Coronavirus Part II - Its arrived - We're Doomed!!! See OP for Mod warnings

MarkY91

Canceling the rugby game is absolutely pointless if they aren't canceling flights from Italy too.

On 7th of march, there will be thousands of Italians mixing with locals in Dublin...public transport, squashed together in temple bar, shopping on Grafton/Henry Street.

Yes a lot will now cancel their trip but a lot won't which still leaves thousands of possibly infected Italians on the way for their Guinness

odyssey06

Ludo wrote: »

All health services will have this issue. It is not a problem unique to Ireland. The UK advice is not that dissimilar to the Irish advice. Some schools there have just chosen to react differently and sent kids home as the advice is vague.

Given we already have a trolley crisis when flu hits, I think we are more likely to hit that capacity issue earlier than other health services. It's reasonable for to be more concerned here about quantity \ capacity.

The UK advice I saw was in clear contrast to the Irish one. Stay at home if returned from the affected areas even if you have no symptoms. In Ireland it was stressing only if you have symptoms.

splinter65

gozunda wrote: »

On this. Both John Hopkins and the CDC confirm that the Corona virus can be spread from person to person through 'droplets in the air from an infected person coughing, sneezing or talking'

For those using public transport or similar which puts them into 'close contact' for any extended periods with those 'coughing, sneezing or talking' - properly fitted N95 face masks at least provide a basic level of protection - especially where there is no way of knowing who may be carrying the virus

It therefore makes fek all sense to state to "do not use a face mask if you feel well and do not have symptoms"

The current advice presumes that those who do not feel well or have symptoms will automatically use a face mask. In all likelihood most people will he unaware or indeed may not even bother wearing a facemask to protect others. And unfortunately that's more likley than otherwise.

Properly fitted N95 facemasks do provide some protection against droplets in the air. They also stop people from touching their face.

Learning how to fit facemasks properly is not rocket science. Plenty of good instructional PPE videos on the intranet.

Doctor from the WHO has just been on BBC Breakfast and said that the only people that should be using face masks are those who have a transmittable infection to stop them from transmitting it.
She also said that once your mask gets wet from your breath it is useless so you need to change your mask multiple times during the day.
Seemed like a very sensible woman to be honest.

Ludo

odyssey06 wrote: »

Given we already have a trolley crisis when flu hits, I think we are more likely to hit that capacity issue earlier than other health services. It's reasonable for to be more concerned here about quantity \ capacity.

Really? Google "winter 2019 trolley nhs". This is not a uniquely Irish problem. This winter the problem was particularly bad due to the bad flu going round and then the election made it such a big issue.

odyssey06 wrote: »

The UK advice I saw was in clear contrast to the Irish one. Stay at home if returned from the affected areas even if you have no symptoms. In Ireland it was stressing only if you have symptoms.

It is really not clearer: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

They only say to isolate if you have been to the special quarantine zones. Or unless you have been to other areas of Northern Italy AND have symptoms. Very similar to here.

Nonoperational

Ludo wrote: »

Thank you. With all the crap in the media lately due to the election about how terrible the health service is, you are gonna have a hard time convincing people of anything good about it. It has been blown out of all proportion for political motives.
That is a pity as all health services have issues..it is their nature. Any interaction I have had with the health service here (quite a few for elderly family members) has always been fantastic...well as fantastic as any trip to an A+E can be really.

We have a multifactorial capacity issue particularly regarding OPD and non acute issues. There are many reasons for that. Mismanagement, lack of education of the public as to what should require a hospital visit, lack of resources, lack of doctors and nurses etc.

But when you are in the system acutely it is good. We have fantastic access to expensive biologic medications basically for free that many other developed nations don't, we have in my opinion great staff on the frontline, we have excellent acute care programmes for heart attack, stroke, trauma which are all being developed on an ongoing basis as we speak. I've done two cases in the past week where we used high tech laser equipment at a cost of thousands of euro per case to get better results for the patient.

I don't want to play down the potential seriousness of this. Of course if 2000 people suddenly need ICU care then we are in a serious situation. That would equally be the case in any country in the world. Nowhere has hundreds of ICU beds idle, that would be a massive waste of resources.

But we have options also. We can prioritise, we can use NiV on the wards, we can cancel non urgent procedures, we can transfer to private hospitals. I know my colleagues and I can guarantee the vast majority will be there to front up to this if it comes. We won't be calling in sick and we'll do our best like we do every day.

It's human nature that on threads like this healthcare workers will be playing it down a little and the public will play it up. We unfortunately see people die. Recently a 30 year old lady died under my care of flu. People die every week unfortunately so you become desensitised to it. Thats why we tend not to completely freak out about this. Its one issue in a long list of issues that can cause problems.

