Do men ever read women authors and vice versa?

nkl12xtw5goz70

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Female authors are advised not to use their full name on their book covers and only use their first initial so people will assume theyre men because less people will buy their books if they know the author is female. That's why the likes of Joanne Rowling used the initials J.K on her Harry Potter books.

Surely it's always been widely known that J. K. Rowling is a woman? Despite what you say, the vast majority of female authors use their full names on their book covers.

rdhma

vriesmays wrote: »

That's the grand sum of eleven movies. Might as well list two female rock bands and say they're just as good as most male rock bands.

You may have missed where I said that was just a few examples off the top of my head.
It is always better, however to debate based on evidence rather than unsubstantiated opinion, so here is a statistic.

Of the top-grossing 1,300 films from 2007-2019:
The average Metacritc score for films with only male directors attached (Mean=54.2, Range=9-100) was virtually identical to those with a female director attached (Mean=55.8, Range=22-95).

tuxy

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

Surely it's always been widely known that J. K. Rowling is a woman? Despite what you say, the vast majority of female authors use their full names on their book covers.

It wasn't, before she was well known and before there was the internet to check people would see the name on the bookshelf and have no idea of the gender of the author.
Most would assume J. K. Rowling was a man.

Chris_Heilong

If they are good then yes I will read them.

Woke Hogan

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

I have read women writers — Jane Austen, George Eliot, Emily Dickinson, Virginia Woolf — but can't abide the self-conscious, "writerly" prose of modern literary fiction. Most emerging writers nowadays have spent years in MFA programs honing their ability to sound like already published writers of literary fiction, so there's a stultifying homogeneity about it all, despite dust jacket proclaiming that every new writer is a bold original voice breaking fresh literary territory.

I spend most of my reading time these days reading older books — and yes, most of them are by men. I'm regularly reassured, reading the New York Times' list of the best books of the year, and so on, that I'm not missing out on much.

I would have thought you’d be a big fan of Ayn Rand.

Woke Hogan

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I would have thought you’d be a big fan of Ayn Rand.

Friedrich Hayek and Adam Smith complete the shallow intellectual trio.

I read Anaïs Nin as a teenager, left quite an impression.

Airyfairy12

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

Surely it's always been widely known that J. K. Rowling is a woman? Despite what you say, the vast majority of female authors use their full names on their book covers.

She said it herself in an interview, before releasing her first Harry Potter book she was told she wouldnt be taken seriously if people knew she was a woman.

Greyfox

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

She said it herself in an interview, before releasing her first Harry Potter book she was told she wouldnt be taken seriously if people knew she was a woman.

It's true, it just goes to show how stupid a lot of the general public are

EmmetSpiceland

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Maybe some people do that, but magical realism is a distinct genre quite different to fantasy.

Yes, it’s fantasy for “grownups”.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I read Anaïs Nin as a teenager, left quite an impression.

‘Delta of Venus’ was a “hard” read alright.

Better Than Christ

I don't read books because there boring and for nerds, but I wouldn't let a writer's gender put me off. Some women are actually really good at writing. Take Evelyn Waugh, for example; she wrote the film Brideshead Revisited, which was almost as good as anything that a man would of written.

Better Than Christ

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Take Evelyn Waugh, for example; she wrote the film Brideshead Revisited, which was almost as good as anything that a man would of written.

A scoop if I've ever heard one.

Conall Cernach

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Maybe some people do that, but magical realism is a distinct genre quite different to fantasy.

Sounds like bollox to me as a life long fantasy fan. What would be considered "magical realism" as opposed to fantasy?

beejee

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

If they are good then yes I will read them.

But.... How do you knows it's good until you've read it?

beejee

Quite the little brouhahahaha about Mary shelley actually having written frankenstein or not.

Mad suspo for realz

nkl12xtw5goz70

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

She said it herself in an interview, before releasing her first Harry Potter book she was told she wouldnt be taken seriously if people knew she was a woman.

But that doesn't explain why other women can openly put their names on their books and be taken seriously? Toni Morrison, Hilary Mantel, Zadie Smith, etc.

beejee

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

But that doesn't explain why other women can openly put their names on their books and be taken seriously? Toni Morrison, Hilary Mantel, Zadie Smith, etc.

It's a complete crock of shoite, that's why. Nothing but an extra soundbite for on the radio, or another excuse if an author flops.

nkl12xtw5goz70

beejee wrote: »

Quite the little brouhahahaha about Mary shelley actually having written frankenstein or not.

