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Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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    #962
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it exists, yes it would.

    And what is more, if the info/evidence is there then FG ignoring it and their duties as a guarantor of the GFA is even more profoundly sinister.

    The 'Garda Commissioner' is MY commissioner too. I depend on him/her to do his/her duty.

    If there is an 'army council' running a political party here then I expect him/her to do their job and arrest and charge those responsible.

    Unless I missed something, it is illegal activity.

    Ah but they're not 'running' the party, they're merely 'advising', simple little advisers, nothing illegal about that, sure every party has advisers.


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    #963
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1641 wrote: »
    You know perfectly that this rhetoric is just silly. You know plenty has been tolerated to enable some semblance of peace in NI. An Army Council not directing "war" is preferable to an Army Council directing "war" (ie, terror). And the NI executive is not a soverneign government - it has limited powers.

    So you agree, FG turned a blind eye to this.

    Would you also agree then that they now wish to use what they were prepared to ignore, as a tool to gain politically in the south?

    Why not ignore it here too? Why play us all as fools.


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    #964
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yep, because the rira are not related in anyway to the ira!
    Who do you think are in the rira?
    People who were in the pira.

    One of the most ridiculous posts I’ve read on here - congrats.

    ...and here’s another one!
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    How is this even news? The dogs on the street know the IRA never went away. The fact that people are determined to ignore this and their links to Sinn Fein is frankly worrying.


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    #965
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Ah but they're not 'running' the party, they're merely 'advising', simple little advisers, nothing illegal about that, sure every party has advisers.

    This is what those watching Brexit call 'Cakeism'.

    When it suits, pivot and then when it suits another agenda, pivot back again.

    Predictable and boring in equal measure. And it is monumentally boring the electorate.


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    #966
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    1641 wrote: »
    You know perfectly that this rhetoric is just silly. You know plenty has been tolerated to enable some semblance of peace in NI. An Army Council not directing "war" is preferable to an Army Council directing "war" (ie, terror). And the NI executive is not a soverneign government - it has limited powers.

    100%, tolerance and compromise and plenty of it is required to maintain the peace. If there was a clamp down on how SF operate or the DUP for that matter there would be a bloody reaction and nobody wants that.


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    #967
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    timhenn wrote: »
    But that doesn't cover the british security forces, they teamed up with loyalists to inflict a mass-murdering campaign on the Nationalist community. Why are you excusing them?

    No - it doesn’t. Just because you want to conflate collusion with partnership, doesn’t mean that there was a partnership.


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    #968
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    David Cullinane summed things up perfectly in his victory speech , northern nationalists don't respect and seek to overturn the free state mainly due to a sense of abandonment since the creation of that state . The sense of disillusionment with that state has now extended into the state as ordinary people feel abandoned and relegated by the priorities of big money and pragmatism , it is now nearly inevitable that this movement will engulf the state regardless of who is calling the shots.


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    #969
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    100%, tolerance and compromise and plenty of it is required to maintain the peace. If there was a clamp down on how SF operate or the DUP for that matter there would be a bloody reaction and nobody wants that.

    So you are saying that 'violence, or the threat of it' does actually win you something?

    Interesting.


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    #970
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    alastair wrote: »
    No - it doesn’t. Just because you want to conflate collusion with partnership, doesn’t mean that there was a partnership.

    Ahhhhhhh, that’s okay then.


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    #971
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This is what those watching Brexit call 'Cakeism'.

    When it suits, pivot and then when it suits another agenda, pivot back again.

    Predictable and boring in equal measure. And it is monumentally boring the electorate.

    None of that really makes any sense in response to my comment, nothing but random babble.

    Boredom is a terrible thing you know, it can make people become complacent and forgetful.


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    #972
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So you agree, FG turned a blind eye to this.

    Would you also agree then that they now wish to use what they were prepared to ignore, as a tool to gain politically in the south?

    Why not ignore it here too? Why play us all as fools.


    It is not a Fine Gael issue. It has been the consistent approache of every Irish Gov. (and British Gov) throughout the Peace Process. Certainly distasteful, but distasteful is a lot better than mayhem and murder. It is the price of the Peace Process in NI.


