Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

McMurphy

They're now worried about names.

Thread has reached pedantry level = grand master.

grayzer75

McMurphy wrote: »

They're now worried about names.

Thread has reached pedantry level = grand master.

Nordies up there and Mexicans down there......simples

IAMAMORON

McMurphy wrote: »

They're now worried about names.

Thread has reached pedantry level = grand master.

Spot on, you beat me to it.

Back to reality, who do you reckon would be a decent negotiator for the Brexit talks and trade agreement with the UK?

I want an answer.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

They're now worried about names.

Thread has reached pedantry level = grand master.

It's just an observation, is there any particular reason,is it because the IRA army council dont officially recognise the 26 counties as a country so it's not in order for Sinn Féin representatives to refer to it as anything other than 'the state'?

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

You are not a real Shinner, Francie. The Shinners will no more use the term "Northern Ireland", for that jurisdiction than they will use "Ireland", "Eire" or "Rep of Ireland" for this one. Show me where they do? Any of the Shinner ministers in Stormont refer to themselves as "NI ministers"?

Now that is their concern, I suppose. But why will SF not use the official names for our state as set out in the Constitution, or even the semi-official "Rep of Ireland"?

They are proposing to be in government in our state but refuse to refer to the state by its name. Why is that?

I did show you. On their website. 'The IRISH Government' used over and over again.

1641

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Spot on, you beat me to it.

Back to reality, who do you reckon would be a decent negotiator for the Brexit talks and trade agreement with the UK?

I want an answer.

For a start, someone representing this state and not ashamed to use the name of this state to refer to it. Not someone who can only say "speaking for the 26 counties". The "26 counties" is not a state and does not have any citizens. Ireland or Eire does.

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

It's just an observation, is there any particular reason,is it because the IRA army council dont officially recognise the 26 counties as a country so it's not in order for Sinn Féin representatives to refer to it as anything other than 'the state'?

I hear they're organising a series of public meetings where the electorate can engage with them, perhaps you might toddle along and ask this most pressing of queries to the shinner heirachy in attendance?

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

They're now worried about names.

Thread has reached pedantry level = grand master.

As are SF themselves. They've never met a conflict of ideology that didn't get a good rinsing in verbal semantics first!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-sinn-f%C3%A9in-will-not-call-the-state-by-its-name-1.4182195

McMurphy

1641 wrote: »

For a start, someone representing this state and not ashamed to use the name of this state to refer to it. Not someone who can only say "speaking for the 26 counties". The "26 counties" is not a state and does not have any citizens. Ireland or Eire does.

26 counties is just a term used to refer to one part of the island that has been partitioned.

Pedantry and faux outrage has reached dizzying heights.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

As are SF themselves

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-sinn-f%C3%A9in-will-not-call-the-state-by-its-name-1.4182195

That's an article penned by Ronan McGreevy, I don't think it differs from what I just typed out in my previous post.

IAMAMORON

I am still intrigued to know who the Army Council are "asking" the Sinn Féin party to send to London for the Brexit talks and the UK Trade agreement?

They must have a shortlist by now? Dessie? Mary? The Cork millennial?

Who is heading over ?

JohnnyFlash

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am still intrigued to know who the Army Council are "asking" the Sinn Féin party to send to London for the Brexit talks and the UK Trade agreement?

They must have a shortlist by now? Dessie? Mary? The Cork millennial?

Who is heading over ?

They’d be a bit light on ‘top table talent’ to be honest.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did show you. On their website. 'The IRISH Government' used over and over again.

Theological pedantry at its highest as Sinn Fein dances on the head of a needle to avoid using the official name/designation of the state.

Clearly it is a matter of fundamental importance to them. They will find every (dis)ingenious way to get around it. O'Broin even wrote a book about the solutions to housing in this state without ever naming the state. He calls it "Southern Ireland". This is clearly no minor issue for them.

Of course, according to the IRA, the Republic of Ireland (or Irish Republic) was founded in 1916 and, due to the betrayal of politicians who sold it out in the Treaty, its true government is the Army Council. This is the theological core of the Sinn Fein dance around naming this state. It is their Transubstantiation. Shinners will not use the name of this state until they are given permission to do so by "long term republicans" (if that ever happens).

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

That's an article penned by Ronan McGreevy, I don't think it differs from what I just typed out in my previous post.

It's around the very same topic and how people struggle with naming things.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

26 counties is just a term used to refer to one part of the island that has been partitioned.

Pedantry and faux outrage has reached dizzying heights.

Why is 'state' used? That's what I asked
It has to be because it's a workaround instead of using the official U.N name of the country
I said it was an observation not an outrage
Why do people have to be so angry round here

On an interesting related note,met Éireann never mention northern Ireland, yet it is clear on tv or radio forecasts when they say north east,they mean Antrim and Down aswell as Louth
Sometimes they call it the far north or northeast

is_that_so

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They’d be a bit light on ‘top table talent’ to be honest.

True but the Bee Gee would be available! TBF it's about the PS wonks, not the talent at the table.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

Theological pedantry at its highest as Sinn Fein dances on the head of a needle to avoid using the official name/designation of the state.

Clearly it is a matter of fundamental importance to them. They will find every (dis)ingenious way to get around it. O'Broin even wrote a book about the solutions to housing in this state without ever naming the state. He calls it "Southern Ireland". This is clearly no minor issue for them.

