Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

ironictoaster

pale rider wrote: »

If it is registered in NI then its registered period, far as I know there is no stipulation on how long it must be registered in NI.

If imported from the UK to Ni then you need the NI dealer give you a customs declaration, if on GB plates when presented to vrt it then you may be in bother but we trust other users will update us on their experiences..

Believe me when I say there is no value in importing a recent year car from NI, the vrt payable has put an end to this particular cross border trading, at least at current exchange rates..

I guess we are stuck with paddy spec cars so

CarPark2

Isambard wrote: »

Provided that the necessary paperwork is in place. It will have had to be declared to NI Customs on "export" from GB properly (as they say) and then declared again to Revenue on crossing the border.

It's a lot of faffing around and the NI dealer is not going to let it go cheap, so I can't see there's a benefit to using this system. A RoI car would be much the same price

It seems that the big unknown is on cars that were first registered in GB and are then moved to NI, and subsequently bought by an RoI resident and registered in RoI.

The northern ireland protocol is here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/revised_withdrawal_agreement_including_protocol_on_ireland_and_nothern_ireland.pdf

The main premise of this is that goods that move from GB to NI do not attract customs duties if they are not at risk of moving into the EU. If there is a risk that the good will move into the EU, customs duties must be paid on arrival in NI (with subsequent possibility for refund if found not to go to EU).

Whatever rules they put in place for this, it will have to follow the principal outlined in the protocol. So either, the NI car importer will have to pay customs duties when the car comes to NI (which can then be refunded if they are shown to sell it to a person from NI) or Irish revenue will charge it when you try to register the car in RoI. I don't see any scenario where they make a certain charge if you import direct from GB, but waive that charge if you make the same transaction through a middle-man in NI.

Where it gets more grey is if a person in NI imports a car from GB for their own personal use (should not attract customs duties) and then sells it on to a person from RoI. For instance, if the resale to an individual in RoI happens six years later, presumably it would be counted as a regular sale for an NI registered car (i.e., no customs duties). If the resale happened one day later, presumably it would be considered as a set-up and normal customs duties would apply. But what about the in-between timespans?

As a comparison, i think that up to recently, if you lived in the UK and bought a car there and had it on the road for six months or more, and then moved back to Ireland, you could register it here without paying VRT. So would six months also become the timespan that applies to the scenario for car imported from GB to NI and resold to IE?

CarPark2

deezell wrote: »

Vehicles as desribed above, and VAT only due on new vehicles (for VAT purposes), which is less than 6 months old, less than 6000km, same as before. The phrase '

How does this work in practice?
Scenario:
Person in NI buys a new car, total price of which includes UK VAT. After 5 months, that person sells the car the car to me in RoI. Can the original buyer claim back the VAT from HMRC (in which case they may be willing to sell at a discount), or do i do that (in which case i can use the refund to pay the Irish VAT)? In either case, how much of the VAT is returned - all of the original amount or just the amount that relates to the second-hand purchase price?

deezell

CarPark2 wrote: »

How does this work in practice?
Scenario:
Person in NI buys a new car, total price of which includes UK VAT. After 5 months, that person sells the car the car to me in RoI. Can the original buyer claim back the VAT from HMRC (in which case they may be willing to sell at a discount), or do i do that (in which case i can use the refund to pay the Irish VAT)? In either case, how much of the VAT is returned - all of the original amount or just the amount that relates to the second-hand purchase price?

No, I made the point that any used car that was 'new for VAT purposes' would most likely be VAT qualifying, but nor necessarily. Private owners, not vat qualifying, selling a less than 6 month/6000km car? Who would do that? Footballers maybe. On the other hand, its perfectly possible in the business world, a fleet bought for a major sport event, a G6 summit, a major exhibition and so on. A new car model launch, lots of reasons that the corporate world will buy new for a short time, and such used cars will attract VAT here, but are most likely to have been supplied as VAT qualfying. In this case one nearly cancels the other.

CarPark2

deezell wrote: »

No, I made the point that any used car that was 'new for VAT purposes' would most likely be VAT qualifying, but nor necessarily. Private owners, not vat qualifying, selling a less than 6 month/6000km car? Who would do that? Footballers maybe. On the other hand, its perfectly possible in the business world, a fleet bought for a major sport event, a G6 summit, a major exhibition and so on. A new car model launch, lots of reasons that the corporate world will buy new for a short time, and such used cars will attract VAT here, but are most likely to have been supplied as VAT qualfying. In this case one nearly cancels the other.

