Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

Brewster

mgn wrote: »

I don't think you were seen things, I'm 99% sure it was 0% before today.

You could be right. I could have sworn it. Must be a mistake? I said to myself nearly new BMW, Audi, Peugeot, would all be fine. I wasn’t sure what the situation would be with the Japanese or Korean cars coming in from the U.K. I speculated to myself that they would be hit with the 10% charge. I was shocked when I read the revenue advice this evening re EU cars.

Ogham

Brewster wrote: »

You could be right. I could have sworn it. Must be a mistake? I said to myself nearly new BMW, Audi, Peugeot, would all be fine. I wasn’t sure what the situation would be with the Japanese or Korean cars coming in from the U.K. I speculated to myself that they would be hit with the 10% charge. I was shocked when I read the revenue advice this e

vening re EU

cars.

That revenue page has changed again . Shows 0 again !

damemcd

Some lad in revenue reading boards and acting the boll*x....

deezell

damemcd wrote: »

Some lad in revenue reading boards and acting the boll*x....

Sure they're all working from home, making it up as they go along. Maybe we should write the post Brexit import rules here, sort it out to restore some sense, and perhaps they'll just read it and adopt it! They let the Banks govern themselves after all....😁

myshirt

I think what they are saying is that if someone tries to pull a fast one by routing a car through the UK, then the customs charges will still apply.

So for example, if you import from Japan via the UK, i.e get someone in the UK to buy it, and then you buy it off then; and try to claim "I bought from the UK, I don't owe any customs" then the Revenue will challenge you

For this to work practically, they have to apply it to all cars routed through the UK, otherwise it is an administrative nightmare.

The key question to ask will be where the first registration of the car was. If it was in the UK, you're grand, but if it was imported to the UK and then imported into Ireland, you're not grand.

You can still buy a car or moterbike directly from another EU member customs and vat free.

rodge123

myshirt wrote: »

I think what they are saying is that if someone tries to pull a fast one by routing a car through the UK, then the customs charges will still apply.

So for example, if you import from Japan via the UK, i.e get someone in the UK to buy it, and then you buy it off then; and try to claim "I bought from the UK, I don't owe any customs" then the Revenue will challenge you

For this to work practically, they have to apply it to all cars routed through the UK, otherwise it is an administrative nightmare.

The key question to ask will be where the first registration of the car was. If it was in the UK, you're grand, but if it was imported to the UK and then imported into Ireland, you're not grand.

You can still buy a car or moterbike directly from another EU member customs and vat free.

That makes sense.
I think the only outstanding thing to clear is is whether Irish vat will be payable when importing used cars from NI, will the car have had to been registered in NI for X months/years before can be imported here without vat.

If no requirement for car to have been in NI for set time before importing to here avoiding vat, then there will a pile of dealers north and south using this I’d say.

rodge123

rodge123 wrote: »

That makes sense.
I think the only outstanding thing to clear is is whether Irish vat will be payable when importing used cars from NI, will the car have had to been registered in NI for X months/years before can be imported here without vat.

If no requirement for car to have been in NI for set time before importing to here avoiding vat, then there will a pile of dealers north and south using this I’d say.

Actually, be good to know if Irish vat applicable to car imported from mainland uk that have previously paid full EU vat when UK was in EU.

I priced a Jaguar last night on the vrt calculator. It's a 2018. 22,000 euro when converted from sterling. Its English reg though.

VRT was 10K

Imagine then adding VAT of approx 6500.

Total = Approx 38500.

The VRT thing is total madness. 10 fu*king thousand. And that's not including NOX.

Vicxas

Deleted User wrote: »

I priced a Jaguar last night on the vrt calculator. It's a 2018. 22,000 euro when converted from sterling. Its English reg though.

VRT was 10K

Imagine then adding VAT of approx 6500.

Total = Approx 38500.

The VRT thing is total madness. 10 fu*king thousand. And that's not including NOX.

Yep, welcome to the madness.

Surely the goverment will have to act on this.

Ogham

deezell wrote: »

Sure they're all working from home, making it up as they go along. Maybe we should write the post Brexit import rules here, sort it out to restore some sense, and perhaps they'll just read it and adopt it! They let the Banks govern themselves after all....😁

That page has changed again - EU showing as 10% for me again.
It was definitely showing zero last night!

wrcarter

Vicxas wrote: »

Yep, welcome to the madness.

Surely the goverment will have to act on this.

Why do the have to? Most “normal” people go to a dealer and buy a car. Some will buy privately from DoneDeal etc. When you go to the uk your €15k+ (or whatever you spend) is leaving the Irish economy. Yes, they get a bit of VRT back but the majority of the money has left the country. Overall it’s probably better for the economy if it stopped.

I usually buy cars in Ireland but that’s due to budget and vrt rates. Most of my cars have been older and it doesn’t justify going to the uk. However nearly all my cars were ex English cars. If it wasn’t for uk imports, it would be nearly impossible to get something like my daily, a high spec 330d.

