
    Are you from the North? Do you have first hand experience or have access to a primary source to base this statement on. Its just I have always found most people from NI that lived through that era are uncomfortable talking about the IRA/Sinn fein in general.

    Its very easy for someone that grew up after the peace process was started to romanticize the IRA/Sinn fein.

    I am from Derry. Of course people are uncomfortable talking about it and I'll say, especially with people from the 26. You can get some extremely ignorant comments like some seen on this thread. The PIRA wouldn't have been able to operate like it did without local support. This is a fact.


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    #731
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Oh!
    Must have deserved it so!

    Nobody 'deserved' to die. But they did, in their 1000's.


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    #732
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Did they really?
    Where do you get these statistics?

    Of the civilian casualties, 48% were killed by loyalists, 39% were killed by republicans, and 10% were killed by the British security forces.

    On the CAIN website.


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    #733
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    I believe the topic of this thread is 'Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF'.
    Please look elsewhere if you need a history of IRA terrorism folks.
    That Ireland has a serious threat to the democracy of the state in Leinster House right here right now is the warning to all people of sound mind. Less deflection from this critical message and argument for sense to prevail in the state.


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    #734
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Do you celebrate the murderers of members of AGS?

    What are you on about?


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    #735
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    threeball wrote: »
    Omagh and Warrington were very brave acts. Putting a stop to those murderous children and innocent civilians just had to be done.

    Brady Attractive Superscript wrote: »
    So the men women and children of Omagh and Warrington were guilty of what ???
    Not to mention Enniskillen.

    Just to stop you there, The Omagh bombing was carried out by dissident Republicans, those that are opposed to the GFA and view Sinn Fein as traitors etc.

    The Omagh atrocity was carried out by the same group a certain Ms Cahill belonged to as it happens, the same ms Cahill that was plonked into the Seanad by Burton and Kenny.


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    #736
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,234 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    timhenn wrote: »
    Horrible acts committed does not negate the fact that their fight was just.

    What was just about chaining a Catholic into a van and blowing him up when he reached a barracks?

    Now it's an extremely simple question, and I've no doubt you've no idea what I'm talking about as it's not in the coolaid you're supping from.


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    #737
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    Hurrache wrote: »
    What was just about chain8nf2a Catholic into a van and blowing him up when he reached a barracks?

    Now it's an extremely simple question, and I've no doubt you've no idea what I'm talking about as it's not in the coolaid you're supping from.

    Nothing. Have you got comprehension difficulties?


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    #738
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,234 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    timhenn wrote: »
    Why can't you argue the points? Like I said, if you can't it's ok to just exit the thread gracefully. Nobody will think bad of you.

    Another easy question for you, what points are you talking about? Will you list them to be deconstructed, like they already have quite easily, or will you continue to verbally run away?

    3rd or 4th time, how old are you?


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    #739
    JamesM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭JamesM


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'm a few miles away from Roslea. He was warned about supplying the army and RUC several times.

    There are many protestants living happily in and around Roslea, they go to church with my partner and my children.

    A shopkeeper was warned about who he could sell items from his shop to - and then murdered - and that's OK Now we know your true colours and moral standards.


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    #740
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    timhenn wrote: »
    They didn't exist in 1968! They only came into existence because of state tyranny and attack from the local police force and their loyalist pals. Kingsmill happened in retaliation to the killing of 6 innocent catholics the night before. They should never have got dragged down to that level, they should have stuck to military targets and for the most part they did. This does not excuse the hideous acts committed.




    Who mentioned 1968?


    Anyway, this is whataboutery. Everything atrocity anyone committed was in response to something the other side did. It was a circle with no beginning or end. And no justification. So you say leave out the massacres. (Why be concerned about a few massacres? They were "the good guys" right?).

    So the massive bombing out of town and city centres was alright then? That was just protecting their communities? The proxy bombs were just protecting their communities? Warrington was just protecting their community? And so on, ad finitum? It was nothing to do with protecting their community. I assume you are post troubles and have swallowed their re-writing of history?