Exclamation Marc

splinter65 wrote: »

Doctor from the WHO has just been on BBC Breakfast and said that the only people that should be using face masks are those who have a transmittable infection to stop them from transmitting it.
She also said that once your mask gets wet from your breath it is useless so you need to change your mask multiple times during the day.
Seemed like a very sensible woman to be honest.

There's also a mask v respirator distinction that has to be made. Your bog standard surgical masks are generally useless (ie the ones with straps and cover part of your face that just block your mouth and nose).

The n95 and ffp3 respirators are quite good at protecting people. They generally have small valves to let air out so they don't build up with moisture. The concern with those masks though is complacency, that people wearing them think they're fully immune or people who don't remove them properly and clean the front when taking them off. Those masks in tandem with good hand washing and healthy practices are effective in materially reducing risk. Not removing it, sure, but good reduction of risk.

Macy0161

Ludo wrote: »

Really? Google "winter 2019 trolley nhs". This is not a uniquely Irish problem. This winter the problem was particularly bad due to the bad flu going round and then the election made it such a big issue.

Or just this to this morning's "Today" programme on BBC Radio 4. Only the accents were different from any Irish health service coverage regarding A&E.

Ninthlife

Ludo wrote: »

Really? Google "winter 2019 trolley nhs". This is not a uniquely Irish problem. This winter the problem was particularly bad due to the bad flu going round and then the election made it such a big issue.



It is really not clearer: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

They only say to isolate if you have been to the special quarantine zones. Or unless you have been to other areas of Northern Italy AND have symptoms. Very similar to here.

Sky News had Public Health England Medical Director being interviewed. They are telling people who have been in any affected country to self isolate.

HSE say carry on till your sick

IRFU want to pack a few thousand potentially infected people into a stadium in the capital

Exclamation Marc

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

The irfu want a specific reason to cancel the game?are they having a laugh or what.

Completely understandable. If the tourists are not prohibited from being in the country, why can't they attend a game? This doesn't stop them wandering around the city. They're going to pack up en masse elsewhere in the city. They're sure as hell not going to disperse individually to remote locations.

To cancel a rugby game without any reasonable logic or separate measures is pure grandstanding. What about gigs? Parades? Why is the rugby the target? Plenty of people from affected countries arriving here without issue. Its bizarre from Harris to target one single event like its the only risk.

Ludo

Ninthlife wrote: »

Sky News had Public Health England Medical Director being interviewed. They are telling people who have been in any affected country to self isolate.

HSE say carry on till your sick

IRFU want to pack a few thousand potentially infected people into a stadium in the capital

I actually posted the link to their advice above in the post you quoted. It says:
"to other parts of northern Italy (anywhere north of Pisa, Florence and Rimini), Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar since 19 February and have a cough, high temperature or shortness of breath"...i.e. carry on till your sick.

They may be changing that now but that makes it less clear if they say one thinkg on Sky but another on their official website.
Yet the Irish are the only ones with a problem :rolleyes:

TomSweeney

Morning from Barcelona, I already noticed metro and streets emptier this morning .... from 1 case

Can you imagine it in a weeks time when we have ~1000 cases and ~100 deaths !!!

Literally the end of the world is coming ...

DrumSteve

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Completely understandable. If the tourists are not prohibited from being in the country, why can't they attend a game? This doesn't stop them wandering around the city. They're going to pack up en masse elsewhere in the city. They're sure as hell not going to disperse individually to remote locations.

To cancel a rugby game without any reasonable logic or separate measures is pure grandstanding. What about gigs? Parades? Why is the rugby the target? Plenty of people from affected countries arriving here without issue. Its bizarre from Harris to target one single event like its the only risk.

Rugby is probably the target because it will have the highest concentration of Italians.

DrumSteve

TomSweeney wrote: »

Morning from Barcelona, I already noticed metro and streets emptier this morning .... from 1 case

Can you imagine it in a weeks time when we have ~1000 cases and ~100 deaths !!!

Literally the end of the world is coming ...

Easy there, sure SK has 1200+ cases since this started and 12 deaths so far.

Ninthlife

Ludo wrote: »

I actually posted the link to their advice above in the post you quoted. It says:
"to other parts of northern Italy (anywhere north of Pisa, Florence and Rimini), Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar since 19 February and have a cough, high temperature or shortness of breath"...i.e. carry on till your sick.

They may be changing that now but that makes it less clear if they say one thinkg on Sky but another on their official website.
Yet the Irish are the only ones with a problem :rolleyes:

Its on the yellow breaking news ticker tape on Sky News.

Im not saying its uniquely an Irish issue but some consistency across neighbouring countries might be of help. They have been watching this develop in China so having a joint plan especially in the EU wouldnt be too far a stretch.

CBear1993

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Completely understandable. If the tourists are not prohibited from being in the country, why can't they attend a game? This doesn't stop them wandering around the city. They're going to pack up en masse elsewhere in the city. They're sure as hell not going to disperse individually to remote locations.

