Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

realdanbreen

Part of the reason for SF's extra votes is because Gerry Adams is no longer SF President. The irony is that if someone in SF had the balls to oppose him over the last 20 years they might well be in power by now.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

The best indicator will be the council elections in 2024

Or another election this year...or the collapse of a three party coalition.

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well as said after the election, there isn't a scenario were SF can lose really. Being the main opposition party is a platform for growth.

Perhaps although I can't see FF/FG Etc being as complacent about SF from now on. Expect a lot of digging(litteraly!) over the next few years.

facehugger99

realdanbreen wrote: »

Perhaps although I can't see FF/FG Etc being as complacent about SF from now on. Expect a lot of digging(litteraly!) over the next few years.

One would also hope the media scrutinises them to a far greater degree going forward.

It is outrageous the easy ride they have been given in the last few years by the left-leaning media, led by RTE.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or another election this year...or the collapse of a three party coalition.

That would be wishful thinking though wouldn't it
5 years would be a bit of a nightmare I'd expect fo SF if too much progress was made,I understand that

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

That would be wishful thinking though wouldn't it
5 years would be a bit of a nightmare I'd expect fo SF if too much progress was made,I understand that

I don't think a 5 year programme will be agreed tbh. 3 max.

McMurphy

facehugger99 wrote: »

One would also hope the media scrutinises them to a far greater degree going forward.

It is outrageous the easy ride they have been given in the last few years by the left-leaning media, led by RTE.

Yeah I for one definitely didn't see any stories scrutinising SF anywhere in the last ten years.

Listen to yourself for Christ sake.

quokula

facehugger99 wrote: »

One would also hope the media scrutinises them to a far greater degree going forward.

It is outrageous the easy ride they have been given in the last few years by the left-leaning media, led by RTE.

I don't think the RTE are left leaning or intentionally gave SF an easy ride. They just haven't been scrutinised because most people believed their complete unfitness for government and their shady nature was plain as day without needing to be highlighted.

Sadly in the world of social media bubbles where people get given "alternative facts" that is no longer the case, so hopefully there will be greater efforts to educate people about who SF really are ahead of the next election.

McMurphy

quokula wrote: »

I don't think the RTE are left leaning or intentionally gave SF an easy ride. They just haven't been scrutinised because most people believed their complete unfitness for government and their shady nature was plain as day without needing to be highlighted.

Sadly in the world of social media bubbles where people get given "alternative facts" that is no longer the case, so hopefully there will be greater efforts to educate people about who SF really are ahead of the next election.

They tried that in the last election campaign, and remind me how that went ?

I wonder has Michael or Leo been in touch with the Quinn family post election btw?

Elmer Blooker

McMurphy wrote: »

I wonder has Michael or Leo been in touch with the Quinn family post election btw?

...... or RTE

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

They tried that in the last election campaign, and remind me how that went ?

I wonder has Michael or Leo been in touch with the Quinn family post election btw?

I'd say Michael will be desperately trying to stave off any contagion from Emma Dempsey and her brother Shane's campaign, which is finally shining a spotlight on the Ceann Comhairle.

While Leo will be doing the same with Heather Humphrey's 'letter' travails.

Too busy too busy!

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think a 5 year programme will be agreed tbh. 3 max.

I think if things are going well,they'd be stupid not to make maximum use of the constitutional timeframe available,so yeah it might be 3 years ,review,2 years or two 2's and a one
I'd imagine 4 and one

jm08

Mortelaro wrote: »

I think if things are going well,they'd be stupid not to make maximum use of the constitutional timeframe available,so yeah it might be 3 years ,review,2 years or two 2's and a one
I'd imagine 4 and one

The only reason the last one lasted so long was because of Brexit negotiations. Now that the WA has been agreed, it is out of Ireland's hands so collapsing the Gov. won't be such a big deal.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair enough. But so far, it is the only indication we have and is better - way better than 'I feel it in my waters' type opinion.

