Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

Durtburd

VAT question

If I buy a vat qualifying car in the UK, which is over 6 months old but has less than 6000km on clocks, so VAT would be charged when importing to Ireland, and I use form VAT411 to pay no VAT in the UK on transaction...

I then do some miles in the car and hit the 6k km mark before my VRT date...

Would I escape paying VAT in ireland too?

This could result in a huge saving.

Just read this in revenue.ie VRT manual

"6.6 Vehicles that are "not new" for VAT purposes
A vehicle that, for VAT purposes, is a used (not new) vehicle acquired in another MS, is not subject to the payment of VAT at the time of registration under any circumstances, even where it has been removed from an exemption regime, e.g. diplomatic exemption, in another MS."

deezell

If you could, we'd all be doing it.

L-M

Am I wrong in saying a privately individual just pays the UK VAT and that’s the end of it?

How can a UK dealership null the VAT for a private person?

I bought wheels there last year and had awful greif getting them 0 VAT even with a vat number

Durtburd

deezell wrote: »

If you could, we'd all be doing it.

I have the car bought with 0 vat in the uk thanks to VAT411 and some persistence in getting the dealer to research that and make sure its alright.

You're saying the vrt centre will charge me vat regardless of mileage and age if they see 0 uk vat on the invoice?
I know that by rights this should be the practice. But the vrt manual seems to say otherwise?

deezell

It's not 'used with less than 6000km.

Durtburd

yes, at time of sale the car is a 'new means of transport' due to the low mileage.

But I want to tour around the UK for a bit before import. Odometer happens to end up at 6100km before I get to the VRT centre...

Isambard

what he's saying is there could be a loophole between a less than 6000 km (6+ month old) qualifying car with VAT recoverable in the UK and the same car presented in Ireland for VRT with an extra couple of thou km put up to push it over 6000 and thus VAT free. I don't know if you can do this

deezell

Durtburd wrote: »

yes, at time of sale the car is a 'new means of transport' due to the low mileage.

But I want to tour around the UK for a bit before import. Odometer happens to end up at 6100km before I get to the VRT centre...

You can't do that without paying the UK VAT. You have to put it on a truck and export it. Besides, your invoice will show VAT unpaid, and milage at the time, making it 'new, hence exportable as a new vehicle without VAT, and therefore liable for VAT at 23% on the UK invoice price.
Like I said, if that loophole existed, not one person would buy a new car in Ireland.
What you can do is pay the UK VAT and drive around there or here till over 6k miles, then you won't have to pay the extra 3% (or 1%?) VAT. I'm not sure if a car deemed 'new' has an additional previoud owner recorded on the irish reg cert, whereas 'used' does.

Durtburd

deezell wrote: »

You can't do that without paying the UK VAT. You have to put it on a truck and export it. Besides, your invoice will show VAT unpaid, and milage at the time, making it 'new, hence exportable as a new vehicle without VAT, and therefore liable for VAT at 23% on the UK invoice price.
Like I said, if that loophole existed, not one person would buy a new car in Ireland.
What you can do is pay the UK VAT and drive around there or here till over 6k miles, then you won't have to pay the extra 3% (or 1%?) VAT. I'm not sure if a car deemed 'new' has an additional previoud owner recorded on the irish reg cert, whereas 'used' does.

No you don't, you have 2 months to export out of the UK and are fine to drive it during those 2 months. Like I said, I have the car bought and paid 0 vat on it in the UK. I drove it off the dealer's lot with X plates.
All I have left to do is present at VRT centre. I'm wondering if it qould be worth racking up some miles before the appointment!

There is nothing the VRT manual that stipulates that just because vat has not been paid in the country of purchase, VAT must be paid upon registration in ireland, in respect of vehicles. There is a mention of this rule for 'non-vehicles' e.g. ATVs dirt bikes.

I'm aware that the way VAT works, this certainly SHOULD be the case. But its not in the VRT manual and that is all NCTS staff have to go on when you turn up to register, as far as I'm aware.

username?!

username?! wrote: »

Does anyone have experience with Revolut to UK bank transfer?

Both the bank and Revolut are part of the UK "Faster Payments" and it mentions the payments are instant if not within 2 hours.

I'm buying a car in the UK tomorrow and plan to do the transfer after viewing the car. I don't want to end up hanging around or worse still not being able to take the car due to payment not being recieved.

Any input would be great.

Follow on from the above.

