Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So we arrive at the question we were at before the pivotting started.

Why is Leo as Taoiseach not calling for arrests given he thinks an illegal organisation is operating in this state and NI?

Name me a single PIRA prosecution based on membership alone - ever? It never happened, and it’s not going to happen now.

And once again - I’ve not pivoted at any point. That’s your baseless accusation - just like the claim that the Army Council’s political activity was in opposition to the GFA.

Mortelaro

maccored wrote: »

i think the squirming of ff and fg is very telling. The PIRA leadership may well have turned themselves to politics - but the minute they done that they were no longer the PIRA. Its like a primary school having to point out the obvious

Theres no squirming in labour FF or FG about this
You cant blame them for highlighting their objections to SF in government
For all I know,FF may be working on a compromise to bring them in though
I'd not be surprised either if SF are too

The rest of us ..listening to bluster

FrancieBrady

alastair wrote: »

Name me a single PIRA prosecution based on membership alone - ever? It never happened, and it’s not going to happen now.

And once again - I’ve not pivoted at any point. That’s your baseless accusation - just like the claim that the Army Council’s political activity was in opposition to the GFA.

Are you saying now that PIRA have immunity?

Here is somebody convicted of membership of an illegal organisation. It is what the SCC is for. The word of a Garda is sufficient or refusal to answer questions.

The power is there.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0218/1031291-conor-metcalfe/

smurgen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It was reporters that asked whether the assessment had changed since 2015. It is clear to me that they asked because there could be a Sinn Fein government soon. It is not some big conspiracy against Sinn Fein.

It wasn't any reporter it was Mr blueshirt high McConnell himself. It's like fox news teeing up trump minions in the US.

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you saying now that PIRA have immunity?

Here is somebody convicted of membership of an illegal organisation. It is what the SCC is for. The word of a Garda is sufficient or refusal to answer questions.

The power is there.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0218/1031291-conor-metcalfe/

Nope. I’m saying that any DPP will weigh up bringing any case on the likelihood of a successful prosecution. And that there’s zilch opportunity in going to court on an accusation of membership without illegal activity alongside membership. There never was. Conor Metcalfe was convicted on the back of recordings of his participation in illegal activities.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Alright. Lets simplify it. One question at a time. :rolleyes:

Is the IRA a legal organisation?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So we arrive at the question we were at before the pivotting started.

Why is Leo as Taoiseach not calling for arrests given he thinks an illegal organisation is operating in this state and NI?

1641 wrote: »

No the IRA is not a legal organisation.

Yes, wasps do sting. But it can be best to leave a hive undisturbed as their sting is pretty nasty.

Leaving some aspects of the IRA undisturbed is a price to pay (unpalatable as it may be) for some level of peace in NI.

The NI Executive is not a sovereign government. Furthermore it is a form of administration no normal jurisdiction would want. But NI is no normal jurisdiction.

But, to paraphrase yourself, all of this has been explained several times before, but you keep querying it. And it is not because you don't "get it". It is because you just want to muddy the waters.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Next question:

What is Leo basing his belief that the IRA exists as an organisation on?

Well, we might guess, Garda Intelligence and Military Intelligence. That is their function (again as you know perfectly well).

And before you start with your proof - proof as in a court of law is a different thing. I am sure the Gardai and Military Intelligence monitor several actors without bringing "proof" that would meet your satisfaction. Very possibly some with militant islamic associations, for instance, and the GRU.

dxhound2005

smurgen wrote: »

It wasn't any reporter it was Mr blueshirt high McConnell himself. It's like fox news teeing up trump minions in the US.

I can see a lot of similarities between Trump and Sinn Fein, when it comes to what media outlets they want to censor.

FrancieBrady

alastair wrote: »

Nope. I’m saying that any DPP will weigh up bringing any case on the likelihood of a successful prosecution. And that there’s zilch opportunity in going to court on an accusation of membership without illegal activity alongside membership. There never was.

You have said the 'gardai have the intelligence' which Leo bases his opinion on.
I have shown you where the word of a Garda was sufficient.

