Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

James Brown

mynamejeff wrote: »

The October 2015 Assessment on Paramilitary Groups in Northern Ireland concluded that the Provisional IRA still existed "in a much reduced form", and that some IRA members believed its Army Council oversaw both the IRA and Sinn Féin, although it believed that the leadership "remains committed to the peace process and its aim of achieving a united Ireland by political means"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assessment_on_Paramilitary_Groups_in_Northern_Ireland#Conclusions_with_respect_to_different_groups

You just see the thread and didn't read it? This is what we've all been discussing. Not rehashing 153 pages for you

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I just did, did you read the bit you posted that I quoted.
Only someone with inside knowledge could make that statement as being a fact.

And again in the above post.

That's not a fact. It's opinion based on common knowledge. Still don't know what your point was/is. Do you?

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

That's not a fact. It's opinion based on common knowledge. Still don't know what your point was/is. Do you?

So your statement that the IRA army council doesent or cant exist and is not in control of SF is not actually a fact, just your opinion.
That was my point, you didn't make that clear in any of your previous posts.

mynamejeff

Bowie wrote: »

You just see the thread and didn't read it? This is what we've all been discussing. Not rehashing 153 pages for you

lol all the lads with multiple names and flat out denials that the ira exists or has power of sf asking for evidence

McMurphy

Seems it's finally starting to dawn on FF that their strategy before, during and after the election was a brain fart. Chickens home to roost and what not.

Micheál Martin faces angry backlash from TDs over stance on Sinn Féin

On the ard comhairle:

Robert Troy dismissed Mr Martin’s criticisms of the unelected people who run Sinn Féin.

The Longford-Westmeath TD said all parties have influential unelected figures in the background, including Fianna Fáil.

Would anyone be surprised if there's a heave against Martin?

tipptom

Bowie wrote: »

That's not a fact. It's opinion based on common knowledge. Still don't know what your point was/is. Do you?

He is trying to say that you must be on this fairytale council that some fella with a pint in each hand told some spook who may or may not have had a pint in each hand.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So your statement that the IRA army council doesent or cant exist and is not in control of SF is not actually a fact, just your opinion.
That was my point, you didn't make that clear in any of your previous posts.

Agreed. I gave an opinion and used the commonly known facts to support it. You obviously didn't read any of my comments in any detail.

No IRA.
Former IRA are in SF.

Conclusion: I don't believe there is an active Army council as their is no IRA to command and any input to Sinn Fein could be done from within Sinn Fein. Rendering any Army council pointless.

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

Seems it's finally starting to dawn on FF that their strategy before, during and after the election was a brain fart. Chickens home to roost and what not.

Micheál Martin faces angry backlash from TDs over stance on Sinn Féin

On the ard comhairle:



Would anyone be surprised if there's a heave against Martin?

...all parties have influential unelected figures in the background, including Fianna Fáil

I've been saying it for a long time.
We've even got the FG boys giving the 'nothing to see here' about a then private adviser, married to the then MD of a massive vulture fund giving advice on FG housing policy. Hypocrites and chizzlers.

Takes a FF'er to give sense to FG. Really sunk low lads

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Agreed. I gave an opinion and used the commonly known facts to support it. You obviously didn't read any of my comments in any detail.

No IRA.
Former IRA are in SF.

Conclusion: I don't believe there is an active Army council as their is no IRA to command and any input to Sinn Fein could be done from within Sinn Fein. Rendering any Army council pointless.

You can believe whatever you like.
I tend to believe reports that have been put together by police & security services.

James Brown

bubblypop wrote: »

You can believe whatever you like.
I tend to believe reports that have been put together by police & security services.

It does not make logical sense to me based on the known facts that there is an active army council when the same lads could simple waltz into Sinn Fein offices and have their speak as card carrying SF members. Also there is no army to be council of.

On validity;
More breath tests 'allegedly' conducted than mouthpieces available would allow.
A Garda commissioner smearing the name of an officer because the officer was a whistleblower.
Paperless contracts between the Garda and private business
35 years to apologise for shooting unarmed civilians dead.
Alleged collusion on both sides of the border with terrorists.
...I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Agreed. I gave an opinion and used the commonly known facts to support it. You obviously didn't read any of my comments in any detail.

