School using point system for punishment

pure.conya

Raisins wrote: »

Why are you so shocked that the breakdown mightn’t be available? This is a school setting : there’s literally hundreds of students in most secondary schools with multiple incidents happening every class that might or might not necessitate a point depending on the context. If speaking while a teacher is speaking or distracting the class gets a point (I don’t know if it would), does the teacher then: stop teaching, correct behaviour, note the point and then separately add it to a master record with an explanation so that’s a available in the even a parent wants to challenge? If a teacher has to hand out points to 3/4/5 students what happens to the lesson if that’s the process on each occasion. Correcting a student alone kills momentum before you even get into that bureaucracy.

Points system seems sensible at a departmental conference but challenging parents will bring a end to it fairly quickly. Just let the teacher do his / her job - it’s not a criminal summons - unless there’s multiple detentions or incidents I can’t see how a parent can consider those demands reasonable. Btw I’m not a teacher.

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

Ave Sodalis

JustAThought wrote: »

As a parent you parent your child -stop blaming everyone and asking your ‘friend’s why your child is being punished for their bad behaviour -the answer is with the childs who sounds like they are being enabled and facilitated at every turn in their disruptive behaviour by their patents and their parents ‘friend’.

they should create sin bin for these kids outside the classroom and put them in it and require their parents to livestream them from their work and have to supervise them.Why should behaving children have their education disrupted by interruption and antics by spoilt badly behaved children and their parents who refuse to man up to their responsibilities and parent. Been going on for decades.

And how are they supposed to do that if they don't know what they're disciplining their child for? Regardless of how you feel about whether the child was in the wrong or not, there needs to be open lines of communication between the school and the parents and by the sounds of it, that's not happening. How are parents expected to help if they don't know what it is they're helping with?

TheBoyConor

JustAThought wrote: »

they should create sin bin for these kids outside the classroom and put them in it and require their parents to livestream them from their work and have to supervise them.

I'm sorry, but that is just a stupid idea. Videoing a live streaming children on the internet and require parents to login and look at them.

Any idea how much that would cost to set up and maintain?
Parents have better things to be doing than remotely watching their kids sitting in
a sin bin.
And schools have better things to be doing than messing about with all this IT related crap and all the GDPR and privacy mayhem that goes along with it.

Ridiculous idea.

It is also a form of institutional bullying aimed at humiliating the child. That is not acceptable.

Antares35

pure.conya wrote: »

so parents should be teaching their kids that if they're being victimised by a teacher or teachers, they should just accept their fate and be subservient to their masters, kinda like it was decades ago in Ireland, just look how that worked out

Kind of extreme isn't it? Surely they need to accept that there are consequences to their actions. Doesn't mean they are subservient to "masters". I am pretty sure there is a large breadth of middle ground between institutional child abuse and parents having a conniption and considering legal action because their child was disciplined.

Bobeagleburger

People always look for someone to blame when the truth is staring them in the face. If a child is racking up points and detentions maybe the root cause is poor parenting.

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

There is a lot more idiot parents than horrible teachers.

It's generally the most vocal parents on these matters that have the cheekiest pups of kids too. Teachers don't "pick" on kids they reprimand ones who misbehave but too many parents don't want to believe their little "angel" wold ever get in trouble.

pure.conya

Antares35 wrote: »

Kind of extreme isn't it? Surely they need to accept that there are consequences to their actions. Doesn't mean they are subservient to "masters". I am pretty sure there is a large breadth of middle ground between institutional child abuse and parents having a conniption and considering legal action because their child was disciplined.

the parents aren't considering legal action though, that was suggested on here alright, I'm sure the parents would just like to see the details of the points for their child, simple enough request really

Electric Sheep

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Parents have better things to be doing than remotely watching their kids sitting in
a sin bin.

Apparently they have better things to do than teach their kids how to behave as well.

happyoutish

This thread has just gone off on one really.

so here's an update....

