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Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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    #1292
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    The SF TD for Louth was being interviewed by a British TV news program. In the background was a picture of Bobby Sands.

    OMG!!


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    #1293
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    holyhead wrote: »
    The SF TD for Louth was being interviewed by a British TV news program. In the background was a picture of Bobby Sands.

    So what, Paddy Agnew was elected TD for Louth while still on the blanket in the cages during that time.


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    #1294
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    holyhead wrote: »
    The SF TD for Louth was being interviewed by a British TV news program. In the background was a picture of Bobby Sands.

    So what?


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    #1295
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    McMurphy wrote: »
    So what?

    I think republicans are supposed to be embarrassed about their history when on view to their 'betters'. :)


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    #1296
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    For a party that is meant to be young and progressive they have a very strong attachment to events of yester year.


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    #1297
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    holyhead wrote: »
    For a party that is meant to be young and progressive they have a very strong attachment to events of yester year.

    1200 odd posts "reminding" Sinn Fein of "yester year".

    Not to mention a dozen other threads.

    :pac:


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    #1298
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    holyhead wrote: »
    For a party that is meant to be young and progressive they have a very strong attachment to events of yester year.

    IMG-1827.jpg?format=1000w


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    #1299
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Boggles wrote: »
    1200 odd posts "reminding" Sinn Fein of "yester year".

    Not to mention a dozen other threads.

    :pac:

    If you put Gerry Kelly’s name into YouTube you come across at least two documentaries about his past which make great play about his being forced fed by the British. Well unlike Robert McCartney, Jean McConville, Paul Quinn and Robert Nairac Kelly is alive. So however distressing the force feeding was he was given the chance to live unlike the aforementioned who met their end at the hands of Gerry Kelly’s IRA


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    #1300
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    holyhead wrote: »
    If you put Gerry Kelly’s name into YouTube you come across at least two documentaries about his past which make great play about his being forced fed by the British. Well unlike Robert McCartney, Jean McConville, Paul Quinn and Robert Nairac Kelly is alive. So however distressing the force feeding was he was given the chance to live unlike the aforementioned who met their end at the hands of Gerry Kelly’s IRA

    What's that got to do with someone having a picture of Bobby Sands on their wall?

    :confused:


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    #1301
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Boggles wrote: »
    What's that got to do with someone having a picture of Bobby Sands on their wall?

    :confused:

    It all goes back to the troubles in Northern Ireland!


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    #1302
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    holyhead wrote: »
    If you put Gerry Kelly’s name into YouTube you come across at least two documentaries about his past which make great play about his being forced fed by the British. Well unlike Robert McCartney, Jean McConville, Paul Quinn and Robert Nairac Kelly is alive. So however distressing the force feeding was he was given the chance to live unlike the aforementioned who met their end at the hands of Gerry Kelly’s IRA

    It looks like you haven't a clue, I suggest a little further reading?

    Please don't assume because I am calling you out here that I support the chunts or anything. But Robert Nairac? Get a grip please.


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    #1303
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It looks like you haven't a clue, I suggest a little further reading?

    Please don't assume because I am calling you out here that I support the chunts or anything. But Robert Nairac? Get a grip please.

    I would agree what Nairac was doing was reckless but to meet the end he did was horrific and to deny his family a funeral was equally sick.


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    #1304
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    holyhead wrote: »
    I would agree what Nairac was doing was reckless but to meet the end he did was horrific.

    All is fair in love and war, that is as far as I am going. But zero sympathy to be honest. The phucker has actually caused as much hassle since he was killed. As far as I am concerned he was very bad news. A murderer in uniform.


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    #1305
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    holyhead wrote: »
    I would agree what Nairac was doing was reckless but to meet the end he did was horrific and to deny his family a funeral was equally sick.

    He was a scumbag of the highest order who targeted innocent people on behalf of his handlers along with the rest of Glenane gang - hopefully he suffered to his last breath.


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    #1306
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    He was a scumbag of the highest order who targeted innocent people on behalf of his handlers along with the rest of Glenane gang - hopefully he suffered to his last breath.

    Wow that’s a pretty strong point of view. I guess those who were victims of the paramilitaries on all sides feel a similar hurt.


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    #1307
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    holyhead wrote: »
    Wow that’s a pretty strong point of view. I guess those who were victims of the paramilitaries on all sides feel a similar hurt.

