Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

Options
1…3334363839…83

Comments

  • Options
    #1052
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    It was reporters that asked whether the assessment had changed since 2015. It is clear to me that they asked because there could be a Sinn Fein government soon. It is not some big conspiracy against Sinn Fein.

    And Leo immediately got on twitter calling on Mary Lou to 'disband the IRA'.


  • Options
    #1053
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Harris did his level best to shut her up.

    Yes, with bluster, but he couldn't dispute her facts. That the 2015 report is based on 'stories from a friend of a friend etc... '

    Similar to Enda Kennys 'man with two pints' tales.


  • Options
    #1054
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    1641 wrote: »
    No other political party, that I know of, has people controlling it who belong to an "Army Council" that claims , via the IRA constitution, to be the legitimate government of the Irish Republic (32 county). This Irish Republic was according to them, established in 1916 and subsequently betrayed by politicians.

    It’s not even that - plenty of far-out ideological advisors have been involved in other political parties. But at least they’re acknowledged and fire-able. The dynamic between the Council and the Party here is rather more opaque.


  • Options
    #1055
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    You’re surprised that the cops keep an eye on former paramilitary activities?

    So now they are operating illegally?

    You guys are all over the shop here.


  • Options
    #1056
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I never heard of her before yesterday. Maybe you have been following her opinions on the subject for a while. Or maybe you only heard of her yesterday. How would I know if she is impartial?

    First time I heard of her yesterday. Lecturer in Politics, she read from Harris report in 2015 and provided the background. No reason why I should dispute what was written by Drew Harris just because she read it out.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1057
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So if there is NO crime, why is the Gardai involved?


    The Army Council were previously involved in directing terrorism, they are now involved in directing political activity, the same people.

    Why wouldn’t the Gardai be interested in what those previously involved in directing terrorism are doing now?


  • Options
    #1058
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    alastair wrote: »
    It’s not even that - plenty of far-out ideological advisors have been involved in other political parties. But at least they’re acknowledged and fire-able. The dynamic between the Council and the Party here is rather more opaque.


    Not totally opaque:


    The pledge that Sinn Fein requires all elected representatives to sign states: "...in all matters pertaining to the duties and functions of elected representatives, I will be guided and hold myself amenable to all directions and instructions issued to me by an ard comhairle of Sinn Fein." Pretty clear.
    McDonald insists she takes "instructions from no one". Which is it?

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sinn-fein-can-shake-off-spectre-of-ira-by-providing-closure-to-breege-quinn-38918159.html


  • Options
    #1059
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    So now they are operating illegally?

    You guys are all over the shop here.

    If they were acting illegally charges would be brought. But you asked why the Gardai would be interested.


  • Options
    #1060
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The Army Council were previously involved in directing terrorism, they are now involved in directing political activity, the same people.

    Why wouldn’t the Gardai be interested in what those previously involved in directing terrorism are doing now?

    Why would the gardai be interested in the former members of the IRA army council getting involved in what they GFA was designed for?

    I dunno blanch, you tell us.


  • Options
    #1061
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    If they were acting illegally charges would be brought. But you asked why the Gardai would be interested.

    If a political party leader is being asked by the Acting Taoisseach to 'disband the IRA' you think nothing illegal is going on??????


    As I say, you are spinning in ever dizzying circles here.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1062
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would the gardai be interested in the former members of the IRA army council getting involved in what they GFA was designed for?

    I dunno blanch, you tell us.

    You understand that the Gardai are involved in monitoring a whole array of activities which are not illegal, but have the potential to spill over into criminality? This being part of their job?


  • Options
    #1063
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,100 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    First time I heard of her yesterday. Lecturer in Politics, she read from Harris report in 2015 and provided the background. No reason why I should dispute what was written by Drew Harris just because she read it out.

    You confused me there. Her name is Devine, not Davis. I searched the thread, where another poster had put up her tweets yesterday. I will respectfully discount her views, even if she is an academic.


  • Options
    #1064
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If a political party leader is being asked by the Acting Taoisseach to 'disband the IRA' you think nothing illegal is going on??????


    As I say, you are spinning in ever dizzying circles here.

    Did he say anything illegal was going on?


  • Options
    #1065
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    You understand that the Gardai are involved in monitoring a whole array of activities which are not illegal, but have the potential to spill over into criminality? This being part of their job?

    Leo, as Taoiseach was privy to the detail of the 2015 report. Yet didn't call then for the IRA to be disbanded.
    All of a sudden, with no new intelligence (according to the GC), the is a requirement for the IRA to be disbanded.

    Can you make sense of that and quit pivoting?


  • Options
    #1066
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I will remind you that under the terms of the GFA ANY semblance of an IRA operating in an organised way is a serious breach.

    The 2015 report that Harris quoted was requested in response to Unionists concerns that it was operating.

    The report allayed Unionists concerns. But here it is being used at a time of government formation.
    And more importantly the Acting Taoiseach has called on the leader of a political party to 'disband the IRA'.

    Keep up the bull****ting here. But it is not working.

