Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

Casati

Ogham wrote: »

Duty will only be charged if the country of origin was not the UK or EU.
The country of origin rules are complex - and there may be some scope for saying a car is UK made if a certain percentage of parts are UK made.

That article is misleading. There is no additional 10% duty on imports from the UK

Ogham

Casati wrote: »

That article is misleading. There is no additional 10% duty on imports from the UK

There can be duty on goods from the UK - if the goods were not produced in the UK or the EU.
Some goods will be duty free - yes.

Casati

Ogham wrote: »

There can be duty on goods from the UK - if the goods were not produced in the UK or the EU.
Some goods will be duty free - yes.

The article takes about importing vehicles from the UK and is misleading. Duty will not be payable in any circumstances importing a used vehicle registered in the UK.

My guess is that the content was written by somebody in SIMI who is trying to discourage private individuals from importing used cars by making out that the process will be more complex and expensive that it actually will be

Ogham

Casati wrote: »

The article takes about importing vehicles from the UK and is misleading. Duty will not be payable in any circumstances importing a used vehicle registered in the UK.

Why do you think you are correct ?

Does this help - or are Revenue misleading too ?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

Casati

Ogham wrote: »

Why do you think you are correct ?

Does this help - or are Revenue misleading too ?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

Brexit deal was negotiated on the 24th December, a lot of information has not been updated on the revenue site to reflect this.

User1998

Casati wrote: »

Brexit deal was negotiated on the 24th December, a lot of information has not been updated on the revenue site to reflect this.

Both of the articles he linked were published after the deal was negotiated

Casati

User1998 wrote: »

Both of the articles he linked were published after the deal was negotiated

Why are they in conflict with each other then? One says 10% duty and the other says 0% duty (from U.K.)?

declan123

The second article confirms there is effectively no duty for cars with an origin in the UK or the EU. That means also most cars are exempt from duty, for example all European marques and most Japanese cars (as most are build in Europe).


Am I reading it correctly?

Ogham

declan123 wrote: »

The second article confirms there is effectively no duty for cars with an origin in the UK or the EU. That means also most cars are exempt from duty, for example all European marques and most Japanese cars (as most are build in Europe).


Am I reading it correctly?

Yes - but the rules of origin (as far as I gather) are not as simple as where it is put together - it involves where the parts were made too. I don't know the full details on that bit.

Isambard

declan123 wrote: »

The second article confirms there is effectively no duty for cars with an origin in the UK or the EU. That means also most cars are exempt from duty, for example all European marques and most Japanese cars (as most are build in Europe).


Am I reading it correctly?

It says "if applicable" and basically it isn't.

Where cars are built is irrelevant. If they are UK registered there is no 10% excise duty.

cranefly

Looks like its back to donedeal looking for 3 year old cars with over 150 000 miles on the clock. Oh the good old days.

deezell

cranefly wrote: »

Looks like its back to donedeal looking for 3 year old cars with over 150 000 miles on the clock. Oh the good old days.

Use shorthand, for "3 year old cars with over 150,000 miles on the clock", just say "Crocks".

Gatster

So is there no VAT payable if it's from the North still?

irishproduce

Would you have to pay vat twice then?
Once off the UK (mainland) seller at the UK rate and then again when you register it here?

Wildly Boaring

Gatster wrote: »

So is there no VAT payable if it's from the North still?

Exactly
Any car up there pre 31/12/20 can be imported without VAT
Any car bought new up there from now on same.

Then there's no clarity yet on post 1/1/21 "mainland" cars bought in NI and then brought down.
Might be a way to do it. But I reckon revenue will have limits like car must be in NI ownership for 2 years.. or something

Wildly Boaring

irishproduce wrote: »

Would you have to pay vat twice then?
Once off the UK (mainland) seller at the UK rate and then again when you register it here?

No
Just on bringing into the country from mainland UK

irishproduce

So the sale in UK mainland is vat free then?

Wildly Boaring

irishproduce wrote: »

So the sale in UK mainland is vat free then?

Well it had VAT applied when it was brand new.
A portion of it is still in the secondhand price

irishproduce

What I mean is if the retailer in UK sells to you for £10k, he has to add vat on to that. So you pay 12k or whatever.
Then you come home with it.
Vat will now be due here again on it at when you do you get/ customs declaration.
Or am I off in that?

deezell

irishproduce wrote: »

What I mean is if the retailer in UK sells to you for £10k, he has to add vat on to that. So you pay 12k or whatever.
Then you come home with it.
Vat will now be due here again on it at when you do you get/ customs declaration.
Or am I off in that?

