Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The poster cannot come up with a single piece of text were the PSNI or Gardai have said that 'the IRA control SF'.

Why? Because they haven't said that.

You are continuing to not accept that national security assessments contain or may contain more information than what's provided in or for the IRC
That's a perfectly understandable point of view when youd prefer your party would not have these things lit up in the way they were in recent weeks
I'd be the same if a supporter
For what its worth

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do you think they don't have proof?

They have proof that an illegal organisation is operating, and directing a political party, yet they haven't made any arrests or charged anyone?

So they're failing in their duties so, is that it?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

You are continuing to not accept that national security assessments contain or may contain more information than what's provided in or for the IRC
That's a perfectly understandable point of view when youd prefer your party would not have these things lit up in the way they were in recent weeks
I'd be the same if a supporter
For what its worth

You can't find any text or quote that is the 'PSNI or Gardai saying the IRA control SF'.

It's not hard to admit to be wrong M.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

They have proof that an illegal organisation is operating, and directing a political party, yet they haven't made any arrests or charged anyone?

So they're failing in their duties so, is that it?

An Garda Siochana do not have jurisdiction in northern Ireland.
Members of Sinn Fein in the Republic taking orders from someone in the north dies not make them guilty of an offence.
I'm sure you know that.

Fann Linn

Mortelaro wrote: »

You are continuing to not accept that national security assessments contain or may contain more information than what's provided in or for the IRC
That's a perfectly understandable point of view when youd prefer your party would not have these things lit up in the way they were in recent weeks
I'd be the same if a supporter
For what its worth

And Arlene Foster, who sat on a bus which was bombed by the IRA and whose father was shot by the IRA is willing to work with SF, when the PSNI, allegedly said that the IRA were pulling the levers in the SF party.
Do you really believe she would do that?

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

An Garda Siochana do not have jurisdiction in northern Ireland.
Members of Sinn Fein in the Republic taking orders from someone in the north dies not make them guilty of an offence.
I'm sure you know that.

Is this a new IRA that only operate in one jurisdiction on the island, and further to that, I was referencing the PSNI anyway.

I repeat, why haven't they arrested or charged people with provisional IRA membership if they have proof of it, and if they have proof, but haven't arrested or charged those that they have the proof on, are they not failing in their duties?

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

And Arlene Foster, who sat on a bus which was bombed by the IRA and whose father was shot by the IRA is willing to work with SF, when the PSNI, allegedly said that the IRA were pulling the levers in the SF party.
Do you really believe she would do that?

In order for peace in Northern Ireland a lot of things were put in the past, or 'forgotten'
That's the price of peace.
The IRA took a long time to agree to forgo violence. It was 2005, I think, or 2006 before they put violence behind them.
Everyone involved in the peace process had to accept what the other side committed to.
That's what they did.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Is this a new IRA that only operate in one jurisdiction on the island, and further to that, I was referencing the PSNI anyway.

I repeat, why haven't they arrested or charged people with provisional IRA membership if they have proof of it, and if they have proof, but haven't arrested or charged those that they have the proof on, are they not failing in their duties?

Who do you suggest they arrest?
There have been many many people arrested in the last 20 years for membership in the south.
In fact, the Special Criminal Court had to open a second court because they were so busy.
An Garda Siochana don't arrest people who don't live in this jurisdiction for membership, how would they?

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

Who do you suggest they arrest?
There have been many many people arrested in the last 20 years for membership in the south.
In fact, the Special Criminal Court had to open a second court because they were so busy.
An Garda Siochana don't arrest people who don't live in this jurisdiction for membership, how would they?

So SF members the length and breath of this country are being controlled by IRA members in the north, who cannot come into this jurisdiction for fear of arrest, presumably?

Is this the story now?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So SF members the length and breath of this country are being controlled by IRA members in the north, who cannot come into this jurisdiction for fear of arrest, presumably?

Is this the story now?

No.
Snore.
Nobody said that was the story now....

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Snore.
Nobody said that was the story now....