Her husband clearly made substantial contributions to Frankenstein, but would have been happy to have her credited as the author.

ILoveYourVibes

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

But that doesn't explain why other women can openly put their names on their books and be taken seriously? Toni Morrison, Hilary Mantel, Zadie Smith, etc.

Its different. JK's market was not a literary one. She wasn't going to be nominated for the booker prize. Also those writers haven't sold as much.

I would wager if Zadie Smith was a white guy writing her material she might have sold a lot more.

The literary world got behind them also.

I mean Zadie Smiths net worth is only about 100,000.

They have the literary success but not the commercial success.

If i were a writer (which i would love to be) i would chose a waspish male name.

I would so sell out!

nkl12xtw5goz70

Agatha Christie has sold over 2 billion books, despite having a female name.

JupiterKid

Of course I read books by female as well as male authors.

Women write in many different genres including crime and science fiction. Books by Zadie Smith, Ruth Rendell, Kathy Reichs, Alice Walker, Patricia Cornwell, Jane Austen and Donna Tartt - are among my pretty sizable collection of literature.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Sounds like bollox to me as a life long fantasy fan. What would be considered "magical realism" as opposed to fantasy?

It's a style of fiction, particularly common in Latin America and South Asia, that blends the supernatural and realistic. It's commonly associated with authors such as Gabriel García Márquez and Salman Rushdie. It could be regarded as a form of fantasy, but it's very different to what we usually think of when we use that term.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yes, it’s fantasy for “grownups”.

Have you ever read any magical realism?

Rufeo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its different. JK's market was not a literary one. She wasn't going to be nominated for the booker prize. Also those writers haven't sold as much.

I would wager if Zadie Smith was a white guy writing her material she might have sold a lot more.

The literary world got behind them also.

I mean Zadie Smiths net worth is only about 100,000.

They have the literary success but not the commercial success.

If i were a writer (which i would love to be) i would chose a waspish male name.

I would so sell out!

Do you write anything?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If i were a writer (which i would love to be) i would chose a waspish male name.

I would so sell out!

The biggest, by far, consumer group in the world, is women. They outbuy males by a huge margin.

60% of those buying books were women in 2013. (Yup couldn't find better statistics by gender)

Women/girls are also more likely to read for pleasure, than men/boys. Women are likely to read more books than men in a year. Females are more likely to read fiction than males, who tend to prefer non-fiction (which tends to be priced higher than fiction). There are generally more women than men in Third level studies, and girls are outperforming boys in secondary schools. Google away, you'll find plenty of articles referring to this things.

The real deciding factors are 1) Genre 2) Who you market yourself to [and how] 3) and the style of writing.

You can try to make this a gender issue. I know there's plenty of women out there doing the same as you, seeking some kind of injustice, but... the wonderful thing about writing, is that if you're good (and you market yourself well) you'll sell.

nkl12xtw5goz70

tuxy wrote: »

It wasn't, before she was well known and before there was the internet to check people would see the name on the bookshelf and have no idea of the gender of the author.

The first Harry Potter novel came out in 1997, so it was hardly before the internet.

Most would assume J. K. Rowling was a man.

Curiously, I've never known anyone, even in the early days of the Harry Potter phenomenon, who thought Rowling was a man. She has sold hundreds of millions of books to readers fully aware that she is a woman.

The notion that female authors have to hide their gender to achieve success simply doesn't hold up. Of the noteworthy writers I can think of who published under their initials — W. B. Yeats, T. S. Eliot, W. H. Auden, J.R.R. Tolkien, J. D. Salinger, H. G. Wells, H. P. Lovecraft, P. G. Wodehouse, V. S. Naipaul, J. M. Coetzee — most have been male. Apart from J. K. Rowling and A. S. Byatt, I can't think of any other prominent female writer who publishes under her initials.

nkl12xtw5goz70

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its different. JK's market was not a literary one. She wasn't going to be nominated for the booker prize. Also those writers haven't sold as much.

I would wager if Zadie Smith was a white guy writing her material she might have sold a lot more.

The literary world got behind them also.

I mean Zadie Smiths net worth is only about 100,000.

They have the literary success but not the commercial success.

If i were a writer (which i would love to be) i would chose a waspish male name.

I would so sell out!

