Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So it's ok to endorse the influence of the IRA in one jurisdiction you have responsibilities in and not in another?

Got ya!

No you didn't get me...
You dont seem to get that it is accepted that the IRA's influence in the north is accepted
Or possibly you ignored my explanation as to why,because that episodes Emmy award winning script hasnt arrived yet

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

No you didn't get me...
You dont seem to get that it is accepted that the IRA's influence in the north is accepted

Sorry...where is IRA influence as an organised force (and having an Army council with an overarching strategy is organised in anybody's book) 'accepted in NI'.

*You can drop the juvenile attempts to flame the thread too, if you wouldn't mind.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

You dont seem to get (again) that accepting the GFA and the special position of NI and not wanting the IRA deciding government policies can be mutually held positions by voters in the Republic part of the island

This too will change probably as the living memories of the troubles die away
The far left ideology of the IRA's socialist Republic isnt going to get popular though at any time
Too many people are ambitious for their pockets

Members of and affiliates of the IRA have been working with SF on policy and since the GFA are likely in SF working on policy. I'd expect as much. What's the problem?
If the IRA were an active terrorist organisation that shunned the GFA, then there'd be a problem.
It's inferred scaremongering to suggest anything nefarious IMO. And it's hypocritical of both FF and FG to try use that for not working with them while patting themselves on the back for helping convince others to.

I can't see SF getting a majority anytime soon. However, the living memory thing is already an irrelevance to the people gave them a vote. People and issues are complex, people know this.

dxhound2005

jm08 wrote: »

Sinn Fein have plenty of legitimate ways of raising money (i.e., fundraisers in New York that Trump attended for example). They also take money from their public representatives, not to mention being willed large amounts of money from disaffected British citizens. I don't think even any of the dissident republicans are involved in drug dealing (more likely to kneecap drug dealers) that seems to be the money earner for the loyalist paramiltaries.

I don't know whether to believe SF and Left politicians on this. A few years ago I checked the SIPO records to see if they had any details, but I could not find any. Under €1,500 donation to a party does not have to be reported, but politicians giving up half their salaries would be well over that.

I see it as a major downside in politics. Very few people, less than 600 put themselves up for the 160 seats going in the election. Even worse than that, there were only just about 2 candidates on average for the 949 council seats last year. I really can't see that many suitable people wanting to stand for Sinn Fein, if their Dail salary would be effectively around 30K net.

On the other hand the evidence points to Gerry Adams not having much money. He ran into difficulties paying the mortgage on one of his houses. It would be an interesting conversation with the financial institution, telling them that he has to pay donations to his party, instead of paying his mortgage.

https://sipo.ie/acts-and-codes/guidelines/donations/index.xml

https://donegalnews.com/2013/02/gerry-adams-remortgages-gortahork-property/

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry...where is IRA influence as an organised force (and having an Army council with an overarching strategy is organised in anybody's book) 'accepted in NI'.

A blind eye is turned by unionists and others for a start who I presume accept the PSNI analysis
Its called real politik
In the Republic part of the island though,theres no need as we dont have the d'hondt system
We are a Democracy

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

I can't see SF getting a majority anytime soon. However, the living memory thing is already an irrelevance to the people gave them a vote. People and issues are complex, people know this.

You are right,its probably not an issue for the protest vote and that is new
I can see it being brought up until the current generation of former active service volunteers shuffle off this mortal coil of old age
I'm only pointing out the reasoning here
Personally once its transparent it doesn't bother me who advises SF
Certain policies would of course just as certain figures advising would others

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

A blind eye is turned by unionists and others for a start who I presume accept the PSNI analysis
Its called real politik
In the Republic part of the island though,theres no need as we dont have the d'hondt system
We are a Democracy

A blind eye?

In my eye, as they say.

Unionists went mental when the IRA were ignored by the IRC report.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A blind eye?

In my eye, as they say.

Unionists went mental when the IRA were ignored by the IRC report.

Yes a blind eye to the PSNI assessment of who runs SF
That's why they are in the regional assembly up there,sometimes styled as government

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

A blind eye is turned by unionists and others for a start who I presume accept the PSNI analysis
Its called real politik
In the Republic part of the island though,theres no need as we dont have the d'hondt system
We are a Democracy

I can't see the DUP and chums 'turning a blind eye' to that. Also I know there's no strong history in that regard but the north does have a form of democracy.