Well could you tell us your story? (they are hugely entertaining story's to read as they run out of logic.)

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well could you tell us your story? (they are hugely entertaining story's to read as they run out of logic.)

I don't have a story Francis
What's your story?

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't have a story Francis
What's your story?

You do. You claimed 'members of SF in the republic are taking orders from NI'.

How do you know this?

James Brown

bubblypop wrote: »

In order for peace in Northern Ireland a lot of things were put in the past, or 'forgotten'
That's the price of peace.
The IRA took a long time to agree to forgo violence. It was 2005, I think, or 2006 before they put violence behind them.
Everyone involved in the peace process had to accept what the other side committed to.
That's what they did.

The whole point was an end to violence and the groups concerned disbanding. All you are describing is an all round cease fire with the like of the DUP pretending there's no IRA.....because? It doesn't make sense.

maccored

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do you think they don't have proof?

Have you seen any? Why havent they arrested SF members yet to help with enquiries?

Dont bother answering - you been hoodwinked into believing that SF are ran by a group of PIRA members in Belfast. I think thats the stupidest thingg ive ever heard - but each to their own.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You do. You claimed 'members of SF in the republic are taking orders from NI'.

How do you know this?

Maybe you saw the reports where the commissioner of AGS, stated he agrees with a report from the PSNI that states the army council of the IRA direct Sinn Fein?
I'm not sure what your issue is here?

maccored

maccored wrote: »

Have you seen any? Why havent they arrested SF members yet to help with enquiries?

Dont bother answering - you been hoodwinked into believing that SF are ran by a group of PIRA members in Belfast. I think thats the stupidest thingg ive ever heard - but each to their own.

Why would they arrest members of Sinn Fein?
Sinn Fein is not an unauthorised organisation

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe you saw the reports where the commissioner of AGS, stated he agrees with a report from the PSNI that states the army council of the IRA direct Sinn Fein?
I'm not sure what your issue is here?

Read the fecking report would you. The 'PSNI' state no such thing.

'Some members of PIRA believe that. That is all the report says.
When interviewed by the BBC in 2015 the Chief Constable refused to say if the Army Council existed or not.

So NOWHERE has the PSNI said such a thing

maccored

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would they arrest members of Sinn Fein?
Sinn Fein is not an unauthorised organisation

but they are reporting to terrorists or something blah blah blah aren't they?

In the real world the report said ex provos were now working politically for peaceful ends, but we not talking the real world here - we're talking the makey uppey world where you dont need to prove anything because you know what? SF are ran by the PIRA. Or so you say.

holyhead

I'm in my mid 40's so I remember the time when if you heard Belfast on the radio you assumed their was a shooting. Indeed most news from the North in the late 80's and early 90's seemed to centre around violence. A lot of those who voted for SF are in the 20-35 age group. They know of SF as helping to bring about peace in N.I. through the GFA and for sharing power in the North. They see, rightly/wrongly SF as a definitive alternative to FF/FG. They believe that SF can help fix the health service, provide better public services and help improve the housing situation.

maccored

maccored wrote: »

but they are reporting to terrorists or something blah blah blah aren't they?

In the real world the report said ex provos were now working politically for peaceful ends, but we not talking the real world here - we're talking the makey uppey world where you dont need to prove anything because you know what? SF are ran by the PIRA. Or so you say.

In the real world people need to commit an offence before they are arrested.
Sinn Fein is not an unauthorised organisation, therefore they have not committed a crime of membership of an unauthorised organisation.
Not so hard to understand

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Read the fecking report would you. The 'PSNI' state no such thing.

'Some members of PIRA believe that. That is all the report says.
When interviewed by the BBC in 2015 the Chief Constable refused to say if the Army Council existed or not.

So NOWHERE has the PSNI said such a thing

So, what's the issue then?
If it hasn't been said why are people complaining about the Garda Commissioner?

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

but they are reporting to terrorists or something blah blah blah aren't they?

In the real world the report said ex provos were now working politically for peaceful ends, but we not talking the real world here - we're talking the makey uppey world where you dont need to prove anything because you know what? SF are ran by the PIRA. Or so you say.