I picked up the car yesterday and made the transfer (15K+ GBP) and it was in their Barclays account instantly. Revolut really can't be beat for purchasing a car via a bank transfer in the UK, shockingly good.

username?!

Next question from me. Does anyone know why OSMP (new price) on the calculator is always a bit lower than the actual cost of a car new? My exact car isn't on the calculator but a very similar model is, but it's about 10k cheaper.

I'm hoping my car get a similar "discount".

deezell

Durtburd wrote: »

No you don't, you have 2 months to export out of the UK and are fine to drive it during those 2 months. Like I said, I have the car bought and paid 0 vat on it in the UK. I drove it off the dealer's lot with X plates.
All I have left to do is present at VRT centre. I'm wondering if it qould be worth racking up some miles before the appointment!

There is nothing the VRT manual that stipulates that just because vat has not been paid in the country of purchase, VAT must be paid upon registration in ireland, in respect of vehicles. There is a mention of this rule for 'non-vehicles' e.g. ATVs dirt bikes.

I'm aware that the way VAT works, this certainly SHOULD be the case. But its not in the VRT manual and that is all NCTS staff have to go on when you turn up to register, as far as I'm aware.

The VAT liability won't go away if you get to register the car without paying it. Let us know what happens at the VRT centre. You might slip under the radar, who knows, but remember, you could be crucified if it came to light. VAT, penalty and interest.

bs2014

username?! wrote: »

Next question from me. Does anyone know why OSMP (new price) on the calculator is always a bit lower than the actual cost of a car new? My exact car isn't on the calculator but a very similar model is, but it's about 10k cheaper.

I'm hoping my car get a similar "discount".

My understanding for new cars is the Omsp is 90% of the RRP. I could stand corrected.

danoriordan1402

username?! wrote: »

Follow on from the above.

I picked up the car yesterday and made the transfer (15K+ GBP) and it was in their Barclays account instantly. Revolut really can't be beat for purchasing a car via a bank transfer in the UK, shockingly good.

Good to know as I will be doing similar soon, around 20k sterling - did you have to check with the dealer in advance if you could pay via Revolut?

L-M

bs2014 wrote: »

My understanding for new cars is the Omsp is 90% of the RRP. I could stand corrected.

Its 92 percent for the basis of VRT.

username?!

bs2014 wrote: »

My understanding for new cars is the Omsp is 90% of the RRP. I could stand corrected.

That's makes alot of sense in the figures I'm seeing actually. I wonder why that is?

username?!

danoriordan1402 wrote: »

Good to know as I will be doing similar soon, around 20k sterling - did you have to check with the dealer in advance if you could pay via Revolut?

It's not a "Revolut" transfer. It's a bank transfer using Revolut as an English bank. Once you setup a GBP account in the app you then have bank / sort details that will work in the UK's "Faster Payments" system.

deezell

username?! wrote: »

That's makes alot of sense in the figures I'm seeing actually. I wonder why that is?

For s cash sale without a trade in, to fleet owners and the like, 10% was about the discount you could expect from the inflated RRP. This inflation was there to make a trade in offer to a private customer look decent. In the distant past a private buyer could get close to this discpunt for cash in hand, if he could afford to sell his own car privately, but as time went by dealers operated cartels and had rigid cash pricing for consumers. There was a court case about this once over Ford dealers price fixing., secret meetings in midlands hotels etc. Smaller rural dealers on many brands risked losing their franchise if they didn't tow the line, but it was possible sometimes to find a dealer anxious for a sale. I bought new a few times without a trade in, my own finance arranged, but only in the 80s did I get near this discount, and again in 2002, about 9%. I last bought brand new here in 2006, cash deal, but it was a bit more exotic, an Alfa GT, there wasn't 10% to be had off, but a decent discount nonetheless. I'm not sure what pricing model is used now by dealers, but new cars are becoming supermarket items, so margins may be tighter. After the Alfa I reckoned buying brand new here with a trade in is a mugs game. In a two car household it's easy-ish to flog one, then head off for a replacement with cash, here or the UK. That's why SIMI has worked so hard to StyMIe this self help method.

bs2014

deezell wrote: »

