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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    sheroman01 wrote:
    We had to cancel our trip to Lisbon. Return flight is tomorrow. Want to change the date to June (that’s fine) but also want to change the origin from Lisbon>Dublin to Birmingham>Dublin. Aer Lingus will not allow this. Nor will they offer us a full refund. We are still willing to fly with them! They lose no money! Morons.


    June is still very close. I'd be looking for the Autumn rather than the summer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭acequion


    Quick question. Was due to go to the Algarve for a few days at Easter. At present Portugal haven't closed their borders and flights are still officially operating.

    If they declare a state of emergency [that's expected] and if the EU close borders, though Ireland is not in the Schengen zone, does that mean we'll get refunded. Booked to fly ryanair and insured by VHI multitrip.

    The hotel is offering credit to come out at a later time. Does that mean multi trip won't cover if we opt to cancel the hotel?

    Thanks to anyone who might know. Been in denial and was sooooo hoping for a miracle!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Can't blame them in fairness.

    They are gaming their customers, not a good corporate look in the middle of a crisis like this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    acequion wrote:
    If they declare a state of emergency [that's expected] and if the EU close borders, though Ireland is not in the Schengen zone, does that mean we'll get refunded. Booked to fly ryanair and insured by VHI multitrip.


    It's likely we will ban EU travel for 30 days in the next day or two. The Irish government has said only essential travel & your insurance should pay out on that alone imo. Also I think Ryanair is offering flight rescheduling. I know Aer Lingus are


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭acequion


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's likely we will ban EU travel for 30 days in the next day or two. The Irish government has said only essential travel & your insurance should pay out on that alone imo. Also I think Ryanair is offering flight rescheduling. I know Aer Lingus are

    Thanks Sleeper12 and yes they are offering rescheduling. But exorbitant fares at mo for the October school break. Same with my hotel. At the moment everything would cost double so sod that! Especially with a recession most likely on the way.

    So my preferred option right now would be a refund and review everything at a later, calmer time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,157 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    acequion wrote:
    So my preferred option right now would be a refund and review everything at a later, calmer time.

    If Leo goes with the 30 day travel ban then you get refund without going near your insurance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    spurious wrote: »
    The numbers are miniscule.
    I will be off to Spain end of next month. Looking forward to it.

    I trust you didn’t get


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    I trust you didn’t get

    "The numbers are miniscule"

    Jesus remember when we all thought that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭yellow hen


    We're due to go London next week with Ryanair. Trying to reschedule a pre-paid hotel but the flights are currently still standing. Ryanair has indicated plans to ground it's European flights by the 24th but probably won't include key routes such as london. And the 30 day travel ban, if enforced, does not include England as far as I understand. Is that right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's likely we will ban EU travel for 30 days in the next day or two. The Irish government has said only essential travel & your insurance should pay out on that alone imo. Also I think Ryanair is offering flight rescheduling. I know Aer Lingus are

    Insurance should pay out, I totally agree. Ours didn't!! (Insureandgo annual multitrip) Government directives were an exclusion on our policy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭Boxcar_Willie


    I have two upcoming flights booked , one with Aer Lingus , the other Ryanair .
    Aer Lingus have emailed me offering a voucher for the full cost plus 10% which I am happy to take .
    Ryanair , however , want me to reschedule , which I am unable to do.
    Would I be better off waiting until they cancel the flight and then seek a refund ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Ryanair , however , want me to reschedule , which I am unable to do.
    Would I be better off waiting until they cancel the flight and then seek a refund ?
    I'm waiting for cancellations!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,401 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    I'm waiting for cancellations!

    Same here. I’ve nine flights booked over the next two and a bit weeks with four different airlines. Only two cancelled so far.

    One (Ryanair) refunded to bank account and the other (Wizz Air) cancelled and gave me 120% credit to use. Then away from the main body of the mail in a sidebar another paragraph saying they’ll be in touch in two weeks offering refund which I thought was quite sneaky.

    It’s money I spent months ago so long since budgeted for but I will take cash over vouchers or date changes as I probably won’t be booking any flights for a while now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,150 ✭✭✭✭LuckyGent88


    I’m in the same boat. Waiting in ryanair to cancel my upcoming flights.