Still, its has undeniably been informative to many that an SF/IRA member doesnt change its khakis. Had they not been quite so brainless, they probably could have stayed under the public perception radar a little better. But chucky ar la, and Come out the Black and Tans, etc, did set the alarm bells rining. That it a matter of continued debate in the media, the normal parties have stuck to their guns (one for the SF/IRA folk there) about not going into coalition or support of a terrorist organisation, and that the publicly stated and official intelligence of AGS and PSNI that SF/IRA are one and the same and that the Army Council of an illegal terrorist organisation oversees the political operations wing of itself, has left no doubt.
The votes that drifted in a few weeks ago, will drift out just as fast, as that reality sinks in.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Still, its has undeniably been informative to many that an SF/IRA member doesnt change its khakis. Had they not been quite so brainless, they probably could have stayed under the public perception radar a little better. But chucky ar la, and Come out the Black and Tans, etc, did set the alarm bells rining. That it a matter of continued debate in the media, the normal parties have stuck to their guns (one for the SF/IRA folk there) about not going into coalition or support of a terrorist organisation, and that the publicly stated and official intelligence of AGS and PSNI that SF/IRA are one and the same and that the Army Council of an illegal terrorist organisation oversees the political operations wing of itself, has left no doubt.
The votes that drifted in a few weeks ago, will drift out just as fast, as that reality sinks in.

It set the alarm bells ringing only where there has always been one ringing. Seems to me a lot of people no longer care enough to allow it to influence them, much to the bewilderment of those who keep trying to set the alarm off.

Sinbad_NI

Surely any organisation that's being linked in this way would take the accusers to court to clear their name on defamation grounds.

The silence is deafening.

Mortelaro

jm08 wrote: »

The only reason the last one lasted so long was because of Brexit negotiations. Now that the WA has been agreed, it is out of Ireland's hands so collapsing the Gov. won't be such a big deal.

Wishful thinking to be honest
Whatever new government comes in will be determined to work until results are felt
I'd expect Sláinte care will do a lot of the heavy lifting for them in health
They'll probably use the committee system more to get cross party consensus
A lot of the housing problems just needed a few more years to be honest as supply being greater than demand works wonders on price and rental
Theres already a mortgage price war
Add to that a bit of cherry picking of left ideas eg a rent freeze for 2 years and you've got the stuff of Sinn fein nightmares, protest vote neutralising stable government that pleases the masses and excludes SF

Interesting times ahead alright and hopefully good for all

McMurphy

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Surely any organisation that's being linked in this way would take the accusers to court to clear their name on defamation grounds.

The silence is deafening.

Two way street tbh, the narrative on boards is usually along the lines of "how do you prove a negative"? So with that in mind, how do you propose they prove an army council - they say doesn't exist is not directing the party?

However, the reluctance of Drew Harris to provide evidence of something he says exists and what they're doing is also deafening.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

However, the reluctance of Drew Harris to provide evidence of something he says exists and what they're doing is also deafening.

Which police services in the world release the detailed work that goes into their security assessments?
Besides he (and even the oscar winning script writers have this) was only stating the obvious to everyone else
Highlighting it is what a clever journalist did by asking a question that's going to come up a lot

Sinbad_NI

McMurphy wrote: »

Two way street tbh, the narrative on boards is usually along the lines of "how do you prove a negative"? So with that in mind, how do you propose they prove an army council - they say doesn't exist is not directing the party?

However, the reluctance of Drew Harris to provide evidence of something he says exists and what they're doing is also deafening.

I guess many of them won't have had great experiences in court rooms over the years either.

jm08

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Surely any organisation that's being linked in this way would take the accusers to court to clear their name on defamation grounds.

The silence is deafening.

Not sure who or what is being defamed.

The assessment was done for the DUP in 2015 before they would go into government with Sinn Fein. It satisfied the DUP at the time for them to go into Gov. with Sinn Fein.

The other thing which seems to have got lost somewhere is what that report said is that the PIRA members believe that Sinn Fein leadership does what the IRA Army Council says.

That is just their belief - that doesn't make it so. The report says* that the PIRA were only involved in a political process now anyway. Surely that is a good thing rather than excluding them so that they too join in the dissident republican movement.

Edit: *Actually, I think it was the Independent Assessment Board said that, not the report.

Sinbad_NI

A political party trying to appeal to the masses, will know that many many more votes will fall their way if they truly become mainstream.

Bring linked in any way to the PIRA can't be good business for them.

If it wasn't true I believe they'd be fighting it.

jm08

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

A political party trying to appeal to the masses, will know that many many more votes will fall their way if they truly become mainstream.

Bring linked in any way to the PIRA can't be good business for them.

If it wasn't true I believe they'd be fighting it.

DUP links to loyalist groups like UVF, etc. doesn't seem to do them any harm in Northern Ireland and they get little/no criticism for it.

Links to the PIRA haven't been bad for business for Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland either.

How do you explain the people of Northern Ireland voting mainly for the 2 parties that have these paramilitary links? Is there something wrong with them?