    You are Wrong and you keep ignoring being corrected
    The Garda believe the IRA is still actively meeting and have oversight of Sinn Féin
    The military operations have stopped
    The problem is the Gardaí and psni will not have let go unnoticed that the comrades still meet up and have assessed why

    I'm disappointed that you've resorted to invective but not surprised
    The level of consternation in the Sinn Féin response office to this being highlighted is high at the moment
    But it would be much better aimed at finding a solution to what is a road block to Sinn Féin power in Dublin rather than adding fuel to threads like this,in my opinion


  • Options
    #1067
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You confused me there. Her name is Devine, not Davis. I searched the thread, where another poster had put up her tweets yesterday. I will respectfully discount her views, even if she is an academic.

    Sound. And I will discount Harris report likewise.


  • Options
    #1068
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Leo, as Taoiseach was privy to the detail of the 2015 report. Yet didn't call then for the IRA to be disbanded.
    All of a sudden, with no new intelligence (according to the GC), the is a requirement for the IRA to be disbanded.

    Can you make sense of that and quit pivoting?

    You keep insisting that I’ve posted contradictions. I’ve done no such thing.

    The issue is topical. I’m pretty sure Leo has brought up the SF/Provo connections many times before in the Dail. In fact I know he has.


  • Options
    #1069
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    You keep insisting that I’ve posted contradictions. I’ve done no such thing.

    The issue is topical. I’m pretty sure Leo has brought up the SF/Provo connections many times before in the Dail. In fact I know he has.

    Alright. Lets simplify it. One question at a time. :rolleyes:

    Is the IRA a legal organisation?


  • Options
    #1070
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Alright. Lets simplify it. One question at a time. :rolleyes:

    Is the IRA a legal organisation?

    No it’s not, and any member of the IRA will deny their membership if challenged on it.


  • Options
    #1071
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,100 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Sound. And I will discount Harris report likewise.

    I think you need a stronger basis than the views of an academic that you only heard of a day ago.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1072
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So if there is NO crime, why is the Gardai involved?

    Because like any people who are 'known to the gardai' a close eye is kept on them.

    From the garda website -

    An Garda Síochána are guided by three simple Policing Principles which state that policing services must be provided:

    Independent and impartially
    In a manner that respects human rights
    In a manner that supports the proper and effective administration of justice.

    Our Mission - Keeping People Safe
    Ag Coinneáil Daoine Sábháilte - Keeping People Safe

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #1073
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    No it’s not,

    Next question:

    What is Leo basing his belief that the IRA exists as an organisation on?


  • Options
    #1074
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would the gardai be interested in the former members of the IRA army council getting involved in what they GFA was designed for?

    I dunno blanch, you tell us.

    If tomorrow the Kinahan gang decided to form a Tidy Towns committee to clean up Raheny, do you think the gardai would be interested in what they are doing?

    Same thing.


  • Options
    #1075
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    Is the IRA a legal organisation?


    No the IRA is not a legal organisation.

    Yes, wasps do sting. But it can be best to leave a hive undisturbed as their sting is pretty nasty.

    Leaving some aspects of the IRA undisturbed is a price to pay (unpalatable as it may be) for some level of peace in NI.

    The NI Executive is not a sovereign government. Furthermore it is a form of administration no normal jurisdiction would want. But NI is no normal jurisdiction.

    But, to paraphrase yourself, all of this has been explained several times before, but you keep querying it. And it is not because you don't "get it". It is because you just want to muddy the waters.


  • Options
    #1076
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Next question:

    What is Leo basing his belief that the IRA exists as an organisation on?

    The level of online consternation;)


  • Options
    #1077
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Next question:

    What is Leo basing his belief that the IRA exists as an organisation on?

    Police intelligence.


  • Options
    #1078
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If tomorrow the Kinahan gang decided to form a Tidy Towns committee to clean up Raheny, do you think the gardai would be interested in what they are doing?

    Same thing.

    If the Kinahan gang meet the requirements of an independent monitoring commission then I wouldn't expect the Gardai to be interested at all.

    And I wouldn't think it proper that a Taoiseach is depending on information that doesn't seem to be the Gardai's or that International Commission either.


  • Options
    #1079
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If the Kinahan gang meet the requirements of an independent monitoring commission then I wouldn't expect the Gardai to be interested at all.

    And I wouldn't think it proper that a Taoiseach is depending on information that doesn't seem to be the Gardai's or that International Commission either.

    The IMC were clear that the PIRA leadership were continuing to operate in a political sphere!
    the leadership which created and moulded the modern-day PIRA has turned its interest and attention exclusively to politics as the means of furthering its objectives.


  • Options
    #1080
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,185 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    alastair wrote: »
    Police intelligence.

    So we arrive at the question we were at before the pivotting started.

    Why is Leo as Taoiseach not calling for arrests given he thinks an illegal organisation is operating in this state and NI?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1081
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    i think the squirming of ff and fg is very telling. The PIRA leadership may well have turned themselves to politics - but the minute they done that they were no longer the PIRA. Its like a primary school having to point out the obvious


Advertisement