OK. I am not disagreeing with you or trying to show the flaw in your argument, just trying to understand.
So if i buy a "VAT qualifying" car in NI, do i claim the VAT back from HMRC (which i can balance against the VAT i pay in IE) or does the original owner claim it back (in which case presumably they can afford to sell it to me a bit cheaper)? Also, what portion of the original VAT can be claimed back?

CarPark2

deezell wrote: »

No, I made the point that any used car that was 'new for VAT purposes' would most likely be VAT qualifying, but nor necessarily. Private owners, not vat qualifying, selling a less than 6 month/6000km car? Who would do that? Footballers maybe. On the other hand, its perfectly possible in the business world, a fleet bought for a major sport event, a G6 summit, a major exhibition and so on. A new car model launch, lots of reasons that the corporate world will buy new for a short time, and such used cars will attract VAT here, but are most likely to have been supplied as VAT qualfying. In this case one nearly cancels the other.

Incidentally, i put in mileage less than 5,000 miles in autotrader (for whole of UK) and there are 103,000 cars available in that category. If you put in less than 500 miles, there are €63,000 cars. Somewhere in between lies the number of cars with less than 6,000 Km.
If i narrow the search to 200 miles from Belfast (so all of NI) those numbers go to 36,000 and 23,000 respectively. So still a lot of cars in that category. I haven't gone through them, but at those kind of numbers, at least some of them must be private owners?

cranefly

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

That didn't actually happen. Those cars were sold and while the original owner was of the belief that they had availed of the scrappage scheme, in reality they didn't and it was a simple trade in situation (which most likely left the dealer with a bigger profit than if the car had been traded in for its book value). Dealers are not that stupid that they would scrap a relatively new car, only old cars that were not worth selling were scrapped.

So we were lied to, very few people driving cars as old as up to 15 years, very doubtful they would be buying brand new cars to avail of this scheme. So back then there must have been a glut of good fairly new used cars for sale, i did not notice that at the time.

Brewster

Folks, registered a U.K. March 2020 hybrid last week. VRT was spot on. I went to tax it online and they are basing road tax on NEDC emissions, even though VRT would have been based on new WLTP bands. So my question is does this seem correct? Has anybody seen definitive clarification one way or another? Tax is 170 on NEDC instead of 150 under WLTP. Does new WLTP based road tax only apply on cars first registered from January 2021?? Appreciate this is a first world problem etc!

CarPark2

CarPark2 wrote: »

It seems that the big unknown is on cars that were first registered in GB and are then moved to NI, and subsequently bought by an RoI resident and registered in RoI.

The northern ireland protocol is here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/revised_withdrawal_agreement_including_protocol_on_ireland_and_nothern_ireland.pdf

The main premise of this is that goods that move from GB to NI do not attract customs duties if they are not at risk of moving into the EU. If there is a risk that the good will move into the EU, customs duties must be paid on arrival in NI (with subsequent possibility for refund if found not to go to EU).

Whatever rules they put in place for this, it will have to follow the principal outlined in the protocol. So either, the NI car importer will have to pay customs duties when the car comes to NI (which can then be refunded if they are shown to sell it to a person from NI) or Irish revenue will charge it when you try to register the car in RoI. I don't see any scenario where they make a certain charge if you import direct from GB, but waive that charge if you make the same transaction through a middle-man in NI.

Where it gets more grey is if a person in NI imports a car from GB for their own personal use (should not attract customs duties) and then sells it on to a person from RoI. For instance, if the resale to an individual in RoI happens six years later, presumably it would be counted as a regular sale for an NI registered car (i.e., no customs duties). If the resale happened one day later, presumably it would be considered as a set-up and normal customs duties would apply. But what about the in-between timespans?

As a comparison, i think that up to recently, if you lived in the UK and bought a car there and had it on the road for six months or more, and then moved back to Ireland, you could register it here without paying VRT. So would six months also become the timespan that applies to the scenario for car imported from GB to NI and resold to IE?

There will likely have been Tax Accountants working in Revenue going over these changes and have the answers already. But it is not being communicated to Joe Public.

There is a car sitting in a dealers in Northern Ireland that i am very interested in. But i don't want to buy and turn up for the VRT inspection and be told. VRT, VAT and Import is owed.

Its a UK Reg Car that has been bought at auction by the dealer. They had it in Northern Ireland since end of November 2020.

mgn

Deleted User wrote: »

There will likely have been Tax Accountants working in Revenue going over these changes and have the answers already. But it is not being communicated to Joe Public.

There is a car sitting in a dealers in Northern Ireland that i am very interested in. But i don't want to buy and turn up for the VRT inspection and be told. VRT, VAT and Import is owed.