    It's not really a strong point of view where I'm from which is where he carried out most of his operations on behalf of the British state. Many believe his own set him up because he was so out of control - either way he was 'neutralised' thankfully.


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    #1308
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    It's not really a strong point of view where I'm from which is where he carried out most of his operations on behalf of the British state. Many believe his own set him up because he was so out of control - either way he was 'neutralised' thankfully.

    It will be interesting to see if the truth about his ending ever comes out.


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    #1309
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    holyhead wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see if the truth about his ending ever comes out.

    Unless there's a fully engaged truth commission I can't see it happening. There was so much hurt carried out on all sides. It would be great for future generations if this was all sorted out in the next decade or so.

    Only then can you start to properly normalise the society in the north e.g. fully integrated schools, removing of 'peace walls', a proper understanding of each sides culture - not triumphalism, shared spaces to benefit all. Maybe then you could put the notion of a new united Ireland forward.


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    #1310
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Yawn.. of course not, we'd all love to see a peacefully united Ireland by common agreement among the majority of people who inhabit the island.

    And that is the position more or less of all the parties in this Republic, we aspire to it but it's not top of the agenda.

    Whereas in SF, this is what drives them - their primary policy. That's a filter that could yield disastrous decisions if they get anywhere near power in this state. SF needs to sort out it's differences with our Unionist brethren up North first. Show us that works and is the way forward.
    It is their reason for existing, to undo partition. And working Stormont together is the way forward. As regards a border poll, well that's not up to SF or anyone else on this island, it's in the gift of the NI secretary.

    I see no harm in examining what a 21st century united Ireland might looked like, in practice. Who knows where Brexit is going to end up so let's have that conversation without being bound by convention of previous centuries.


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    #1311
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    If SF were in Government how would ministers style themselves (or a Taoiseach), particularly in international forums? They never use the official term, "Ireland", to refer to our state, nor Eire - nor do they even use the informal term "Rep of Ireland". How would they want to be introduced?
    Would our Taoiseach (SF) want to be introduced as representing the "Free State", "the 26 counties", or "southern ireland"? Would a Sinn Fein Minister at an international meeting, say the EU Council, sit in front of nameplate designating "Ireland", even though SF never use term (except in a 32 county context)?
    Perhaps, if the Army Council, gave the go-ahead? I don't imagine all SF members would have this weird hang-up, if it wasn't official theological dogma over which they have no control.

    For reference Article 4 of our constitution states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."


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    #1312
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1641 wrote: »
    If SF were in Government how would ministers style themselves (or a Taoiseach), particularly in international forums? They never use the official term, "Ireland", to refer to our state, nor Eire - nor do they even use the informal term "Rep of Ireland". How would they want to be introduced?
    Would our Taoiseach (SF) want to be introduced as representing the "Free State", "the 26 counties", or "southern ireland"? Would a Sinn Fein Minister at an international meeting, say the EU Council, sit in front of nameplate designating "Ireland", even though SF never use term (except in a 32 county context)?
    Perhaps, if the Army Council, gave the go-ahead? I don't imagine all SF members would have this weird hang-up, if it wasn't official theological dogma over which they have no control.

    For reference Article 4 of our constitution states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."

    FFS, even a modicum of research would have shown that up for the nonsense scaremongering rubbish of a point it is. Like you don't even have to navigate past the first few lines on the site. :rolleyes:

    www.sinnfein.ie
    Join with us in building a new Ireland - Join Sinn Féin today
    If you live in Ireland, we invite you to become a member of Sinn Féin today by clicking here.

    If you live outside Ireland we invite you to join or international membership - Cairde Sinn Féin by clicking here.


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    #1313
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FFS, even a modicum of research would have shown that up for the nonsense scaremongering rubbish of a point it is. Like you don't even have to navigate past the first few lines on the site. :rolleyes:

    www.sinnfein.ie

    have they also recognised the Irish Army as the only legit army in the state and the gardai as the only enforcers of the laws of the state ?


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    #1314
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FFS, even a modicum of research would have shown that up for the nonsense scaremongering rubbish of a point it is. Like you don't even have to navigate past the first few lines on the site. :rolleyes:

    www.sinnfein.ie


    That does not work at all, Francie. SF do use the term "Ireland" but only in the context of what most would call the geographical island, or what the IRA would call the socialist republic as "established" in 1916. The quote in your link states "If you live in Ireland, we invite you to become a member of Sinn Féin today". They are not using the term to refer to this state.


