Corona Virus and events

Kurt_Godel.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Would any of you even want to be racing before a vaccine is found?
Obviously a sprint start line and fields events don't have the same bundle of crowds but sure you'd still be sharing other close spaces with groups of people. I can't imagine how swimming pools will actually open in July...all those shared surfaces...

Every organisation is waiting for someone else to make the first move... in the case of swimming above, SwimUSA have issued detailed guidelines on how to reopen lane swimming in a COVID19 world. FINA, LEN, and SI are likely to use this as a template model. Its quite practical, if game-changing. A far bigger factor IMO for pools reopening will be cost, as facilities will be restricted by numbers and gym income.

International Triathlon Union have likewise issued detailed guidelines on how their races might restart, again with a strong emphasis on social distancing and sanitation/disinfection.

I haven't yet seen anything concrete from athletics organisers, but would imagine USATF will be the first to put their head above the parapet, and other organisations will follow. Outdoor T&F should be low-risk under proper social distance practices, albeit longer events 800m up may have to be run in lanes.

Have to say I'm delighted to see some concrete guidance on reopening coming from some governing bodies, minimising risk to a level which opens life up again is preferable to the fallacy of "if it saves just one life.."

average_runner

rovers_runner wrote: »

The point about cancer is that there is a disease in the general population that anyone can get at any given time.
Far more common than this virus and life goes on for the people diagnosed and the general public.
Same for any other illnesses.

Once it's finally accepted that it is only affecting the obese or immune compromised life will go back to normal.

But its not only affecting the obese or immune comprised people.

rovers_runner

average_runner wrote: »

But its not only affecting the obese or immune comprised people.

Aside from healthcare workers who have been overexposed to it there are little or no cases involving people who had no underlying problems.
There are always going to be a few outliers where people assumed they had no underlying conditions or immune problems.

py

rovers_runner wrote: »

Aside from healthcare workers who have been overexposed to it there are little or no cases involving people who had no underlying problems.
There are always going to be a few outliers where people assumed they had no underlying conditions or immune problems.

That's because everyone has been locked away from each other.

Murph_D

rovers_runner wrote: »

Aside from healthcare workers who have been overexposed to it there are little or no cases involving people who had no underlying problems.
There are always going to be a few outliers where people assumed they had no underlying conditions or immune problems.

This is simply not true, or at least so general to be meaningless.

But then again, this is from someone who posts disparagingly about ‘fatties’, ‘townies’ etc.

Best ignored. Over and out.

average_runner

rovers_runner wrote: »

Aside from healthcare workers who have been overexposed to it there are little or no cases involving people who had no underlying problems.
There are always going to be a few outliers where people assumed they had no underlying conditions or immune problems.

But is that not because there is no one in pubs drinking or in Coppers etc?

KSU

rovers_runner wrote: »

Aside from healthcare workers who have been overexposed to it there are little or no cases involving people who had no underlying problems.
There are always going to be a few outliers where people assumed they had no underlying conditions or immune problems.

The underlying problems bit is the issue. Many under 40s go years with un diagnosed underlying h problems. We are a nation who are terrible for getting check ups.

You are also ignoring the large portion of asymptomatic cases. But aside from those facts people are saying it is personal choice when in fact it’s not you are weighing up the risk on everyone in contact with you subsequently be that elderly, coeliac, people with CF, type one diabetics just to name a few examples.

Also I have mentioned before but demographics of those who organise and steward events doesn’t lend itself to low risk events.

Chivito550

KSU wrote: »

The underlying problems bit is the issue. Many under 40s go years with un diagnosed underlying h problems. We are a nation who are terrible for getting check ups.

You are also ignoring the large portion of asymptomatic cases. But aside from those facts people are saying it is personal choice when in fact it’s not you are weighing up the risk on everyone in contact with you subsequently be that elderly, coeliac, people with CF, type one diabetics just to name a few examples.

Also I have mentioned before but demographics of those who organise and steward events doesn’t lend itself to low risk events.

