Coronavirus

Dohnjoe

greenfield21 wrote: »

It seems like the Chinese connection to Italy through the textile industry along with undocumented workers is been completely ignored by the media. Surely that is one of the main reasons why certain areas lost control of this virus and are completely decimated there.

And the Chinese textile industry in Iran..

str8talkingguy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I hadn't realised doctors had received a massive pay rise thanks to the pandemic. they will be thrilled to hear this.


I'd forgotten about the hordes of medical and virology graduates just sitting around waiting for work.



not related to anything i posted or even to anything you posted.

You really believe doctors and scientists aren't making hay in this "pandemic",so was there different doctors/scientists appearing every few minutes on tv bulletins before this started?

Their twitter handle comes with their appearances its obvious they are doing pretty well out of this,Leo already told us the bill will be enormous where you think this money is going? into a black hole?

You don't know how its related you asked me what were vaccines for and i told you they are for making money for pharma companies.

str8talkingguy

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Italy has about 5 to 6 percent death peak.  Many of the people recovered have long-term lung damage.  Figures are low, but what happens if a million people get it? Italy health system has broken down in the north of the country. 40,000 thousand cases only so far!

The figures don't make sense,you could believe countries like Thailand for example are covering things up if you wanted to go that way.But considering they have thousands of Thais working in Wuhan coming and going,Chinese tourists coming and going in hoards and they have only one death so far and not many cases,but us here the other end of the planet are meant to be overrun with the "Chinese virus".

Seems like its mostly affecting the countries most advanced and most absorbed with technology,which begs the question is this scaremongering by the media.The average deaths of mostly sick and elderly per year from flu season from all accounts is 1 per 1000 which puts Italy pretty much on a normal trajectory same with Ireland given our population.

With the centralizing of everything on computers the elites have access to all the figures and can manipulate a normal flu seasons death rate to create hysteria to enact the necessary changes within society as in limiting people working since computers and robots can do so much of the work these days.

I personally don't believe most of this will ever be rowed back,its cutting down society to the minimum number of jobs to keep everything sustained for the elites just keeping the minimum number of manpower at work,i hope i'm wrong and everyone gets put back to work but i have a feeling a lot of people are going to be permanent on the dole.

Dohnjoe

str8talkingguy wrote: »

You really believe doctors and scientists aren't making hay in this "pandemic",so was there different doctors/scientists appearing every few minutes on tv bulletins before this started?

They are doing their jobs. Medical staff are being worked to extremes and dying from Covid19, 5 doctors died yesterday in Italy.

,Leo already told us the bill will be enormous where you think this money is going? into a black hole?

This crisis will cost us a massive amount. Lost jobs, lost business, a huge financial strain on the health service

You don't know how its related you asked me what were vaccines for and i told you they are for making money for pharma companies.

Vaccines prevent infectious diseases. Just because things cost money doesn't mean there is some universal nefarious narrative behind it.

Dohnjoe

str8talkingguy wrote: »

The figures don't make sense,you could believe countries like Thailand for example are covering things up if you wanted to go that way.But considering they have thousands of Thais working in Wuhan coming and going,Chinese tourists coming and going in hoards and they have only one death so far and not many cases,but us here the other end of the planet are meant to be overrun with the "Chinese virus".

Seems like its mostly affecting the countries most advanced and most absorbed with technology,which begs the question is this scaremongering by the media.The average deaths of mostly sick and elderly per year from flu season from all accounts is 1 per 1000 which puts Italy pretty much on a normal trajectory same with Ireland given our population.

With the centralizing of everything on computers the elites have access to all the figures and can manipulate a normal flu seasons death rate to create hysteria to enact the necessary changes within society as in limiting people working since computers and robots can do so much of the work these days.

I personally don't believe most of this will ever be rowed back,its cutting down society to the minimum number of jobs to keep everything sustained for the elites just keeping the minimum number of manpower at work,i hope i'm wrong and everyone gets put back to work but i have a feeling a lot of people are going to be permanent on the dole.

We don't know the true number of infections because only a certain proportion of cases are being tested in each country (the proportion varies). Most consider the true number of infections is higher.

Despite this, we have a fair idea of what's going on in most countries. In others, like Iran, there are conflicting reports. All we know is that no country wants to be the next Italy.

You might want to accept that there isn't some vague nefarious invisible hand behind all of this, it's a global pandemic, and we just have to get through it. Be thankful it doesn't have a higher fatality rate.

Dohnjoe

str8talkingguy wrote: »

Again media sources is important when talking about this stuff and where its coming from,the internet is awash with junk news hard to believe any of it.