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Which police services in the world release the detailed work that goes into their security assessments?
Besides he (and even the oscar winning script writers have this) was only stating the obvious to everyone else
Highlighting it is what a clever journalist did by asking a question that's going to come up a lot

So, Harris was asked for his opinion, on his former employers opinion, and he agreed with that opinion, of which he was part and parcel of forging the opinion?

Man agrees with his own opinion - shock horror.

RobMc59

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Still, its has undeniably been informative to many that an SF/IRA member doesnt change its khakis. Had they not been quite so brainless, they probably could have stayed under the public perception radar a little better. But chucky ar la, and Come out the Black and Tans, etc, did set the alarm bells rining. That it a matter of continued debate in the media, the normal parties have stuck to their guns (one for the SF/IRA folk there) about not going into coalition or support of a terrorist organisation, and that the publicly stated and official intelligence of AGS and PSNI that SF/IRA are one and the same and that the Army Council of an illegal terrorist organisation oversees the political operations wing of itself, has left no doubt.
The votes that drifted in a few weeks ago, will drift out just as fast, as that reality sinks in.

As a british person I was horrified that SF were able to dupe people into voting for them by making promises which they would probably be unable to fulfill-it shows the lengths mary Lou mcDonald will go to in her self serving drive for power-she will step on anyone in her own climb to the top and whatever SF say,they will always be linked to the PIRA.

McMurphy

RobMc59 wrote: »

As a british person I was horrified that SF were able to dupe people into voting for them by making promises which they would probably be unable to fulfill-it shows the lengths mary Lou mcDonald will go to in her self serving drive for power-she will step on anyone in her own climb to the top and whatever SF say,they will always be linked to the PIRA.

Almost every party in Ireland will always be linked to the IRA in some shape or form Rob FFS.

What would you propose MLMD do, deny there were any links?

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

As a british person I was horrified that SF were able to dupe people into voting for them by making promises which they would probably be unable to fulfill-it shows the lengths mary Lou mcDonald will go to in her self serving drive for power-she will step on anyone in her own climb to the top and whatever SF say,they will always be linked to the PIRA.

If you knew and understood the history of the foundation of the Irish State (War of Independence, Signing of the Treaty, Partition, Civil War) you might understand that people need to move on from the past eventually.

Sinbad_NI

jm08 wrote: »

DUP links to loyalist groups like UVF, etc. doesn't seem to do them any harm in Northern Ireland and they get little/no criticism for it.

Links to the PIRA haven't been bad for business for Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland either.

How do you explain the people of Northern Ireland voting mainly for the 2 parties that have these paramilitary links? Is there something wrong with them?

SF support surged when they stopped fighting. To move to the next level they need to cut the age old ties.

DUP support was/is the unionist response as nationalists moved to the extreme and away from SDLP. Unionists abandoned UUP as a kneejerk result.

Do you think SF would get more votes by being connected to the RA or not?

James Brown

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Surely any organisation that's being linked in this way would take the accusers to court to clear their name on defamation grounds.

The silence is deafening.

Who have they accused? All I read was yet another Drew Harris confirmation he agrees there is still a group of people who he would consider IRA. Then the article, as with others goes on to talk about criminality in general and the Lyra McKee killing. It might give the impression it's the IRA but doesn't say so. And Harris does not say any current SF members are in any current IRA.
It's spin. There's nothing to sue anyone over.

I would be very surprised if there were no ex/former IRA people in Sinn Fein. Eventually as the years pass people will care less and less. As with FG who when they started likely had fascists in their rank and FF many of the same kind of people SF did/do.

dxhound2005

jm08 wrote: »

DUP links to loyalist groups like UVF, etc. doesn't seem to do them any harm in Northern Ireland and they get little/no criticism for it.

Links to the PIRA haven't been bad for business for Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland either.

How do you explain the people of Northern Ireland voting mainly for the 2 parties that have these paramilitary links? Is there something wrong with them?

The security assessment has plenty of details of the UVF, UDA etc. The problem with the IRA is their close political involvement in SF. The assessment does not make that link between the Loyalist paramilitaries and the DUP. I think it is no coincidence that SF are by far the richest party in the North. The paramilitaries are all gangsters who should have no say in any normal party. Let them stick to their racketeering and drug dealing and leave politics to the politicians.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/469548/Paramilitary_Groups_in_Northern_Ireland_-_20_Oct_2015.pdf

The annex at the end of the document might be of interest to those who want the security services to release their evidence.