There has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. There may never be a vaccine. We can't lockdown the country forever.

In 3 years time, if we still have no vaccine, are people still going to hold off living their lives? The economic and mental health results will be catastrophic.

Right now Pieta House's fundraising is taking a dramatic hit, a charity needed by many at this time. How much more will they be needed in 3 years time if we are not able to live our lives? They probably won't exist if this continues on a good deal longer.

rovers_runner

Murph_D wrote: »

This is simply not true, or at least so general to be meaningless.

But then again, this is from someone who posts disparagingly about ‘fatties’, ‘townies’ etc.

Best ignored. Over and out.

You'll see from the image wall of the healthcare workers the reality of the situation.
So not only over exposure but also BMI is just as much a cause.


Doctors, nurses, porters, volunteers: the UK health workers who have died from Covid-19

RacoonQueen

Chivito550 wrote: »

The risk of contracting coronavirus from running in outdoor sprint races is as low as getting into a car accident. It's an acceptable risk to take. You wouldn't decide not to get in a car or on a bike because there's a small chance you'd be in an accident.

If there are races, I'll be running in them.

Everyone is entitled to their own decision on the matter. Mine will be to race.

Bit of an unnecessarily aggressive response there...I was only asking if you'd be happy to race, all you had to do was say yes. :rolleyes: Car crashes are not contagious by the way, silly thing to compare it to, I can't understand why people continue to compare a contagious virus to things that are not contagious. You might as well compare it to the likely hood of stubbing your big toe AND breaking it.

RacoonQueen

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Every organisation is waiting for someone else to make the first move... in the case of swimming above, SwimUSA have issued detailed guidelines on how to reopen lane swimming in a COVID19 world. FINA, LEN, and SI are likely to use this as a template model. Its quite practical, if game-changing. A far bigger factor IMO for pools reopening will be cost, as facilities will be restricted by numbers and gym income.

International Triathlon Union have likewise issued detailed guidelines on how their races might restart, again with a strong emphasis on social distancing and sanitation/disinfection.

I haven't yet seen anything concrete from athletics organisers, but would imagine USATF will be the first to put their head above the parapet, and other organisations will follow. Outdoor T&F should be low-risk under proper social distance practices, albeit longer events 800m up may have to be run in lanes.

Have to say I'm delighted to see some concrete guidance on reopening coming from some governing bodies, minimising risk to a level which opens life up again is preferable to the fallacy of "if it saves just one life.."

It's not being in the actual pool that is the risk though. It's all the other surfaces and shared spaces that are.

Chivito550

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Bit of an unnecessarily aggressive response there...I was only asking if you'd be happy to race, all you had to do was say yes. :rolleyes: Car crashes are not contagious by the way, silly thing to compare it to, I can't understand why people continue to compare a contagious virus to things that are not contagious. You might as well compare it to the likely hood of stubbing your big toe AND breaking it.

Nah, I was perfectly calm typing that. No aggression at all

But if looking to be offended floats your boat, then knock yourself out.

I'm comparing the level of risk. That's all. There is very little chance of catching or passing on Covid 19 running in a sprint race.

It's a level of risk I'd be willing to take. Going to a bar is not a level of risk I'd be willing to take.

rovers_runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Bit of an unnecessarily aggressive response there...I was only asking if you'd be happy to race, all you had to do was say yes. :rolleyes: Car crashes are not contagious by the way, silly thing to compare it to, I can't understand why people continue to compare a contagious virus to things that are not contagious. You might as well compare it to the likely hood of stubbing your big toe AND breaking it.

Covid kills people, Cancer kills people.
Cancer however can take any person at any time, should we all stop living due to the risk?
Why isn't smoking banned outright? Why not ban all the chemicals found to have links to cancer?

KSU

Chivito550 wrote: »

There has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. There may never be a vaccine. We can't lockdown the country forever.

In 3 years time, if we still have no vaccine, are people still going to hold off living their lives? The economic and mental health results will be catastrophic.