    Now, Francie, point out anywhere in their literature that they do, or any reference to a quote from a Sinn Feiner that refers to our state as Ireland, Eire, or the Rep of Ireland.It is always and everytime "the south", "the 26 counties", "the Free State", etc. If it ever happens otherwise it is a slip of the tongue and not maintained. It is theologically taboo.


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    #1315
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    have they also recognised the Irish Army as the only legit army in the state and the gardai as the only enforcers of the laws of the state ?

    Let me google that for you as it seems to be broken in the rest of the country. :rolleyes:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mcguinness-says-army-is-oglaigh-na-heireann-26776600.html
    As far as I am concerned the Irish Army are Oglaigh na hEireann and I stand by the forces of this State and I stand fully square behind both the Garda Siochana and the PSNI in their efforts to apprehend those who would try to plunge us back to the past,"


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    #1316
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    The language issue is contemplated in today's IT...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-sinn-f%C3%A9in-will-not-call-the-state-by-its-name-1.4182195?mode=amp


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    #1317
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    holyhead wrote: »
    I would agree what Nairac was doing was reckless but to meet the end he did was horrific and to deny his family a funeral was equally sick.

    Wouldn't be a SF supporter myself because of their policies but putting a bullet in that scumbag was one of the best things the IRA did, no idea why you would even mention him.


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    #1318
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1641 wrote: »
    That does not work at all, Francie. SF do use the term "Ireland" but only in the context of what most would call the geographical island, or what the IRA would call the socialist republic as "established" in 1916. The quote in your link states "If you live in Ireland, we invite you to become a member of Sinn Féin today". They are not using the term to refer to this state.


    Now, Francie, point out anywhere in their literature that they do, or any reference to a quote from a Sinn Feiner that refers to our state as Ireland, Eire, or the Rep of Ireland.It is always and everytime "the south", "the 26 counties", "the Free State", etc. If it ever happens otherwise it is a slip of the tongue and not maintained. It is theologically taboo.

    Jesus, you got it bad kid!

    Read their manifesto where they talk about 'The Irish Government' 'Ireland' etc etc etc.

    Everyone of us, uses different names for the two jurisdictions. Everything from The Free State, The 6 Counties, northern Ireland, NI, The South, The North, The Nordies. Mexico etc etc. Take you pick, I use two of them frequently for NI.

    The scaremongering has reached hysteria now.


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    #1319
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Jesus, you got it bad kid!

    Read their manifesto where they talk about 'The Irish Government' 'Ireland' etc etc etc.

    Everyone of us, uses different names for the two jurisdictions. Everything from The Free State, The 6 Counties, northern Ireland, NI, The South, The North, The Nordies. Mexico etc etc. Take you pick, I use two of them frequently for NI.

    The scaremongering has reached hysteria now.

    Have never used anything other than Ireland to refer to our State. That is its name.


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    #1320
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,202 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have never used anything other than Ireland to refer to our State. That is its name.

    And the guy next to you might call it The Republic or The Republic of Ireland and a unionist might call it Eire or The Free State. I call it Ireland too and have zero issue with it.

    There is no issue when it comes to official purposes, that I can see, with SF calling it Ireland and The Irish Government. Visit their website.


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    #1321
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭1641


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Jesus, you got it bad kid!

    Read their manifesto where they talk about 'The Irish Government' 'Ireland' etc etc etc.

    Everyone of us, uses different names for the two jurisdictions. Everything from The Free State, The 6 Counties, northern Ireland, NI, The South, The North, The Nordies. Mexico etc etc. Take you pick, I use two of them frequently for NI.

    The scaremongering has reached hysteria now.


    You are not a real Shinner, Francie. The Shinners will no more use the term "Northern Ireland", for that jurisdiction than they will use "Ireland", "Eire" or "Rep of Ireland" for this one. Show me where they do? Any of the Shinner ministers in Stormont refer to themselves as "NI ministers"?

    Now that is their concern, I suppose. But why will SF not use the official names for our state as set out in the Constitution, or even the semi-official "Rep of Ireland"?

    They are proposing to be in government in our state but refuse to refer to the state by its name. Why is that?


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