Det Supt Howard, who is head of the Special Detective Unit, gave evidence that he believed Metcalfe was a member of the IRA on 24 November 2015 on the basis of material he had reviewed.

This belief evidence was supported by inferences drawn from Metcalfe's failure to answer material questions at interview after gardaí had invoked Section 2 of the Offences Against the State Act.

You are completely at sea on this one.

smurgen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I can see a lot of similarities between Trump and Sinn Fein, when it comes to what media outlets they want to censor.

I think FG are more like trump.the twitter tantrums and the obfuscation of real issues.it's hilarious.and sure weren't leo and the big man himself best friends.bonded over that wind mill application Leo sorted for him

dxhound2005

smurgen wrote: »

I think FG are more like trump.the twitter tantrums and the obfuscation of real issues.it's hilarious.and sure weren't leo and the big man himself best friends.bonded over that wind mill application Leo sorted for him

I don't think Leo copied his habit of ignoring questions from certain papers. I expect that if SF get into government they will ban certain media. Boris does it as well.

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have said the 'gardai have the intelligence' which Leo bases his opinion on.
I have shown you where the word of a Garda was sufficient.



You are completely at sea on this one.

You seem to have missed the whole business of the evidence of his involvement in illegal activity also being part of his conviction.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/ira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747

smurgen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't think Leo copied his habit of ignoring questions from certain papers. I expect that if SF get into government they will ban certain media. Boris does it as well.

No trump has fox and leo has INM.there's no hard questions to ignore.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

Well, we might guess, Garda Intelligence and Military Intelligence. That is their function (again as you know perfectly well).

And before you start with your proof - proof as in a court of law is a different thing. I am sure the Gardai and Military Intelligence monitor several actors without bringing "proof" that would meet your satisfaction. Very possibly some with militant islamic associations, for instance, and the GRU.

Nonsense as usual. See post 1089

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nonsense as usual. See post 1089

See this: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/ira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747

FrancieBrady

alastair wrote: »

See this: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/ira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fira-man-secretly-recorded-assisting-in-interrogations-is-jailed-1.3905747

**** me. He was imprisoned for 'being a member of an illegal organisation' on the word of a garda.

What is wrong with you?

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

**** me. He was imprisoned for 'being a member of an illegal organisation' on the word of a garda.

What is wrong with you?

Nothing wrong with me. The (Recorded) evidence of his participation in illegal activities was part and parcel of his prosecution. Nobody has ever been successfully prosecuted for IRA membership without supporting evidence of illegal activity.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So we arrive at the question we were at before the pivotting started.

Why is Leo as Taoiseach not calling for arrests given he thinks an illegal organisation is operating in this state and NI?

Because Leo believes in the peace process and would like the IRA to come clean by themselves. Also every man his dog know that SF obstruct justice and calling for the gardai or PSNI to arrest people is useless without hard evidence and witnesses. People are afraid to come forward because of of the republican culture of 'Is binn béal ina thost'. And intimation of witnesses certain actions of those within the republican family.

dxhound2005

smurgen wrote: »

No trump has fox and leo has INM.there's no hard questions to ignore.

Plenty of hard stories and opinion pieces in all the papers about problems in housing and health. I could link to dozens. These softened up the public to vote SF, in the same way the anti EU English press was a big factor in the Brexit vote. SF should be grateful to them. And Leo needs to sharpen his media censoring skills.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/housing-crisis-will-come-back-to-bite-government-37883685.html

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

**** me. He was imprisoned for 'being a member of an illegal organisation' on the word of a garda.

What is wrong with you?

Yeah,ignore the intelligence that the IRA is active in that ...which you were making much of as not the case up to now

This is a hilarious thread today
I dont know why ye are bothering
It's a masterclass in deflection but also a masterclass in how deflection is pointless due to there being too much to try and avoid

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because Leo believes in the peace process and would like the IRA to come clean by themselves. Also every man his dog know that SF obstruct justice and calling for the gardai or PSNI to arrest people is useless without hard evidence and witnesses. People are afraid to come forward because of of the republican culture of 'Is binn béal ina thost'. And intimation of witnesses certain actions of those within the republican family.

Ah here.