Right now Pieta House's fundraising is taking a dramatic hit, a charity needed by many at this time. How much more will they be needed in 3 years time if we are not able to live our lives? They probably won't exist if this continues on a good deal longer.

Well aware of pieta’s plight (especially speaking to one of the founders of Darkness into light the past week)

My point was that it is not just a personal choice.

While they are applauding transmission rates being in the 0.5-0.6 range as prediction it is still high for large gatherings and given that to date no indications show minimal chance of catching repeat bouts.

I don’t believe risk levels are going to remain this high forever but at the same time I wouldn’t be rushing to get racing anytime this year personally as I still see risk to people’s health as paramount.

Chivito550

KSU wrote: »

Well aware of pieta’s plight (especially speaking to one of the founders of Darkness into light the past week)

My point was that it is not just a personal choice.

While they are applauding transmission rates being in the 0.5-0.6 range as prediction it is still high for large gatherings and given that to date no indications show minimal chance of catching repeat bouts.

I don’t believe risk levels are going to remain this high forever but at the same time I wouldn’t be rushing to get racing anytime this year personally as I still see risk to people’s health as paramount.

The government have allowed sporting events with social distancing to take place in phase 3. They are no doubt in constant contact to the HSE. I'll do whatever they recommend. If they say sporting events with social distancing is fine, then I will take part in such events. Sprinting us easy to do with social distancing.

Chivito550

KSU wrote: »

Well aware of pieta’s plight (especially speaking to one of the founders of Darkness into light the past week)

My point was that it is not just a personal choice.

While they are applauding transmission rates being in the 0.5-0.6 range as prediction it is still high for large gatherings and given that to date no indications show minimal chance of catching repeat bouts.

I don’t believe risk levels are going to remain this high forever but at the same time I wouldn’t be rushing to get racing anytime this year personally as I still see risk to people’s health as paramount.

The government have allowed sporting events with social distancing to take place in phase 3. They are no doubt in constant contact with the HSE. I'll do whatever they recommend. If they say sporting events with social distancing is fine, then I will take part in such events. Sprinting is easy to do with social distancing. This isn't exactly the Dublin Marathon, rugby or sumo wrestling.

RacoonQueen

rovers_runner wrote: »

Covid kills people, Cancer kills people.
Cancer however can take any person at any time, should we all stop living due to the risk?
Why isn't smoking banned outright? Why not ban all the chemicals found to have links to cancer?

Again, cancer is not contagious. In many cases (my own included) there is no explanation as to where it came from. I'd be delighted if they banned smoking...still irrelevant to Covid-19 anyway.

RacoonQueen

Chivito550 wrote: »

Nah, I was perfectly calm typing that. No aggression at all

But if looking to be offended floats your boat, then knock yourself out.

I'm comparing the level of risk. That's all. There is very little chance of catching or passing on Covid 19 running in a sprint race.

It's a level of risk I'd be willing to take. Going to a bar is not a level of risk I'd be willing to take.

You've completely ignored what I actually said in my original post you quoted. I acknowledged a sprint field is going to be different but that the problem there would be the rest of the shared spaces at a meet.

Kurt_Godel.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

It's not being in the actual pool that is the risk though. It's all the other surfaces and shared spaces that are.

Did you read them? Both the Swim and Tri guidelines deal extensively with risk from surfaces and shared spaces.

RacoonQueen

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Did you read them? Both the Swim and Tri guidelines deal extensively with risk from surfaces and shared spaces.

No, I only came into the thread so we can evaluate all the posts people keep reporting and got distracted. I'll read them after work.


*still won't go near the pool myself regardless, people in gyms are filthy

KSU

Chivito550 wrote: »

If they say sporting events with social distancing is fine, then I will take part in such events. Sprinting is easy to do with social distancing. This isn't exactly the Dublin Marathon, rugby or sumo wrestling.

Sprinting is but again you are talking about a lot of variables

- Some participants won’t drive so you take public transport into it.