Its a UK Reg Car that has been bought at auction by the dealer. They had it in Northern Ireland since end of November 2020.

Well my understanding is any car imported into NI before the 1st of January is exempt from any new charges, just VRT+ NOX charges the same as last year.

Phil.x

I'd say the Irish government are delighted with Brexit, forcing Irish people to buy new and EV at that.

mgn

mgn wrote: »

Well my understanding is any car imported into NI before the 1st of January is exempt from any new charges, just VRT+ NOX charges the same as last year.

I've heard that too, but its not clear if the car would need to have got NI plates fitted to be properly imported to NI. At the minute its a massive risk as getting it wrong could cost an additional 6K on top of the VRT.

mgn

Deleted User wrote: »

I've heard that too, but its not clear if the car would need to have got NI plates fitted to be properly imported to NI. At the minute its a massive risk as getting it wrong could cost an additional 6K on top of the VRT.

You could ask the dealer to VRT it for you, maybe worth a try.

dodzy

Lads, friend keen to purchase motorcycle from Uk. Apparently the make/model he believes is at a good price there. So.... say a 1 - 2 yr old bike, with approx 6k Miles.... what’s he looking at ? VRT plus import duty (a percentage of cost?) and no VAT?

Versus hunting for same make and model up north? Just not sure if different rules apply to car purchasing.

Thanks

road_high

Has anyone gone through the process since jan 01st?
Either from GB or NI and how was it?
Granted I can’t see anyone going the GB route if the full VAT, excise and usual VRT Nox are piled on. It would be sheer insanity

mgn

Phil.x wrote: »

I'd say the Irish government are delighted with Brexit, forcing Irish people to buy new and EV at that.

That fool Eamon Ryan may think its a good idea, but watch and see what will happen.
People that were importing cars themselves from the UK over the last few years changed their cars every few years to newer and cleaner diesel cars, what will the do now, the will just keep what the have and drive it into the ground.

Any fool that thinks that we will have a million EV's on road by 2030, join the Green Party with the rest of the clowns.

deezell

Brewster wrote: »

Folks, registered a U.K. March 2020 hybrid last week. VRT was spot on. I went to tax it online and they are basing road tax on NEDC emissions, even though VRT would have been based on new WLTP bands. So my question is does this seem correct? Has anybody seen definitive clarification one way or another? Tax is 170 on NEDC instead of 150 under WLTP. Does new WLTP based road tax only apply on cars first registered from January 2021?? Appreciate this is a first world problem etc!

Was your vrt calculated from an actual WLTP figure on the V5, or a conversation of an NEDC on the V5. If the latter, they will use NEDC and old co2 table for road tax. €170 is 2-80 mg, but if your emissions are say 70+, converted to WLTP, this is 70x1.1405 + 12.858, equals 92.7, which is also €170 on the new WLTP road tax scale.

road_high

Brewster wrote: »

Folks, registered a U.K. March 2020 hybrid last week. VRT was spot on. I went to tax it online and they are basing road tax on NEDC emissions, even though VRT would have been based on new WLTP bands. So my question is does this seem correct? Has anybody seen definitive clarification one way or another? Tax is 170 on NEDC instead of 150 under WLTP. Does new WLTP based road tax only apply on cars first registered from January 2021?? Appreciate this is a first world problem etc!

Was the full VAT and excise liable on this car? GB or NI import?

macplaxton

Brewster wrote: »

Does new WLTP based road tax only apply on cars first registered from January 2021?

Yes.

All VRT is done on WLTP (actual or calculated)

Motor tax is done on age of vehicle so either 30+,<2008, 2008-2020 or 2021>

CarPark2

Deleted User wrote: »

There will likely have been Tax Accountants working in Revenue going over these changes and have the answers already. But it is not being communicated to Joe Public.

There is a car sitting in a dealers in Northern Ireland that i am very interested in. But i don't want to buy and turn up for the VRT inspection and be told. VRT, VAT and Import is owed.

Its a UK Reg Car that has been bought at auction by the dealer. They had it in Northern Ireland since end of November 2020.

Has it been registered in NI? If the dealer registered it in NI before end of December, it would be fine. But I guess they didn't, if it has GB plates.

In that case, it would fall under this

Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

Proof that vehicles were properly imported into Northern Ireland will be required for vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently, after 1 January 2021, either:
- registered to a private individual or a business in Northern Ireland
or
- sold by a motor dealer with an address in Northern Ireland.

