Coronavirus Part II - Its arrived - We're Doomed!!! See OP for Mod warnings

Unearthly

Denmark have a 3rd case according to local media

Person was in Munich. Similar to one of the Swedish cases. Expect Germany to ramp up their confirmed cases soon

Azatadine

Would a 70 percent solution of isopropyl alcohol suffice to disinfect hands?

Duke of Url

Unearthly wrote: »

Denmark have a 3rd case according to local media

Person was in Munich. Similar to one of the Swedish cases. Expect Germany to ramp up their confirmed cases soon

Or no longer report cases.

MadYaker

Azatadine wrote: »

Would a 70 percent solution of isopropyl alcohol suffice to disinfect hands?

Yeah but not nice stuff to be washing your hands with. Dettol’s disinfectant hand soap will work too.

deathbomber

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Apparently face masks and hand gel are being sold out everywhere. Looking at the bottle of hand gel I have, it kills bacteria, it doesn't mention killing viruses. So is this any good at preventing catching this Corona virus. Before someone mentions hand washing and soap is good, it's not always possible to wash hands like after using a bus. So is hand gel any good?

face masks were sold out weeks ago and there has been a restriction supplying the general public for a good 4 weeks now, so once stocks were gone, they are gone. However we are in a fortunate position where our masks are made in Ireland inclusive of the crucial filter, i hear capacity is being ramped up to manufacture 3 million per week, obviously some would be exported but its a good position to be in. NHS imports most of their masks from China which at the moment is obviously a concern but i imagine their (UK) national reserve of product is quite large

Azatadine

MadYaker wrote: »

Yeah but not nice stuff to be washing your hands with. Dettol’s disinfectant hand soap will work too.

Yeah, was just thinking more about something to use when out and about.

wakka12

Canadian tourist infected in Egypt..country with one case

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Apparently face masks and hand gel are being sold out everywhere. Looking at the bottle of hand gel I have, it kills bacteria, it doesn't mention killing viruses. So is this any good at preventing catching this Corona virus. Before someone mentions hand washing and soap is good, it's not always possible to wash hands like after using a bus. So is hand gel any good?

60% alcohol kills a lot, hand sanitisers were touted during the swine flu pandemic and that's around the time public use of those type of products became mainstream (before this it was mainly only hospitals etc that used it).

There are drawbacks in that it also kills your normal good skin flora and strips moisture from skin so could leave you vunerable to other infections if overused.

I use it quite a bit at my job but at this time of year with the cold weather as well I find it makes my hands are fairly raw.

You could use skin wipes until you get to your destination.

Fleetwoodmac

deathbomber wrote: »

face masks were sold out weeks ago and there has been a restriction supplying the general public for a good 4 weeks now, so once stocks were gone, they are gone. However we are in a fortunate position where our masks are made in Ireland inclusive of the crucial filter, i hear capacity is being ramped up to manufacture 3 million per week, obviously some would be exported but its a good position to be in. NHS imports most of their masks from China which at the moment is obviously a concern but i imagine their (UK) national reserve of product is quite large

Apparently one of the factories in ireland are supplying solely to China.. an irish pharmacist told me this. They had contacted them directly to try and source. Pity.

Ohmeha

Malcolm Wrong Statistician wrote: »

The general attitude to controlling infectious disease in Ireland is bad. My kid was a preemie and his immune system wasn't fantastic during his first year. Needed steroids for respiratory infections, had one emergency and was admitted once. I avoided getting sick myself to avoid giving it to him.

I noticed how blase people were when it came to transmitting disease. Meetings at work in small unventilated rooms with people who were obviously unwell. I insisted on ventilation and kept anyone sick well away from me, which people complied with but you could tell they thought it was unreasonable. Pushed for people to work from home if they were sick too. Think I suggested the employer paid for and encouraged flu shots, which would have saved them more than it would have cost, but that didn't happen.

There will be more of the same with this, but at a national level. Most people won't be hit hard by it and will just continue as normal, not give a sh!t about spreading it. Most people respect people who go to work while sick more than someone who works from home or takes time off, which is ridiculous.