Which is why most people avoid junk news and go for quality sources. You'll often find good information is corroborated and substantiated by multiple credible sources

Leo clearly told us its mostly going to affect the sick/elderly and for most of us its going to be a mild flu now you are saying Doctors are dying i have to say this is a new twist for me from what they were telling us.

Doctors and medical staff are much more exposed because they are on the front lines, in China at one point around 30% of patients were healthcare workers. Many of them are highly stressed and fatigued, which lowers the immune system.

Bowlardo

Country, Tot Cases/per million
Italy 778
Spain 461
Germany 237
Iran 234
France 193
Ireland 138
Portugal 100
Israel 81
USA 60
China 56
Russia 2
India 0.2


India and Russia have an incredibly low count per head of population

ohnonotgmail

Bowlardo wrote: »

Country, Tot Cases/per million
Italy 778
Spain 461
Germany 237
Iran 234
France 193
Ireland 138
Portugal 100
Israel 81
USA 60
China 56
Russia 2
India 0.2


India and Russia have an incredibly low count per head of population

and how many tests have those countries carried out?

leavingirl

If you got the flu shot, you are more susceptible to the coronavirus according to the National Institute of Health, US National Library of Medicine.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31607599

Dohnjoe

leavingirl wrote: »

If you got the flu shot, you are more susceptible to the coronavirus according to the National Institute of Health, US National Library of Medicine.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31607599

That's not the conclusion of the study you posted

leavingirl

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That's not the conclusion of the study you posted

I'm sorry that you got the flu jab. Just watch your diet and try to boost your immune system.

Dohnjoe

leavingirl wrote: »

I'm sorry that you got the flu jab. Just watch your diet and try to boost your immune system.

Here's the conclusion

Receipt of influenza vaccination was not associated with virus interference among our population. Examining virus interference by specific respiratory viruses showed mixed results. Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus and human metapneumovirus; however, significant protection with vaccination was associated not only with most influenza viruses, but also parainfluenza, RSV, and non-influenza virus coinfections.

TheRepentent

leavingirl wrote: »

I'm sorry that you got the flu jab. Just watch your diet and try to boost your immune system.

Where did he mention he got the flu jab? Would you not just answer his question?

Timberrrrrrrr

TheRepentent wrote: »

Where did he mention he got the flu jab? Would you not just answer his question?

Lads



Don't feed it.

eleventh

Dohnjoe wrote:

if the Irish government aren't trying to protect us from this virus, what are they doing exactly?

"Trying to protect us from this virus" but based on false beliefs, with all good intentions, won't protect us from anything and do a lot of damage in the process. Following the lead of Europe, WHO etc, the goals are towards European and world government, and against the best interests of Irish people.

eleventh

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

It would not surprise me if this was a deliberate act from China, a way to take down Europe and America. South American, Australia, and Africa have had little cases.
North Italy was the perfect place to plant the virus for Europe to absorb it, New York and Washington State like wise .

Funny how it never took effect in the City over from Wuhan, but Italy , yes.

Chinese infect Wuhan with weak strain, clean it up in a month, and then sits back and watching World suffer the full strength strain.

Don't agree it was China at all. Do agree though that certain regions have been targeted. Knowing that countries like Ireland would over-react to what's (reportedly) happening elsewhere based on nothing but the fear that same could happen here.

Dohnjoe

eleventh wrote: »

"Trying to protect us from this virus" but based on false beliefs, with all good intentions, won't protect us from anything and do a lot of damage in the process. Following the lead of Europe, WHO etc, the goals are towards European and world government, and against the best interests of Irish people.

This your opinion or a fact?

If it's a fact, can you explain exactly what you mean thanks

eleventh

Dohnjoe wrote:

Luckily for us, Corona doesn't have a higher fatality rate (although it's still 10 times higher than seasonal flu).

Where are you getting the "10 times higher" ?
The corona figure is ~11k so far worldwide. Winter flu annual deaths worldwide is estimated 400k to half a million (give or take a 100,000 or so depending on the year).

Even the so-called facts don't support the 'pandemic' they are pushing.

Dohnjoe

eleventh wrote: »

Where are you getting the "10 times higher" ?
The corona figure is ~11k so far worldwide. Winter flu annual deaths worldwide is estimated 400k to half a million (give or take a 100,000 or so depending on the year).

The death rate from seasonal flu is around 0.1%. The death rate from Covid19 is "around" 1% or higher (depending on where you are being treated)

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

Even the so-called facts don't support the 'pandemic' they are pushing.

Who are "they"?