Proof will be in the form of:
- a copy of the customs declaration showing the importation of the vehicle into Northern Ireland
or
- a T2L document issued by HMRC.
The vehicle must be identifiable from the supporting documentation.

So can the dealer provide you with either of the two items of proof listed above?

Brewster

macplaxton wrote: »

Yes.

All VRT is done on WLTP (actual or calculated)

Motor tax is done on age of vehicle so either 30+,<2008, 2008-2020 or 2021>

Ok, so it’s correct then. My car registered first in March 2020 in U.K., so even though I had WLTP emissions on certificate of conformity, I am taxed on NEDC emissions!?

Brewster

road_high wrote: »

Was the full VAT and excise liable on this car? GB or NI import?

I was cute enough, car arrived on 12th December to avoid any issues!

Brewster

deezell wrote: »

Was your vrt calculated from an actual WLTP figure on the V5, or a conversation of an NEDC on the V5. If the latter, they will use NEDC and old co2 table for road tax. €170 is 2-80 mg, but if your emissions are say 70+, converted to WLTP, this is 70x1.1405 + 12.858, equals 92.7, which is also €170 on the new WLTP road tax scale.

The import receipt showed NEDC figure. This figure was 55 on V5 while the WLTP was 74 on certificate of conformity. So I was in 9% band and this was correct. I was hoping I’d be taxed on WLTP which would have been 150 euro, but seems I should be in 170 euro Old NEDC category. I hadn’t seen this written down anywhere and I assumed it was the former.

So if my car had of been April 2020 it would have had WLTP on V5. What would have happened then? Still NEDC for road tax??

deezell

Brewster wrote: »

The import receipt showed NEDC figure. This figure was 55 on V5 while the WLTP was 74 on certificate of conformity. So I was in 9% band and this was correct. I was hoping I’d be taxed on WLTP which would have been 150 euro, but seems I should be in 170 euro Old NEDC category. I hadn’t seen this written down anywhere and I assumed it was the former.

So if my car had of been April 2020 it would have had WLTP on V5. What would have happened then? Still NEDC for road tax??

More than likely not, you registered in 2021. If the v5 was WLTP, they would use new scales, I think, unless its confined to new car registrations. They dont reverse WLTP to NEDC. You're losing out by €20 per annum, so unfair!

Brewster

deezell wrote: »

More than likely not, you registered in 2021. If the v5 was WLTP, they would use new scales, I think, unless its confined to new car registrations. They dont reverse WLTP to NEDC. You're losing out by €20 per annum, so unfair!

Yeah I think it is a little unfair. But as somebody else pointed out, you can’t mix the two systems. If all cars registered first registered before 31 Dec 2020 stay on NEDC, then fine. I would be annoyed if an April 2020 U.K. car went on WLTP road tax simply because it was on the V5! The U.K. authorities changing from an NEDC measurement to WLTP on V5 in April is nothing to do with Irish authorities. I sent an email to Dep. Transport on it, awaiting their reply.

I just never saw it written down anywhere. I just assumed all cars being registered in 2021 would have their roadl tax based on WLTP.

deezell

All NEW cars.

reubenreuben

mgn wrote: »

That fool Eamon Ryan may think its a good idea, but watch and see what will happen.
People that were importing cars themselves from the UK over the last few years changed their cars every few years to newer and cleaner diesel cars, what will the do now, the will just keep what the have and drive it into the ground.

Any fool that thinks that we will have a million EV's on road by 2030, join the Green Party with the rest of the clowns.

I did a VRT check today on a car I imported 2 years ago. It was an extra 4850 euros for the NOx.
The car was only worth 1700.

Phil.x

reubenreuben wrote: »

I did a VRT check today on a car I imported 2 years ago. It was an extra 4850 euros for the NOx.
The car was only worth 1700.

Eamon Ryan doesn't care, he wants no more polluting English imports, only new and expensive EV's.

Save the environment and lots of vat,vrt, etc etc. Its a win win for him.

reubenreuben

Phil.x wrote: »

Eamon Ryan doesn't care, he wants no more polluting English imports, only new and expensive EV's.

Save the environment and lots of vat,vrt, etc etc. Its a win win for him.

Pity they are not building more charging points!!

ConfusedCircles

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has any advice for me. I bought a car in the north before Christmas and luckily enough got inspected for VRT just before Christmas as well. They told me they didn’t have a price for me on the day but that they’d be in touch. This Friday will be 30 days since I presented it for inspection, and therefore my insurance will lapse I’m led to believe? I’ve tried to get on to revenue through my online account as I can’t get a phone number or email address anywhere and no one is getting back to me. Anyone in the same boat?