A colleague of mine was off sick on Thursday, walks back into office on Friday coughing like crazy blatantly still sick and wasn't told to go home. Leaflets on our doors everywhere about hygiene measures and half the office is coughing & sneezing without any tissues in sight all while chatting and joking about the coronavirus

Two thirds of people on the DART this week with colds/coughs are sneezing and coughing into their mobile, tablet, fists

Sadly I've think it's going to require this virus to officially arrive here and a mass amount of deaths for a chunk of our population to cop-on and get their ignorant heads out of the sand

Drumpot

megabomberman wrote: »

I reckon a big hurdle in people comprehending the impact of this illness is a lack of basic math skills;
- Not understanding basic percentages 'it's only 2% death rate', X20 the flu,
- ignoring that 5% of cases are critical/need respirators, and
- not being able to grasp that a disease twice as infectious as flu will spread exponentially quicker.

One other stat HSE spare capacity prior to the outbreak, less than zero.

Stay safe and don't be foolish enough to think you can disregard this and weather it like a bad cough.

There are so many things I have considered posting here but for numerous reasons I’ve posted less and less the more “people need to stop panicking” posts have been popping up. Whether it’s denial and/or ignorance, it’s unhelpful and these are the kind of people who won’t be ready, will cause problems with panic and who will make mistakes that lead to others getting infected.

This “sure the flu kills...” is Donald Trump level idiocy. Anybody who has been doing more then watching the headlines and listening to sound bites knows this, so anybody spouting that crap doesn’t know what they are talking about.

The fact is it’s spreading everywhere. The fact is that we don’t appear to be able to test it in a completely reliable manner. The fact is that it seems to be very easy to transmit. The fact is that there appears to be people able to spread it for weeks before showing symptoms. The fact is most If not all countries are taking this very very seriously. The fact is that our own health services have bought hundreds of thousands of masks and taken serious measures to PREPARE for what’s coming. None of the ignorant people can refute any of this paragraph because this is what’s happening, regardless of what they want to believe.

If you haven’t done any sort of preparation , you have been irresponsible at best. I don’t know how things are going to play out , only an idiot would presume that their crystal ball suggests everything is going to be just like normal. There is no logical reason to presume this given all the effects it’s had on other countries.

I was talking about this with our local pharmacist yesterday. If one person in a family gets the virus it could very well mean that all the family needs to isolates. This makes sense as if one person in a family has it , it means they have had it for a prolonged period of time and have most likely been in close proximity to their Loved ones for god knows how long without knowing. He was worried about all the healthy health workers dieing but I felt it’s more that they are worn out in crazy conditions, don’t get enough rest and when they inevitably get infected their bodies are just not rested enough to fight off the virus. Vitamin C and zinc supplements is what I’ve started to take to build up my immune system. Oh and trying to get some good rest.

So if my local pharmacist has to self isolate, he has to close down his pharmacy for at least a month. Now think of the knock on effects with doctors, healthcare workers, super markets, petrol stations, general office blocks, teachers etc. You prob only need one person in a school to get it and the whole school will prob be shut down. Again if one person has it, they have had it for an unknown period of time , probably infected others, before they have been isolated.

The good news is that most people will be fine. Some very severe and a percentage will die. The measures of lockdown are not necessarily to stop the spread ( as that does not look actually possible), it’s actually to slow down the spread. If everybody gets infected at the same time It’s a disaster and even worse so they want people to get infected in smaller numbers over a longer period of time.

Maybe things won’t be as bad in Ireland for some reason. Maybe the virus doesn’t affect us as much for some reason, this is possible. Or maybe things change a lot for a few months and a lot of things we don’t anticipate happen. To not do any sort of preparation is irresponsible and inconsiderate because those who are burying their heads will be the very people causing panic and taking less precautions that will affect others.

I’ve been so busy in work the last few days I haven’t been able to keep up the last 48 hours. But I have been around since relatively early on this virus so I feel I have decent general knowledge on the topic. When I wasn’t reading this thread and constantly reading up on the virus, I did start to think “maybe it won’t be so bad” and it was only when I started to look back at different news sources did it remind me that we are in the calm before the storm in Ireland so we still literally do not know how this will play out.

All the messages from any credible authority’s is not to panic but to PREPARE. What if you or your family have to self isolate for a month? What if certain services (pharmacy, doctor, local shop etc) are not available for a prolonged period of time? What if your child’s school closes? What if you go on holidays and can’t get back home for a prolonged period?

