Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

wrcarter

reubenreuben wrote: »

Reading this now, maybe we should start driving on the right.

Agreed. Anyone got any cheap e30 M3s? 🀣🀣

road_high

lomb wrote: »

It's going to be like Cuba here soon for cars, hello Pedro that's a mighty fine 1956 Cadillac! Cars will be like the broom stick, it's had 3 engines and 5 gearboxes , but it's good as new...

I don’t think so. While I think the new import situation is a bit crap, the average Irish new car from a main dealer bought here is a lot better specced than it used to be. For the ordinary bread and butter stuff the differences are in specs are often fairly minimal now. It’s the higher end premium makes where the lack of U.K. imports would get most acutely felt I think? I would love to see leasing get a lot more competitive here- that’s how it’s done in the U.K. these days in the main and why people on fairly ordinary salaries can afford very nice cars- they’re merely paying a monthly lease charge to drive it. If they had to stump up the sticker price it would be very different. Car makers have become more like lending institutions.
I digress a bit, I am genuinely confused by the whole thing tbh though

declan123

Isambard wrote: »

He's a dealer, you suggested all NI residents would have to pay VAT

The answer is Yes, I bought one a couple of years ago ex VAT. They are owned by a company (the dealer) so are VAT qualifying

L-M

Marcusm wrote: »

Care to explain why not? What non-VAT registered person will they have been sold to?

Because as soon as a car is registered to a dealer it becomes VAT margin

Vicxas

Maybe it is time we started driving on the right.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I can see the government having to do some sort of U-turn on imports as revenue from VRT is going to go through the floor. I was thinking of changing this year and would have been importing a car as I wont drive a diesel and you cant get decent petrol cars here so import was my only choice. VRT would have been in the region of €5000 inc nox etc however i'm now simply noyt going to bother changing at all, i'll keep the car I have and drive it into the ground and I imagine there are many other people in a similar frame of mind.

On average there have been roughly 100k cars imported from the UK each year for the last number of years, that figure is going to drop to a few thousand tops, i'd imagine. People buying used imports do so because they cant afford to buy new cars here and that isn't going to change, the general population is not going to suddenly start buying new cars just because they cant get a used car from the UK, they'll buy a used car here (which generates zero revenue for the state coffers) so they're going to have to do something about it. The sensible thing would be to cut VRT on used cars to offset the VAT or zero or drastically reduce the VAT on used cars. The next 12 months will be interesting when they start to see the massive drop in revenue and when the country is on its knees revenue wise due to PUP and loss of revenue from lock downs, an easy revenue source would have been car imports....

gally74

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I can see the government having to do some sort of U-turn on imports as revenue from VRT is going to go through the floor. I was thinking of changing this year and would have been importing a car as I wont drive a diesel and you cant get decent petrol cars here so import was my only choice. VRT would have been in the region of €5000 inc nox etc however i'm now simply noyt going to bother changing at all, i'll keep the car I have and drive it into the ground and I imagine there are many other people in a similar frame of mind.

On average there have been roughly 100k cars imported from the UK each year for the last number of years, that figure is going to drop to a few thousand tops, i'd imagine. People buying used imports do so because they cant afford to buy new cars here and that isn't going to change, the general population is not going to suddenly start buying new cars just because they cant get a used car from the UK, they'll buy a used car here (which generates zero revenue for the state coffers) so they're going to have to do something about it. The sensible thing would be to cut VRT on used cars to offset the VAT or zero or drastically reduce the VAT on used cars. The next 12 months will be interesting when they start to see the massive drop in revenue and when the country is on its knees revenue wise due to PUP and loss of revenue from lock downs, an easy revenue source would have been car imports....

gov makes more money on new cars, if we cant get imports, more folks forced to buy new and the 2nd hand market will rise,

cant see it changing,

Casati

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I can see the government having to do some sort of U-turn on imports as revenue from VRT is going to go through the floor. I was thinking of changing this year and would have been importing a car as I wont drive a diesel and you cant get decent petrol cars here so import was my only choice. VRT would have been in the region of €5000 inc nox etc however i'm now simply noyt going to bother changing at all, i'll keep the car I have and drive it into the ground and I imagine there are many other people in a similar frame of mind.