McMurphy wrote: »

They have proof that an illegal organisation is operating, and directing a political party, yet they haven't made any arrests or charged anyone?

So they're failing in their duties so, is that it?

Why do posters keep asking silly questions that have been answered comprehensively already.

blanch152 wrote: »

People shouldn't go down rabbit-holes with this type of nonsensical arguments. We have been here before.

We know that Gerry Adams is a liar. He told one story to Spotlight about his knowledge and cover-up of child sexual abuse by his brother, and another story to a court. Francie asked why wasn't he convicted of perjury. The reason being is that the reasonable defence of lying to the tv programme not the court meant that a conviction would be extremely unlikely especially as Liam Adams wouldn't testify, so no objective evidence exists as to which story was the truth.

This case would be similar. Firstly, you would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt both the existence and membership of the IRA Army Council. Secondly, you would have to provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the Army Council is exercising control and direction over Sinn Fein, such evidence having to consist of hard documentation, recordings of phone conversations, meetings etc. Then finally, you would have to prove that Sinn Fein wouldn't have taken those decisions anyway.

So while the Gardai and the PSNI would probably have some such evidence and almost certainly inside informer information, they would be a long way short of being able to produce such evidence for a criminal court case with the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. However, I believe that they would have enough evidence to stand up in a civil case where the evidence standard is on the balance of probabilities. Why would I say that? Because Mary-Lou and Sinn Fein could easily have sued the PSNI and the Gardai if that wasn't the case. That they haven't tells you all you need to know.

Francie knows all this, but he is trying to drag posters down a rabbit hole into a warren of claim and counter-claim, bluff and buster that ultimately won't change the fact that the evidence demonstrates that on the balance of probability Sinn Fein is controlled by the IRA Army Council.

Of course, a real danger of Sinn Fein being in government for even a short while is that the names of informers within the IRA become known to them and retribution is taken making the job of the PSNI and the Gardai to monitor the activities of the IRA Army Council that more difficult.

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

So, what's the issue then?
If it hasn't been said why are people complaining about the Garda Commissioner?

Because the suspicion is that the GC has been used for political ends. He issues a vague statement and precisely what was probably hoped, happened.
People like Mortelaro and yourself read between lines to arrive at shock horror SF is controlled by the IRA conclusions.

dxhound2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because the suspicion is that the GC has been used for political ends. He issues a vague statement and precisely what was probably hoped, happened.
People like Mortelaro and yourself read between lines to arrive at shock horror SF is controlled by the IRA conclusions.

The suspicion is? Your suspicion. Harris stands over his statement.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0226/1117780-policing-authority-commissioner/

maccored

bubblypop wrote: »

In the real world people need to commit an offence before they are arrested.
Sinn Fein is not an unauthorised organisation, therefore they have not committed a crime of membership of an unauthorised organisation.
Not so hard to understand

so whats all the whinging about?

I agree btw - SF are a legit political party and shouldnt be subject to the kind of bull**** we hear being spouted about them being run by the PIRA. Youre kinda arguing against yourself there but work away. Bit like the whole anti sf FG/FF agenda backfiring

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Why do posters keep asking silly questions that have been answered comprehensively already.

eh?

All i read was a lot of your opinion

FrancieBrady

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The suspicion is? Your suspicion.

Not just mine.

holyhead

In a sense SF are responsible for the continued link between themselves and the IRA in the eyes of the public. With shouts of 'up the ra', tiocfaidh ar la, and picture of Bobby Sands etc. It is Mary Lou's contention that the IRA is a relic of the past. The Garda Commissioner seems to view them as still being in existence and a relevant threat. If Mary Lou has no connection to the IRA then the question has to be asked how can she definitively say they are extinct.

dxhound2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not just mine.

It's a very serious business, if it has any basis in fact. The suspicion that journalists, anti SF politicians and the Commissioner connived to damage SF by putting the assessment into the public domain. I think that is conspiracy theory stuff.