Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

is_that_so

woohoo!!! wrote: »

AGS were stone walked by actors in NI. It was a covert operation sanctioned and organised by British special forces. Lots of evidence was removed or destroyed. In short, a classic terrorist operation covered up by the British authorities. This is nothing new.

With regard to Harris, I've no issue with his background but the justice minister/dept of justice woukd be well advised to ensure his loyalties do not lie with M15. Brexit negotiations and stalled government formation talks, means chances cannot be taken at this time.

How exactly does a Garda Commissioner have input on Brexit negotiations, which are the purview of the EU? Government formation too? Damn, that man has some power!

timhenn

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Still ignoring my question about the upcoming Sinn Fein rallies I see.....

You've decided to drop the nazi stuff now?

Huntergonzo

timhenn wrote: »

You've decided to drop the nazi stuff now?

Purple monkey dishwasher.

timhenn

alastair wrote: »

Nope. Loyalists were never considered to be the British side - in either loyalist or Republican circles. And the biggest toll from a single incident was from an act by dissident republicans - the Omagh bombing.

Yes, they were. You might need to brush up on your history. There's a litany of cases where they teamed up together to commit murderous acts. After Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, the british security forces decided to do their killing through proxy. You're probably unaware but there were many instances where an almost permanent british presence in certain areas vanished exactly when a loyalist gang arrived to perform an attack on the area. Very convenient.

timhenn

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Seems like the Flanagan family might have a stalker.

That's your business if you're into that.

timhenn

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Purple monkey dishwasher.

Off to ignore. Slán leat.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah he's always good for a bit of sharp speaking!

That's debatable tbh, remember it was that same sharp speaking that imo led to his own downfall, even if Wallace himself wasn't sharp enough initially to see what a rotten load of shyte was going on between shatter and AGS that shatter should know his private business at all.

Skip to six mins in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmem-yngKdY

alastair

timhenn wrote: »

Yes, they were. You might need to brush up on your history. There's a litany of cases where they teamed up together to commit murderous acts. After Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday, the british security forces decided to do their killing through proxy. You're probably unaware but there were many instances where an almost permanent british presence in certain areas vanished exactly when a loyalist gang arrived to perform an attack on the area. Very convenient.

I’m very aware of collusion. My parents were injured and nearly killed in a Glenanne Gang car bomb. I’m also well aware that the universal understanding of ‘The British’ side in the troubles was not loyalism. Stop making nonsensical claims.

McMurphy

alastair wrote: »

Nope. Loyalists were never considered to be the British side - in either loyalist or Republican circles. And the biggest toll from a single incident was from an act by dissident republicans - the Omagh bombing.

Some of us found it hard to distinguish between one or the other tbh.

Britain's most senior policeman has delivered a shocking report on the extent of plotting between RUC and British army officers…

Britain's most senior policeman has delivered a shocking report on the extent of plotting between RUC and British army officers and loyalist paramilitaries to kill suspected republicans.

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

That's debatable tbh, remember it was that same sharp speaking that imo led to his own downfall, even if Wallace himself wasn't sharp enough initially to see what a rotten load of shyte was going on between shatter and AGS that shatter should know his private business at all.

Skip to six mins in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmem-yngKdY

Life is really too short for that thanks! I mean the withering snide stuff.

timhenn

alastair wrote: »

I’m very aware of collusion. My parents were injured and nearly killed in a Glenanne Gang car bomb. I’m also well aware that the universal understanding of ‘The British’ side in the troubles was not loyalists. Stop making nonsensical claims.

Collusion was a major aspect of it! They were all on the one side forcing Nationalists to remain a part of the uk. You can come up with a different name if you're not comfortable but whatever way you want to put it, they were the same side and they killed over 1,000 innocents. As your table clearly should, the british side or you can use your preferred term, targetted civilians.

woohoo!!!

is_that_so wrote: »

How exactly does a Garda Commissioner have input on Brexit negotiations, which are the purview of the EU? Government formation too? Damn, that man has some power!

The art of critical thinking, you should try it. The state is facing a challenge from the current British government but perhaps you're more focused on ra whataboutery. Then again they've always had their useful stooges here.

Huntergonzo

timhenn wrote: »

Off to ignore. Slán leat.

Here's one for you, did you know the capital of Alaska is actually Juneau, but a lot people mistakenly think it's Anchorage.

Now, put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

woohoo!!!

timhenn wrote: »

Collusion was a major aspect of it! They were all on the one side forcing Nationalists to remain a part of the uk. You can come up with a different name if you're not comfortable but whatever way you want to put it, they were the same side and they killed over 1,000 innocents. As your table clearly should, the british side or you can use your preferred term, targetted civilians.