On average there have been roughly 100k cars imported from the UK each year for the last number of years, that figure is going to drop to a few thousand tops, i'd imagine. People buying used imports do so because they cant afford to buy new cars here and that isn't going to change, the general population is not going to suddenly start buying new cars just because they cant get a used car from the UK, they'll buy a used car here (which generates zero revenue for the state coffers) so they're going to have to do something about it. The sensible thing would be to cut VRT on used cars to offset the VAT or zero or drastically reduce the VAT on used cars. The next 12 months will be interesting when they start to see the massive drop in revenue and when the country is on its knees revenue wise due to PUP and loss of revenue from lock downs, an easy revenue source would have been car imports....

Don’t think revenue can / will do anything of this sort. Irish buying in UK have been getting a bargain, but don’t assume they can’t afford to buy a new car fresh from the dealer here where the tax take inc vat and vrt will be massive plus new cars will have lower emissions and better safety

New cars sales here are set to explode once we get out lock down and the outlook looks good, people will be spending all the money saved during lock down on brand new cars

Casati

lomb wrote: »

It's going to be like Cuba here soon for cars, hello Pedro that's a mighty fine 1956 Cadillac! Cars will be like the broom stick, it's had 3 engines and 5 gearboxes , but it's good as new...

It’s going to be the complete opposite- without the option to buy in UK people will just buy new cars here. Those that haven’t the means to buy new will be stuck in bangers but I’d expect we will have increased numbers of brand new cars

bazz26

reubenreuben wrote: »

Reading this now, maybe we should start driving on the right.

Vicxas wrote: »

Maybe it is time we started driving on the right.

Discussed to death already, below is my previous reply to the similar suggestion last month. The costs of changing would outweigh the benefits unless people are happy to incorporate that cost into their general taxes or supply of goods & services just so they can save a few bob every few years on buying a car. We also share a land boarder with another jurisdiction that continues to drive on the left so that again complicates things.

It would make more sense imo to instead reduce taxes on the prices of our cars here as we have some of the cheapest pre tax prices of new cars in Europe. However it's not going to happen anytime soon because the revenue from that goes into the big pot that helps pay for our public services that run the country. Whether that's money well spent is for a different debate and forum.

bazz26 wrote: »

Not the old change to driving on the euro side old chestnut again.

You have to realize how much it would cost to convert all the country's infrastructure for left hand drive. Not to mention all the private businesses that would have to fork out to change their car parks, drive thru and vehicle service ways? Who pays for all of this? It's like spending €100 to save €2, it would take years to actually start benefiting from it. Also what about all the right hand drive cars out there now, do we just dig a big hole and bury them? Have you tried driving a left hand drive car regularly in a right hand drive country regularly or vice versa? Go try and over take a truck on a road that you cannot see oncoming traffic on because your on the other side of the vehicle. Try reaching across the other side of your car to take a ticket to get into a multi-story car park. And lets not forget about the difficulty of driver education, there are people here who have been driving for years who still cannot master driving on the left and you expect them to flip over to the right overnight.

deezell

gally74 wrote: »

gov makes more money on new cars, if we cant get imports, more folks forced to buy new and the 2nd hand market will rise,

cant see it changing,

There were only 70,000 new cars bought in 2020. Thats not even close to the annual demand for used. If the govt think we will all be buying new from now on, think again. Less than a third of us have the budget for new, or else our budget will stretch to a flimsy cheap new runabout, probably yielding half the VRT of a 3 year old used quality brand. Our €16K budget got us a 3 year old 220d C Class sport, a beauty. Same budget new here, maybe a 1l petrol Fiesta, which will be scrap after 5 years of miserable driving. I agree with CJC, we'll drive our current used
Into the ground, which, being a Mercedes, will take another 20 years.

rock22

bazz26 wrote: »

....

It would make more sense imo to instead reduce taxes on the prices of our cars here as we have some of the cheapest pre tax prices of new cars in Europe. ...

The pre tax price is set by the manufacturers to ensure a 'reasonably affordable' retail price. If vrt is reduced then very quickly the pre tax price will not be ' one of the cheapest.... in Europe'

Casati

deezell wrote: »

There were only 70,000 new cars bought in 2020. Thats not even close to the annual demand for used. If the govt think we will all be buying new from now on, think again. Less than a third of us have the budget for new, or else our budget will stretch to a flimsy cheap new runabout, probably yielding half the VRT of a 3 year old used quality brand. Our €16K budget got us a 3 year old 220d C Class sport, a beauty. Same budget new here, maybe a 1l petrol Fiesta, which will be scrap after 5 years of miserable driving. I agree with CJC, we'll drive our current used
Into the ground, which, being a Mercedes, will take another 20 years.