No IRA.
Former IRA are in SF.

Conclusion: I don't believe there is an active Army council as their is no IRA to command and any input to Sinn Fein could be done from within Sinn Fein. Rendering any Army council pointless.

Fair enough.
Crucially despite the criticism of his statement and its timing, and the Irish times also takes responsibility for its reporter asking the question, the commissioner didn't state that the garda opinion was fact either, just opinion.
If it became provable fact I'm sure there would be legal repercussions.

Just as an aside, in my locality, close to the border, word on the ground was that if brexit had went the way of crossborder checks and customs posts, the disbanded army and council were preparing a campaign of harassment and maybe bombings of custom posts if that had gone ahead.
I'm sure it was just gossip, but common knowledge isn't always fact is it.

The report states that the structures of all paramilitary organisations operational during the troubles, remain in place.
Albeit, no longer active.

So if the structures remain, why would the army council not remain?

As for the rant about gardai....... I'm still going to believe they know more than you do about these organisations

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

You can believe whatever you like.
I tend to believe reports that have been put together by police & security services.

Do you now.

Gardaí ‘exaggerated number of breath tests by 1.45 million’

The report by Assistant Commissioner Michael O’Sullivan investigates the falsification of breath test figures and the wrongful conviction of 14,500 people for motoring offences

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Do you now.

Gardaí ‘exaggerated number of breath tests by 1.45 million’

Don't know what that has to do with a report about terrorist organisations.

Oh, sorry, just a chance to get a dig in....

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

Don't know what that has to do with a report about terrorist organisations.

Oh, sorry, just a chance to get a dig in....

You wouldn't make a good Garda anyway with a memory like that

You said

I tend to believe reports that have been put together by police & security services

I showed you how they can be spoofers when it suits.

Tut tut.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

You wouldn't make a good Garda anyway with a memory like that

You said

I showed you how they can be spoofers when it suits.

Tut tut.

But the article you linked to was about a report the gardai did into the false breath tests.
And it reported the truth about the scandal.
So, a perfectly correct report.

McMurphy

bubblypop wrote: »

But the article you linked to was about a report the gardai did into the false breath tests.
And it reported the truth about the scandal.
So, a perfectly correct report.

The report was a report about the spoofing, and I don't think anyone believes they had anything other than little to no option but to come clean and fess when they were caught with their pants down.

I won't even touch on the other stuff already mentioned on thread, but if you think the guards are beyond reproach, good luck with the naivety.

Nobody is beyond reproach. Nore should any police force be, they should be answerable to the public.

However, when it comes to this particular topic, given the amount of experience the police & security services have in this country, I'll take it as it says.

Runaways

McMurphy wrote: »

Especially Leo.

This side of his mouth>>> Sinn Fein are controlled by the IRA army council.
This side of his mouth<<<<Sinn Féin need to govern the country.

Leo has detailed knowledge of a political party being controlled by an illegal operation, and is advocating they're running the country.

You couldn't make it up. :pac:

This.


Can anyone under the secret army council delusion please address this?

Runaways

If in his time as head of the PSNI Drew Harris knew there was a secret IRA army council, in Belfast, surely he lapsed in his duty to ruin them up and arrest and charge them with membership of an illegal orginisation, no?

Why didn’t he?

Oh yeah. They don’t exist.

Or!!

He was tried to say they do by Leo and co for convenient political interference to tarnish SFs romp up the polls

Which could it be

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

This.


Can anyone under the secret army council delusion please address this?

I see nothing contradictory in that.

One is a statement of fact about Sinn Fein being under the control of the Army Council. The other is a statement of fact about the outcome of the election and the Sinn Fein claim of having won the election.

Nothing contradictory in it. In the same way anyone can acknowledge that Boris Johnson is a thoroughly disgusting racist and misogynist yet at the same time recognise that he has won the mandate to be Prime Minister and that people have voted for him. Ditto Trump, ditto Sinn Fein, in slightly different ways.