The British trained, ran and provided cover for loyalist gangs.

AudreyHepburn

How is this even news? The dogs on the street know the IRA never went away. The fact that people are determined to ignore this and their links to Sinn Fein is frankly worrying.

alastair

timhenn wrote: »

Collusion was a major aspect of it! They were all on the one side forcing Nationalists to remain a part of the uk. You can come up with a different name if you're not comfortable but whatever way you want to put it, they were the same side and they killed over 1,000 innocents. As your table clearly should, the british side or you can use your preferred term, targetted civilians.

My ‘preferred term’ is the one that has been universally understood for the entirety of the troubles. You don’t get to retrospectively rename sides and not get called out on it.

timhenn

woohoo!!! wrote: »

The British trained, ran and provided cover for loyalist gangs.

But some will still defend them to the hilt.

is_that_so

woohoo!!! wrote: »

The art of critical thinking, you should try it. The state is facing a challenge from the current British government but perhaps you're more focused on ra whataboutery. Then again they've always had their useful stooges here.

Well, when people are snaffling the conspiracy Koolaid that faculty just goes plain out the window. Way to go on the complete ignorance of how EU-UK negotiations will work and special kudos on not answering the question so well!

1641

timhenn wrote: »

You were going on about nazi rallies in the 30's. It's been pointed out to you that the blueshirts and Flanagan's family were nazi sympathisers at the very least.

Your reference to the 1930s is surely an attempt to deflect from the Army Council and Sinn Fein in the here and now. However, if you want to go down that line we can look at Sean Russell and the IRA pro-Nazi and anti-semitic line at that time :


"After becoming IRA chief of staff, he put into motion the bombing campaign and forged links with Nazi Germany. During the summer of 1938, the IRA held training classes in explosives throughout the country.
In January 1939, claiming to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic, the Army Council under Russell's leadership declared war on the UK in alliance with Nazi germany. The Sabotage Campaign commenced some days later with bombing attacks on a number of English cities. Russell was also involved in a meeting with German Intelligence agent Oscar Pfaus.
Once in Berlin, Russell was informed of Operation Mainau, the plan to parachute Hermann Gortz into Ireland. Russell was asked to brief Görtz on Ireland before his departure that night, but missed his takeoff from the Kassel-Fritzlar airfield. Russell's liaison officer while in Nazi Germany was SS-Standarfuhrer Edmund Veesenmayer.[6] This was at a time when the IRA's viewpoint was extremely pro-Nazi and anti-semitic . Veesenmayer (often referred to as "Hitler's coup d'etat specialist" and a "Jew exterminator") indicated particular interest that the IRA had no clear idea of what form an Irish government would take in the event of a German victory. [8]
By 20 May 1940, Russell began training with Abwehr in the use of the latest German explosive ordnance. That training was conducted at the Abwehr training school/lab at Quentzgut near Brandenburg, which specialised in the design of explosives as everyday objects. Russell also visited the training area for the Brandenburg Regiment, the 'Quenzgut', where he observed trainees and instructors working with sabotage materials in a field environment. As he received explosives training, his return to Ireland with a definite sabotage objective was planned by German Army Intelligence. His total training time with German Intelligence was over three months."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Russell



You will note that the Army Council claimed to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic as per their Constitution, claiming direct continuity from the 1916 Proclamation. This has always been their claim. They are our real 32 county government, in their opinion This is to whom Sinn Fein answer.

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I don't know what they'll be like, simply saying they will be interesting to see, that's all.

'You guys', why are you refering to me in the plural? What assumptions are you making about my politicial views Francie?

I'd call SF's unelected army council the most sinister political entity in the Republic, wouldn't you?

If it exists, yes it would.

And what is more, if the info/evidence is there then FG ignoring it and their duties as a guarantor of the GFA is even more profoundly sinister.

The 'Garda Commissioner' is MY commissioner too. I depend on him/her to do his/her duty.

If there is an 'army council' running a political party here then I expect him/her to do their job and arrest and charge those responsible.

Unless I missed something, it is illegal activity.

timhenn

alastair wrote: »

My ‘preferred term’ is the one that has been universally understood for the entirety of the troubles. You don’t get to retrospectively rename sides and not get called out on it.

What would you like to refer them to as then? You can use any term you like, it won't change the fact that they practically joined forces to murder and torture the Nationalist community. What name would you prefer me to use instead of the british side?

1641

timhenn wrote: »

But some will still defend them to the hilt.