Yes, a bir off. VAT in the UK is paid once on private cars when the car is new, same as a fridge or TV, and the same as here. When sold years later, the used price is a fraction of the new, and the VAT is a virtual fraction of that. A £12,000 used UK car has a notional element of £2000 VAT in the price, already collected and paid to the UK revenue when it was new. No futher VAT is added when resold, ( other than on dealer margin), but the residual VAT, one sixth of what you pay, can't be claimed back on sale or export.
The problem now is the Irish revenue want to add Irish VAT, as UK is not in the EU, so it's considered a foreign import which must attract EU VAT. If it were brand new or considered new, the UK VAT would be deducted on export, that is, not collected or paid to the UK revenue, and irish VAT would be applied on import. No such rule for used, car or fridge or TV.
Only in certain cases when the car is a business asset, and with strict rules on who uses it and for what, does the car carry its VAT element throughout its business life. This portion can be claimed back and re-applied by vat registered businesses in the UK, and deducted altogether on export outside. The cars are known as 'VAT qualifying', and are a scarce item to find, but do exist. If you find one in a dealers, it will take a bit of paperwork to get them to sell it to you with the VAT deducted, and probably plenty of grief if you pay it and then try seek a refund from HM revenue. Opinion here pointed to not paying when taking possession, but I'm not sure how that works post Brexit and for a private exporter. A bit like non EU tourists getting their VAT back at the Airpirt I guess, you must prove it's leaving the UK. Expect dealers here to snap up all the juicy VAT qualifying cars, car transporters of them. You'll pay top Irish used price once they land here, no savings.
I'm still waiting to find out if cars bought in the UK pre official brexit date of January 2020 are considered to have been EU VAT paid cars. We should be entitled to import these 2019 reg and below without Irish VAT, and pay just VRT as we have all along. It would give us a bit of breathing space for a few years. Wishful thinking probably, and a diminishing resource with each passing year anyway.

Ogham

Isambard wrote: »

It says "if applicable" and basically it isn't.

Where cars are built is irrelevant. If they are UK registered there is no 10% excise duty.

Wrong.
The country of origin is the factor that determines duty.

Wildly Boaring

Ogham wrote: »

Wrong.
The country of origin is the factor that determines duty.

So revenue will not charge that duty on a VW as it's German. But if you get a Mexican or Brazilian VW it'll be charged.

No charge on Jag as they are UK and there was a no trade deal. No charge on a Sunderland built Nissan. But duty on a Japanese built Nissan??

I'm not sure if that is correct.

Isambard

Ogham wrote: »

Wrong.
The country of origin is the factor that determines duty.

not on a used car. Obviously a new car imported will be taxed according to whether it's of EU origin, but a used car will be taxed according to where it's registered, so 10% from Japan or USA but nil from EU or UK

Casati

deezell wrote: »

Yes, a bir off. VAT in the UK is paid once on private cars when the car is new, same as a fridge or TV, and the same as here. When sold years later, the used price is a fraction of the new, and the VAT is a virtual fraction of that. A £12,000 used UK car has a notional element of £2000 VAT in the price, already collected and paid to the UK revenue when it was new. No futher VAT is added when resold, ( other than on dealer margin), but the residual VAT, one sixth of what you pay, can't be claimed back on sale or export.
The problem now is the Irish revenue want to add Irish VAT, as UK is not in the EU, so it's considered a foreign import which must attract EU VAT. If it were brand new or considered new, the UK VAT would be deducted on export, that is, not collected or paid to the UK revenue, and irish VAT would be applied on import. No such rule for used, car or fridge or TV.
Only in certain cases when the car is a business asset, and with strict rules on who uses it and for what, does the car carry its VAT element throughout its business life. This portion can be claimed back and re-applied by vat registered businesses in the UK, and deducted altogether on export outside. The cars are known as 'VAT qualifying', and are a scarce item to find, but do exist. If you find one in a dealers, it will take a bit of paperwork to get them to sell it to you with the VAT deducted, and probably plenty of grief if you pay it and then try seek a refund from HM revenue. Opinion here pointed to not paying when taking possession, but I'm not sure how that works post Brexit and for a private exporter. A bit like non EU tourists getting their VAT back at the Airpirt I guess, you must prove it's leaving the UK. Expect dealers here to snap up all the juicy VAT qualifying cars, car transporters of them. You'll pay top Irish used price once they land here, no savings.
I'm still waiting to find out if cars bought in the UK pre official brexit date of January 2020 are considered to have been EU VAT paid cars. We should be entitled to import these 2019 reg and below without Irish VAT, and pay just VRT as we have all along. It would give us a bit of breathing space for a few years. Wishful thinking probably, and a diminishing resource with each passing year anyway.