My friend, (and yes it is about a friend, for those thinking this is about me, it actually is not, not that i should have to explain myself to anyone!!) got a call this morning from the school secretary and they are attending the school next week for a meeting.

As i have said before, they are not trying to get ANYONE out of detention, they just want to understand firstly how the points where assigned, why they were assigned and how many points their child has received. And if their child has become so disruptive (as some of you think), then why weren't they called since the child had no previous bad behavior issues in the school, it would be so out of character, you would assume that such a turn would warrant a phone call to the parents.

Thank you for all your input, it is appreciated even if some of you think that I was only looking for one answer... I wasn't, i was looking for some advice and people's experience. I respect everyone's opinion, some i felt were quite judgemental when none of you know this child, you jumped to the conclusion that this child was being disruptive or presenting bad behavior just because they had received points and perhaps you are right, but as i said before, going on previous behavior and knowing the child, it would be so out of character.

I will give an update when I get one. Thanks.

crossman47

pure.conya wrote: »

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

More paperwork to get in the way of teaching.

km79

happyoutish wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering does anyone have a son/daughter attend a secondary school were there is a point system used as punishment and if so what are your thoughts on it?

I have a close friend whose child is going through a really rough time at school right now because of these points, two teachers in particular seem to be throwing out points willy nilly and it has really started to affect the young persons confidence and they have become really withdrawn. The school are refusing to give a list of the points to the parents as requested and they have now issued detention for the young person without providing the information requested.

Anyone have any experience or advice on these point systems in school? Thanks.

Most schools send code of behavior out to parents to READ , sign and return at start of each school year. It is also often in students diaries .
Assuming this happened the points system would have been outlined in the code
And accepted by parents/students when signed

That’s assuming it is the case in this particular school of course . But it is good practice for schools to do this

joe40

happyoutish wrote: »

This thread has just gone off on one really.

so here's an update....

My friend, (and yes it is about a friend, for those thinking this is about me, it actually is not, not that i should have to explain myself to anyone!!) got a call this morning from the school secretary and they are attending the school next week for a meeting.

As i have said before, they are not trying to get ANYONE out of detention, they just want to understand firstly how the points where assigned, why they were assigned and how many points their child has received. And if their child has become so disruptive (as some of you think), then why weren't they called since the child had no previous bad behavior issues in the school, it would be so out of character, you would assume that such a turn would warrant a phone call to the parents.

Thank you for all your input, it is appreciated even if some of you think that I was only looking for one answer... I wasn't, i was looking for some advice and people's experience. I respect everyone's opinion, some i felt were quite judgemental when none of you know this child, you jumped to the conclusion that this child was being disruptive or presenting bad behavior just because they had received points and perhaps you are right, but as i said before, going on previous behavior and knowing the child, it would be so out of character.

I will give an update when I get one. Thanks.

Based on the situation you have described and the child's character, I think your friends are been reasonable and balanced.
I am a teacher in a large secondary school and have seen my fair share of awkward parents and virtually unteachable kids. That does not appear to be what you're describing.

I personally would not like the idea of a points system, it is too inflexible and unless applied absolutely rigidly to the exact same standard by every teacher it would not work.
I would prefer for teachers to comment on actual issues. Each one may be minor on its own but if patterns develop they can then be acted on.

pure.conya

crossman47 wrote: »

More paperwork to get in the way of teaching.

but it would only get in the way of teaching if a teacher was trying to hand out points willy nilly, so your point is totally invalid

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

but it would only get in the way of teaching if a teacher was trying to hand out points willy nilly, so your point is totally invalid

It would get in the way full stop. Teaching is plagued with paper work, inspections and other such rubbish. It’s far less off it that’s needed not adding more.

If you have students that are hard to deal with where points are given often this would create a lot more totally unnecessary paper work. It’s the typical suggestion you get from a pain in the ass parent who things their child can do no wrong.

beauf

6 wrote: »

People always look for someone to blame when the truth is staring them in the face. If a child is racking up points and detentions maybe the root cause is poor parenting.

