Employer Overpaid and now looking for money back

deisedude

Hi there,

My wife works for a semi state agency who she started with in 2018.

She got a call today from HR head office saying that even though all the information she gave them at the time she started was correct that a mistake was made and she was overpaid since the day she started and now it has come to light and they are saying she owes over €700. As the wages stayed the same from day one my wife wasn't aware of this

So now they are looking for the money back

We are drawing down a mortage in a few weeks and a baby on the way so this could not come at a worse time

Do we have any leg to stand on here because it was their HR department that fcuked up?

lawred2

It's their money. And their fück up. But still doesn't mean that it's your money. You'll have to pay it back. Arrange for it to be collected in deductions over the next 12 months. It's only 700 quid. Hardly going to put in or out on any mortgage application.

splinter65

deisedude wrote: »

Hi there,

My wife works for a semi state agency who she started with in 2018.

She got a call today from HR head office saying that even though all the information she gave them at the time she started was correct that a mistake was made and she was overpaid since the day she started and now it has come to light and they are saying she owes over €700. As the wages stayed the same from day one my wife wasn't aware of this

So now they are looking for the money back

We are drawing down a mortage in a few weeks and a baby on the way so this could not come at a worse time

Do we have any leg to stand on here because it was their HR department that fcuked up?

You can pay it back at €2 per week I’m sure

percy007

Get a repayment plan, digging in could make things uncomfortable.

Dav010

Op, your wife should check her contract of employment. It will have a paragraph relating to overpayments and right of recovery. This applies to excess wage payments and excess leave taken. It is legal for the employer to recover overpayments. As another poster said, it may not be a point on which you want to argue with your employer.

gmisk

I had an issue with money for travel pass not being taken (I had switched jobs) I genuinely had no idea. I owed 1500 euro they insisted but actual figure was roughly 800 (point of a tax saver is you don't pay as much tax) so after months of arguing they agreed
I paid it back over next couple months

endacl

Consider it an interest free loan that’s come due. They’ll be happy once they get it sorted before the end of the financial year. That’ll be 70 quid a month over the next ten.

Could be worse. A similar cockup left me owing almost 4 grand. Had been going on for several years. I pointed out politely and calmly that I hadn’t made any mistake and wouldn’t be in a position to pay back a lump. A monthly deduction from payroll was agreed, and all was sorted.

Around the ‘leg to stand on’ bit? No, you don’t. You’ll have to pay it back, but you should be able to arrange a plan that doesn’t hurt too much.

deisedude

Thanks for the replies guys

Frustrating that it being the public service I know nobody will be held accountable for fcuking up

We will just have to pay it and sort out a payment plan

careless sherpa

as it is to be repaid in a year that the overpayment did not occur in she will have to make any repayments from her net pay rather than gross. Then reclaim the tax/usc from revenue and prsi from dsp. Awkward mechanism they have put in place

theteal

Similar happened my wife when she went on Mat leave with the NHS. Iirc there's 3 different stages/amounts for NHS Mat pay e.g. full for 3 months then 50% for 3 etc. (not exact but something like that). I think we got to month 5 or 6 when an alarm bell went off as she realised the pay slip should have been a lot lighter. So she reported it to them. They'd over-payed for 2-3 months, we owed a few thousand back. They wanted it in a lump payment. She got on to the union, told them to go swing, their mistake and only surfaced when we reported it, could have went on a LOT longer. Anyway after a few months of arguing we agreed to pay £50 per month to be reviewed after a couple of years. . . .it's never been reviewed and we won't be paying more, still a few more years to go.

We've since learned it's a very common mistake with this government bodies - 2 more friends, another nurse and a teacher had the exact same happen.

Anyway, no panic OP as the amount is reasonably low. It definitely needs to be paid back but don't stress over it, they're not in business of making people destitute.

Jim2007

deisedude wrote: »

Frustrating that it being the public service I know nobody will be held accountable for fcuking up

Well you now one of the parties to the FU, who failed to check that their salary was in accordance with the contract.... so good luck with that....