- Some people might live with healthcare workers (or in fact are health care workers) or retail.

- restricting lanes is fine but you rely on people to adhere during warm ups and cooldown as where.

As the last while has proved government policy and social adherence don’t always match so while the action itself might indeed be safe you are relying on all participants being socially responsible which unfortunately not everyone is which is why personally I would err on the side of caution even after government policy dictates. And while this is a personal choice it is also taking into account those around me.

Hurrache

Chivito550 wrote: »

The risk of contracting coronavirus from running in outdoor sprint races is as low as getting into a car accident.

The risk is not within the race itself.

Chivito550

RacoonQueen wrote: »

You've completely ignored what I actually said in my original post you quoted. I acknowledged a sprint field is going to be different but that the problem there would be the rest of the shared spaces at a meet.

They'd have to have structures in place to ensure all athletes, coaches and officials maintain social distance but at an outdoor track this is very achievable. Not so much at an indoor track. Distance running is trickier unless every race has a pacemaker to stretch the field out (again very achievable, but wouldn't be good for championships). Sprint and field events are easily done though. I don't believe it's fair for most of the sport to suffer because one discipline is harder to run with social distancing. Athletics Ireland will need to be innovative.

Hurrache

rovers_runner wrote: »

Covid kills people, Cancer kills people.
Cancer however can take any person at any time, should we all stop living due to the risk?
Why isn't smoking banned outright? Why not ban all the chemicals found to have links to cancer?

So many straw men you could open a Worzel Gummidge factory.

KSU

Chivito550 wrote: »

They'd have to have structures in place to ensure all athletes, coaches and officials maintain social distance but at an outdoor track this is very achievable. Not so much at an indoor track. Distance running is trickier unless every race has a pacemaker to stretch the field out (again very achievable, but wouldn't be good for championships). Sprint and field events are easily done though. I don't believe it's fair for most of the sport to suffer because one discipline is harder to run with social distancing. Athletics Ireland will need to be innovative.

There is a big assumption that people would follow these strictly. Might be cynical but in these situations you have to put yourself from the point of view of the dumbest person in the room.

How many rules and guidelines are blatantly ignored prior to this? (no headphones in races, don't cross the infield while events going on) you put alot of faith (and indeed your health and the health of those around you) in the people you are competing with. Given the rants here on people not abiding by social distancing guidelines ido you think everyone will sacrafice and "edge" as they perceive it in a competitive situation.

Sacksian

I think official AI competition - track races and probably xc - are a lot more likely this year than road races. There may be additional licensing / public liability considerations for road races that make it prohibitive for smaller races (and the larger races may be unlikely to be sanctioned).

We'll know by August whether the roadmap has been a responsible policy or not and, at that point, if we do have officially sanctioned races, it's up to the individuals involved to gauge their personal risk. They will likely only be officially sanctioned if the social risk is considered to be minimal.

If everyone has lost the run of themselves by June or July, then there'll be no racing. But, if not, it would be hard to argue against races that are being held with the backing of public health advice.

BeepBeep67

Local county councils, AGS, emergency services that are involved in sanctioning events don't want to be assoicated with a cluster/community outbreak. I reckon most will take a conservative approach and not sanction.

Kurt_Godel.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

No, I only came into the thread so we can evaluate all the posts people keep reporting and got distracted. I'll read them after work.

Too much work M on a forum that should be fun. Heres a word to the wise:

1. if you sense someone is just posting to rile people up, ban them for a week. Thats the bread and butter stuff of having your name in bold font.

2. any whiney post-reporters, ban them for a day. Snitches get stitches. If they are multiple whiney post-reporters, ban them for a week. Trust me, its the merciful thing to do, if they get annoyed by contrary opinions on a site that has an "ignore" feature.

3. might be an idea to just randomly ban posters to keep everyone on their toes. Certainly anyone who distracts/annoys you from being awesome during the day; automatic week ban.

4. anyone who complains, make it a lifetime ban. They will appeal to Boards HQ who will bargain that down to a month... everyone feels justified and everyone wins.

