I did not want to show the world the sadness in my eyes.

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

Thtats exactly what you did as per below. Claiming there would be a generation of women acting like deers on ice because if the posters outlook and attitude. As Sateofyou specifically referenced family members in their comprehensive list, it's a fair to believe that your criticism extends to them also.

"Edit: Meet too was mostly exagerated accusations also. Tbh, continue on with your narrative, but don't start complaining if you raise a generation of women that act like deers on ice when they leave the house.'

Ugh, I do not want to waste my time with this but you have a point in the same way some people sometimes get the right answer if they try the test enough. I really hate to fall down the hole of deflection and having to explain something, but I meant more on a community level.



and I stand by what I Said. If you see how american women act when they go abroad, you would not want Irish women to turn into them.



But, again, my point has been deflected by finger pointing and a false accusation against me. It is bizarre how you are supporting a post which is made up of false accusers.

anewme

creditcarder wrote: »

Hmmm, is calling someone antiquated/mysognist a micro-false accusation

Excuse me, its yourself that mentioned mysigony.

Im referencing the attitude that people have to take bs to move up in a Company. That's gone out with the Ark.

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

Excuse me, its yourself that mentioned mysigony.

Im referencing the attitude that people have to take bs to move up in a Company. That's gone out with the Ark.

I will not excuse you as you are completly avoiding answering any kind of questions. You are not excused


You can say whatever you want to say but taking BS in a company is part and parcel. A man who is reliable, does his job and works hard will get ahead more than a man who has a chip on his shoulder and throws his toys out of his pram.



Man, I am loving this similes/metaphors.



Again, you have completly derailed the conversation. Do you have anything of value to add? I am curious why you liked the post so much and why you are ignoring the flase accusation aspect. Although, I don't really care beyond entertainment between working from home.

anewme

creditcarder wrote: »

Ugh, I do not want to waste my time with this but you have a point in the same way some people sometimes get the right answer if they try the test enough. I really hate to fall down the hole of deflection and having to explain something, but I meant more on a community level.



and I stand by what I Said. If you see how american women act when they go abroad, you would not want Irish women to turn into them.



But, again, my point has been deflected by finger pointing and a false accusation against me. It is bizarre how you are supporting a post which is made up of false accusers.

Gross generalisation "American women."

I've worked in the Corporate world for years now, and I've colleagues from all over the world. There is no one size fits all.

You are the one who references a post made up of false accusations. Who are you to judge?

Would you be calling people that the poster knows but you dont, liars?

anewme

creditcarder wrote: »

I will not excuse you as you are completly avoiding answering any kind of questions. You are not excused


You can say whatever you want to say but taking BS in a company is part and parcel. A man who is reliable, does his job and works hard will get ahead more than a man who has a chip on his shoulder and throws his toys out of his pram.

No, it's not. A man or woman can be reliable, do their job competently and work hard without taking bs or having a chip on their shoulder.

Bullying management culture will not be tolerated in todays working world.

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

Gross generalisation "American women."

I've worked in the Corporate world for years now, and I've colleagues from all over the world. There is no one size fits all.

You are the one who references a post made up of false accusations. Who are you to judge?

Would you be calling people that the poster knows but you dont, liars?

This is bizarre.



I stand by what I said about american women as they are very easy to spot. They have a weird kind of nervousness small dog thing going and, imo, they treat the local men awfully. My deer on ice metaphor is perfect.



I feel like I'm teaching middle school girls all over again :P

Edit: did you actually ask me why I am judging a false accuser?

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

No, it's not. A man or woman can be reliable, do their job competently and work hard without taking bs or having a chip on their shoulder.

Bullying management culture will not be tolerated in todays working world.

Who in the world is talking about bullying? Man, if I was working with you I would not want to be in a closed room without witnesses.

anewme

creditcarder wrote: »

This is bizarre.