I know a lot of people (myself included) might react to closing off cheap imports from UK with a defiant statement that you'll never buy another car, but in reality you will get bored, you'll need a bigger/ smaller car / the car will let you down and you'll be back in the market.

The average value of a car imported in 2019 according to Fexco was over 21,000. For sure people used to enjoying second-hand Merc's and Audi's at this price range might wince at spending more than double that on a brand new one, but some of those people equally might find the cash or alternatively decide they don't need to pay so much for a badge and buy a new Skoda/ Kia etc. Despite what you think cheaper cars last more than 5 years

Supply of U.K. vat qualifying cars generally less than 3 years old will continue and indeed is likely to greatly increase. As more new cars are sold, it will free up more cars for the used market too.

Second hand cars in general are going to get more expensive and I'd say its certain that some people will hold onto cars longer than they might otherwise like to - but of course these older cars will still generate govt revenue as they are likely to need more repairs and over time are likely to face higher motor tax charges too.

I think that overall for anybody interested in brand new cars that barriers to buying used in UK is going to increase the value of second hand cars here and reduce the cost to change- which again will be a further incentive for those with a few quid to buy brand new cars.

You did very well getting a 3 year old C220 landed for 16k!

galwaytt

As used car prices will go up, I think this will close the gap between those and new ones - so a certain number will switch to buying new. Attractive finance and warranty will increase the appeal of those.

And for another cohort who normally wouldn't buy new anyway, I think they may change from a more regular 2nd car purchase every 3 years and maybe buy new and keep it for 5, or 6 instead. That would probably work out cheaper anyway.

Either way, I think we'll end up more like Norway after a while, where cars will be bought and held on to longer, and cost more too.

I can see a Govt knee-jerk response to falling revenues come from our old friend Motor Tax in the next budget which, like a ratchet, will just stay at a higher level for evermore.

galwaytt

I'm dying to see some examples of people importing in 2021 anyway, to sort out the wheat from the chaff on the whole issue tbh.

Vicxas

galwaytt wrote: »

I'm dying to see some examples of people importing in 2021 anyway, to sort out the wheat from the chaff on the whole issue tbh.

Im going to try and find a decent importer in Ireland in the next few months to try import it for me, see how much itll cost me.

Tr_18

I've a feeling Japanese imports are going to be on the rise again. Looking forward to seeing them become more common on the roads

trellheim

I've a feeling Japanese imports are going to be on the rise again. Looking forward to seeing them become more common on the roads

although off topic slightly who does CoC's for these ?

treatyman

Casati wrote: »

It’s going to be the complete opposite- without the option to buy in UK people will just buy new cars here. Those that haven’t the means to buy new will be stuck in bangers but I’d expect we will have increased numbers of brand new cars

Of course there will be people who will splash out and buy new when a good second car that fits their needs isn't available anymore but I think there are far more people who are just going to hold onto the car they have for longer. There is a lot more people not needing cars nowadays too with working from home or not working at all very common, or families not needing 2 cars anymore.

there is going to be a massive short fall in revenue from vrt from this. They are losing 100,000 (ball part figure imports per year) times 3,000 (rough average paid on vrt). There is no way in hell that shortfall is going to be made up by people buying new.

LillySV

Tr_18 wrote: »

I've a feeling Japanese imports are going to be on the rise again. Looking forward to seeing them become more common on the roads

This is what I’d like to see too. Is there many at this at present or is the cost of cars fully cleared just as bad as our Uk cars will be ?

lawrencesummers

Presumably you can import from the north as before, the question is what level of supply the dealers in the north can get.

treatyman

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Presumably you can import from the north as before, the question is what level of supply the dealers in the north can get.

I'm sure the dealers in the north know this and will up their prices too to match republic prices or slightly lower to entice buyers to travel up.

I've bought many cars in the UK and only 1 in the north and that was for the wife, we didn't really save much in buying that car up north just got a more decent spec. Looking at cars that get my attention up north at the moment, there are similar cars in the republic and priced about the same so no point in it IMO.