Of course, according to the IRA, the Republic of Ireland (or Irish Republic) was founded in 1916 and, due to the betrayal of politicians who sold it out in the Treaty, its true government is the Army Council. This is the theological core of the Sinn Fein dance around naming this state. It is their Transubstantiation. Shinners will not use the name of this state until they are given permission to do so by "long term republicans" (if that ever happens).

You asked what would they do in official circumstances. You got your answer. They have no problem using the name Ireland - or The Irish Government - Taoiseach in an official capacity etc

As shown also they are numerous names people use in everyday chat and conversation.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You asked what would they do in official circumstances. You got your answer. They have no problem using the name Ireland - or The Irish Government - Taoiseach in an official capacity etc

As shown also they are numerous names people use in everyday chat and conversation.

Sorry, Francie, where has this been shown? "Irish government" does not involve calling the state by its name. I know they will dance around trying to pretend this is not a major isssue for them. It clearly is. Show me where in their documentation (or interviews,or public addresses) they refer to this state by its name. Please?

They never use "Ireland" to refer to this state.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

Sorry, Francie, where has this been shown? "Irish government" does not involve calling the state by its name. I know they will dance around trying to pretend this is not a major isssue for them. It clearly is. Show me where in their documentation (or interviews,or public addresses) they refer to this state by its name. Please?

They never use "Ireland" to refer to this state.

Jaysis, it isn't hard. Two seconds or less on google. Matt Carthy in speech:

In 1973 Ireland joined the European Economic Community (EEC), what was ostensibly a free trade organisation. Today we are part of a political union where many of those in key positions of power aspire to create a federal state with not only a common currency but also tax raising powers and an EU army. Among these is the incoming president of the EU Commission, Ursula Von der Leyen.

smurgen

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am still intrigued to know who the Army Council are "asking" the Sinn Féin party to send to London for the Brexit talks and the UK Trade agreement?

They must have a shortlist by now? Dessie? Mary? The Cork millennial?

Who is heading over ?

Apt username is apt.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jaysis, it isn't hard. Two seconds or less on google. Matt Carthy in speech:

If it is not hard to find then I am surprised that is the best you can come up with. Ireland did join in 1973 - both ROI and NI. So they can use it in that context. They are fond of trying to create those illusions.
But if it that easy to find, it should be in of their public addresses, publications, etc. Right? Using the Ireland or Eire or ROI to specifically refer to the state as defined in our Constitution?
Or can you find it in relation to Northern Ireland? Not my primary concern but it would be some indication that they do not have a profound theological taboo.

smurgen

Sounds like Drew Harris comments going down like a lead balloon and people starting to ask questions are tenability of his role now given the obvious political bias. FG go through commissioners faster than trump goes through his secretary of state.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Sounds like Drew Harris comments going down like a lead balloon and people starting to ask questions are tenability of his role now given the obvious political bias. FG go through commissioners faster than trump goes through his secretary of state.

Perhaps in a Sinn Fein echo chamber this is so, but there hasn't been the slightest evidence of Drew Harris' comments going down like a lead balloon anywhere else.

JohnnyFlash

smurgen wrote: »

Sounds like Drew Harris comments going down like a lead balloon and people starting to ask questions are tenability of his role now given the obvious political bias. FG go through commissioners faster than trump goes through his secretary of state.

Who is asking questions? A load of lads with badly translated Irish names on Twitter doesn’t really count.

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

Sounds like Drew Harris comments going down like a lead balloon and people starting to ask questions are tenability of his role now given the obvious political bias. FG go through commissioners faster than trump goes through his secretary of state.

Do you have a credible link to this? Would I be right in assuming calls for his departure are from those with connections to SF?

blanch152

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Who is asking questions? A load of lads with badly translated Irish names on Twitter doesn’t really count.

I haven't seen that poison on Twitter yet, thank God.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Perhaps in a Sinn Fein echo chamber this is so, but there hasn't been the slightest evidence of Drew Harris' comments going down like a lead balloon anywhere else.

"People Before Profit TD Richard Boyd-Barrett claimed Mr Harris’s comments on Friday were “an inappropriate political intervention”."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/parties-to-continue-talks-with-sinn-f%C3%A9in-despite-drew-harris-s-ira-comments-1.4181138

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

"People Before Profit TD Richard Boyd-Barrett claimed Mr Harris’s comments on Friday were “an inappropriate political intervention”."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/parties-to-continue-talks-with-sinn-f%C3%A9in-despite-drew-harris-s-ira-comments-1.4181138

Ah there we go then, that's Harris gone!

quokula

smurgen wrote: »

Sounds like Drew Harris comments going down like a lead balloon and people starting to ask questions are tenability of his role now given the obvious political bias. FG go through commissioners faster than trump goes through his secretary of state.

The irony of a party trying to undermine the Gardai in an attempt to cover up their own connections to criminality, then somehow trying to paint the other parties as Trump-like.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

"People Before Profit TD Richard Boyd-Barrett claimed Mr Harris’s comments on Friday were “an inappropriate political intervention”."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/parties-to-continue-talks-with-sinn-f%C3%A9in-despite-drew-harris-s-ira-comments-1.4181138

Oh, I thought you meant something significant.