Could be any number of reasons. Poor parenting is a lazy assumption. And it is assumption if the school do not give the reasons why.

beauf

Eve Greasy Threat wrote: »

It would get in the way full stop. Teaching is plagued with paper work, inspections and other such rubbish. It’s far less off it that’s needed not adding more.

If you have students that are hard to deal with where points are given often this would create a lot more totally unnecessary paper work. It’s the typical suggestion you get from a pain in the ass parent who things their child can do no wrong.

It's always a good sign when people don't want perhaps even fear inspections and transparency. Isn't it. Regardless of what job its teaching, it could be banking, working in a shop etc.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

It's always a good sign when people don't want perhaps even fear inspections and transparency. Isn't it. Regardless of what job its teaching, it could be banking, working in a shop etc.

If you knew teachers and knew the nonsense that these inspections are then you would say different. Teaching is much worse off for all the stuff that has come in in recent times.

Raisins

beauf wrote: »

It's always a good sign when people don't want perhaps even fear inspections and transparency. Isn't it. Regardless of what job its teaching, it could be banking, working in a shop etc.

Wrong not all jobs are the same. Transparency is a noble concept nobody should argue with but how you implement that in a workplace has to fit the environment.

Easy to throw around those terms without having any understanding of how they operate in a job you think you understand but of which you actually have no experience whatsoever.

Desk job, shop assistant, block layer, truck driver, teacher, surgeon - different work environments.

beauf

Was there some suggestion that one shoe fits all. I must have missed that.

Trying to keep people on side is going to be hard if you hide information from them.

beauf

Eve Greasy Threat wrote: »

If you knew teachers and knew the nonsense that these inspections are then you would say different. Teaching is much worse off for all the stuff that has come in in recent times.

There is a balance to be struck between no reporting and Excessive and pointless reporting. That doesn't mean there should be no reporting.

If the school wants a parent to take involvement in helping a student, then not telling them anything seems an odd way to do it.

bobbyss

happyoutish wrote:

As i have said before, they are not trying to get ANYONE out of detention, they just want to understand firstly how the points where assigned, why they were assigned and how many points their child has received. And if their child has become so disruptive (as some of you think), then why weren't they called since the child had no previous bad behavior issues in the school, it would be so out of character, you would assume that such a turn would warrant a phone call to the parents.

Detention is a serious thing especially for kids who have no bad behavioural issues.

Your friend would be entitled to look at any and all policies of the school. They could (should?) even be on school's website?
These policies would have to have been approved by the BOM. They should ask to have a copy of it. What does it say about how and why points are assigned? Does it make itself clear about that? I get a sense that the school is not giving full information because maybe they actually don't have a BOM approved written policy or that it's not a particularly good one.
If my child was detained without a full explanation I would be asking questions of the school also. Any parent would.

Your friend could also ask to be invited to a future BOM meeting to discuss the matter. The school will want that like a hole in the head and will do anything to avoid this happening.

Soneone above described vocal parents negatively. Surely any parent would stand by their kid. And in this instance it seems al they want is information?

happyoutish

Hi all,

an update for you all...

So the detention was revoked... it seems a teacher was getting point happy and i'm sorry to say this but was giving points without even the knowledge of the child!! They have asked to attend a BOM meeting. Thats all I should probably say about the matter for now. But for all of you doubters that thought just because the child was getting points they must have behaving badly, don't be so quick to judge the next time.

Thank you everyone for your opinions and advice

I still don't know why this thread is in the Galway city forum.

biko

Me neither but AH didn't want it and I couldn't think of another place.

ben.schlomo

biko wrote: »

Me neither but AH didn't want it and I couldn't think of another place.

Education?

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Education?

Or parenting.

happyoutish

Eve Greasy Threat wrote: »

I still don't know why this thread is in the Galway city forum.

I had put it in Galway City because it is a school in the city.



It seems to bother you enough to post that, and for that I apologise.