    But "the south" - what is that? Do you mean the soverneign independent Irish state? The compromise devolved government arrangement devised for NI in the Peace Process does not apply here. Our government is fully soverneign and has full responsibility for Justice and Defence.


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    #973
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it exists, yes it would.

    And what is more, if the info/evidence is there then FG ignoring it and their duties as a guarantor of the GFA is even more profoundly sinister.
    Theres a lot of deja vu here to the defence used in old threads on is Gerry Adams in the IRA
    The 'Garda Commissioner' is MY commissioner too. I depend on him/her to do his/her duty.
    Yes but you disagree with his assessment, that's tough, the legitimate government of this country hire the Garda including Mr Harris to keep the peace and assess these things when asked

    If there is an 'army council' running a political party here then I expect him/her to do their job and arrest and charge those responsible.

    Unless I missed something, it is illegal activity.
    It's not illegal to run any party which is actually what Mr Harris was asked
    Sinn Fein would rather who runs the show to be brushed under the carpet it seems
    If I was their strategist here and if the people referred to are going to continue in their roles, it's not scrambling for brushes and rugs, I'd be, it's up front about it I'd be
    Lance the boil and manage the reaction
    Because people's attitudes on one side or another to it aren't going to change


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    #974
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    coolshannagh28 wrote: »
    David Cullinane summed things up perfectly in his victory speech , northern nationalists don't respect and seek to overturn the free state mainly due to a sense of abandonment since the creation of that state . The sense of disillusionment with that state has now extended into the state as ordinary people feel abandoned and relegated by the priorities of big money and pragmatism , it is now nearly inevitable that this movement will engulf the state regardless of who is calling the shots.


    Yes "the free state". As the Irish Republic has only one legitimate government - the Army Council.


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    #975
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So you are saying that 'violence, or the threat of it' does actually win you something?

    Interesting.

    Well yes, humans have won/taken many many many things down through the years by way of violence and war......surely you know that!!

    Ps, I don't agree with violence myself, I'm staunchly against it in fact, but there's no denying people have used it to their advantage for thousands of years.


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    #976
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    1641 wrote: »
    Yes "the free state". As the Irish Republic has only one legitimate government - the Army Council.

    If they prove to be better political strategists than those currently in place they will win regardless.


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    #977
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Theres a lot of deja vu here to the defence used in old threads on is Gerry Adams in the IRA


    Yes but you disagree with his assessment, that's tough, the legitimate government of this country hire the Garda including Mr Harris to keep the peace and assess these things when asked


    It's not illegal to run any party which is actually what Mr Harris was asked
    Sinn Fein would rather who runs the show to be brushed under the carpet it seems
    If I was their strategist here and if the people referred to are going to continue in their roles, it's not scrambling for brushes and rugs, I'd be, it's up front about it I'd be
    Lance the boil and manage the reaction
    Because people's attitudes on one side or another to it aren't going to change

    I am challenging his 'assessment'.

    If there is an 'Army Council' running a political party here...what action would you expect a Garda Commissioner to take?

    Ignoring it and only mentioning it when the governing parties are under pressure is not an option by the way.


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    #978
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    alastair wrote: »
    Loyalists are not the ‘British side’. I think we all know who the Brits are.
    alastair wrote: »
    Loyalists were never considered to be the British side - in either loyalist or Republican circles.

    This is really weird. What side were they on? Who were they loyal to? What was the union they wanted to preserve?


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    #979
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    1641 wrote: »


    But "the south" - what is that? Do you mean the soverneign independent Irish state? The compromise devolved government arrangement devised for NI in the Peace Process does not apply here. Our government is fully soverneign and has full responsibility for Justice and Defence.

    This is a very salient point and probably why Sinn Fein posters here are so irked by the whole IRA runs the party issue
    The NI assembly does not have the power to wreck the Irish economy or steer justice departments there
    The Dublin government does and the concensus is, that shouldn't be in the hands of the IRA
    Untill SF deal with this thorny issue, they are destined for permanency on the opposition benches in the Republic of Ireland
    That's a fact
    I'd expect whatever government that gets formed this year will similar to their stance on various EU referenda, deal with the causes of the protest vote such that SF won't have the benefit of it next time
    This latter part is also I think dawning on SF and irking them even more


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    #980
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    Huntergonzo wrote:
    There was a guy in Germany who used to do the same back in the 1930s......jus sayin' is all.


    parties have public meetings all the time

    I also know another irish party which used to March around in jack boots in the 30's


  • Options
    #981
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Well yes, humans have won/taken many many many things down through the years by way of violence and war......surely you know that!!