Mortelaro wrote: »

You are right,its probably not an issue for the protest vote and that is new
I can see it being brought up until the current generation of former active service volunteers shuffle off this mortal coil of old age
I'm only pointing out the reasoning here
Personally once its transparent it doesn't bother me who advises SF
Certain policies would of course just as certain figures advising would others

Every vote not for the sitting government can be called a protest vote. What ever makes things feel better.
The deal was Harris inferred the IRA were active and dictating to SF. That's a world away from former IRA people being involved with politics through involvement with SF.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes a blind eye to the PSNI assessment of who runs SF
That's why they are in the regional assembly up there,sometimes styled as government

This is gas. Did you read the report?

The PSNI made no such claim.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is gas. Did you read the report?

The PSNI made no such claim.

I'm not talking about the report you mention
I'm at all times referring to the Garda (and PSNI) view of who controls Sinn Féin according to what was reported from Templemore
Remember deflect away as much as you like,I'll at least try to stick to the thread topic
I know you're angry at the notion that parties who got a majority of the 1st preferences on feb 8th probably will make good on their promises not to bring SF into government in the Republic part of the island for the reasons stated
But c'est la vie

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

I'm not talking about the report you mention
I'm at all times referring to the Garda (and PSNI) view of who controls Sinn Féin according to what was reported from Templemore
Remember deflect away as much as you like,I'll at least try to stick to the thread topic
I know you're angry at the notion that parties who got a majority of the 1st preferences on feb 8th probably will make good on their promises not to bring SF into government in the Republic part of the island for the reasons stated
But c'est la vie

Hold on there, you were literally talking about the unionists turning a blind eye a few posts back. Now you are trying to claim such talk is off topic and deflection?

Now you're just getting bratty because you painted yourself into a corner.

Just keep telling yourself 'Protest vote!'.

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

Every vote not for the sitting government can be called a protest vote. What ever makes things feel better.
The deal was Harris inferred the IRA were active and dictating to SF. That's a world away from former IRA people being involved with politics through involvement with SF.

No
It's the SF view versus the Gardaí's view

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I'm not talking about the report you mention
I'm at all times referring to the Garda (and PSNI) view of who controls Sinn Féin according to what was reported from Templemore

I am talking about the 2015 PSNI report that Harris referenced.

Where in that does the PSNI say SF is controlled by the IRA?

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

Hold on there, you were literally talking about the unionists turning a blind eye a few posts back. Now you are trying to claim such talk is off topic and deflection?

Now you're just getting bratty because you painted yourself into a corner.

No
I was asked why the IRA directing SF is not a problem in NI but is in the Republic part of the island
I answered
That is on topic

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

No
I was asked why the IRA directing SF is not a problem in NI but is in the Republic part of the island
I answered
That is on topic

But they're not. Who said they were? FG and that. They hardly count. It's just scaremongering from a third tier party.
Former members, sure, very likely.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am talking about the 2015 PSNI report that Harris referenced.

As you know he mentioned it in a different context

Where in that does the PSNI say SF is controlled by the IRA?

You are reporting it wrong
His comments on the IRC were separate to the PSNI assessment
Two different scopes

See the attached

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

But they're not. Who said they were? FG and that. They hardly count. It's just scaremongering from a third tier party.
Former members, sure, very likely.

The Garda commissioner said so when asked by a reporter
Leo Vradakar as Taoiseach already has sight of that Garda assessment or at least he should
It's not FG,but you know that

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

As you know he mentioned it in a different context


You are reporting it wrong
His comments on the IRC were separate to the PSNI assessment
Two different scopes

See the attached

Some PIRA members believe the IRA Council oversees SF with an overarching strategy.

That is what the report says. Nothing else. When questioned by the BBC PSNI Chief Hamilton refused to say if the Army Council existed at all.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some PIRA members believe the IRA Council oversees SF with an overarching strategy.

That is what the report says. Nothing else. When questioned by the BBC PSNI Chief Hamilton refused to say if the Army Council existed at all.