I stand by what I said about american women as they are very easy to spot. They have a weird kind of nervousness small dog thing going and, imo, they treat the local men awfully. My deer on ice metaphor is perfect.



I feel like I'm teaching middle school girls all over again :P

Its you who is bizarre.

Strange racist comments about American women being like small dogs.? Who treat men badly. peppered with passive agressive smilies.

Teaching?

You couldn't teach a cat to **** in a box.

Bigbagofcans

Annoying when threads get derailed like this.

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

Its you who is bizarre.

Strange racist comments about American women.?

Teaching?

You couldn't teach a cat to **** in a box.

If anger doesn't work, vulgarity won't either



Are we done here? Do you have anything to add? Do you have anything of value to say? Is that the limp length of your argument that is petering away into nothing

anewme

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Annoying when threads get derailed like this.

And it usually annoys me as well.

Apologies, guilty as charged in this instance.

I believe Stateofyou made a very valid point.

creditcarder

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Annoying when threads get derailed like this.

Let's move on and not talk about...whatever in the world was being talked about.

Stateofyou

creditcarder wrote: »

That's great, but, as per usual, there is more to a woman's life than being a victim of male sexuality. On another note, good luck moving up in a company without taking BS which is the main part of working outside the house. Moving on.



Curious why you found the post to be so helpful? Was it written in a pleasing way? :P

No one said or even inferred in any way that the only aspect of a woman's life (or man's, helllooo) is to be a victim of male sexuality. When you use catastrophic logic to try to make a point you don't have one.

Actually, what people aren't allowing anymore is for themselves to be victims of other people's bad behaviour. Many are speaking up if they're able to and the hope is that things change for ourselves and our future generations. I certainly hope my children live in a better world. It's not tolerated anymore, and this shift is reflected in most workplace cultures now, in their policy's, and completely protected by legislation.

Stateofyou

To add, people are now feeling more comfortable and supported in speaking up about their experiences with sexual harassment, assault and rape. De-stigmatising mental health struggles and speaking up too. For many people, sharing their stories is therapeutic, cathartic, and powerful. It can be very empowering and provides an opportunity to get the healing and support they need. Duffy said it was "liberating" for her to speak out about it. I can understand that as when my sister spoke out, one of the things she said was that she felt like she wasn't lying or hiding it for the person who did it any longer. It felt like a shameful secret to her before she unburdened it. Afterward she got the support she needed and said that she never did as much healing in the years after it happened as she did in the day which she revealed it.
Duffy revealed her story at the time Weinstein was convicted. Maybe that's no coincidence. Now that people are feeling more able to speak up about their experiences, now that attitudes are changing, people are now able to get the support and relief that wasn't possible for people of previous generations. And that can only be a good thing.

creditcarder

Sure, having compassion is perfectly normal and good, supporting false accusers (as you have tbh) is quite bad.



And I don't really like things being phrased as empowering especially something so horrific.

Edit: Tbh, I think I struck a nerve with the comment about only seeing women through violent sexuality. |Kind of interesting tbh.

eviltwin

creditcarder wrote: »

Sure, having compassion is perfectly normal and good, supporting false accusers (as you have tbh) is quite bad.



And I don't really like things being phrased as empowering especially something so horrific.

No one said rape or sexual assault is empowering but you knew that. What is empowering is exercising control over how it changes things.

creditcarder

eviltwin wrote: »

No one said rape or sexual assault is empowering but you knew that. What is empowering is exercising control over how it changes things.

...Why would I say it if I knew it? I'm going to agree to disagree.



What is your opinoin on supporting false accusers or would you like to move on?

eviltwin

creditcarder wrote: »

...Why would I say it if I knew it? I'm going to agree to disagree.



What is your opinoin on supporting false accusers or would you like to move on?

Who said rape or sexual assault is empowering then? No one.

Stop trying to derail things. My only interest in this thread is to debunk the myth that there is a right way for a rape survivor to behave.