To cancel a rugby game without any reasonable logic or separate measures is pure grandstanding. What about gigs? Parades? Why is the rugby the target? Plenty of people from affected countries arriving here without issue. Its bizarre from Harris to target one single event like its the only risk.

Just a thought; they’re playing Italy.

timmyntc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Completely understandable. If the tourists are not prohibited from being in the country, why can't they attend a game? This doesn't stop them wandering around the city. They're going to pack up en masse elsewhere in the city. They're sure as hell not going to disperse individually to remote locations.

To cancel a rugby game without any reasonable logic or separate measures is pure grandstanding. What about gigs? Parades? Why is the rugby the target? Plenty of people from affected countries arriving here without issue. Its bizarre from Harris to target one single event like its the only risk.

Because it's a mass gathering specifically involving people from an area at risk.
There are definitely far more infected in northern italy than reported also, given that the infection has spread to quite a few countries with Northern Italy as the source.

Fr_Dougal

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

There's also a mask v respirator distinction that has to be made. Your bog standard surgical masks are generally useless (ie the ones with straps and cover part of your face that just block your mouth and nose).

The n95 and ffp3 respirators are quite good at protecting people. They generally have small valves to let air out so they don't build up with moisture. The concern with those masks though is complacency, that people wearing them think they're fully immune or people who don't remove them properly and clean the front when taking them off. Those masks in tandem with good hand washing and healthy practices are effective in materially reducing risk. Not removing it, sure, but good reduction of risk.

And the N95 masks are the equivalent of a P2 mask over here.

drunkmonkey

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

It could well be for insurance reasons.

I checked with my insurance company yesterday what happens if I need to close the business due to coronavirus, I'm covered for loss of trading for 3mts but it needs to closed by the state/hse/council etc not my own concerns. Harris needs to call it one way or they other, businesses won't be covered for self isolating.

TheAnalyst_

timmyntc wrote: »

Because it's a mass gathering specifically involving people from an area at risk.
There are definitely far more infected in northern italy than reported also, given that the infection has spread to quite a few countries with Northern Italy as the source.

They'll still be flying over and hanging out in the same few temple bar pubs. Serie A games involving teams from those areas are still happening as away fixtures.

Unearthly

2nd confirmed case in Madrid less than 24 hours. Champions league match tonight there as well

A Knight of Ireland

Mic 1972 wrote: »

this sounds bit racist and probably not even true

I wasn't being racist. I was stating a fact which I witnessed. You can call McQuillians yourself and ask them:mad:

Ludo

Ninthlife wrote: »

Its on the yellow breaking news ticker tape on Sky News.

Im not saying its uniquely an Irish issue but some consistency across neighbouring countries might be of help. They have been watching this develop in China so having a joint plan especially in the EU wouldnt be too far a stretch.

Ah come on now. They are obviously updating theit policy as we speak. Website not even updated yet and you expect the HSE to immediately ape them before it is even updated? Seriously?

And joint plan in EU? then why bring UK into it. They ain't in the EU.

TheAnalyst_

Unearthly wrote: »

2nd confirmed case in Madrid less than 24 hours. Champions league match tonight there as well

Ha, exaxtly. Juventus are playing away in Lyon and will be bringing a decent bunch of fans. That is the exact same scenario.

A Knight of Ireland

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Don't even need to look at the post history, look at the user name.

Whats wrong with me username? If we were to all be judged on our username, you would be some Billy Ray Cyrus loving gob****e. Now lets stay on the topic

pc7

All the new European cases seem to have come from northern Italian contact, is that due to the reason the virus was circulating freely (asymptomatic?) in that population likely for a few weeks(hence the cluster). People left and traveled and now showing symptoms? Just trying to get my head around it.

Ninthlife

Ludo wrote: »

Ah come on now. They are obviously updating theit policy as we speak. Website not even updated yet and you expect the HSE to immediately ape them before it is even updated? Seriously?

And joint plan in EU? then why bring UK into it. They ain't in the EU.

I expect the HSE not to tell people returning from an affected area to just carry on til you get sick.

Self quarantine has been talked about since it started in China so its nothing new

No youre being pedantic over member states. EU, EEA or just part of Europe as a geographical area

Some joint thinking on handling the issue isnt a mammoth task

SusanC10

pc7 wrote: »

All the new European cases seem to have come from northern Italian contact, is that due to the reason the virus was circulating freely (asymptomatic?) in that population likely for a few weeks(hence the cluster). People left and traveled and now showing symptoms? Just trying to get my head around it.

Have the Italian Authorities found Patient Zero for Italy yet ?

Sweet.Science

Why isnt the airport in lockdown?

Lashes28

One dead in France another case confirmed also

pc7

SusanC10 wrote: »

Have the Italian Authorities found Patient Zero for Italy yet ?

No clue, its just seems mad how far its spreading from one cluster.