I’m all for keeping this link open but it’s a great excuse to stop “dirty diesels” coming into the country and getting us to buy new electric or hybrid cars.

deezell

I suspect the hand of SIMI here. After all, OMSP was their creation to retain the status quo, they were so freaked over the potential drop in used car values. Now their hankering for the old days, with no escaoe route for motorists from their exclusive supply chain. Destroying the used import by a combination of new VAT, huge increase in VRT, and Nox for good measure, has handed a total monolopy to indigenous new car distributors. Despite being Eu citizens, we are denied access to a source of reasonably priced used vehicles, due to these taxes and the use of right hand drive here. In fact, it would be extremely easy to get around EU vat and duty requirements on used vehicles from outside the Eu simply by making the case that the EU is a left hand entity, and that ourselves and Malta, as islands, should be allowed a derogation on duty and vat on additional on a specific range of used vehicles, say 2 years and older.

Cienciano

Vicxas wrote: »

Yep, welcome to the madness.

Surely the goverment will have to act on this.

They're delighted, they'll consider it a "loophole" closed. They think you'll buy a brand new car in Ireland every 5 years now

wrcarter

deezell wrote: »

I suspect the hand of SIMI here. After all, OMSP was their creation to retain the status quo, they were so freaked over the potential drop in used car values. Now their hankering for the old days, with no escaoe route for motorists from their exclusive supply chain. Destroying the used import by a combination of new VAT, huge increase in VRT, and Nox for good measure, has handed a total monolopy to indigenous new car distributors. Despite being Eu citizens, we are denied access to a source of reasonably priced used vehicles, due to these taxes and the use of right hand drive here. In fact, it would be extremely easy to get around EU vat and duty requirements on used vehicles from outside the Eu simply by making the case that the EU is a left hand entity, and that ourselves and Malta, as islands, should be allowed a derogation on duty and vat on additional on a specific range of used vehicles, say 2 years and older.

I’ve always thought that importing from Malta would be a good idea. But as I said before, it’s older cars I’m more interested in and there are some nice cars out there. Seems to be less rust too even though salt water is never far away.

trellheim

For example If want to import a Lexus ( made in Japan and shipped to the UK as a normal CT200h for sale in the regular line of things ) , the only thing you will have is a VIN starting with J (made in Japan) and a V5c showing first reg in London or whatever


If you asked a jap importer to bring over the same thing as a used car from Tokyo the only difference is the V5c

therefore the only difference is the first reg so does it count as a uk import or a jap import

User1998

Malta is getting mentioned a lot lately. They have a population of 500,000 and their car prices are much higher than the UK so that will never work. They got all their cars from the UK as well

https://www.maltapark.com/item/details/7951632

rodge123

Hopefully Scotland hurry up and leave the UK and rejoin the EU!
Population over about 5.5m would give us a few more used cars options at least.

Ogham

trellheim wrote: »

For example If want to import a Lexus ( made in Japan and shipped to the UK as a normal CT200h for sale in the regular line of things ) , the only thing you will have is a VIN starting with J (made in Japan) and a V5c showing first reg in London or whatever


If you asked a jap importer to bring over the same thing as a used car from Tokyo the only difference is the V5c

therefore the only difference is the first reg so does it count as a uk import or a jap import

From the info on the Revenue page (before it changes again!) - as far as I understand it a used car shipped direct from Japan to Ireland will obviously be a Japanese import and 7.5% duty will apply.
(That 7.5% is reducing to zero over the next 5 years).

On a used Japanese car that goes into the UK and was used there - it looks like if that is then imported to Ireland it will be subject to the maximum duty of 10% . It is not classed as a UK or a Japanese import to Ireland.

I think that's right ?

User1998

Cars from Japan have 10% duty but yes there is some sort of Japan trade deal that is reducing this

Pre Brexit you could import a car to UK, pay 20% UK VAT at the port, and then transport the car to Ireland and I think you would still have to pay the 10% customs duty but not the 23% Irish VAT. I’m not sure about now tho

Casati

Casati wrote: »

That 10% duty payable for importing EU cars inc French and German cannot be correct??

So I got this wrong - revenue are saying that 10% duty will apply from any imports from the U.K. that do not have the U.K. as origin - i.e. so aside from whatever Landrovers, Jags, Nissans etc are still made in the U.K., you are liable to Duty upon importation of 10%.

Im not 100% sure but think duty is calculated on the price of the car plus transportation, but it could be calculated on the price of car plus transportation plus vat. Either way that's a massive hurdle and will see almost everything up by 10% even vat qualifying cars

Atlantic Dawn

Casati wrote: »

So I got this wrong - revenue are saying that 10% duty will apply from any imports from the U.K. that do not have the U.K. as origin - i.e. so aside from whatever Landrovers, Jags, Nissans etc are still made in the U.K., you are liable to Duty upon importation of 10%.