    Due to fly to Dublin from Germany with my partner and baby but we are obviously not doing that now. I was just going to travel myself as my parents are home alone with little help around but I can’t do that as the German government have banned travel from outside the Schengen block of countries of which Ireland is one of them!!!

    So if I fly to Ireland, I can’t come back!!! Hope that the flights are just cancelled altogether as it’s hard to predict when to reschedule them for. Looking at first week of July at the moment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,401 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    I’m in the same boat. Waiting in ryanair to cancel my upcoming flights.

    Due to fly to Dublin from Germany with my partner and baby but we are obviously not doing that now. I was just going to travel myself as my parents are home alone with little help around but I can’t do that as the German government have banned travel from outside the Schengen block of countries of which Ireland is one of them!!!

    So if I fly to Ireland, I can’t come back!!! Hope that the flights are just cancelled altogether as it’s hard to predict when to reschedule them for. Looking at first week of July at the moment

    Tough situation for you. At least my flights were all leisure. All the best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    I'm waiting for cancellations!

    Ours (with Ryanair) were cancelled for Tenerife next Tuesday thank God. Have to fill out an online form to claim refund, which I think is just onerous as wouldn't work for me. Kept telling me reservation number was incorrect, which I checked several times!! Anyone else have trouble?
    Aer lingus have offered us the vouchers as mentioned for our flights in May but no t&C's relating to same...so hard to know...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Tippgirl74 wrote: »
    Ours (with Ryanair) were cancelled for Tenerife next Tuesday thank God. Have to fill out an online form to claim refund, which I think is just onerous as wouldn't work for me. Kept telling me reservation number was incorrect, which I checked several times!! Anyone else have trouble?
    Aer lingus have offered us the vouchers as mentioned for our flights in May but no t&C's relating to same...so hard to know...

    They are saying a bit further back in this thread that the best time to try is about 3.00am. Not joking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    elperello wrote: »
    They are saying a bit further back in this thread that the best time to try is about 3.00am. Not joking.

    Many thanks but I hope to be sleeping soundly at that hour!! I'm bad enough at the moment trying to deal with all this upheaval without losing sleep too!! Finding it kinda hard to stay grounded and positive and not get caught up in all the anxiety....

    But thanks for the tip 😊ðŸ‘


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    We're flying to Florida the first 2 weeks in August. Got an email yesterday to say the holiday has to be paid in full by April 23rd, don't really want to pay a further 4k on top of the 1k deposit we already paid with such uncertainty and especially with America not even letting Irish people in at the moment.
    It took China 3 months with very harsh methods to stop the virus I can't see how America will have it kick by the summer.
    Really don't know what to do!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    We're flying to Florida the first 2 weeks in August. Got an email yesterday to say the holiday has to be paid in full by April 23rd, don't really want to pay a further 4k on top of the 1k deposit we already paid with such uncertainty and especially with America not even letting Irish people in at the moment.
    It took China 3 months with very harsh methods to stop the virus I can't see how America will have it kick by the summer.
    Really don't know what to do!

    I'm basically in the exact same situation, I'm paying it and then claiming from insurance if/when it comes to it I think.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    hots wrote: »
    I'm basically in the exact same situation, I'm paying it and then claiming from insurance if/when it comes to it I think.

    I'm going to ring in awhile and suss them out to see if there is any flexibility but I'll probably do the same as you in the end.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    So my father in law (US Citizen) is in Sicily, and has been there for a few weeks. He's been self isolating, as it's pretty bad over there, and seems symptom free. He wants to leave soon, but with how bad it looks like it might get in the US, we were thinking he could come here and stay with us (and continue to self isolate). While we haven't been self isolating, we are keeping any contact with people to an absolute minimum.

    Are there restrictions on flights from Sicily to Ireland, and is there anything we need to do before he gets here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,145 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Kiith wrote: »
    So my father in law (US Citizen) is in Sicily, and has been there for a few weeks. He's been self isolating, as it's pretty bad over there, and seems symptom free. He wants to leave soon, but with how bad it looks like it might get in the US, we were thinking he could come here and stay with us (and continue to self isolate). While we haven't been self isolating, we are keeping any contact with people to an absolute minimum.

    Are there restrictions on flights from Sicily to Ireland, and is there anything we need to do before he gets here?