AllForIt

SusieBlue wrote: »

No, rape victims generally don’t report to the authorities because they can’t go through the trauma of a court case, over the fear of not being believed.
So that’s a massive misrepresentation in your part.
That has absolutely nothing to do with how, if, or when they choose to disclose their assault to family, friends or the general public, and is a completely different topic entirely.
The statistic you are speaking of refers to that and not to who the victim chooses to disclose to, if at all.

Statistically, sexual assaults are among the most under reported crimes for that very reason, which is ironic given some of the posts on this thread.

I’m not trying to make anything fit, either.
Dealing with being assaulted is like dealing with the grief from the death of a loved one, or dealing with your marriage suddenly ending.
There is no standard ‘one fits all’ approach to processing the trauma.
What would seem like a normal reaction to one person would be bizarre to another, and vice verse.
This is widely accepted information and this is the accepted thinking, and unless you can show me a statistic proving there is only one standard way of handling such a traumatic event, I won’t believe you.

Can I ask you if you have some particular expertise in this area or is all this just your personal opinion?

eviltwin

AllForIt wrote: »

Can I ask you if you have some particular expertise in this area or is all this just your personal opinion?

Rape Crisis Network research shows that less than a third of victims reported it to the gardai

https://www.rapecrisis.ie/statistics.html

creditcarder

eviltwin wrote: »

Rape Crisis Network research shows that less than a third of victims reported it to the gardai

https://www.rapecrisis.ie/statistics.html

Sorry, that group is a crock of *****. You only have to read the studies for a few minutes to see the wholes in it. I haven't read that study but I can guarantee a) They include all forms of harrasment and b) they cannot give backup data due to confidenitaly .



Honest question, do you honestly believe what they are selling?



*I am being crude as I really don't like how anxiety building and manipulative they are.

eviltwin

creditcarder wrote: »

Sorry, that group is a crock of *****. You only have to read the studies for a few minutes to see the wholes in it. I haven't read that study but I can guarantee a) They include all forms of harrasment and b) they cannot give backup data due to confidenitaly .



Honest question, do you honestly believe what they are selling?



*I am being crude as I really don't like how anxiety building and manipulative they are.

Feel free to furnish stats of your own then

AllForIt

eviltwin wrote: »

Rape Crisis Network research shows that less than a third of victims reported it to the gardai

https://www.rapecrisis.ie/statistics.html

No I didn't ask for internet stats, I asked if SusieBlue specializes in this area.

Stateofyou

AllForIt wrote: »

No I didn't ask for internet stats, I asked if SusieBlue specializes in this area.

"Internet stats," compiled by those on the front lines of crises response in this area. SusieBlue doesn't have to specialise in that area or any other in order to pull information from a relevant body/source. See below for information pulled from the Central Statistics Office. Note the large amount of people who don't report until many years later.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rcv/recordedcrimevictims2018/

"A quarter of sexual violence victims who reported to An Garda Síochána in 2018 reported offences which occurred more than ten years earlier

There is sometimes a separation in time between when a crime occurred and when it was reported or became known to An Garda Síochána.

This was found to be a particular feature of reported sexual offences which are sometimes not reported by victims for what can be a substantial period of time after the offence had taken place.

63% of victims (1,754 victims) who reported sexual violence crimes to An Garda Síochána in 2018 reported offences which are recorded as having taken place less than one year prior to the reporting of the crime.

The remaining 37% of victims (1,017 victims) reported offences which occurred more than one year prior to their reporting to An Garda Síochána, and the gap between the reporting date and the date of occurrence of the crime showed considerable variation. Indeed, a quarter (25%) of sexual violence victims (683 victims) who reported crimes in 2018 reported offences which occurred more than ten years earlier. See Figure 1.3. A breakdown of the period of time between the date of occurrence and the date reported to An Garda Síochána is provided in Table 1.4.