Sinn Fein got the most votes and claimed to have won the election. It is incumbent on them therefore to get on with the process of forming a government, something that they have abysmally failed to do. The Taoiseach is calling on them to get on with what they said they would do. Sinn Fein's inability to find a compromise with any other party says an awful lot about them.

They are also controlled by the IRA Army Council. That means he can say he won't form a government with them. It would seem by their actions that others like FF, the Greens, Labour and the Soc Dems share this analysis of Sinn Fein. That is all.

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

If in his time as head of the PSNI Drew Harris knew there was a secret IRA army council, in Belfast, surely he lapsed in his duty to ruin them up and arrest and charge them with membership of an illegal orginisation, no?

Why didn’t he?

Oh yeah. They don’t exist.

Or!!

He was tried to say they do by Leo and co for convenient political interference to tarnish SFs romp up the polls

Which could it be

The rules of evidence and the threshold needed to obtain a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt have been explained on this thread.

Maintaining a fiction that it is the easiest thing in the world to arrest and convict these horrible people is a disingenuous argument.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

. That means he can say he won't form a government with them. It would seem by their actions that others like FF, the Greens, Labour and the Soc Dems share this analysis of Sinn Fein. That is all.

Ignoring the rest of your fantasies where you try to pass off both your and Leo's opinion as fact.

The greens nor SocDems havent ruled out entering coalition with SF to the best of my knowledge (as a green voter I find your lack of knowledge on their position strange tbh). If you've a source that says otherwise, throw it up.

The SocDems have ruled out entering a FFG coalition however, but what's the weather like in your topsy turvy Blanchland this morning?

mattser

3, 2, 1, .........

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Ignoring the rest of your fantasies where you try to pass off both your and Leo's opinion as fact.

The greens nor SocDems havent ruled out entering coalition with SF to the best of my knowledge (as a green voter I find your lack of knowledge on their position strange tbh). If you've a source that says otherwise, throw it up.

The SocDems have ruled out entering a FFG coalition however, but what's the weather like in your topsy turvy Blanchland this morning?

Sinn Fein no longer in government formation talks it seems.


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0305/1120403-quinn-parents-leinster-house/

It also appears that Paul Quinn continues to haunt them.

FrancieBrady

There are people so used to this kind of double speak and duplicity that they are lost to democracy.

This guy has lied through his teeth for power. Here he is for all to see, doing it. No if's or buts or 'for the good of the country' bull****ting gets away from that.
And his counterpart in FG is playing the role of his facilitator in the Great Power Swap Swindle.

https://twitter.com/JoeEDwyer/status/1235547128342163456

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are people so used to this kind of double speak and duplicity that they are lost to democracy.

This guy has lied through his teeth for power. Here he is for all to see, doing it. No if's or buts or 'for the good of the country' bull****ting gets away from that.
And his counterpart in FG is playing the role of his facilitator in the Great Power Swap Swindle.

https://twitter.com/JoeEDwyer/status/1235547128342163456

Criticism of double speak and duplicity from a Sinn Fein apologist? Had to laugh at this post.

I will admit that I am beginning to have a small bit of respect for Micheal Martin for his consistent line on Sinn Fein.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein no longer in government formation talks it seems.


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0305/1120403-quinn-parents-leinster-house/

It also appears that Paul Quinn continues to haunt them.

I like how you answered a question never asked of you.

You aren't prepared to back up your earlier claim now I take it?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Criticism of double speak and duplicity from a Sinn Fein apologist? Had to laugh at this post.

I will admit that I am beginning to have a small bit of respect for Micheal Martin for his consistent line on Sinn Fein.

He's as morally upstanding as you.

Both of you on Mairia Cahill...moral high grounding until the cows came home. Milked those cows for all it was worth with you blanch wearing out a keyboard on the subject.

Two documentaries this week...the ongoing travails of his Ceann Comhairle...and you announce you have 'respect' for Martin? and not a word about a myriad of victims he has ignored. You would make a great partnership...no doubt.

Pathetic.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

I like how you answered a question never asked of you.

You aren't prepared to back up your earlier claim now I take it?

A little colder than I would like. Some signs of rain in the distance, might ruin lunchtime, but in the longer term optimistic that the second half of March will finally bring some warm Spring weather.