MLM has said the IRA still exists though, and so by implication, we can assume so does its army council. And she should know. And if she says so, then I dont see why we should question the view of AGS and PSNI that it exists.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some PIRA members believe the IRA Council oversees SF with an overarching strategy.

That is what the report says. Nothing else. When questioned by the BBC PSNI Chief Hamilton refused to say if the Army Council existed at all.

I'm talking about a PSNI assessment referenced separately by Harris
I've said this twice or three times and showed you where and how he said it
Why are you persisting with something different

Garda and PSNI security assessments are a different scope and not for our eyes
What you are repeating from is not the same thing
It's a GFA peace process specific scoping tool
Two different scopes

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

MLM has said the IRA still exists though, and so by implication, we can assume so does its army council. And she should know. And if she says so, then I dont see why we should question the view of AGS and PSNI that it exists.

MLMD wrote:

Asked if the IRA still exists even as political organisation, Ms McDonald said: "No it does not, so far as I am aware, no it does not.

"The IRA have gone away. The IRA will not be returning. The days of conflict are past."

#

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0221/1116746-garda-commissioner-sinn-fein/

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I'm talking about a PSNI assessment referenced separately by Harris
I've said this twice or three times and showed you where and how he said it
Why are you persisting with something different

Garda and PSNI security assessments are a different scope and not for our eyes
What you are repeating from is not the same thing
It's a GFA peace process specific scoping tool
Two different scopes

Please link to where the Gardai/PSNI say that the 'IRA controls SF'

If they said it, you will be able to quote the text.

Reading between lines from a biased point of view, does not suffice here.

dxhound2005

so/as far as I am aware

spoken used when you are saying something that you think is true, although you might be wrong because you do not know all the facts

As far as I am aware, they are a happily married couple.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Please link to where the Gardai/PSNI say that the 'IRA controls SF'

If they said it, you will be able to quote the text.

Reading between lines from a biased point of view, does not suffice here.

4th time I think...
Harris said it
He mentioned the PSNI assessment separately
You do realise that he was talking about 2 different assessments with 2 different scopes

I posted an attachment quoting him where both scopes were clearly seperated in what he said,the psni security assessment and the IRC

You can run around that all you like but its there

maccored

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

But you do trust SF. Are they less politically motivated?

what? Why should SF prove a negative to gain your trust? Thats a bit impossible surely

FG and FF reckon SF are controlled by the IRA ... they havent any proof for it so why should anyone believe them?

Fann Linn

Mortelaro wrote: »

4th time I think...
Harris said it
He mentioned the PSNI assessment separately
You do realise that he was talking about 2 different assessments with 2 different scopes

I posted an attachment quoting him where both scopes were clearly seperated in what he said,the psni security assessment and the IRC

You can run around that all you like but its there

Was that the reports which were debunked last week on TWIP and then classed as 'hearsay' by O Cuiv during the week.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

4th time I think...
Harris said it
He mentioned the PSNI assessment separately
You do realise that he was talking about 2 different assessments with 2 different scopes

I posted an attachment quoting him where both scopes were clearly seperated in what he said,the psni security assessment and the IRC

You can run around that all you like but its there

The latest IRC report doesn't mention the IRA at all...nothing.

The PSNI report says this only:

Some PIRA members believe the IRA Council oversees SF with an overarching strategy.

When explicitly asked in 2015 the Chief Constable of the PSNI would not say one way or another that the Army Council existed.

So you have not shown where the PSNI or Garda have said that the 'IRA control SF'.

You are reading between lines to come to that view. I.E. Bull****ting.

FrancieBrady

Fann Linn wrote: »

Was that the reports which were debunked last week on TWIP and then classed as 'hearsay' by O Cuiv during the week.

The poster cannot come up with a single piece of text were the PSNI or Gardai have said that 'the IRA control SF'.

Why? Because they haven't said that.

maccored

maccored wrote: »

what? Why should SF prove a negative to gain your trust? Thats a bit impossible surely

FG and FF reckon SF are controlled by the IRA ... they havent any proof for it so why should anyone believe them?

Why do you think they don't have proof?