Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

Huntergonzo

smurgen wrote: »

Rally's are part of the political process in almost every country. Fine Gaelers literally trying to shape reality at this stage.
Democrats and republicans in the U.S have rallies all the time.

Hmmm not so sure we should be using the US as our template either, remember the 'build that wall' rubbish from Trump.

Anyway I'm not a fan of political party rallies, I think there's a real sheep mentality to them and I don't trust any party, but least of all in Ireland, Sinn Fein.

Huntergonzo

smurgen wrote: »

The Fine Gaelers love conflict because they can use it to try and stigmatise political opponents. It's extremely dangerous the line they are treading imo.

So anyone who disagrees with your view is automatically a Fine Gaeler?

That's some real profound thinkin' there chief.

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Hmmm not so sure we should be using the US as our template either, remember the 'build that wall' rubbish from Trump.

Anyway I'm not a fan of political party rallies, I think there's a real sheep mentality to them and I don't trust any party, but least of all in Ireland, Sinn Fein.

I remember being in Ohio for the run up to the George Bush Jun election. I thought it was brilliantly healthy the way they had small meetings ('Soapboxes' they called them) all over the place, in cafe's and pubs. People came along to discuss, argue, vent and encourage. Very healthy way to do politics IMO

tipptom

Huntergonzo wrote: »

This is a 'rally', I'd agrue they're a bit more provocative than a 'meeting'.

Will you be attending one of the SF rallies?

Lolz,tell me what you find provocative about it?

Huntergonzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I remember being in Ohio for the run up to the George Bush Jun election. I thought it was brilliantly healthy the way they had small meetings ('Soapboxes' they called them) all over the place, in cafe's and pubs. People came along to discuss, argue, vent and encourage. Very healthy way to do politics IMO

Meh, I'm sure small meetings are probably fine, once they're well behaved, large rallies though? Not for me.

Ps, you never answered my question, do you believe Gerry Adams when he says he was never in the IRA?

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am challenging his 'assessment'.

If there is an 'Army Council' running a political party here...what action would you expect a Garda Commissioner to take?

Ignoring it and only mentioning it when the governing parties are under pressure is not an option by the way.

There’s nothing illegal in an Army Council asserting their influence on a political party. So why would you expect the Gardai or PSNI to do something about it? The issue is whether the electorate are happy about a governing party having that same arrangement.

McMurphy

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Meh, I'm sure small meetings are probably fine, once they're well behaved, large rallies though? Not for me.

Ps, you never answered my question, do you believe Gerry Adams when he says he was never in the IRA?

How large a rally can you get into a hotel, or the likes of liberty hall?


This is not a rerun of one of the Irish Water marches in Dublin, some people are losing the run of themselves.

Huntergonzo

tipptom wrote: »

Lolz,tell me what you find provocative about it?

You can't tell the difference between a rally and a meeting?

Eg of a Trump rally: 'build that wall! build that wall! build that wall!'

Will you attend a Sinn Fein rally yourself?

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Meh, I'm sure small meetings are probably fine, once they're well behaved, large rallies though? Not for me.

Ps, you never answered my question, do you believe Gerry Adams when he says he was never in the IRA?

I don't have any sound evidence to say he was. So I have no choice to believe him.

Nor do I care anymore tbh. The conflict/war happened anyway and when a settlement came he embraced it and along with McG made sure it succeeded. At great danger and expense to themselves.

IAMAMORON

alastair wrote: »

Plunkett was a fierce man for the diesel laundering.

From where? I thought he was into arms procurement? He was also very right wing and supported the appointment of a German catholic aristocrat to be the High King of Ireland, I am not joking please looks it up.

I doubt you would talk to Tom Clarke like that? The only businessman there as far as I can see?

Patrick Pearse - An muniteori and Ard mháistir Scoil Naoimh Endas - Irish Volunteer
James Connolly - labour official and Chief of Staff of the Irish Citizen Army, who were the most belligerent republican movement of the time, taking on the Dublin Metropolitan police and protecting strikers and union officials.
Tom Clarke - Shopkeeper and truth keeper. IRB Army council/Military Committee and financier - the brains and money behind the operation.
Seán MacDermott - Journalist and Army council/Military Committee member of the IRB,
Joseph Plunkett - Jesuit, advocate of the Gaelic league and Gaelic revival, loved this country, basically his hands in a few pies and some exotic views on Irish monarchy, to say the least , jaw dropping stuff. IRB Military Committee member who was sent to Germany to meet Casement. Planned the rising with Clarke and McDermott he had been to military school in England. HIs brother George was Chief of staff of the IRA for a while in 1944 after the arrest and execution of Charlie Kerins in 1944.
Éamonn Ceannt - Galwegian and Trade unionist. Irish Volunteer.
Thomas MacDonagh - Leas Ard mháistir naoimh Endas agus an muinteori. Irish Volunteer.