Why have you put pandemic in inverted commas? It is a pandemic

Why do you describe it as being pushed?

Cheerful Spring2

eleventh wrote: »

Where are you getting the "10 times higher" ?
The corona figure is ~11k so far worldwide. Winter flu annual deaths worldwide is estimated 400k to half a million (give or take a 100,000 or so depending on the year).

Even the so-called facts don't support the 'pandemic' they are pushing.

Right now based on figures showing up about Italy, the death toll is  9% to 10% proportioned thereabouts. 
We apply this an example 
I recognize this not proper science model and the medical condition of every person in Italy, not the same, but let’s play with some math based on current threads.. 

Presently in Italy
53,000 cases- 4900 deaths. 

Italy population
60 million.

60 million - 9 percent rate about 54 million.  

That’s 6 million Italians based on the prevailing trends may die ( like i mentioned it's not science model)  

If you don’t prevent and just let everybody have the virus,  in about 4 to 5 months, the  crono will infect everyone, and there not health system anywhere in the world can deal with millions of people showing up to their hospitals sick with this virus. At just 50,000 cases Italy health system is at breaking point! 

Regions in Asia closed down quicker when they saw was resulting in China.  Plus the battled Sars and other infection in the past so their prevention was up and running much faster. 

eleventh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The death rate from seasonal flu is around 0.1%. The death rate from Covid19 is "around" 1% or higher (depending on where you are being treated)
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

This is what they say as to death rates:

The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S., according to The New York Times.

Though the death rate for COVID-19 is unclear, most research suggests it is higher than that of the seasonal flu.

Nowhere in the article do they say the rate of corona is "10 times higher" as you stated.

Earlier in the article a science spokesperson says

The issue now with [COVID-19] is that there's a lot of unknowns.

They don't know and the best they can do is guess or estimate based off limited data of a small number of 'cases', many of which are asymptomatic and most of which are not serious or debilitating (in the way that regular flu is).

Mic 1972

The death rate is much higher, as per actual data on Worldometer, as of today 11% of closed cases were deaths, the rest were recoveries
But people often forget that recovery means having your lungs damaged by pneumonia. That applies to mild cases too. One way to test people for Covid is to do an xray, the xray will show the damage in the lower part of the lungs. Most people who are riding this at home with flu-like symptoms are in fact fighting a mild pneumonia

Cheerful Spring2

eleventh wrote: »

This is what they say as to death rates:
Nowhere in the article do they say the rate of corona is "10 times higher" as you stated.

Earlier in the article a science spokesperson says
They don't know and the best they can do is guess or estimate based off limited data of a small number of 'cases', many of which are asymptomatic and most of which are not serious or debilitating (in the way that regular flu is).

Italy is not a limited case. It shows you how bad the virus can be if it spreads in the community.

FLU normal rate is 0.1 percent.
In Italy is tracking at 9 to 10 percent.

It still unclear if there two strains of the virus, mild one and more dangerous one impacting the world?

Mic 1972

greenfield21 wrote: »

It seems like the Chinese connection to Italy through the textile industry along with undocumented workers is been completely ignored by the media. Surely that is one of the main reasons why certain areas lost control of this virus and are completely decimated there.

That's a false rumor. The Chinese community in North Italy wasn't infected until recently. The epicenter of the outbreak is not the Chinese community

Cheerful Spring2

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The death rate is much higher, as per actual data on Worldometer, as of today 11% of closed cases were deaths, the rest were recoveries
But people often forget that recovery means having your lungs damaged by pneumonia. That applies to mild cases too. One way to test people for Covid is to do an xray, the xray will show the damage in the lower part of the lungs. Most people who are riding this at home with flu-like symptoms are in fact fighting a mild pneumonia

Based on what I learned from rational resources. You extremely high risk if your blood pressure is high.  So if you have high blood pressure stay inside. Smokers and people with diabetes and diseases that rise your blood pressure, you need to look after yourself.

I do agree with you, early signs established about 30 percent of people who have so far recovered had diminished lung function. 

Cheerful Spring2

str8talkingguy wrote: »

The figures don't make sense,you could believe countries like Thailand for example are covering things up if you wanted to go that way.But considering they have thousands of Thais working in Wuhan coming and going,Chinese tourists coming and going in hoards and they have only one death so far and not many cases,but us here the other end of the planet are meant to be overrun with the "Chinese virus".

Seems like its mostly affecting the countries most advanced and most absorbed with technology,which begs the question is this scaremongering by the media.The average deaths of mostly sick and elderly per year from flu season from all accounts is 1 per 1000 which puts Italy pretty much on a normal trajectory same with Ireland given our population.