Im not 100% sure but think duty is calculated on the price of the car plus transportation, but it could be calculated on the price of car plus transportation plus vat. Either way that's a massive hurdle and will see almost everything up by 10% even vat qualifying cars

I can understand this 10% duty for cars which were originally registered in UK after Brexit but on pre Jan 1st 2021 registered cars this doesn't seem right at all as the cars were sold in to an EU territory paying all liable import duties and tariffs.

Are all EU countries applying this logic to cars imported from UK? I suppose it's only relevant to ourselves Malta and Cyprus.

Casati

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I can understand this 10% duty for cars which were originally registered in UK after Brexit but on pre Jan 1st 2021 registered cars this doesn't seem right at all as the cars were sold in to an EU territory paying all liable import duties and tariffs.

Are all EU countries applying this logic to cars imported from UK? I suppose it's only relevant to ourselves Malta and Cyprus.

I personally cannot understand it myself! It seems very strange that EU made products would be liable to duty in Ireland under any circumstances but that is what I was told.

Isambard

i beleive they are saying (not very clearly) that if you have an EU registered car in the UK and wish to export it to Ireland (or EU elsewhere) it will attract fresh import duties as it is not coming directly from an EU country. Must affect quite a small number of cars. I imagine it's to close a possible loophole.

Casati

Isambard wrote: »

i beleive they are saying (not very clearly) that if you have an EU registered car in the UK and wish to export it to Ireland (or EU elsewhere) it will attract fresh import duties as it is not coming directly from an EU country. Must affect quite a small number of cars. I imagine it's to close a possible loophole.

That’s what happening but can’t understand why the EU signed up to this, impacts not just cars but loads of other goods - anything made in EU but then resold via UK will be subject to duty by the looks of it

Isambard

Casati wrote: »

That’s what happening but can’t understand why the EU signed up to this, impacts not just cars but loads of other goods - anything made in EU but then resold via UK will be subject to duty by the looks of it

well they would then be UK exports to the EU so I can understand it. It won't affect goods transiting through the UK from an EU country to a EU final user, only good re-exported

Thomasirl123

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.am-online.com/amp/news/latest-news/2021/01/08/ni-s-post-brexit-20-vat-on-used-cars-issue-not-going-away

There's a little hope...

myshirt

Is there VAT on the VRT?

i.e Tax on a Tax

Wildly Boaring

myshirt wrote: »

Is there VAT on the VRT?

i.e Tax on a Tax

No vat first

deezell

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

No vat first

VRT is a complex tax, in real terms, its actual percentage is not of the pre tax price, but of the final price.
Example. A medium sized tax free car costs 20k. Say if vat is 20% for round figures, thats 24000 inclusive.Say Its VRT rate is determined at 25% and nox at say 500. This 25% is not applied to the pre VRT price, but is 25% of the omsp, or the general selling price. What that actually means is the remaining 75% must be the car cost plus VAT, meaning the VRT is actually at least one third of the pre VRT price, 33.3%, so our car finally costs 32000 plus 500 Nox. The total tax take is 12500, on a original cost of 20k. In real terms, that's equivalent to 62.5% tax applied to the base price.if VAT goes back to 23%, total take is actually over 66%. Its the optics of reverse tax calculation, OMSP etc which gives the impression of 45% in this example, when its actually much larger. It also allows the revenue to fix the amount take in VRT, regardless of if you get a discount for cash say, the VRT take on the car remains the same. It's excise disguised as a registration fee, same as the excise on a pint, but it allows for reduction by reference to the used OMSP. SIMI and Revenue dreamed this one up, and market OMSPs for new cars snd used are a closely guarded process hatched between them. To put it bluntly, our revenue engages in price fixing, as your OMSP will not vary no matter how little you pay for an import, you're taxed on dealer prices. For a brief decade we beat the system, when the glut of cheap quality used UK cars and the rise if Euro v Sterling defeated even this labyrinthine tax. (Do you realise the humble Punt is effectively worth £1.10? Unthinkable before the Euro) Alas, they have us where they want us. Screwed again, just like the 80's.

colm_mcm

I don’t disagree with your post in general, but just to pull you up in a few points

deezell wrote: »

SIMI and Revenue dreamed this one up, and market OMSPs for new cars snd used are a closely guarded process hatched between them.

The OMSP calculations process is publicly available, you’re painting this as some sort of mysterious illogical formula. And while SIMI were unlikely to have been excluded at every point, given that they represent the industry - is there anything to suggest that the SIMI invented the OMSP/depreciation system?

deezell wrote: »

To put it bluntly, our revenue engages in price fixing, as your OMSP will not vary no matter how little you pay for an import, you're taxed on dealer prices.

That’s 100% not how price fixing works.