This flag is rarely seen any more. It is the IRB flag. Although the political wing of the REAL IRA Saoradh use it on their emblem, with a red star, I presume for their communist socialist leanings. I am not a member so apols if I have that bit incorrect,

James Stephens in caseyourwondering
Nicholas Ashley-Cooper, 12th Earl of Shaftesbury owner of Irelands largest inland lake, Lough Neagh. The lake is duel purpose being used for drinking water and sewage disposal simultaneous, why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it. Sharing is caring after all.

Do the Provos still rotate their chief of staff? Is that procedural ( in the interest of a more robust management structure ), I get that because they are an illegal organisation and it's leaders are subject to potential arrest or belligerent actions by their enemies that it would be a good idea to share the door keys etc. But how are decisions made? Do they go on retreats to a fancy house on lough Corrib and sit around the table? Or is it a lot more secretive than that, I have been told before the provos have a structured web of members at the top where one side of the web cannot see the other, although they are in the same structure, for security purposes and seemingly only the chief of staff knows at any one time who the respective Army council members are and Brigade Commanders would not be aware of who other Brigade Commanders are, albeit they would know who they are but are not allow disclose this information to anyone? Does anyone have any ideas about that? I mean granted that your not supposed to know what the structures are unless you are already a member or a Rat. You don't have to answer that last question either, but I thought it was worth asking.

Diesel is bad for the environment for starters, I would say the Dundalk massive are praying to god Elon Musk doesn't take over, it cannot be good for business anyways. The Glens need their contraband diesel. Like Dundalk needs it pints of McArdles and Harp lager, so it does. Try and find a packet of Carrolls these days? I hear you can't even score Sweet Afton in Castleblaney anymore. Superkings are half price in Clones if you shop around though, cheaper than Cookstown or Dungannon, unless your paying with poinds. We will always have the poind, god bless it. They should start counterfitting bitcoin, at least that way you might change it in London City, as opposed to arguing blind with some foreign looking shopkeeper that it is English money just printed in a Irish bank.... they then report you and you get arrested for being a freedom fighter.

When will it ever end?

If you dip your toe in Lough Neagh you are actually physically hydrologically combined with every piece of Ocean on the planet, like it is quicker to get to Iona than lough Derg, what is that all about? Someone should tell the Earl of Shaftsbury to get lost and leave us all alone and yes your grace we want our lake back as well. Nicholas if your reading this lets try to get out for a few sooner rather than later to discuss.

Huntergonzo

McMurphy wrote: »

How large a rally can you get into a hotel, or the likes of liberty hall?


This is not a rerun of one of the Irish Water marches in Dublin, some people are losing the run of themselves.

Depends on the size of the hotel I suppose.

I wouldn't anticipate anything on the scale of the IW marches to be fair, but we'll see.

smurgen

Huntergonzo wrote: »

So anyone who disagrees with your view is automatically a Fine Gaeler?

That's some real profound thinkin' there chief.

Where did I say that?

smurgen

Checked the news, Mary Lou still not arrested. It's been days now.

Junkyard Tom

alastair wrote: »

Still didn’t make them Brits.

Here, on planet reality, these people very much saw/see themselves as British, what with their British flags and 'Ulster is British' slogans.

Not sure how the misunderstanding of who the Republicans, Loyalists, and Brits were has held so long?

Republicans/Nationalists > Irish > seek to end British jurisdiction
Unionists/Loyalists > British > seek to maintain British jurisdiction

Very strange that this has to explained to you.

alastair

smurgen wrote: »

Checked the news, Mary Lou still not arrested. It's been days now.

Again - there’s nothing illegal in the Army Council pulling strings in a political party. Nobody is going to get arrested for something that isn’t a crime. The issue in a democratic domain is; it it right that there’s an unaccountable committee influencing decisions of a governing party?

tipptom

Huntergonzo wrote: »

You can't tell the difference between a rally and a meeting?

Eg of a Trump rally: 'build that wall! build that wall! build that wall!'

Will you attend a Sinn Fein rally yourself?

So a meeting for you is okay but a rally is "provocative"?

Don't know what you are on about Trump and walls.

Americans parties have rallys all the time,Bernie Sanders had a massive one recently,the provocative old git.

FrancieBrady

alastair wrote: »

Again - there’s nothing illegal in the Army Council pulling strings in a political party. Nobody is going to get arrested for something that isn’t a crime. The issue in a democratic domain is; it it right that there’s an unaccountable committee influencing decisions of a governing party?

The IRA operating at an organisational level is totally contrary to the GFA.

Leo calling on MLMD to 'disband the IRA' means he believes the IRA are still operating.

alastair

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Here, on planet reality, these people very much saw/see themselves as British, what with their British flags and 'Ulster is British' slogans.