With the centralizing of everything on computers the elites have access to all the figures and can manipulate a normal flu seasons death rate to create hysteria to enact the necessary changes within society as in limiting people working since computers and robots can do so much of the work these days.

I personally don't believe most of this will ever be rowed back,its cutting down society to the minimum number of jobs to keep everything sustained for the elites just keeping the minimum number of manpower at work,i hope i'm wrong and everyone gets put back to work but i have a feeling a lot of people are going to be permanent on the dole.

Not scaremongering based on what developing now in Italy! The moved slow and they got hit hard by the virus.  Countries in Europe will design models to combat the virus based on health information coming in from Italy.

Italy a modern country with a world class health service inside Europe!

Thailand. We don’t know enough about the politics there to trust their numbers!

I believe there is more than one strain of the virus?

I believe the pathogen was inside America during the summertime of 2019.  The CDC shutting down Fort Detrick in Aug 2019 can’t be disregarded here. On its own, it evidence, not proving anything!

When you look back, the media around the same was reporting flu/ pneumonia outbreaks during the summer in states next to Virginia ( where the facility was) then you have to wonder!. An retired home for the old in July got hit by a mystery illness and the symptoms they had match with the symptoms reported for covid- 19

Based on this information the pandemic seems to be a manufactured scare? Someone at this facility, working on his own leaked the virus or something else went on?

I actually do think the virus is dangerous and needs to be stopped. Will the Elites use this crisis to change things of course, i don’t disagree there. 

Cheerful Spring2

Don't overlook Iran was hit right after China.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1241356388636516353

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Right now based on figures showing up about Italy, the death toll is  9% to 10% proportioned thereabouts. 

It's not the rate because those are only confirmed cases, there are mild cases not being tested because people either aren't reporting them or there aren't enough testing kits

The estimated fatality rate for Covid19 is currently around 0.5% to 4% (ish) depending on where you live in the world

Dohnjoe

eleventh wrote: »

This is what they say as to death rates:
Nowhere in the article do they say the rate of corona is "10 times higher" as you stated.

It's in the article, seasonal flu has a 0.1% fatality rate. Covid19, depending on where someone lives has a fatality rate of approx 1% to 2% (with higher estimates up to 3.5%). Therefore, it's at least 10x more fatal than flu

Claim: ‘It is no more dangerous than winter flu’
Many individuals who get coronavirus will experience nothing worse than seasonal flu symptoms, but the overall profile of the disease, including its mortality rate, looks more serious. At the start of an outbreak the apparent mortality rate can be an overestimate if a lot of mild cases are being missed. But Bruce Aylward, a WHO expert, who led an international mission to China to learn about the virus and the country’s response, said this has not been the case with Covid-19. The evidence did not suggest that we were only seeing the tip of the iceberg. If borne out by further testing, this could mean that current estimates of a roughly 1% fatality rate are accurate. This would make Covid-19 about 10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, which is estimated to kill between 290,000 and 650,000 people a year globally.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/can-face-mask-protect-me-coronavirus-covid-19-myths-busted

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

https://time.com/5798168/coronavirus-mortality-rate/


Are you suggesting this isn't a pandemic?

Are you claiming it's orchestrated by a "they"? and who "they" exactly?

4068ac1elhodqr

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The death rate from seasonal flu is around 0.1%. The death rate from Covid19 is "around" 1% or higher (depending on where you are being treated)

That's likely a highly incorrect statement (1% or higher~) that you're (still) lazily throwing about the place. A conspiracy!

You're assuming a bottom-end final vague fatality rate, when most cases still haven't even been resolved. China's numbers are not to be trusted (which forms the basis of your link), Even then, China still has 18k unresolved cases.

Anyone with a bit of sense, realises it's going to be 'much, much' higher than just 1% when the final count comes in, and factoring in any contextual peak demands (the global epicurve hasn't started outside of China, weeks/months away).

Germany have have placed it low, but they might also record cause to any an underlying issue (as some others do). And like France/Spain still at an early phase.

Italy is the 2nd country on the major infection timeline, with a 8.3% fatality rate, which will likely only increase.

20/21st March: https://www.cebm.net/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

E.g. The UK are just starting this week into the low thousands and already have a rate of 4.4%, and one hospital went to critical lockdown status for a while. We can only guess what this will be at peak curve of +10wks circa time. But one thing is for sure, it won't be lower than that current 4% as demand increases.

The US have gone from close to nothing to 26k in a couple of weeks, any fatality rate there is too early to even be considered.

As I said, this 'about 1%' nonsense, is silly dis-information.