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    #741
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Another easy question for you, what points are you talking about? Will you list them to be deconstructed, like they already have quite easily, or will you continue to verbally run away?

    3rd or 4th time, how old are you?

    You can read back through the thread if you wish or you can look up my profile and you'll find my posts there. That should give you a good starting point. :)


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    #742
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Gas thing is, if this was a discussion about say fG it would be all about their failings on housing and health etc. and rightly so, but SF? All about dodgy characters, the Army Council, up the ra, and so on.

    Says it all for me. I’d never trust them to be perfectly honest. Just too shadowy for me, and very many like me too.


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    #743
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JamesM wrote: »
    A shopkeeper was warned about who he could sell items from his shop to - and then murdered - and that's OK Now we know your true colours and moral standards.

    Who said it was ok?

    I was just pointing out it was not ethnic cleaning. Calm yourself.


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    #744
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    timhenn wrote: »
    You can read back through the thread if you wish or you can look up my profile and you'll find my posts there. That should give you a good starting point. :)

    TBF your posts look like a very deliberate attempt to drag the thread into a generic 'IRA : justified or vicious criminal terrorists' thread with provocative posts to attract reponse posts from those outraged at your position, thus deflecting it from the discussion about the IRA Army Council attempting to gain control in the Doil.


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    #745
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timhenn wrote: »
    What are you on about?

    AGS
    You do know what that is?


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    #746
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timhenn wrote: »
    On the CAIN website.

    According to the cain website,

    Of the civilian casualties, 48% were killed by loyalists, 39% were killed by republicans, and 10% were killed by the British security forces


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    #747
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not what I said.

    I asked how a party here would do if it's members were intimidated, censored or shot and killed going about their business. Not very easy to get your message out there.

    Remember there was no internet back then either.

    In all fairness Hunger strikers topped the poll in a sympathy and protest vote in those circumstances
    But SF in general weren't getting elected
    I do not see how you're going to define the voting at the time as anything other than non violence supporting parties won 95% of the nationalist ballots on the island
    Your explanation is not what happened north or south


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    #748
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    1641 wrote: »
    Who mentioned 1968?


    Anyway, this is whataboutery. Everything atrocity anyone committed was in response to something the other side did. It was a circle with no beginning or end. And no justification. So you say leave out the massacres. (Why be concerned about a few massacres? They were "the good guys" right?).

    So the massive bombing out of town and city centres was alright then? That was just protecting their communities? The proxy bombs were just protecting their communities? Warrington was just protecting their community? And so on, ad finitum. It was nothing to do with protecting their community. I assume you are post troubles and have swallowed their re-writing of history?

    You've been brainwashed, you've swallowed the media campaign ongoing for decades. You're unaware of the actual facts and reality of what really happened. They took the fight to the british armed forces and no apology should ever be made for that. The british armed forces were terrorising our communities, killing innocents and aiding their loyalist chums to kill some more. They knew their future was most like prison or death and they still took up arms to defend their communities. That takes real bravery and courage.


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    #749
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    bubblypop wrote: »
    AGS
    You do know what that is?

    Why wouldn't I?


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    #750
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    bubblypop wrote: »
    According to the cain website,

    Of the civilian casualties, 48% were killed by loyalists, 39% were killed by republicans, and 10% were killed by the British security forces

    Did you add up the numbers then? I'm sure you'll find what I stated to be correct.


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    #751
    timhenn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 514 ✭✭✭timhenn


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    In all fairness Hunger strikers topped the poll in a sympathy and protest vote in those circumstances
    But SF in general weren't getting elected
    I do not see how you're going to define the voting at the time as anything other than non violence supporting parties won 95% of the nationalist ballots on the island
    Your explanation is not what happened north or south

    The PIRA had huge support. The elections in the protestant state for a protestant people were irrelevant to most of us.


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