Borzoi

deisedude wrote: »

Frustrating that it being the public service I know nobody will be held accountable for fcuking up

Explain that you'll happily repay it, once you get an apology from the responsable person - that should end it.

On a more serious note, all organisations and people make mistakes and are not supposed to be crucified for them. If this was the private sector the most likely event would be that 2018-2019 would be forgotten about as not worth the paperwork costs, an adjustment would be made for 2020 and everybody would move on. But it's semi state, so rules is rules. Offer to pay back at the ssme rate as monies were received. Make sure they clarify that you've no outstanding taxation obligation for the previous years due to their error

_Brian

This happens from time to time.

Just talk with them and make arrangements for an appropriate amount to be taken from her wages until it’s paid.
€15/week will see it repaid within a year.

BattleCorp

Before you agree to anything, don't take HR's word that there was an overpayment. They'd need to prove that there was an overpayment.

Get them to show you the calculations to prove that the money is owed.

Unfortunately, if money is owed, you'll have to set up a payment plan to pay it back.

No need to panic though, it's only €700 and will have feckall impact on your mortgage.

1hnr79jr65

BattleCorp wrote: »

Before you agree to anything, don't take HR's word that there was an overpayment. They'd need to prove that there was an overpayment.

Get them to show you the calculations to prove that the money is owed.

Unfortunately, if money is owed, you'll have to set up a payment plan to pay it back.

No need to panic though, it's only €700 and will have feckall impact on your mortgage.

On top of what said by poster quoted, also get a breakdown of pre and post tax value of overpayment. You are only required to pay back the post tax balance.

ibarelycare

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

On top of what said by poster quoted, also get a breakdown of pre and post tax value of overpayment. You are only required to pay back the post tax balance.

That's incorrect. If the overpayment was from the current year then the employee's gross pay is reduced by the gross amount of the overpayment.

It seems though from the OP that this overpayment is (at least partly) relating to previous years. If this is the case the gross amount must be deducted from their net pay. Once the overpayment is recouped in full, the employer can provide the employee with a statement outlining the situation, and the employee then has to apply directly to Revenue for a refund on the overpayment of tax and USC. They have to apply separately to the DEASP for overpayment of PRSI. So it's a bit of a hassle for an employee in a situation like this.

1hnr79jr65

ibarelycare wrote: »

That's incorrect. If the overpayment was from the current year then the employee's gross pay is reduced by the gross amount of the overpayment.

It seems though from the OP that this overpayment is (at least partly) relating to previous years. If this is the case the gross amount must be deducted from their net pay. Once the overpayment is recouped in full, the employer can provide the employee with a statement outlining the situation, and the employee then has to apply directly to Revenue for a refund on the overpayment of tax and USC. They have to apply separately to the DEASP for overpayment of PRSI. So it's a bit of a hassle for an employee in a situation like this.

I have had this issue for my staff on multiple occasions with a previous employer. Always calculated the post tax value to be deducted, this was even confirmed by our payroll,HR and union teams. I am unsure if they are wrong in this, however based on the feedback the onus is not on the employee to have to make recovery for mistake of employer.

While under EAOA they can get recovery, it is the company responsibility to rectify the situation.

ibarelycare

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I have had this issue for my staff on multiple occasions with a previous employer. Always calculated the post tax value to be deducted, this was even confirmed by our payroll,HR and union teams. I am unsure if they are wrong in this, however based on the feedback the onus is not on the employee to have to make recovery for mistake of employer.

While under EAOA they can get recovery, it is the company responsibility to rectify the situation.

It's outlined in Tax and Duty Manual 42-04-70

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-42/42-04-70.pdf

1hnr79jr65

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's outlined in Tax and Duty Manual 42-04-70

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-42/42-04-70.pdf

Seems former employer screwed themselves......and all give wrong info. Tnx for this info, will be handy in future.