    Airports in Italy are shut as far as I know? Sicily should be included in the national lock down in Italy so it's not self isolation, it's quarantine. Really doubt he'd be allowed to fly and even if he could there are no flights?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭otnomart


    Kiith wrote: »
    So my father in law (US Citizen) is in Sicily, and has been there for a few weeks. He's been self isolating, as it's pretty bad over there, and seems symptom free. He wants to leave soon, but with how bad it looks like it might get in the US, we were thinking he could come here and stay with us (and continue to self isolate). While we haven't been self isolating, we are keeping any contact with people to an absolute minimum.

    Are there restrictions on flights from Sicily to Ireland, and is there anything we need to do before he gets here?


    He should contact the American Embassy.


    Source for info below: https://www.visitsicily.info/en/coronavirus-disease-info-about-current-situation-in-sicily/



    "Travelling to and from Sicily is not allowed. Only foreign tourists and Italians who must return to their home-places, are allowed to travel."


    "Air transport is guaranteed through two daily flights Rome- Catania and Rome-Palermo and vice versa just for exigences of territorial continuity. All other domestic and international flights are suspended."


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Bingoo1


    Booked a holiday in Portugal with an online company (aerlingus flights, hotel and transfers) , going 30th June for a week with three family members. I paid a deposit of €550 in mid-Feb. Next installment for €700 is due on Monday next. . Can't get through to the online company. If I wanted to could I just cancel my debit card …. or am I liable to pay for the full flights of €1,000? Should I go ahead with the holiday and continue with the installments. (Total price of the holiday is €2,370) Any advice would be welcome by this unseasoned traveler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭NoeldeBournaix


    Tippgirl74 wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone has got through to ebookers regarding cancelling/modifying a non-refundable booking... seeing as this is uncharted territory thought I might give it a try? Tried calling yesterday and today with no success... didn't try too hard given the nature of the query!!!

    Really thought we were covered re. non refundable bookings with insureandgo but this was not the case.


    Ebookers just emailed to give me the option to cancel a 'non-refundable booking' I had made for a hotel in Spain mid April. I hadn't requested this, so really pleased. They say I should have a refund within 30 days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Bingoo1 wrote: »
    Booked a holiday in Portugal with an online company (aerlingus flights, hotel and transfers) , going 30th June for a week with three family members. I paid a deposit of €550 in mid-Feb. Next installment for €700 is due on Monday next. . Can't get through to the online company. If I wanted to could I just cancel my debit card …. or am I liable to pay for the full flights of €1,000? Should I go ahead with the holiday and continue with the installments. (Total price of the holiday is €2,370) Any advice would be welcome by this unseasoned traveler.

    First - read the terms and conditions on your contract ie. booking.
    Second - keep trying to contact company, keep a log of attempts.
    Third - check your travel insurance.

    If it was me I would be slow to part with any more money until the company clarified the situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Ryanair offered refund for my flight today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    Ebookers just emailed to give me the option to cancel a 'non-refundable booking' I had made for a hotel in Spain mid April. I hadn't requested this, so really pleased. They say I should have a refund within 30 days.

    I also had a great experience with ebookers. They cancelled our non refundable booking in Tenerife and refunded it in full. Will def be giving them my business again!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    I'm going to ring in awhile and suss them out to see if there is any flexibility but I'll probably do the same as you in the end.

    I would be double checking that insurance covers this. We found out the hard way that insureandgo annual multitrip gold dies not cover this,!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Bingoo1


    elperello wrote: »
    First - read the terms and conditions on your contract ie. booking.
    Second - keep trying to contact company, keep a log of attempts.
    Third - check your travel insurance.

    If it was me I would be slow to part with any more money until the company clarified the situation.


    I tried to call them (Alpharooms) again and the automated message said they weren't taking any calls at this time ..... only contacting customers within a two week window. My contract says .......Flight bookings will incur 100% cancellation charges from the time of booking along with our administration fee of £30 per person.

    Will I be saying bye bye to my €700 on Monday? ..... take a chance and let it run. If I do get through to them I probably try and change the holiday to October. It will be very touch and go still in end of June.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Bingoo1


    Thanks Elperello for your help. Much appreciated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭CWF


    British Airways flights booked from Dublin to Singapore end of and I'm flying with Air Asia to Bali start of July and home Aug. How likely is this to go ahead?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Tippgirl74 wrote: »
    I would be double checking that insurance covers this. We found out the hard way that insureandgo annual multitrip gold dies not cover this,!!