Casati

treatyman wrote: »

Of course there will be people who will splash out and buy new when a good second car that fits their needs isn't available anymore but I think there are far more people who are just going to hold onto the car they have for longer. There is a lot more people not needing cars nowadays too with working from home or not working at all very common, or families not needing 2 cars anymore.

there is going to be a massive short fall in revenue from vrt from this. They are losing 100,000 (ball part figure imports per year) times 3,000 (rough average paid on vrt). There is no way in hell that shortfall is going to be made up by people buying new.

Imports from U.K. won't go to zero - remember you can still buy in N.I. and you can still buy vat qualifying cars (I bought a 191 VAT qualifying car in 2019 and I plan to buy a 2021 later this year again all going well).

It likely we will see higher numbers of low co2 diesels, PHEV's and EV's continue to imported. The hassle factor will be enough for some buyers to not bother but it won't drop to zero and dealers will happily do it to have used stock. We might have Jap imports but the CoC seems to be an issue plus I think they are a lot dearer relative to prices in 1990's when we last saw them in numbers

In 2019 we saw 117k new cars registered here and 100k imported. For 2022 I would estimate that new car sales will be way over 150k but used U.K./ N.I. imports maybe 50k.

2021 looks like we will definitely take a hit with VRT revenue but that's fine as we can get the E.U. to print pandemic euros as needed

Lofidelity

Would a commercial vehicle bought by an Irish vat registered business or individual be liable for a vat refund from the UK?

Casati

Lofidelity wrote: »

Would a commercial vehicle bought by an Irish vat registered business or individual be liable for a vat refund from the UK?

Not a vat refund, but it the commercial is advertised as ‘plus vat’ then they can sell it to you at 0% rate vat for export

grayzer75

The big issue at the moment is transit documentation e.g. if you're taking good from the UK to NI via an Irish port it's a mess particularly groupage and the same if you're using the UK landbridge to the continent from an Irish port.

Everything else seems reasonably okay at the but freight levels are running at approx 10% at the moment so we won't see the full impact for a couple of weeks yet.

There have been a few issues with various websites crashing as well - a driver I know arrived into Dub port on the 1st with the correct paperwork etc but could'nt access the website for his declaration. Nobody checked his paperwork so he headed on and tipped the load and went on home. He got a text message at 11pm that night to say his declaration went through and he could leave the port lol.

Dr Dave

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40201356.html?type=amp

According to this piece in the examiner, the "tax body" has said that Import and Vat are payable on an import from the UK

Quote from the piece:-
"If you are an individual or a business and you import vehicles from Britain, you are required to complete a customs declaration; pay or account for customs duty of 10% if applicable, and pay Vat at 21% prior to presenting the vehicle for registration. As is the case at present, VRT is also payable on such vehicles," Revenue added.

reubenreuben

Dr Dave wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40201356.html?type=amp

According to this piece in the examiner, the "tax body" has said that Import and Vat are payable on an import from the UK

Quote from the piece:-
"If you are an individual or a business and you import vehicles from Britain, you are required to complete a customs declaration; pay or account for customs duty of 10% if applicable, and pay Vat at 21% prior to presenting the vehicle for registration. As is the case at present, VRT is also payable on such vehicles," Revenue added.

Does the customs duty apply to buyers from NI as well or is it just a matter of registering it for free there?

Dr Dave

reubenreuben wrote: »

Does the customs duty apply to buyers from NI as well or is it just a matter of registering it for free there?

I honestly am not certain about any of this.
I would think that NI is still part of the UK so it will make no difference.

Quoting from that piece again:-
"According to Revenue, importation of a vehicle from Britain is now treated as an importation from a third country, that is, a non-EU country. That means completing a customs declaration, accounting for customs duty if applicable, and Vat prior to presenting the vehicle for registration."

Does "Britain" not include NI?
Only real way to find out is to import a car and see what monies they look for.

Ogham

Dr Dave wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40201356.html?type=amp

According to this piece in the examiner, the "tax body" has said that Import and Vat are payable on an import from the UK

Quote from the piece:-
"If you are an individual or a business and you import vehicles from Britain, you are required to complete a customs declaration; pay or account for customs duty of 10% if applicable, and pay Vat at 21% prior to presenting the vehicle for registration. As is the case at present, VRT is also payable on such vehicles," Revenue added.

Duty will only be charged if the country of origin was not the UK or EU.
The country of origin rules are complex - and there may be some scope for saying a car is UK made if a certain percentage of parts are UK made.