In the United States, according to Publishers Weekly, the top-selling books of 2019 were:

1. Where the Crawdads Sing by Delia Owens
2. Becoming by Michelle Obama
3. Dog Man: Brawl of the Wild by Dav Pilkey
4. Girl, Stop Apologizing by Rachel Hollis
5. Diary of An Awesome Friendly Kid by Jeff Kinney
6. Girl, Wash Your Face by Rachel Hollis
7. Oh, the Places You'll Go! by Dr. Seuss
8. Educated by Tara Westover
9. The Tattooist of Auschwitz by Heather Morris
10. The Wonky Donkey by Craig Smith

So female writers wrote six of the top ten best-selling books of last year. Where the Crawdads Sing topped the New York Times bestselling fiction list for 27 weeks in 2019. Meanwhile, all four male writers on this list are writing for kids, and one has been dead for nearly 30 years.

And yet some posters continue to insist that female writers publishing under female names can't achieve commercial success?

nkl12xtw5goz70

And in Ireland, according to the Irish Times, the three best selling books of 2019 were The Tattooist of Auschwitz by Heather Morris (41,627 copies), Normal People by Sally Rooney (41,513 copies), and Once, Twice, Three Times an Aisling by Sarah Breen and Emer McLysaght (almost 39,000 copies, with their Aisling series earning over €1.1 million last year in total). Irish women writers including Anne Griffin, Emilie Pine, Anna Burns, Vicky Phelan, and Liane Moriarty also performed well commercially, outperforming most men besides bestselling kids' authors like Jeff Kinney and David Walliams.

Again, the sob story of the poor female writer who can't achieve commercial success because of her gender just doesn't hold up.

The tattooist of Auschwitz was appallingly written..

It was so bad..

nkl12xtw5goz70

Deleted User wrote: »

The tattooist of Auschwitz was appallingly written..

It was so bad..

Haven't read it. The only book I've read from the lists above is Tara Westover's memoir Educated, which is great.

EmmetSpiceland

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

Again, the sob story of the poor female writer who can't achieve commercial success because of her gender just doesn't hold up.

I guess it might be more accurate to say a woman might “conceal” her gender if she wants to taken, as some might say, “seriously” as a writer.

Of that list you put up, of the 3 three “best sellers”, I’d say only Sally Rooney would be considered “serious”. And with the top 10 list, there’s an awful lot of, vapid, parody or manipulative misery stuff.

Let’s face it, the literary “charts” are the same as the music ones, best selling doesn’t always equal quality.

But, look, if you want to think that a woman author is starting out at the level as a man that’s fine. I’m sure you’ll have 4 or 5 links in waiting to show the pay gap “myth” extends to all facets of life and, sure, if you don’t you can always multiquote and harangue the “point” to death.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The tattooist of Auschwitz was appallingly written..

It was so bad..

TBF, the Harry Potter series wasn't that well written either. The quality of writing went up and down often depending on the book. The idea and scope of her imagination was excellent, but in terms of writing? It was aimed at young teens where such considerations aren't so important. It was the movie productions that made her such a best seller.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

But, look, if you want to think that a woman author is starting out at the level as a man that’s fine. I’m sure you’ll have 4 or 5 links in waiting to show the pay gap “myth” extends to all facets of life and, sure, if you don’t you can always multiquote and harangue the “point” to death.

As opposed to saying your opinion and simply expecting everyone to agree with you? Especially when that opinion claims discrimination is occurring? Right. No.

I've had three books rejected by publishers. I've also published three. I've made some money, but haven't established myself within the two genres effectively. I could claim some form of "reverse" discrimination or simply acknowledge that it takes time/experience/luck to become a good (and successful) writer.

Yeah, dunno.. didn't read any of the Harry Potter..I'm a 40 year old man..

But I had a look at my bookshelf here, and I'd have to say that the list of my top contemporary novels are pretty much all women..
Claire North.. Eleanor Carton.. Susanna Clarke.. Jessey Burton.. Natasha Pulley..Gail Honeyman.. Chloe Benjamin..

I don't know what to make of this..

nkl12xtw5goz70

Deleted User wrote: »

As opposed to saying your opinion and simply expecting everyone to agree with you? Especially when that opinion claims discrimination is occurring? Right. No.

Launching in 2022, the Carol Shields Prize for Fiction is a major new literary award with a top prize of $150,000 Canadian dollars — which dwarfs that for the Booker Prize (£50,000), the Pulitzer Prize (USD $15,000), and the National Book Award (USD $10,000).

The only catch is that this award is open to female and nonbinary writers only.

No discrimination there, clearly...

Shur you could probably put on a scarf and say you're non binary..

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, dunno.. didn't read any of the Harry Potter..I'm a 40 year old man..