Revenue are charging vat on all imports regardless if vat was paid when UK was in the EU when the car was registered

Cee-Jay-Cee

Casati wrote: »

Revenue are charging vat on all imports regardless if vat was paid when UK was in the EU when the car was registered

Surely that could be challenged. EU VAT has already been paid on the car when it was new so charging VAT again means VAT has been paid twice on the same vehicle in the EU....and then add VRT which has been deemed illegal by the EU and you have 3 effective VAT charges on the one car in its lifetime. It might not succeed in the courts here but surely would have a very good chance of succeeding in European courts?

Casati wrote: »

Don’t think revenue can / will do anything of this sort. Irish buying in UK have been getting a bargain, but don’t assume they can’t afford to buy a new car fresh from the dealer here where the tax take inc vat and vrt will be massive plus new cars will have lower emissions and better safety

New cars sales here are set to explode once we get out lock down and the outlook looks good, people will be spending all the money saved during lock down on brand new cars

I seriously don't think that will happen here. People are not suddenly going to go from their A4/A6/520d sized used imports to new Astra/Focus sized cars just because theyre the same price as what they would have paid for an import...its simply not going to happen, at least not in the next 2 or 3 years. Revenue is going to go through the floor due to the loss in VRT. I know numerous people who bought imports in the last couple of years who plan to just hold on to them for the foreseeable.

My brother in law is the manager in one of the busiest dealerships here in Donegal and sales for January 2021 are down 10/15% on last year and he doesn't expect them to pick up.

There will be no new car sales explosion.

Ogham

Isambard wrote: »

not on a used car. Obviously a new car imported will be taxed according to whether it's of EU origin, but a used car will be taxed according to where it's registered, so 10% from Japan or USA but nil from EU or UK

Why do you think a used car is treated treated differently to a new car?

From Revenue ( https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

"If you are importing a new or second hand car from outside the EU, VAT (and customs duty) is payable. Customs duty is paid when the vehicle first enters the EU, at the point of entry."

Also EU Commission - https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/car-taxation/buying-selling-cars_en

"If you are already living in an EU country, and you wish to import a car you bought outside the EU, it is treated just like any other imported goods. You will have to pay customs duty and import VAT, unless any reliefs apply."

----

I can see there will be some issues on existing second hand cars that were imported in to the UK when it was still in the EU pre 2021 . They have had EU duty paid already .Not sure how they will deal with them.
But my understanding is that a new car imported into the UK from 2021 onwards will be liable to import duty when it is sold second hand or new to Ireland or any other Eu country.

ELM327

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Surely that could be challenged. EU VAT has already been paid on the car when it was new so charging VAT again means VAT has been paid twice on the same vehicle in the EU....and then add VRT which has been deemed illegal by the EU and you have 3 effective VAT charges on the one car in its lifetime. It might not succeed in the courts here but surely would have a very good chance of succeeding in European courts?

You;ve made a good coherent argument, but remove the "vrt is illegal" nonsense, as it's not.

myshirt

So, getting down to brass tacks here, do we have to pay VAT on a second hand import?

Will totally kill the deal won't it.

The VRT was bad enough.

Isambard

Ogham wrote: »

Why do you think a used car is treated treated differently to a new car?

From Revenue ( https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

"If you are importing a new or second hand car from outside the EU, VAT (and customs duty) is payable. Customs duty is paid when the vehicle first enters the EU, at the point of entry."

Also EU Commission - https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/car-taxation/buying-selling-cars_en

"If you are already living in an EU country, and you wish to import a car you bought outside the EU, it is treated just like any other imported goods. You will have to pay customs duty and import VAT, unless any reliefs apply."

----

I can see there will be some issues on existing second hand cars that were imported in to the UK when it was still in the EU pre 2021 . They have had EU duty paid already .Not sure how they will deal with them.
But my understanding is that a new car imported into the UK from 2021 onwards will be liable to import duty when it is sold second hand or new to Ireland or any other Eu country.

it was stated that a used car was taxed according to where it was built whereas once a car is registered in the UK it becomes a British car in the eyes of Revenue and is taxed as such.

Ogham

Isambard wrote: »

it was stated that a used car was taxed according to where it was built whereas once a car is registered in the UK it becomes a British car in the eyes of Revenue and is taxed as such.

??? Where does it say that ???