    Our travel agent said to ring back May 12th and we can reassess the situation but we can cancel and get credit or move our dates if we wish. But the only way we'll get our money back is if Ireland is still banned from flying into America.


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    Bingoo1 wrote: »
    I tried to call them (Alpharooms) again and the automated message said they weren't taking any calls at this time ..... only contacting customers within a two week window. My contract says .......Flight bookings will incur 100% cancellation charges from the time of booking along with our administration fee of £30 per person.

    Will I be saying bye bye to my €700 on Monday? ..... take a chance and let it run. If I do get through to them I probably try and change the holiday to October. It will be very touch and go still in end of June.

    That is very stressful!! Aer lingus are now offering free changes and/or free voucher but only until May 31st. I imagine will have to be extended if this continues, but a lot of unknowns! I know loveholidays.ie waived their admin fee for cancellations/changes due to Corona virus. We had hotel in Málaga booked with them in may. Shocking that you can't get through at all!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Credit Checker Moose


    Premier Inn wrote to me offering to cancel a non refundable booking free of charge. Kudos to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭RoYoBo


    @Tippgirl74, have you asked Insureandgo whether they will transfer/extend your cover to a different date, seeing as how you have no cover at all with their policy? Mine is single trip, but it irks me that I have bought something that is actually worthless and they have my money for nothing. I haven't approached them yet to ask (other bigger issues going on for me lately, never mind the money!).

    One thing I'm certain about, if they don't accommodate me with something I will never use Insureandgo again! Big eye opener and very bad PR for them. It would cost them nothing to transfer the travel insurance to another date but it'll cost them a lot in the long term.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Bingoo1 wrote: »
    I tried to call them (Alpharooms) again and the automated message said they weren't taking any calls at this time ..... only contacting customers within a two week window. My contract says .......Flight bookings will incur 100% cancellation charges from the time of booking along with our administration fee of £30 per person.

    Will I be saying bye bye to my €700 on Monday? ..... take a chance and let it run. If I do get through to them I probably try and change the holiday to October. It will be very touch and go still in end of June.

    Consider contacting them by email so you will have a record of your communication.

    I would not give up hope. I have used Alpharooms several times, even as far back as when they were Alphabeds. I found them to be a fair and honorable company to deal with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    RoYoBo wrote: »
    @Tippgirl74, have you asked Insureandgo whether they will transfer/extend your cover to a different date, seeing as how you have no cover at all with their policy? Mine is single trip, but it irks me that I have bought something that is actually worthless and they have my money for nothing. I haven't approached them yet to ask (other bigger issues going on for me lately, never mind the money!).

    One thing I'm certain about, if they don't accommodate me with something I will never use Insureandgo again! Big eye opener and very bad PR for them. It would cost them nothing to transfer the travel insurance to another date but it'll cost them a lot in the long term.

    It's at times like this you find out who the good companies are in the travel business.

    A lot of them rode the mass travel bandwagon but are running for cover when they are needed most.

    Insureandstay doesn't have quite the same ring to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Tippgirl74


    RoYoBo wrote: »
    @Tippgirl74, have you asked Insureandgo whether they will transfer/extend your cover to a different date, seeing as how you have no cover at all with their policy? Mine is single trip, but it irks me that I have bought something that is actually worthless and they have my money for nothing. I haven't approached them yet to ask (other bigger issues going on for me lately, never mind the money!).

    One thing I'm certain about, if they don't accommodate me with something I will never use Insureandgo again! Big eye opener and very bad PR for them. It would cost them nothing to transfer the travel insurance to another date but it'll cost them a lot in the long term.

    Good idea!! No didn't think about that when it's an annual policy. Might be worth trying Monday if I can get through. I am also ringing to cancel. Remember they have an automatic renewal!!

    As it turns out we have been incredibly blessed and lost no money. Ryanair cancelled our flights next Tuesday. Full refund. Ebookers refunded non-refundable accommodation. Hotel agreed to this in fairness when I phoned. Couldn't have been nicer. Hotel Best Semiramis. Claimed aer lingus vouchers for flight to Málaga in may and loveholidays cancelled refundable booking for hotel with no charge. So all's well that ends well.