But I had a look at my bookshelf here, and I'd have to say that the list of my top contemporary novels are pretty much all women..
Claire North.. Eleanor Carton.. Susanna Clarke.. Jessey Burton.. Natasha Pulley..Gail Honeyman.. Chloe Benjamin..

I've got the full set of the Harry Potter books. They're decent fantasy. I feel that Janny Wurts, wars of light and shadow, blows them out of the water, but hey, each to their own. I'm 42 btw, and I've been reading fantasy since i was 11.

I don't know what to make of this..

It's the expectation that women must be on par or better than men in every aspect of society or in every industry. If they're not, then there's discrimination involved.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've got the full set of the Harry Potter books. They're decent fantasy. I feel that Janny Wurts, wars of light and shadow, blows them out of the water, but hey, each to their own. I'm 42 btw, and I've been reading fantasy since i was 11.

Dude..read 'Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell'..

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..read 'Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell'..

Yup. have them. Excellent books.

My hardback/paperback collection is kinda small these days, but my ebook collection is in the thousands now. As I said, I'm a fantasy nut.

Janny wurts was brilliant with Feist for the daughter of the empire books

DaeryssaOne

The JK Rowling thing was that she didn't want young boys to not be interested in reading the books because a girls name is on the cover (as we all know, to an 8 year old boy - "girls are gross").

I'm an avid reader of fiction - historical fiction, thrillers, spy novels, general dramas etc but tend to avoid 'chick-lit' type books like the plague.
I had a quick check of my Goodreads shelf and expected the list to be more in favour of male authors but surprisingly it was about 65% female.

Pretty happy about that to be honest, I think there are some fantastic female authors out there, some favourites from the last few years being Kate Atkinson, Donna Tart, Karin Slaughter, Arundhati Roy, Kristin Hannah and Helen Dunmore.

The author's gender is not something I ever consider when choosing a book, the synopsis just needs to grab my attention.

nkl12xtw5goz70

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I guess it might be more accurate to say a woman might “conceal” her gender if she wants to taken, as some might say, “seriously” as a writer.

That is a monumentally silly argument.

First, female writers are taken seriously. You think the likes of Toni Morrison, Doris Lessing, and Hilary Mantel haven't been taken seriously? Do they hand out Nobel prizes to non-serious people now? Do you have examples, by any chance, of a serious female writer whom you believe isn't being taken seriously? And how?

Second, any writer being published nowadays is expected to pose for author photos, maintain a website and social media presence, do print and radio/TV interviews, and go on book tours to support her book. She will be contractually obligated by her publisher to do these things. It's impossible for any writer to "conceal her gender" while also engaging in widespread publicity campaigns.

vriesmays

rdhma wrote: »

You may have missed where I said that was just a few examples off the top of my head.
It is always better, however to debate based on evidence rather than unsubstantiated opinion, so here is a statistic.

Of the top-grossing 1,300 films from 2007-2019:
The average Metacritc score for films with only male directors attached (Mean=54.2, Range=9-100) was virtually identical to those with a female director attached (Mean=55.8, Range=22-95).

Why don't you google the greatest films of all time list, count the ones with a female director and get back to me.

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

Shur you could probably put on a scarf and say you're non binary..

All joking aside, but a lot of feminist directors are indentyfying as women fore a few years to gain creditionals or something :P

creditcarder

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its different. JK's market was not a literary one. She wasn't going to be nominated for the booker prize. Also those writers haven't sold as much.

I would wager if Zadie Smith was a white guy writing her material she might have sold a lot more.

The literary world got behind them also.

I mean Zadie Smiths net worth is only about 100,000.

They have the literary success but not the commercial success.

If i were a writer (which i would love to be) i would chose a waspish male name.

I would so sell out!

What about all the waspish men that never become popular or even published? :P All joking aside, but it would be best if you focused on the book before the marketing

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

As opposed to saying your opinion and simply expecting everyone to agree with you? Especially when that opinion claims discrimination is occurring? Right. No.

I've had three books rejected by publishers. I've also published three. I've made some money, but haven't established myself within the two genres effectively. I could claim some form of "reverse" discrimination or simply acknowledge that it takes time/experience/luck to become a good (and successful) writer.

And dedication. Kind of like being a long distance runner after a 10 years of blood sweat and tears for an hour of limelight :P

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As opposed to saying your opinion and simply expecting everyone to agree with you? Especially when that opinion claims discrimination is occurring? Right. No.

Apologies, K. That was directed at Prof. Peterbear. I wished to engage with him, not one of the “acolytes”. But thanks for your input.