There are so many other questions to ask that involves imagining self isolation and wondering what you had wished you had done in advance. Preparing yourself mentally was a suggestion Dr Bruce Aylward said in https://youtu.be/XF6AZv8P3i4 . I did this by asking myself all the hard questions I could think of, but I feel if things get worse or one of my family gets the virus I will at least of given it some thought. This could potentially be a big shock to many of us so I feel I’ve gotten some of that potential shock out of my system (it’s actually an old Stoic philosophy - negative visualization). It’s not about getting depressed or down, it’s about trying to anticipate something bad that will or may happen. You can’t be fully prepared for what’s coming , but being somewhat emotionally ready can help.

I was due to meet a client During the week . They were in Italy (not north) with their partner up until just over a week ago. When they came home they phoned to meet up to review their protection (I’m a financial broker). I purposely made the appointment as far ahead as I could (8 days after returning) just as a precaution. The day we were due to meet they called and cancelled as they both were unwell and were concerned they might have the virus.

I have been contacting friends and family to warn them to act as if they might need to self isolate for a month. This is Important, particularly for elderly people and people with babies (Baby supplies). Get your medications stocked up for a couple of months. Check with your doctor that your meds will not have an adverse reaction with the virus (ie - that certain meds don’t potentially make getting the virus worse). I’ve made sure my mum is stocked up, enough fuel until summer and gotten a list of all her meds in case we need to get her medical help.

Educate yourself and don’t just look up information you want to believe. If you find something that backs up what you want to believe “this is all over blown”, try and find credible sources that counter your opinion and try to be objective. Shame on anybody who is taking a “well I’m gonna be fine, I’m not old” approach to this. You might be alright but you might infect somebody else who will die simply because you didn’t care/worry enough to be more careful and that includes preparing in advance.

Whatever happens it appears that most people will be fine. After a period of time there will be a new normal and life will carry on. But now is the time to PREPARE like all the authority’s and companies around the world are doing. You prepare in advance of a threat, if there is smoke get out if the house, you don’t know how bad the fire is and most of us are not in a position to assess a house on fire. Treat this the same way. Regardless of what you think, none of us know how bad the virus is going to affect us so take precautions and get ready in case it effects you worse then you think.

YFlyer

Azatadine wrote: »

Would a 70 percent solution of isopropyl alcohol suffice to disinfect hands?

I'm sure it would.

circadian

Azatadine wrote: »

Would a 70 percent solution of isopropyl alcohol suffice to disinfect hands?

Yeah that'll do the trick if say but stock up on hand moisturiser as well as it'll strip moisture from your skin.

Nijmegen

Great post, Drumpot. Further to this here’s a rather interesting paper by some academics on the risks of the “ah sure be grand” approach. https://www.academia.edu/41743064/Systemic_Risk_of_Pandemic_via_Novel_Pathogens_-_Coronavirus_A_Note

gozunda

wadacrack wrote: »

Needs a culture change, people going around saying theirs bad flu going around and everyone is getting a few months back. Like its a badge of honor. Just practice basic hygiene, good diet and drink water rather than blaming the HSE solely. People need to be accountable for their own lifestyle. Seeing so many posts from diabetic's and their are pretty young too, which is a surprise to me.

Just on that - Type one diabetics can be any age and yes includes young people - who must take insulin for life as their bodies cannot produce insulin. It has nothing to do with lifestyle.

Type two is more often seen in older people. The two conditions are often confused.

https://www.rcn.org.uk/clinical-topics/diabetes

Doctor Jimbob

Ohmeha wrote: »

A colleague of mine was off sick on Thursday, walks back into office on Friday coughing like crazy blatantly still sick and wasn't told to go home. Leaflets on our doors everywhere about hygiene measures and half the office is coughing & sneezing without any tissues in sight all while chatting and joking about the coronavirus

Two thirds of people on the DART this week with colds/coughs are sneezing and coughing into their mobile, tablet, fists

Sadly I think it's going to require this virus to officially arrive here and a mass amount of deaths for a chunk of our population to cop-on and get their ignorant heads out of the sand

Even as someone not overly worried about coronavirus, that attitude drives me demented. It's like people take pride in coming into work coughing up a lung, and I work somewhere we could easily work from home!