    But was incredibly stressful trying to sort this past few weeks as we stood to lose what for us is a lot of money between the 2 hols!! Sorry to hear that you are dealing with big issues. I'm sure the extra stress isn't helping.

    I would never ever again get insurance with insureandgo!! There's way better out there!! AA and VHI insurance both covered corona. Customer service was poor and very dismissive. When all this is over I intend to start a thread on best travel insurance out there!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭yellow hen


    Premier Inn wrote to me offering to cancel a non refundable booking free of charge. Kudos to them.

    Lucky. We had to book another date!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Bingoo1


    elperello wrote: »
    Consider contacting them by email so you will have a record of your communication.

    I would not give up hope. I have used Alpharooms several times, even as far back as when they were Alphabeds. I found them to be a fair and honorable company to deal with.[/QUOTE

    Yes. I'll email them. Thanks for the advice.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    yellow hen wrote: »
    Lucky. We had to book another date!

    Wow, we could only change our Novotel (Accor) non refundable booking to another date in 2020.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Wuff Wuff


    Wow, we could only change our Novotel (Accor) non refundable booking to another date in 2020.

    I got a refund from IBIS (Accor) for a non refundable booking 27 - 30 March


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,310 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    As has been said folks, remember the companies who have been kind to customers

    And the ones who haven’t

    We’ll all be going on holidays again. It’d be nice to reward the ones who looked after us


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    yellow hen wrote: »
    Lucky. We had to book another date!

    I got to cancel my booking for a refund from Premier Inn. I think anyone with bookings for before 31 May got this option. Will most definitely stay with them again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭RoYoBo


    Tippgirl74 wrote: »
    Good idea!! No didn't think about that when it's an annual policy. Might be worth trying Monday if I can get through. I am also ringing to cancel. Remember they have an automatic renewal!!

    As it turns out we have been incredibly blessed and lost no money. Ryanair cancelled our flights next Tuesday. Full refund. Ebookers refunded non-refundable accommodation. Hotel agreed to this in fairness when I phoned. Couldn't have been nicer. Hotel Best Semiramis. Claimed aer lingus vouchers for flight to Málaga in may and loveholidays cancelled refundable booking for hotel with no charge. So all's well that ends well.

    But was incredibly stressful trying to sort this past few weeks as we stood to lose what for us is a lot of money between the 2 hols!! Sorry to hear that you are dealing with big issues. I'm sure the extra stress isn't helping.

    I would never ever again get insurance with insureandgo!! There's way better out there!! AA and VHI insurance both covered corona. Customer service was poor and very dismissive. When all this is over I intend to start a thread on best travel insurance out there!!

    Thanks, Tippgirl, for your kind thoughts. A close family member has recently been diagnosed with a life threatening illness (aggressive cancer) so it puts all else into perspective :(

    That's a good idea re a travel insurance thread - I'll be adding my input if you do. I've often been asked about travel insurance and, since I've never claimed, have always added a caveat when recommending Insureandgo. Will be going out of my way to let people know about them from now on. There WILL be life and business after this is over but not likely for them.

    We were lucky enough with the rest of the holiday expenses and have been told we'll get the flights refunded (Aer Lingus) and our accommodation deposit will be transferred to another date. Hopefully, they'll still be in business, as they're an independent agent in Spain.

    Stay well :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭acequion


    Sorry if this has come up already! I had a trip planned to Portugal from 6th to 10th April. The outbound flight is cancelled but not the return, WTF???

    I want the refund and anyway I can't come back if I don't go out! Does anyone know what I'm supposed to do? Or should I be posting this query somewhere else. Please help! Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    acequion wrote: »
    Sorry if this has come up already! I had a trip planned to Portugal from 6th to 10th April. The outbound flight is cancelled but not the return, WTF???

    I want the refund and anyway I can't come back if I don't go out! Does anyone know what I'm supposed to do? Or should I be posting this query somewhere else. Please help! Thanks.

    Just sit tight you will be ok.

    The airline will refund eventually when their systems catch up.

    Which airline is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭acequion


    elperello wrote: »
    Just sit tight you will be ok.

    The airline will refund eventually when their systems catch up.

    Which airline is it?

    Sorry,Ryanair. And thanks for reply.

    As of yet I've clicked into nothing as I want the whole lot refunded. So do I just wait it out or should I click for the refund on the outgoing flight?

    Thanks again!


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