That is just obscene levels of spinning and avoiding the issue here. I really don't want to disrespect the forum and start the simplistic questioning again.

I'll let you and alastair rave on at trying to extricate Lep.

smurgen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Plenty of hard stories and opinion pieces in all the papers about problems in housing and health. I could link to dozens. These softened up the public to vote SF, in the same way the anti EU English press was a big factor in the Brexit post. SF should be grateful to them. And Leo needs to sharpen his media censoring skills.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/housing-crisis-will-come-back-to-bite-government-37883685.html

There were none in the run up to the election mind. In the three week before the election it was like Ireland became a utopia in the eyes of the indo and Sunday indo.homeless became invisible as did those on hospital trolleys.

dxhound2005

smurgen wrote: »

There were none in the run up to the election mind. In the three week before the election it was like Ireland became a utopia in the eyes of the indo and Sunday indo.homeless became invisible as did those on hospital trolleys.

That is handing me some job to try to disprove. I won't even bother. It is just another part of the conspiracy theory / persecution complex that is very evident from these threads.

1641

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yeah,ignore the intelligence that the IRA is active in that ...which you were making much of as not the case up to now

This is a hilarious thread today
I dont know why ye are bothering
It's a masterclass in deflection but also a masterclass in how deflection is pointless due to there being too much to try and avoid

The thing is that Francie knows perfectly well that the IRA still exists (not militarily active). He has told us the part of the world where he is located. He is not one of the naive kids. But as a SF supporter it suits his agenda to keep going over this ridiculous circuit of "why don't they lock them up?" He knows the answer to that too.

smurgen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is handing me some job to try to disprove. I won't even bother. It is just another part of the conspiracy theory / persecution complex that is very evident from these threads.

Don't bother like you said buddy.

dxhound2005

smurgen wrote: »

Don't bother like you said buddy.

I won't. But fair play to you for paying such close attention to the output of INM. I never read their papers.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah here.

That is just obscene levels of spinning and avoiding the issue here. I really don't want to disrespect the forum and start the simplistic questioning again.

I'll let you and alastair rave on at trying to extricate Lep.

'Disrespect the forum'
You are doing more twisting, turning, than a slalom skier.
Plus all you do is try and twist people's posts and focus on pointless minutia, in order to aid in any deflection from pertinent posts.

alastair

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'll let you and alastair rave on at trying to extricate Lep.

I’ve no interest in trying to ‘extricate Leo’. My vote went elsewhere, and I’ve no dog in any FG or FF fight. But I’m certainly not going to pretend that there’s not PIRA influence ongoing in SF politics. And I’m not happy with unelected ‘councils’ muddying government policy.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

The thing is that Francie knows perfectly well that the IRA still exists (not militarily active). He has told us the part of the world where he is located. He is not one of the naive kids. But as a SF supporter it suits his agenda to keep going over this ridiculous circuit of "why don't they lock them up?" He knows the answer to that too.

I wouldn't have voted for SF in a GE if I thought the IRA still existed. I voted for the GFA because I believe in it.

I don't treat it like a political crutch the way that Varadkar does.

He, and only he, called for the 'IRA to be disbanded'. Therefore he is happy as Taoiseach to turn a blind eye when it suits him and to use it for political gain when it suits.

gormdubhgorm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is handing me some job to try to disprove. I won't even bother. It is just another part of the conspiracy theory / persecution complex that is very evident from these threads.

It is definitely well practiced by those who are fans of the militant republican struggle. It reminds me of the MMA thread where the slightest negative is said towards Conor McGregor there is uproar. I assume there is a large overlap with fans of MMA and SF voters? So I should not be surprised really.

Spanish Eyes

Immigration, whether asylum related or UN related or just chancers was silenced completely during the election campaign. Bet the taxpayer funded Immigrant supporting NGOs made sure of that.

The only thing I saw was the fact that INIS checked passports at the steps of planes landing and managed to get many bogus asylum seeking Albanians and Georgians back to their home country before they could tear up their passports.

But anyway. Apart from UN supported immigrants, everyone should have a visa, or INIS should check on the tarmac. Harsh I know, but in reality it is unsustainable.