5. any jackass telling you how to do your job gets a lifetime ban for back-seat modding.

KSU

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Too much work M on a forum that should be fun. Heres a word to the wise:

1. if you sense someone is just posting to rile people up, ban them for a week. Thats the bread and butter stuff of having your name in bold font.

2. any whiney post-reporters, ban them for a day. Snitches get stitches. If they are multiple whiney post-reporters, ban them for a week. Trust me, its the merciful thing to do, if they get annoyed by contrary opinions on a site that has an "ignore" feature.

3. might be an idea to just randomly ban posters to keep everyone on their toes. Certainly anyone who distracts/annoys you from being awesome during the day; automatic week ban.

4. anyone who complains, make it a lifetime ban. They will appeal to Boards HQ who will bargain that down to a month... everyone feels justified and everyone wins.

5. any jackass telling you how to do your job gets a lifetime ban for back-seat modding.

Me and Woddle really had a cushy number while you were about :P

BeepBeep67

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Too much work M on a forum that should be fun. Heres a word to the wise:

1. if you sense someone is just posting to rile people up, ban them for a week. Thats the bread and butter stuff of having your name in bold font.

2. any whiney post-reporters, ban them for a day. Snitches get stitches. If they are multiple whiney post-reporters, ban them for a week. Trust me, its the merciful thing to do, if they get annoyed by contrary opinions on a site that has an "ignore" feature.

3. might be an idea to just randomly ban posters to keep everyone on their toes. Certainly anyone who distracts/annoys you from being awesome during the day; automatic week ban.

4. anyone who complains, make it a lifetime ban. They will appeal to Boards HQ who will bargain that down to a month... everyone feels justified and everyone wins.

5. any jackass telling you how to do your job gets a lifetime ban for back-seat modding.

F'5ing-F'5ing-F'5ing

ultrapercy

All I want is to run a race. Is it too much to ask that people risk their own health, possibly life and potentially the future of humanity so I can do my hobby? Whats so hard sbout that? Its only a plague,

average_runner

ultrapercy wrote: »

All I want is to run a race. Is it too much to ask that people risk their own health, possibly life and potentially the future of humanity so I can do my hobby? Whats so hard sbout that? Its only a plague,

I think we are losing the run of ourselves.

I get my coat.

williestroker1

ultrapercy wrote: »

All I want is to run a race. Is it too much to ask that people risk their own health, possibly life and potentially the future of humanity so I can do my hobby? Whats so hard sbout that? Its only a plague,

Its not a plague, its a very naughty flu!

IvoryTower

I thought it was a joke

OOnegative

Dam tot Damloop the biggest race on the Dutch running calendar gone today. Talk the Amsterdam & Rotterdam marathons will be elite only if they do take place.

Sacksian

Kingston Mills (14th on the Irish all-time list with a marathon pb of 2:13.55!) in today's Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/marathon-efforts-can-distance-runners-keep-safely-apart-1.4251855

Distance runners moving at any reasonable pace present no significant risk of spreading Covid-19. The problem, according to Prof Kingston Mills, is, say, 25,000 of them setting off at the same time.

...

“When you’re actually out on the road or the track running, you’re not much of a risk to anyone else,” says Mills, offering some comfort perhaps to most pedestrians and other passersby.

....

“If you take the sprint events, athletes in their own lane, that wouldn’t be a great risk, nor the 1,500m or 800m perhaps, as I don’t see outdoor running, say an eight-person race, as being a huge risk either. Again, maybe in the congregating beforehand, but once they’re running out on the track it’s not a huge risk.

KSU

Sacksian wrote: »

Kingston Mills (14th on the Irish all-time list with a marathon pb of 2:13.55!) in today's Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/marathon-efforts-can-distance-runners-keep-safely-apart-1.4251855

On the bright note, group training to be reinstated next week it seems (just announced by AAI)

IvoryTower

1. People can engage in outdoor sporting and fitness activities, either individually or in very small groups (maximum 4 people), where social distancing can be maintained and where there is no contact
2. People living within a 5 km radius of their athletic club can attend to train

Stark

Any link to the announcement? Is it as IvoryTower said, only 4 people allowed train together at a time?