Noone is defending anyone to the hilt. Except for your defence of the PIRA terror campaign.

alastair

timhenn wrote: »

What would you like to refer them to as then? You can use any term you like, it won't change the fact that they practically joined forces to murder and torture the Nationalist community. What name would you prefer me to use instead of the british side?

Unsurprisingly I’d suggest using the term that everyone understands - Loyalists.

timhenn

1641 wrote: »

Your reference to the 1930s is surely an attempt to deflect from the Army Council and Sinn Fein in the here and now. However, if you want to go down that line we can look at Sean Russell and the IRA pro-Nazi and anti-semitic line at that time :


"After becoming IRA chief of staff, he put into motion the bombing campaign and forged links with Nazi Germany. During the summer of 1938, the IRA held training classes in explosives throughout the country.
In January 1939, claiming to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic, the Army Council under Russell's leadership declared war on the UK in alliance with Nazi germany. The Sabotage Campaign commenced some days later with bombing attacks on a number of English cities. Russell was also involved in a meeting with German Intelligence agent Oscar Pfaus.
Once in Berlin, Russell was informed of Operation Mainau, the plan to parachute Hermann Gortz into Ireland. Russell was asked to brief Görtz on Ireland before his departure that night, but missed his takeoff from the Kassel-Fritzlar airfield. Russell's liaison officer while in Nazi Germany was SS-Standarfuhrer Edmund Veesenmayer.[6] This was at a time when the IRA's viewpoint was extremely pro-Nazi and anti-semitic . Veesenmayer (often referred to as "Hitler's coup d'etat specialist" and a "Jew exterminator") indicated particular interest that the IRA had no clear idea of what form an Irish government would take in the event of a German victory. [8]
By 20 May 1940, Russell began training with Abwehr in the use of the latest German explosive ordnance. That training was conducted at the Abwehr training school/lab at Quentzgut near Brandenburg, which specialised in the design of explosives as everyday objects. Russell also visited the training area for the Brandenburg Regiment, the 'Quenzgut', where he observed trainees and instructors working with sabotage materials in a field environment. As he received explosives training, his return to Ireland with a definite sabotage objective was planned by German Army Intelligence. His total training time with German Intelligence was over three months."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Russell



You will note that the Army Council claimed to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic as per their Constitution, claiming direct continuity from the 1916 Proclamation. This has always been their claim. They are our real 32 county government, in their opinion This is to whom Sinn Fein answer.

You couldn't follow the conversation. The 1930's nazi reference was brought up by another poster. I was just pointing out the blueshirt and Flanagan history.

As regards Russell, it was clearly the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation but clearly it was wrong to go near the nazis. See, this stuff is so easy.

The Rape of Lucretia

The lack of democratic transparency, and the facility for illegal violence make SF/IRA comparisons with Nazis superficially easy, even though not entirely correct.

But public rallies, yes, literally 'public rallies' as a party way way short of a majority, to press their case for the right to govern, does truly prompt comparison with the actions of the NSDAP after the German general elections of 1932 and 1933.

It strikes me as a crazy own goal to be following a similar tactic. Not that it wasn't effective for the Nazis getting hold of power. But that people have surely learned the lesson at this stage, and it will more likely explode on SF/IRA like an Edentubber landmine.

timhenn

1641 wrote: »

Noone is defending anyone to the hilt. Except for your defence of the PIRA terror campaign.

The PIRA came into being in response to a terror campaign conceived by loyalists and enforced by british security personnel.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it exists, yes it would.

And what is more, if the info/evidence is there then FG ignoring it and their duties as a guarantor of the GFA is even more profoundly sinister.

The 'Garda Commissioner' is MY commissioner too. I depend on him/her to do his/her duty.

If there is an 'army council' running a political party here then I expect him/her to do their job and arrest and charge those responsible.

Unless I missed something, it is illegal activity.

You know perfectly that this rhetoric is just silly. You know plenty has been tolerated to enable some semblance of peace in NI. An Army Council not directing "war" is preferable to an Army Council directing "war" (ie, terror). And the NI executive is not a soverneign government - it has limited powers.

bobbysands81

spakman wrote: »

Do you find what he said to be concerning?

No. I don’t believe him.

timhenn

alastair wrote: »

Unsurprisingly I’d suggest using the term that everyone understands - Loyalists.

But that doesn't cover the british security forces, they teamed up with loyalists to inflict a mass-murdering campaign on the Nationalist community. Why are you excusing them?

bobbysands81

1641 wrote: »

He is not saying anything new or that was not in the public domain before.


Do you think it is not relevant?

Completely irrelevant. I believe what Sinn Féin say about how their political party is run way before I’d believe a spook like Harris.