Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

FrancieBrady

BarryD2 wrote: »

Many here, including myself would agree with you that the Irish public need a valid alternative to FF FG. But that is most emphatically not Sinn Féin. Putting them anywhere near the seat of power in this state is courting with disaster. They are the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing', nationalism dressed up in left wing garb. With one principal objective. To end partition by whatever means and whatever cost, the rest is fluff.

Don't vote for them then. That's your prerogative in a democracy.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This power swap has seen our economy destroyed, our banks completely out of control, housing in a shocking mess, health is a vicious circle of consuming funds but failing to provide for the citizen, and Garda Commissioner after Garda Commissioner compromised because two parties don't understand separation of powers.
And it is mostly the same people in society that bear the brunt of the above. The 'I'm alright jacks' have been enough to keep them there, but hopefully that day is at an end.

Jaysis, talk about over steeping the dinner in the hyperbole sauce :eek:

dxhound2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't vote for them then. That's your prerogative in a democracy.

As exercised by 75% of the voters.

FrancieBrady

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As exercised by 75% of the voters.

They finished 2% ahead of their nearest rival whose vote along with that of FG was falling, not rising.

smurgen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't vote for them then. That's your prerogative in a democracy.

That's not how these people work.not only are they not happy with their own vote they also want your vote too.it's all about power.

Straight Talker

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

Doesn't change the fact that they are on organisation, with a both a terrorist past and present.Indeed some of their members, are quite triumphant about that fact.Yes Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are tried and tested failures, but this rabble rousing terrorist rabble are not the answer imo.

woohoo!!!

BarryD2 wrote: »

Many here, including myself would agree with you that the Irish public need a valid alternative to FF FG. But that is most emphatically not Sinn Féin. Putting them anywhere near the seat of power in this state is courting with disaster. They are the proverbial 'wolf in sheep's clothing', nationalism dressed up in left wing garb. With one principal objective. To end partition by whatever means and whatever cost, the rest is fluff.

So you think partition is a good thing?

smurgen

Straight Talker wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact that they are on organisation, with a both a terrorist past and present.Indeed some of their members, are quite triumphant about that fact.Yes Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, are tried and tested failures, but this rabble rousing terrorist rabble, are not the answer imo.Anyone who voted Sinn Fein as far as im concerned, has blood on their hands.

I think you just won the thread.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They finished 2% ahead of their nearest rival whose vote along with that of FG was falling, not rising.

The protest harvest again? Its fickle
8 months ago SF were in the doldrums as you know losing seats all over the shop
Basic analysis is better than party fawning in my opinion

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

On economic and some other policy issues, definitely No. I'm on record as saying they are ready for coalition, not sole power.

Just on this point, which economic policies have you have issues with? And I may have misinterpreted you but do you not trust them on their own? As in you think the FF or FG would be needed to reel them in?

smurgen

Mortelaro wrote: »

The protest harvest again? Its fickle
8 months ago SF were in the doldrums as you know losing seats all over the shop
Basic analysis is better than party fawning in my opinion

So why so serious? If it's just a passing wave surely you don't need to be as worked up as you appear.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

The protest harvest again? Its fickle
8 months ago SF were in the doldrums as you know losing seats all over the shop
Basic analysis is better than party fawning in my opinion

Governments ALWAYS change because of a 'protest vote'. The government survives for a second term if the 'protest vote' isn't strong enough. That is the nature of politics.
There is nothing unusual here only that the expectant beneficiary didn't get their go at power. So let's try and belittle the voter. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Just on this point, which economic policies have you have issues with? And I may have misinterpreted you but do you not trust them on their own? As in you think the FF or FG would be needed to reel them in?

Without going into detail I thought their economic policy was not realistic. I do like their commitment to a people centred economy though and I think they will force FF and FG to confront that in their policy.

I don't trust any party in Ireland on their own. I would like to see coalitions for the forseeable future tbh.

The Rape of Lucretia

BarryD2 wrote: »

Many here, including myself would agree with you that the Irish public need a valid alternative to FF FG.

Why? Why do people think this?

The politics of FF and FG are indeed exactly the same. But are the centrist politics that is very representative of the political preferences of a great majority of Irish voters. No alternative is necessary. The country will be governed, according to those politics, and according to the general capability of the the people elected and they capability of the Irish to govern themselves. The alternatives have always existed. Effectively, the Labour party, but really that was only leftism lite - Ireland does want real leftism either. But even then, never to more than about a quarter of the vote. Greens, PDs, and other odds and sods represent particular subsets at particular times. But are pretty much FF FG too - because fundamentally that what the people want.

Ireland needs to wise up on this point. Flitting about looking for different parties in the belief that the something new or different will be better simply on that basis. But that belief has no basis. You dont need to change your vote from FF or FG if you want improvement. Simply vote for the best candidate from the two available in your constituency. And the country might improve - its the best chance you've got.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Governments ALWAYS change because of a 'protest vote'. The government survives for a second term if the 'protest vote' isn't strong enough. That is the nature of politics.
There is nothing unusual here only that the expectant beneficiary didn't get their go at power. So let's try and belittle the voter. :rolleyes:

/\
.I.
.I.

Somewhere in that,theres an acceptance of what a protest vote is and its fickleness
Unfortunately its blended with pot calling the kettle black in terms of the belittling the voter jibes

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

/\
I
I

Somewhere in that,theres an acceptance of what a protest vote is and its fickleness
Unfortunately its blended with pot calling the kettle black in terms of the belittling the voter jibes

You are calling it a 'protest vote' and 'fickle'. That is belittling voters. Those who voted deserve respect.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Without going into detail I thought their economic policy was not realistic. I do like their commitment to a people centred economy though and I think they will force FF and FG to confront that in their policy.