83% of historic sexual violence reported in 2018 refers to incidents which occurred in childhood

Some 56% of victims (566 victims) of historic sexual violence crimes reported in 2018 were females who were aged under 18 at the time of the offence. A further 28% of such victims (283 victims) were males aged under 18 at the time of the offence. See Figure 1.5. As such, 83% of all victims (849 victims) of historic sexual violence crimes reported in 2018 were aged under 18 when the offences took place. Overall, females were victims in just over two thirds (69%) of historic cases.
There was considerable variation in the age at which victims did report historic sexual violence crimes. 36% of victims who reported crimes which occurred more than one year before their reporting to An Garda Síochána were females aged 30 years or over, and 21% were males aged 30 years or over. See Figure 1.6.

The median1 age for reporting historic sexual violence crimes was 34 years, and the median time period between reporting and when the offences occurred was 20 years. The median reporting age was 30 years old for females, and 40 years old for males."

cloudatlas

creditcarder wrote: »

Sure, having compassion is perfectly normal and good, supporting false accusers (as you have tbh) is quite bad.



And I don't really like things being phrased as empowering especially something so horrific.

Edit: Tbh, I think I struck a nerve with the comment about only seeing women through violent sexuality. |Kind of interesting tbh.

Perhaps after reading the below you will stop repeating the myth so often perpetuated on this thread of rife false reporting of sexual assault and rape.

On false reporting:

'The evidence on false allegations fails to support public anxiety that untrue reporting is common. While the statistics on false allegations vary – and refer most often to rape and sexual assault – they are invariably and consistently low. Research for the Home Office suggests that only 4% of cases of sexual violence reported to the UK police are found or suspected to be false. Studies carried out in Europe and in the US indicate rates of between 2% and 6%.

It’s important to recognise that even official statistics on false reporting can and have been inflated by other factors. Sometimes police record cases as “no crime” or “unfounded”. This can happen when it’s difficult to attain sufficient corroborating evidence. There is, however, a big difference between the inability to demonstrate in court that an offence has happened and claiming that these cases are false. These sorts of cases have nevertheless been conflated with false allegations'. http://www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

creditcarder

cloudatlas wrote: »

Perhaps after reading the below you will stop repeating the myth so often perpetuated on this thread of rife false reporting of sexual assault and rape.

On false reporting:

'The evidence on false allegations fails to support public anxiety that untrue reporting is common. While the statistics on false allegations vary – and refer most often to rape and sexual assault – they are invariably and consistently low. Research for the Home Office suggests that only 4% of cases of sexual violence reported to the UK police are found or suspected to be false. Studies carried out in Europe and in the US indicate rates of between 2% and 6%.

It’s important to recognise that even official statistics on false reporting can and have been inflated by other factors. Sometimes police record cases as “no crime” or “unfounded”. This can happen when it’s difficult to attain sufficient corroborating evidence. There is, however, a big difference between the inability to demonstrate in court that an offence has happened and claiming that these cases are false. These sorts of cases have nevertheless been conflated with false allegations'. http://www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

What do you expect me to say exactly? It's a way of looking at data and interpreting data. the same person with a different point of view would see the lack of evidence as the woman lying, which I obviously don't agree with.



Are tehy talking rapes, or are they putting it all together including groping as sexual asault?

SusieBlue

AllForIt wrote: »

Can I ask you if you have some particular expertise in this area or is all this just your personal opinion?

Why on earth would I answer such a personal question when you've done nothing but sneer at any contributions I've made here so far?

All the statistics I've referred to can be found on any of the rape crisis websites. Its common, undisputed knowledge.

creditcarder

SusieBlue wrote: »

Why on earth would I answer such a personal question when you've done nothing but sneer at any contributions I've made here so far?

All the statistics I've referred to can be found on any of the rape crisis websites. Its common, undisputed knowledge.

I wouldn't undisputed tbh. As I have highlighted elsewhere, the rape crisis centre has the most flawed studies I have seen in my life.

cloudatlas

creditcarder wrote: »

What do you expect me to say exactly? It's a way of looking at data and interpreting data. the same person with a different point of view would see the lack of evidence as the woman lying, which I obviously don't agree with.