The flu shot is another one. My workplace pays for it, yet very few of the people I asked actually bothered getting it. There are even people talking about stocking up on supplies to prepare for a coronavirus outbreak who still haven't got the flu shot. It's one of the easiest things people could do to help (by reducing strain on hospitals, I know the flu shot won't help with the new virus) and people still won't do it.

MadYaker

People still banging on about face masks ffs. I guarantee every gobsh!te out there wearing a mask will think they’re grand and forget about washing their hands which is what actually stops the virus from spreading.

KingBobby

KingBobby wrote: »

There is a huge amount of incredibly selfish remarks I'm hearing every day saying things like "oh I'm not worried i'm not in an at-risk group" yes but how would you feel if you passed it on to a person receiving cancer treatment, elderly, pregnant women, people with asthma... so many people in this society are actually in the at risk groups and you could be responsible for them getting this and potentially not being able to fight it.

also foolish to believe that some others won't see them as even partially responsible for the deaths of their loved ones

Dark road to start to go down actually

Nijmegen

Ohmeha wrote: »

A colleague of mine was off sick on Thursday, walks back into office on Friday coughing like crazy blatantly still sick and wasn't told to go home. Leaflets on our doors everywhere about hygiene measures and half the office is coughing & sneezing without any tissues in sight all while chatting and joking about the coronavirus

Two thirds of people on the DART this week with colds/coughs are sneezing and coughing into their mobile, tablet, fists

Sadly I think it's going to require this virus to officially arrive here and a mass amount of deaths for a chunk of our population to cop-on and get their ignorant heads out of the sand

The approach is head in sand stuff. Even where not sick. I know of a company that has sent its employees home because someone who passed through from an overseas office is now sick abroad. A close relative who lives with one of the people isolated now as a result is in work telling everyone else about it. You’re a bit like “ehhhhh, so you’re saying if she has it you might have it? And you’re sitting here telling us all about it having a laugh?” I’m sure that chances are nobody gets sick in that original office as a result, but basically lax following of the isolation principals gives you the potential to spread far and wide when you had sufficient information to make a decision but chose to underplay the risk.

megabomberman

megabomberman wrote: »

I reckon a big hurdle in people comprehending the impact of this illness is a lack of basic math skills;
- Not understanding basic percentages 'it's only 2% death rate', X20 the flu,
- ignoring that 5% of cases are critical/need respirators, and
- not being able to grasp that a disease twice as infectious as flu will spread exponentially quicker.

One other stat HSE spare capacity prior to the outbreak, less than zero.

Stay safe and don't be foolish enough to think you can disregard this and weather it like a bad cough.

True enough... and there won't be a vaccine for roughly a year. I understand the need for sensible precautions, but unless you're single, live alone, and have no family.. it's going to be near impossible to put your life on hold for a year (or more) until this is resolved.

You can be infected, isolate yourself for a month, recover, and then be infected again. And again. There's no immunity and the lack of symptoms for many means there's a constant risk of transferring the virus to others.

Sensible precautions, yes... but there's plenty of people going overboard on this thread too.... and not seriously considering just how long a wait there will be before a vaccine is developed and distributed.

TBH, it makes mores sense to isolate and contain the major risk groups away from the general population... Not continue to have everyone spread out and vulnerable. With Irelands small population, it would be possible to have the major risk groups protected in designated areas, while the rest of us continue working away. Seek to keep the groups separate. A bit draconian perhaps, but far more sensible than what's currently happening.

Wibbs

deathbomber wrote: »

The testing is done in UCD and results are within 24 hours and are not faulty.

Well they're not faulty, but false negatives are an issue. People with the virus that come back as a negative, even when they're obviously symptomatic. 5% IIRC. That Chinese doctor whistleblower who later sadly died was one example. A run of negative results until he finally got a positive. Now we're hearing of folks who have recovered from the virus testing positive again weeks later.