I don't trust any party in Ireland on their own. I would like to see coalitions for the forseeable future tbh.

Fair enough on the coalition.

But on the economy policy, which parts did you think were not realistic? That's what I'm asking. Personally I thought their pension plans were stupid, plus seeing those earning over €100k as cash cows.

And a people centred economy is useless if not realistic.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are calling it a 'protest vote' and 'fickle'. That is belittling voters. Those who voted deserve respect.

No I'm defining it
Protest votes are fickle
Fact

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

No I'm defining it
Protest votes are fickle
Fact

Any vote against a sitting government is a 'protest vote'. Trying to make this one unique is to belittle those voters.

UDAWINNER

Rallies and Protests are important, without them we'd still be paying water charges despite the high taxes in this country. Would be a very brave party to bring that back in to the political arena.

woohoo!!!

Mortelaro wrote: »

No I'm defining it
Protest votes are fickle
Fact

The last 3 elections have seen this fickle vote established. Any party that is seen to fail have been punished severely, with the corrolary that others benefit. Therefore the challenge is to retain your core vote, whilst making your party more attractive for the fickle or floating voter. I think that's a very healthy thing with every party forced to up their game.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Fair enough on the coalition.

But on the economy policy, which parts did you think were not realistic? That's what I'm asking. Personally I thought their pension plans were stupid, plus seeing those earning over €100k as cash cows.

And a people centred economy is useless if not realistic.

I didn't read one party manifesto tbh, and I explained why earlier. They have been turned into 'sales brochures' here. As the Dept Of Finance said, none of them add up.

I believe them (or am willing to give them a chance to prove) when they say they want to create a fairer society. A society where my children have a chance to own a home, are not crippled just surviving etc.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are calling it a 'protest vote' and 'fickle'. That is belittling voters. Those who voted deserve respect.

Many voters deserve to be belittled. They think they are voting for X-factor or celebrity jungle. They vote on whim, personalities, and are far more concerned with voting 'none of the above' by voting for independents or this time, SF-IRA. Without considering the implications of their vote. Nobody with any integrity, and more than an IQ of 20, would vote for an independent. No one with any decency or morality would vote for SF. Yet in Ireland this time, we had significant number in both camps. And so get the mayhem we see now. You get the government - or lack of government - you deserve Ireland.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Many voters deserve to be belittled. They think they are voting for X-factor or celebrity jungle. They vote on whim, personalities, and are far more concerned with voting 'none of the above' by voting for independents or this time, SF-IRA. Without considering the implications of their vote. Nobody with any integrity, and more than an IQ of 20, would vote for an independent. No one with any decency or morality would vote for SF. Yet in Ireland this time, we had significant number in both camps. And so get the mayhem we see now. You get the government - or lack of government - you deserve Ireland.

Better check that suitcase is under the bed! Sorry Ireland has turned out so bad for you.

Jinglejangle69

Francie those who voted FF and FG deserve more respect too.

Not the tweedle Dee and tweedle Dum rhetoric that Mary Lou.

Or when she said it would be a disaster of either of them were in government.

What about the people who voted for them?

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't read one party manifesto tbh, and I explained why earlier. They have been turned into 'sales brochures' here. As the Dept Of Finance said, none of them add up.

I believe them (or am willing to give them a chance to prove) when they say they want to create a fairer society. A society where my children have a chance to own a home, are not crippled just surviving etc.

I wasn't talking about manifestos, I just asked for an examples of what you found unrealistic.

Seems a but silly giving them a chance to prove something if you believe it to be unrealistic.

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Francie those who voted FF and FG deserve more respect too.

Not the tweedle Dee and tweedle Dum rhetoric that Mary Lou.

Or when she said it would be a disaster of either of them were in government.

What about the people who voted for them?

Calling the leaders idiots is not insulting the voters. Calling entire parties terrorists and saying voters are naive is insulting.judging by the fact that varadkar and Michael were counted in on their 5th and 6th count would suggest that the electorate agree with Mary Lou's synopsis of both.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Any vote against a sitting government is a 'protest vote'. Trying to make this one unique is to belittle those voters.

Rubbish, whether you look at it as the sum of its parts or as individual voters ,its clearly a common process
You're just deflecting again with feigned righteous indignation to avoid discussing the inevitability of the bouncy protest ball
Its characteristics are always the same,its bigger smaller always bouncing or totally deflated depending on how the issues de jour are dealt with
Its nobody's possession

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Francie those who voted FF and FG deserve more respect too.

Not the tweedle Dee and tweedle Dum rhetoric that Mary Lou.

Or when she said it would be a disaster of either of them were in government.

What about the people who voted for them?

Tweedledee and Tweedledum in the cauldron were all of them were firing insults...yeh, a bit naughty alright.

Calling them a disaster and explaining why is not 'disrespecting' anybody.

UDAWINNER

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Many voters deserve to be belittled. They think they are voting for X-factor or celebrity jungle. They vote on whim, personalities, and are far more concerned with voting 'none of the above' by voting for independents or this time, SF-IRA. Without considering the implications of their vote. Nobody with any integrity, and more than an IQ of 20, would vote for an independent. No one with any decency or morality would vote for SF. Yet in Ireland this time, we had significant number in both camps. And so get the mayhem we see now. You get the government - or lack of government - you deserve Ireland.

how dumb do you have to be to vote ffg, that is is real question. Looks at a certain poster.