Are tehy talking rapes, or are they putting it all together including groping as sexual asault?

It's an academic review of different studies that have been peer reviewed and approved by recognised funding bodies. What in the world would satisfy you? Even when faced with facts you will still return and go back and forth about it...

creditcarder

cloudatlas wrote: »

It's an academic review of different studies that have been peer reviewed and approved by recognised funding bodies. What in the world would satisfy you? Even when faced with facts you will still return and go back and forth about it...

I am satisfied when I am satisfied as I can actually think for myself

anewme

creditcarder wrote: »

I am satisfied when I am satisfied as I can actually think for myself

But no one else needs to justify themselves to you or your degree of satisfaction, or thought process, or lack thereof.

creditcarder

creditcarder wrote: »

Sorry, that group is a crock of *****. You only have to read the studies for a few minutes to see the wholes in it. I haven't read that study but I can guarantee.

You only have to read it for a few minutes.........
I haven't read that study!
Cannot take this poster seriously at all.

creditcarder

bubblypop wrote: »

You only have to read it for a few minutes.........
I haven't read that study!
Cannot take this poster seriously at all.

Prove me wrong and show your strenght

creditcarder

creditcarder wrote: »

Prove me wrong and show your strenght

I don't have to prove your statement about a study you haven't read, wrong.

anewme

bubblypop wrote: »

You only have to read it for a few minutes.........
I haven't read that study!
Cannot take this poster seriously at all.

Noise.

creditcarder

anewme wrote: »

But no one else needs to justify themselves to you or your degree of satisfaction, or thought process, or lack thereof.

That's great as you are speaking common sense besides the last part which is just funny.

Again, if you do not see the flaws in the argument highlighted, then good luck to you.

cloudatlas

creditcarder wrote: »

I am satisfied when I am satisfied as I can actually think for myself

No you're biased and are determined to think the worst of women and victims of violence no matter what, so there is really no argument to be made, you have nothing to back up the way you think which is sexist and weird.

anewme

cloudatlas wrote: »

No you're biased and are determined to think the worst of women and victims of violence no matter what, so there is really no argument to be made, you have nothing to back up the way you think which is sexist and weird.

Persecution complex.

creditcarder

cloudatlas wrote: »

No you're biased and are determined to think the worst of women and victims of violence no matter what, so there is really no argument to be made, you have nothing to back up the way you think which is sexist and weird.

Did you actually use weird as an argument while making a false accusation of sexism?

Tbh, I have no clue whether what happened happened, but I find how people are supporting for no reason.

I don't have to prove your statement about a study you haven't read, wrong.

That's nice. Edit: In fairness, you do have a point. It is impossible to prove a study doesn't have wholes.

Persecution complex.

Yup. Your right . Do you have any other false accusation to make?

cloudatlas

creditcarder wrote: »

Did you actually use weird as an argument while making a false accusation of sexism?

Tbh, I have no clue whether what happened happened, but I find how people are supporting for no reason.



That's nice. Edit: In fairness, you do have a point. It is impossible to prove a study doesn't have wholes.



Yup. Your right . Do you have any other false accusation to make?

I hope to god you aren't in a relationship, right now.

creditcarder

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope to god you aren't in a relationship, right now.

Hmmm, are you afraid of gaslighting or emotional abuse? Bit of a leap tbh

Edit:

It's intersting how many false accusations of sexism/mysogny/at best being a negative and being an abusive partner.

How would this play out in real life if I was working in a company? Would I be called sexist and a mysognist that supports rape and violence? Would I be hinted at being a bad/abusive partner all for simply disagreeing?

Interesting to think about tbh, but this silliness very rarely happens in the real world.

AllForIt

SusieBlue wrote: »

Why on earth would I answer such a personal question when you've done nothing but sneer at any contributions I've made here so far?