    Ps, I don't agree with violence myself, I'm staunchly against it in fact, but there's no denying people have used it to their advantage for thousands of years.

    So when FG say, 'we will not give into violence' or words to that effect, they
    are bull****ting again?


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    #982
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I am challenging his 'assessment'.

    If there is an 'Army Council' running a political party here...what action would you expect a Garda Commissioner to take?

    Ignoring it and only mentioning it when the governing parties are under pressure is not an option by the way.

    It is not possible or constitutional to prevent individuals whatever their backgrounds from influencing a political party
    We already know why if members of the PIRA Council meet still for coffee, they are not arrested
    In case it needs repeating, it's because of the GFA detente in the North

    So you are flogging a dead horse with your line there
    Better focused attentions would be to address the perception problem


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    #983
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So when FG say, 'we will not give into violence' or words to that effect, they
    are bull****ting again?


    Are you threatening? And is it personally, or as representative, or an intermediary?


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    #984
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So when FG say, 'we will not give into violence' or words to that effect, they
    are bull****ting again?

    Well probably, I mean they're politicians ffs, they bullshít all the time, every politician does.....again surely you know this to?? :-)

    I mean for example Gerry Adams was 'never in the IRA', do you honestly believe that?


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    #985
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1641 wrote: »
    Are you threatening? And is it personally, or as representative, or an intermediary?

    Ha ha ha.

    It's you guys that are tying yourselves up in knots of pivot and turning blind eyes here. Not me.

    I am delighted and grateful that the violence and conflict/war is over.


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    #986
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Lol, the attempt at tarnishing the shinners for daring to engage with the people who voted for them in hotels and halls across the country is going down like a lead balloon with the twitteratti brigade.

    Take a look at these search results: https://twitter.com/hashtag/twip?s=09

    FFG just never seem to learn. It's nice to see Simon Harris has been released from whatever dungeon he was confined to during the election campaign.


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    #987
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    parties have public meetings all the time

    I also know another irish party which used to March around in jack boots in the 30's

    This is a 'rally', I'd agrue they're a bit more provocative than a 'meeting'.

    Will you be attending one of the SF rallies?


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    #988
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    It is not possible or constitutional to prevent individuals whatever their backgrounds from influencing a political party
    We already know why if members of the PIRA Council meet still for coffee, they are not arrested
    In case it needs repeating, it's because of the GFA detente in the North

    So you are flogging a dead horse with your line there
    Better focused attentions would be to address the perception problem

    I will remind you that under the terms of the GFA ANY semblance of an IRA operating in an organised way is a serious breach.

    The 2015 report that Harris quoted was requested in response to Unionists concerns that it was operating.

    The report allayed Unionists concerns. But here it is being used at a time of government formation.
    And more importantly the Acting Taoiseach has called on the leader of a political party to 'disband the IRA'.

    Keep up the bull****ting here. But it is not working.


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    #989
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    This is a 'rally', I'd agrue they're a bit more provocative than a 'meeting'.

    Will you be attending one of the SF rallies?

    Rally's are part of the political process in almost every country. Fine Gaelers literally trying to shape reality at this stage.
    Democrats and republicans in the U.S have rallies all the time.


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    #990
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    This is really weird. What side were they on? Who were they loyal to? What was the union they wanted to preserve?

    The Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Still didn’t make them Brits. Not sure how the misunderstanding of who the Republicans, Loyalists, and Brits were has held so long?


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    #991
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ha ha ha.

    It's you guys that are tying yourselves up in knots of pivot and turning blind eyes here. Not me.

    I am delighted and grateful that the violence and conflict/war is over.

    The Fine Gaelers love conflict because they can use it to try and stigmatise political opponents. It's extremely dangerous the line they are treading imo.


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