*Personal musings* I have the feeling that when the dust is settled we'll discover that the testing isn't as accurate as it appears to be and that other viral infections may trigger a positive. This might explain the odd nature of this particular virus. IE a wildly variable incubation time and a helluva range of symptom presentation. If you look at similar viruses like MERS and SARS this variability wasn't present to nearly the same degree. If you caught either of them you came down with it in the same timeframe and you were clearly ill. They were much more predictable across the board, hence my musings that we're still in the learning stages with this coronavirus.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

People still banging on about face masks ffs. I guarantee every gobsh!te out there wearing a mask will think they’re grand and forget about washing their hands which is what actually stops the virus from spreading.

Ahh yes, because the virus only spreads through physical contact? Fact is, that we don't know for certain how the virus spreads...

The chan chan man

I wonder have journal.ie finished cleaning the floors after all those loads were blown the day the first case was confirmed ‘on the island’..

The zombie apocalypse style media hype is absolutely cringeworthy! The virus itself not even that bad!! Did anyone see Prof Luke O’Neill on Tubridy last night? Nice to get a rational calm perspective on this nonsense. I won’t be cancelling my holiday after all.

ceadaoin.

As an aside I was in a Target store today and noticed a lot of the shelves were nearly empty. Not in the sections that you'd expect because people are stocking up essentials (no one seems to care here yet) but stuff like homewares. Out of interest I looked at the ones which had hardly any left and sure enough, made in china. The ones that had plenty of stock left were from india. That's just one pretty much insignificant example of how the lockdown has affected the supply chain but plain to see.

Lucyfur

Azatadine wrote: »

Would a 70 percent solution of isopropyl alcohol suffice to disinfect hands?

If you mix it with aloe vera and vitamin E it'll be a little less harsh on your hands.

The White Wolf

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Older people and those with underlying illnesses will probably take up most of the cull. Nice one.

Yeah.....great stuff.

megabomberman

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Apparently in 80% of cases you will be fine, mild symptoms. However if you are in the 20% you will be quite sick. With the non measures in place to stop this illness from spreading, the 20% appears to be the accepted amount of collateral damage.

Older people and those with underlying illnesses will probably take up most of the cull. Nice one.

Say that when your loved one is at home on the couch gasping for their last air, waiting for a phone call that never comes from the 'HSE hotline', hospitals completely broken and panicked people arriving in their droves at emergency rooms demanding to the security staff that someone sees to their parent/loved one.

Now imagine that this isn't some time in 2021 but sometime before Easter, the shock to the system is going to cause national trauma, official Ireland of the soft landing is failing us again. A billion euro war chest should already be released to CPO private buildings for use as containment centres.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

People still banging on about face masks ffs. I guarantee every gobsh!te out there wearing a mask will think they’re grand and forget about washing their hands which is what actually stops the virus from spreading.

Sweeping statement of nonsense

MadYaker

Wibbs wrote: »

Well they're not faulty, but false negatives are an issue. People with the virus that come back as a negative, even when they're obviously symptomatic. 5% IIRC. That Chinese doctor whistleblower who later sadly died was one example. A run of negative results until he finally got a positive. Now we're hearing of folks who have recovered from the virus testing positive again weeks later.

*Personal musings* I have the feeling that when the dust is settled we'll discover that the testing isn't as accurate as it appears to be and that other viral infections may trigger a positive. This might explain the odd nature of this particular virus. IE a wildly variable incubation time and a helluva range of symptom presentation. If you look at similar viruses like MERS and SARS this variability wasn't present to nearly the same degree. If you caught either of them you came down with it in the same timeframe and you were clearly ill. They were much more predictable across the board, hence my musings that we're still in the learning stages with this coronavirus.

The testing uses samples of the viruses DNA. All different viruses have different DNA so it’s not really possible for a different virus to be identified as this particular corona virus. The testing involves PCR assays. You can read about it here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction

Drumpot

MadYaker wrote: »

People still banging on about face masks ffs. I guarantee every gobsh!te out there wearing a mask will think they’re grand and forget about washing their hands which is what actually stops the virus from spreading.

Yeh there seems to be a lot of innacurate information about the use of masks. I believe most masks are not 100% reliable to stop transmission. They do help people who might put their hand to their faces (as mask will be over face which you would hope would potentially reduce hand to face transmission). They also seem to be something that those infected should wear so if they cough or sneeze it limits how far the virus spreads I presume. (this is my layman understanding anyways)