All the statistics I've referred to can be found on any of the rape crisis websites. Its common, undisputed knowledge.

I absolutely have not sneered at any of your comments. I might have argued against them but I have not sneered at them. If anything I've been sneered at, including this comment of your own.

I asked a valid question, which was do you have some personal experiences in this area, or is what you are saying your personal opinion.

From your response I gather it's your personal opinion based off stats. Fine. I would have been willing to accept your opinion much more readily if your not basing your opinion off stats. It seems to me you have no personal insight on this issue no more than I have, thus If you don't mind I'll interpret the stats in a way I see fit as you do. Your interpretation is as valid as mine.

From what I can see you are speaking as an authority on the issue...based on stats. Stats can be interpreted in endless ways and there is no certainty the stats are correct in the first place.

Therefore I don't think you're an authority on the subject, you are free to voice you opinion as am I. If you don't mind.

creditcarder

AllForIt wrote: »

I absolutely have not sneered at any of your comments. I might have argued against them but I have not sneered at them. If anything I've been sneered at, including this comment of your own.

I asked a valid question, which was do you have some personal experiences in this area, or is what you are saying your personal opinion.

From your response I gather it's your personal opinion based off stats. Fine. I would have been willing to accept your opinion much more readily if your not basing your opinion off stats. It seems to me you have no personal insight on this issue no more than I have, thus If you don't mind I'll interpret the stats in a way I see fit as you do. Your interpretation is as valid as mine.

From what I can see you are speaking as an authority on the issue...based on stats. Stats can be interpreted in endless ways and there is no certainty the stats are correct in the first place.

Therefore I don't think you're an authority on the subject, you are free to voice you opinion as am I. If you don't mind.

She said you were sneering so that you spend more time explaining/defending yourself than actually, you know, having the poster defend their beliefs :P



Pretty toxic tbh

El_Duderino 09

Millicently wrote: »

You have repeatedly said that if someone says that they've been raped they should be believed.

Find a single, solitary post where I said that. Even one. It should be easy since you think I did it “repeatedly”. Cheers.

You won’t find even one example because I haven’t said it even once. But off absolutely love if you tried and had to admit you can’t find any.

Here’s an example of what I actually did say. It’s from the first couple of pages of the thread.

“I don’t believe her just because she said it. All we have is one person’s word. But I don’t disbelieve her either.

If someone’s tells me they were raped I’d treat them with the compassion as if they definitely were raped but I’d also want to verify whether it’s actually true before I’d believe it.”


But do give me an example of where I “repeatedly” said someone says they’ve been raped they should be believed.

creditcarder

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Find a single, solitary post where I said that. Even one. It should be easy since you think I did it “repeatedly”. Cheers.

You won’t find even one example because I haven’t said it even once. But off absolutely love if you tried and had to admit you can’t find any.

Here’s an example of what I actually did say. It’s from the first couple of pages of the thread.

“I don’t believe her just because she said it. All we have is one person’s word. But I don’t disbelieve her either.

If someone’s tells me they were raped I’d treat them with the compassion as if they definitely were raped but I’d also want to verify whether it’s actually true before I’d believe it.”


But do give me an example of where I “repeatedly” said someone says they’ve been raped they should be believed.

Bingo. I am a hot blooded irish man (:)) but, in reality I don't really disbelieve her or believe. I just find it out that so many believe her as, if there is something else going on, it is a bit of a diservice.



I would advise against compassion imo as the person more needs someone to tell than someone to care for them. And, details can become blurred if the person is nervous about losing the compassion. Which is understandable in fairness.

creditcarder

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope to god you aren't in a relationship, right now.

Still curious what you meant by that? Bit harsh to be calling someone a domestic abuser :P

Hangdogroad

Some more details have emerged. Can't link as on phone. Says she was drugged at a restaurant on her birthday.

Reading between the lines, if the story is true, it had to be someone she was in a relationship with at the time.