For s cash sale without a trade in, to fleet owners and the like, 10% was about the discount you could expect from the inflated RRP. This inflation was there to make a trade in offer to a private customer look decent. In the distant past a private buyer could get close to this discpunt for cash in hand, if he could afford to sell his own car privately, but as time went by dealers operated cartels and had rigid cash pricing for consumers. There was a court case about this once over Ford dealers price fixing., secret meetings in midlands hotels etc. Smaller rural dealers on many brands risked losing their franchise if they didn't tow the line, but it was possible sometimes to find a dealer anxious for a sale. I bought new a few times without a trade in, my own finance arranged, but only in the 80s did I get near this discount, and again in 2002, about 9%. I last bought brand new here in 2006, cash deal, but it was a bit more exotic, an Alfa GT, there wasn't 10% to be had off, but a decent discount nonetheless. I'm not sure what pricing model is used now by dealers, but new cars are becoming supermarket items, so margins may be tighter. After the Alfa I reckoned buying brand new here with a trade in is a mugs game. In a two car household it's easy-ish to flog one, then head off for a replacement with cash, here or the UK. That's why SIMI has worked so hard to StyMIe this self help method.

That my understanding of it few years ago when I was in the trade. That said, its bizarre on used cars the VRT doesnt be based on 90% of the RRP listed on say carzone

colm_mcm

bs2014 wrote: »

That my understanding of it few years ago when I was in the trade. That said, its bizarre on used cars the VRT doesnt be based on 90% of the RRP listed on say carzone

The VRT on a used car is based on a pretty basic algorithm that takes into account new OMSP, a depreciation code, and an adjustment for km/month over the cars life. It’s openly available online if you go looking.

There are a few anomalies though - a 60000 mile January 2017 car can have higher VRT than an identical December 2017 car with the same mileage because of the devaluation based on mileage per month.

deezell

Yes, that's a tip I mentioned some time ago. At a certain milage, you'll do better to import a later year car. You'll pay a bit less VRT, yet get say a 172 plate, so win win.
The depreciation rates are highly variable, but ultimately are based on historical used sale value, so Donedeal does have a role. If you import a non listed model, a rare variant that has yet to be imported, or a car whose variant names are different in the UK to Irish distributor variants, you might well support your application for or appeal against a VRT estimate with examples from DD and other sites, if you can find the exact or closest model and spec.

French Toast

Looking at importing a Civic EP3 Type R in the coming weeks or months. Relatively inexperienced with the process, so all advice welcome.

Have people bought cars off the back of a HPI or similar check without having seen them in the flesh? How did it work out? The idea of having eirtrans or whoever land the car land in Dublin without having to travel out there sounds excellent, but are you taking a big risk?

colm_mcm

I’m not sure I’d buy an older car blind. Fair enough a 5 series from a BMW main dealer, or a car from the auctions that had a detailed report.

deezell

Given that it's a 2001-2005 car, you would be well advised to get a report, but it's only one car. How many can you afford to get checked? Maybe a day in the UK in a hired car and try and see 2 or 3?
Btw, some early models, 2001 -2003 have no or high (100) Nox quoted on Emissionsfinder.com, but 2005 as low as 28. This is a difference of €140 and €600 on top of the VRT CO2 charge, so make sure you have a Nox figure on the V5 cert of the car. If it's 80+, or not quoted, you pay the max €600, which is almost as much as the CO2 charge.

bazz26

It certainly would be worth getting the car inspected. It wouldn't be unheard of for a car like a Civic Type R to have seen the wrong side of a ditch at some point in it's life. Just because it doesn't show up on a history report doesn't mean it hasn't been in an accident and repaired. It might not have been repaired through an insurance company so may not show up on a history report.

deezell

Though I did see one advertised as "one careful lady owner". Probably an old dear, just used it to collect her pension, 0-60 in 5s ideal for getting to the post office first.

French Toast

Thanks for the replies folks. I'll certainly keep that note about the Nox charge on earlier models in mind.

For now I suppose I'll keep an eye on the classifieds out there and see if something clean looking with low miles comes up.

ando

How are people importing while Covid restrictions are happening? Am I right in saying that if I go to the UK to buy a car over the next few days I'll have to self isolate for the 14 days on return?

Isambard

ando wrote: »

How are people importing while Covid restrictions are happening? Am I right in saying that if I go to the UK to buy a car over the next few days I'll have to self isolate for the 14 days on return?

you are quite correct but I'm guessing no one does.

Wildly Boaring

Isambard wrote: »

you are quite correct but I'm guessing no one does.

I imported from the north.

Was eyeing up 2 cars in England.
Was going to get RSA inspection and had transport back organised.
I had no plans to set foot in England or Wales.

I know another guy just imported a Merc. Bought from main dealer. They delivered to near Holyhead. He paid haulier to collect.