Roselyn Billions Puffball wrote: »

That is a monumentally silly argument.

First, female writers are taken seriously. You think the likes of Toni Morrison, Doris Lessing, and Hilary Mantel haven't been taken seriously? Do they hand out Nobel prizes to non-serious people now? Do you have examples, by any chance, of a serious female writer whom you believe isn't being taken seriously? And how?

Second, any writer being published nowadays is expected to pose for author photos, maintain a website and social media presence, do print and radio/TV interviews, and go on book tours to support her book. She will be contractually obligated by her publisher to do these things. It's impossible for any writer to "conceal her gender" while also engaging in widespread publicity campaigns.

No one is arguing that all women authors out there aren’t being taken seriously. It is being suggested that, maybe, they have to be “extra special” to garner the same “acclaim” in the, let’s call it, more serious fiction. And that some are using their initials to hide the fact they are woman.

It might also be suggested that publishers are directing some woman to certain, more lighter, forms of literature. After all, they can’t all be Joan Didions, Andrea Levys, or Maya Angelous.

But it does seem that someone like Banville can fart out any old turgid boring old tale or Colm Tóibín can swipe a leaf out of Frank McCourt’s book and cobble something together with a bunch of “stock” characters from the Irish-American sphere and publishers will be all over them begging for more.

I would imagine that no one has been “hiding” their gender, certainly not woman, in the last 3-5 years but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were at it before then. Not in the least.

Keyzer

eviltwin wrote: »

I read good books, don't care who wrote it

This...

Some of the best books I've read were by women, notably Anne Rice - an absolute legend.

Gender has nothing to do with it.

YFlyer

I read Wuthering Heights.

nkl12xtw5goz70

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It is being suggested that, maybe, they have to be “extra special” to garner the same “acclaim” in the, let’s call it, more serious fiction. And that some are using their initials to hide the fact they are woman.

Which female writers are using initials to hide the fact that they are women? I listed earlier a number of male writers who have used their initials — W. B. Yeats, T. S. Eliot, W. H. Auden, J.R.R. Tolkien, J. D. Salinger, H. G. Wells, H. P. Lovecraft, P. G. Wodehouse, V. S. Naipaul, and J. M. Coetzee — but where are the women? I can think of only two offhand, J. K. Rowling and A. S. Byatt, but clearly I must be missing a few dozen others if what you claim is true.

But it does seem that someone like Banville can fart out any old turgid boring old tale or Colm Tóibín can swipe a leaf out of Frank McCourt’s book and cobble something together with a bunch of “stock” characters from the Irish-American sphere and publishers will be all over them begging for more.

Publishers don't care as much as you think about a writer's gender; they just want to publish books that will sell and keep them in the black. It's also the case that practically anything that Anne Rice or J. K. Rowling writes will get accepted for publication; no matter how badly written it is, their fans will buy it. It's all about marketability these days, not gender. Most readers of fiction these days are women, after all.

I would imagine that no one has been “hiding” their gender, certainly not woman, in the last 3-5 years but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were at it before then. Not in the least.

There are certainly historical examples of authors disguising their gender, such as Mary Ann Evans, better known as George Eliot, but she wrote in the nineteenth century. If you have examples from as recently as 5 years ago, who are they?

Sleepy

Of course, the Guardian are all over Marian Keyes after she kicked this nonsense back into the spotlight a few weeks ago...

I'll read almost anything and almost anyone but I'll never intentionally read "chick-lit" again (aside from the Aisling books because my other half buys them and, let's be fair, they're basically Ross O' Carroll Kelly with a sex-change and a move down the country: more about Irish in-jokes than the character or their story). I've tried some of the big names (usually picking them up from my mother/sister/wife when I'd run out of my own reading material on holidays) and let's be honest: characters like Bridget Jones, Becky Bloomwood, Carrie Bradshaw, Lucy Sullivan, Benny Hogan or Rupert Campbell-Black are hardly written to appeal to the male audience. That said, I've personally sod all interest in the Andy McNabb "gritty SAS man saves the day" novels either.

The authors of what I read today would be a fairly even mix of gender though quite a lot of my reading in my formative years would have been of female authors. Enid Blyton, Sue Townsend and Anne Rice would have been strong features of my development as a reader with male authors like Arthur Hayley and James Clavell making a later appearance and, rather amusingly for someone who has since grown to love and devour fantasy novels, I hated JRR Tolkien and Roald Dahl's fiction (though I loved his auto-biographical books Boy and Going Solo).