Republicans/Nationalists > Irish > seek to end British jurisdiction
Unionists/Loyalists > British > seek to maintain British jurisdiction

Very strange that this has to explained to you.

It’s a U.K. jurisdiction, not a British one. And those flags are either UK or Ulster flags. There is no British flag since 1801. None of the pics show it.

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

Checked the news, Mary Lou still not arrested. It's been days now.

what would you suggest Mary Lou be arrested for?

Huntergonzo

smurgen wrote: »

Where did I say that?

You keep refering to those who disagree with you as Fine Gaelers. In fact in a direct response to me you said:

"Fine Gaelers literally trying to shape reality at this stage."

What is yout obsession with Fine Gael and do believe I am a supporter of the party?

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The IRA operating at an organisational level is totally contrary to the GFA.

Leo calling on MLMD to 'disband the IRA' means he believes the IRA are still operating.

The IMC were very clear that “ the leadership which created and moulded the modern-day PIRA has turned its interest and attention exclusively to politics as the means of furthering its objectives”. That’s an understanding that they continued to operate - just not in any manner that involved an armed campaign.

FrancieBrady

alastair wrote: »

The IMC were very clear that “the modern-day PIRA has turned its interest and attention exclusively to politics as the means of furthering its objectives”. That’s an understanding that they continued to operate - just not in any manner that involved an armed campaign.

Again alastair:

The IRA operating at an organisational level is totally contrary to the GFA.

Leo calling on MLMD to 'disband the IRA' means he believes the IRA are still operating.

Huntergonzo

tipptom wrote: »

So a meeting for you is okay but a rally is "provocative"?

Don't know what you are on about Trump and walls.

Americans parties have rallys all the time,Bernie Sanders had a massive one recently,the provocative old git.

Not necessarily, some meetings can be harmful, whereas some rallies may do some good, all depends on content and behaviour.

I was giving you an example of a rally I found to be particularly ridiculous, ie Trump and build the wall. In fact a lot of US political rallies seem ridiculous to me.

Huntergonzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't have any sound evidence to say he was. So I have no choice to believe him.

Nor do I care anymore tbh. The conflict/war happened anyway and when a settlement came he embraced it and along with McG made sure it succeeded. At great danger and expense to themselves.

Hmm I find it hard to take you seriously Francie if you're suggesting that Gerry Adams was never a member if the IRA.

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Not necessarily, some meetings can be harmful, whereas some rallies may do some good, all depends on content and behaviour.

I was giving you an example of a rally I found to be particularly ridiculous, ie Trump and build the wall. In fact a lot of US political rallies seem ridiculous to me.

WTF is your point then?

Because Trump had a rally, nobody else should?

Is this another example of 'throw enough dirt and some of it will stick' politicking?

Junkyard Tom

alastair wrote: »

It’s a U.K. jurisdiction, not a British one. And those flags are either UK or Ulster flags. There is no British flag since 1801. None of the pics show it.

Right, you've been shown to have odd views and are now resorting to arguing over the meaning of words. Everyone in the north is a British Citizen -Emma DeSouza is challenging this. If you ever visit Earth make your way to the north of Ireland and tell Unionists/Loyalists they're not British.

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Hmm I find it hard to take you seriously Francie if you're suggesting that Gerry Adams was never a member if the IRA.

I don't know if he was or not, nor do I care in the slightest.

Adams did many things I disagree with, but he did what I never thought would be possible. He navigated his movement to a place where an agreement could be reached and he kept all those disparate elements on board too. Mostly.
IMO we owe him a debt of gratitude for that. And I am not ignoring the journeys and sacrifices others made in the process either.

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again alastair:

The IRA operating at an organisational level is totally contrary to the GFA.

Leo calling on MLMD to 'disband the IRA' means he believes the IRA are still operating.

Can you point me to the clause in the GFA that makes the political influence of the Army Council unlawful?

You can’t, because there isn’t one. The GFA covers demilitarisation obligations, but that’s it.

Huntergonzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF is your point then?

Because Trump had a rally, nobody else should?

Is this another example of 'throw enough dirt and some of it will stick' politicking?

Point is I'm not a fan of political party rallies, again I think there's a real sheep mentality to them, I've made that point here already.

But the Sinn Fein ones should be particularly interesting given their cloak and dagger style politics.

Now I'm afraid I can't stay and play all afternoon, there's rugby to be watched, oops does that make me a Fine Gaeler as well? :-)

Good afternoon folks, stay beautiful.

alastair

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Right, you've been shown to have odd views and are now resorting to arguing over the meaning of words. Everyone in the north is a British Citizen -Emma DeSouza is challenging this. If you ever visit Earth make your way to the north of Ireland and tell Unionists/Loyalists they're not British.

Likewise - try convincing anyone north of the border that Brits are actually locals, and see how that goes for you.