KSU

IvoryTower wrote: »

1. People can engage in outdoor sporting and fitness activities, either individually or in very small groups (maximum 4 people), where social distancing can be maintained and where there is no contact
2. People living within a 5 km radius of their athletic club can attend to train

https://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/results/Phase_1_Guide_for_Athletes_Athletics_13_May_2020_(1).pdf

KSU

Stark wrote: »

Any link to the announcement? Is it as IvoryTower said, only 4 people allowed train together at a time?

https://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/coronavirus-covid-19-update/

IvoryTower

what i posted was the summary they gave on facebook of main points

Ceepo

Just wondering if anyone heard anything about DCM. I thought there was to be a decision yesterday.
I haven't seen anything yet. But I could have missed it
(considering it just dawned on me today is Friday not Thursday )

Guill

Ceepo wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone heard anything about DCM. I thought there was to be a decision yesterday.
I haven't seen anything yet. But I could have missed it
(considering it just dawned on me today is Friday not Thursday )

Nothing yet. I'll eat my runners if it goes ahead.
Can't imagine going from just getting kids back to school to 25k people in corrals.

Ceepo

Guill wrote: »

Nothing yet. I'll eat my runners if it goes ahead.
Can't imagine going from just getting kids back to school to 25k people in corrals.

I don't see it going ahead either. Tbh.
Just that it was reported on Wednesday that an announcement would be made yesterday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/marathon-efforts-can-distance-runners-keep-safely-apart-1.4251855?mode=amp

cullenswood

They had up on twitter that a board meeting was taking place this week and an announcement early next week.

sideswipe

I think they should have pacers who are infected with cover-19. I'll start 2 meters ahead of the sub 3 hour guys and have extra incentive not to let them pass me going up heartbreak hill!

skyblue46

Refunds today for National championship entries...5k and 5 mile, 10k and 10 mile. If the plug is being pulled on those there won't be anything else approved.

rovers_runner

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics/dublin-marathon-expected-to-be-cancelled-39209024.html



Dublin Marathon expected to be cancelled
Last year's Dublin Marathon
Last year's Dublin Marathon
Sean McGoldrick

May 15 2020 12:35 PM

The 2020 Dublin Marathon is expected to be cancelled today.

The Board of Directors met last night to discuss the future of the race which was scheduled for Sunday, October 25. It would have been the 41st running of the event which has been sold out for months.

A decision on the future of the event could not be delayed any longer as the merchandise for this year's race needs to be ordered in the next couple of weeks.

But given the current rules on social distancing which are likely to remain in place for the foreseeable future, running an event which is likely to have over 20,000 participants and a quarter of a million spectators, is not practical.

Medical experts have suggested that the risk of participants in a marathon passing on the virus to fellow runners during the race itself is very low. However, it would still be regarded as unsafe due to the congregation of the runners at the start at the start of the race.

The last big city marathon to take place prior to the worldwide Covid 19 shutdown as the Tokyo marathon in which only the elite runners were allowed participate.

All the other major spring marathons such as Boston and London were postponed until the autumn.

Major question marks remain over whether they will now go ahead as the Berlin marathon which was due to take place in September has already been cancelled.

The Dublin marathon, which was the brainchild of Louis Hogan - then a radio producer with RTE - and the late Noel Carroll was first held in 1980 on the October Bank Holiday Monday.

After an initial surge in interest the event almost folded during the 1990s when participation levels dropped to below 3,000.

However, under the leadership of current race director Jim Aughney the event was revived and now attracts over 20,000 entries annually.

opus

Ok that's pretty much a clean sweep of everything I'd entered for the whole year. Wonder if there's any chance of Run the Line going ahead in Nov? Much smaller event although pretty crowded at the start for sure.