Corona Virus and events

average_runner

opus wrote: »

One of the loops I do has me ~7k away from home before I start heading back however can't say I'm losing any sleep over it.

But is that 7k radius or 7k distance


Someone could be watching you:D

opus

Don't use Strava & have connections to precisely two people via Garmin both of whom I know well so reasonably confident they're not busy denouncing me

OOnegative

OOnegative wrote: »

Permits for any social gatherings won’t be issued here before the 6th of May at the earliest. There’s still over 5,000 cases daily here so long way to go before Amsterdam will take place. If I had to give my honest opinion on it, Amsterdam won’t happen in 2021.

Love to be proved wrong though.

In saying that entries for the CPC Loop Den Haag in September opened this morning, maybe they know something I don’t.

Kurt_Godel.

UM1 wrote: »

Must be only rules for some of us
https://www.facebook.com/Urban-Ultra-Races-Dublin-101124665399054/

I know I'll be an easy target for some for saying this... but it looks like they organised a small event with a lot of smiling faces. Personally speaking, it's a delight to see people happy and exercising, so good luck to them. The rest of the world seems to be able to do similar small-scale gatherings and limit transmission risk... IMO the problem here is overly-restrictive Irish rules.

At this stage the benefit is worth the risk.

^2cents worth of opinion on an opinion forum

OOnegative

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

I know I'll be an easy target for some for saying this... but it looks like they organised a small event with a lot of smiling faces. Personally speaking, it's a delight to see people happy and exercising, so good luck to them. The rest of the world seems to be able to do similar small-scale gatherings and limit transmission risk... IMO the problem here is overly-restrictive Irish rules.

At this stage the benefit is worth the risk.

^2cents worth of opinion on an opinion forum

Nothing of the sort happening in The Netherlands so the rest of the world comparison isn’t really apt. The event at the weekend linked above is two fingers to other runners though, loads are itching to do something similar but will abide by the rules in place.

None of us like what’s happening worldwide but unless we or every other countries get our house in order it’s going to continue for a long time yet.

Slow_Runner

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

I know I'll be an easy target for some for saying this... but it looks like they organised a small event with a lot of smiling faces. Personally speaking, it's a delight to see people happy and exercising, so good luck to them. The rest of the world seems to be able to do similar small-scale gatherings and limit transmission risk... IMO the problem here is overly-restrictive Irish rules.

At this stage the benefit is worth the risk.

^2cents worth of opinion on an opinion forum

I'll see your 2 cents and raise you 2 ðŸ˜႒
Whatever a person's opinion on the restrictions (perfectly entitled to that view BTW- not arguing with that), we don't get to decide which ones we to ignore or follow, that is not how a society works, you don't like a rule you have public representatives who you can complain to.

While I agree that its great to see smiling faces at a running event, mainly because I miss it so much, what happened here is giving runners a bad name which is not hard these days.
The majority of this country are sticking more or less to the rules. A couple of people heading off for a run I can't see an issue with, a large organised "race" is just giving 2 fingers to the rest of the country many of whom have suffered mentally, financially or health wise over the last year. Sure there may not be any virus spread at this event but if we all decided to ignore the guidelines where would that leave the us? Why do they think they should be special and be let off (both legally and morally), basically putting themselves above public health.
The organising of this event was not only foolish but also incredibly selfish and shows no regard with what is going on all around us. We all want to race/meet friends/go for a pint again as soon as possible but this can only set that back rather than help
All runners are lumped in together in public opinion (same way as GAA heads, soccerballers, mamils) so we will all be tarred with the same brush and will look bad because of this.
Dick move by those who ran (in my opinion).

Kurt_Godel.

Slow_Runner wrote: »

I'll see your 2 cents and raise you 2 ðŸ˜႒
Whatever a person's opinion on the restrictions (perfectly entitled to that view BTW- not arguing with that), we don't get to decide which ones we to ignore or follow, that is not how a society works, you don't like a rule you have public representatives who you can complain to.
...

I totally appreciate where you are coming from, and its worth arguing as Devils advocate. I guess my point is a better society wouldn't impose these restrictive rules. So we get to live by compliance, rebellion, or (Irish default) asking for forgiveness rather than permission. Whatever NPHET says; and that means "stay at home".

The obvious thing to do for an island is close all borders and impose martial law for three weeks to kill viral spread. Since that's not an option apparently, I'm choosing to ignore 5k rules. I've had the virus; it's a bitch to a 50 yr old, but not so much of a bitch to society that teenagers/younger need to hunker down for over a year. Science says there's not a lot of risk of viral spread outdoors, so let 'em on.

robinph

Agree that the risk from that event is minimal to non existant. The problem is the flouting of the regulations and giving runners a bad name for when we are allowed to hold events again. Then people will suddenly remember the nonsense about catching covid from sweat or similar rubbish and complain about us meeting up of a Saturday morning for a 5km run around the local park.

It's possible to meet up with a mate for a run without making a song and dance about it and posting about it all over Facebook to draw attention to your rebellion.

Kurt_Godel.

robinph wrote: »

Agree that the risk from that event is minimal to non existant. The problem is the flouting of the regulations and giving runners a bad name for when we are allowed to hold events again. Then people will suddenly remember the nonsense about catching covid from sweat or similar rubbish and complain about us meeting up of a Saturday morning for a 5km run around the local park.

Sorry for highlighting the above if it seems out of context.

But you seem to be arguing for perception, and against science. That's the reason I made my point in the first instance.

I'd prefer to live in a society where public health was science driven, but to be honest in Ireland it's not driven by science. Infuriating (and especially so to see people complaining about others running). At this stage a small rant against a point on this message board is all I got- I look at the science and there are obvious alternatives to controlling viral spread (when you consider younger people and how they live their lives which are more important than the 50+'s)

Slow_Runner

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

I totally appreciate where you are coming from, and its worth arguing as Devils advocate. I guess my point is a better society wouldn't impose these restrictive rules. So we get to live by compliance, rebellion, or (Irish default) asking for forgiveness rather than permission. Whatever NPHET says; and that means "stay at home".

The obvious thing to do for an island is close all borders and impose martial law for three weeks to kill viral spread. Since that's not an option apparently, I'm choosing to ignore 5k rules. I've had the virus; it's a bitch to a 50 yr old, but not so much of a bitch to society that teenagers/younger need to hunker down for over a year. Science says there's not a lot of risk of viral spread outdoors, so let 'em on.

It's always worth playing Devils advocate and debating these things. Sorry to hear you had the virus and really hope you've recovered.
There is some things this government has done well and some things it hasn't ( as with all governments around the world some better than others). The thing is neither of us nor the people who decided to race at the weekend have the expertise or the data to make these decisions, NPHET would have glady done a severe lockdown (imo) but government has to take into account compliance (joys of living in a democracy).
January saw our health service almost crippled because we relaxed over Christmas (myself included), if we all just ignore what rules we don't like we will end up back there. Young people are getting sick too and new variants are making that more common.
Like it or not we are where we are and there is only one road out, holding a race is not it. God i miss racing!!

Once again it is good to have these discussions without the usual bickering and batching.

If you don't mind me asking, have you recovered fully? Are you back running and did it take long to get back to where you were (if you've got there)? Genuinely hope you have recovered.

bucketybuck

I've never joined a group and never want to, but I don't have any problem with that group deciding to go ahead and organise something.

It is one thing to say that they should be following the "rules", but whether people admit it or not we all have our own point where sticking to rules we don't agree with becomes unacceptable.

Is it after one year? Two years? We all know there is **** all harm or risk from somebody going out for a run so how many months and years are people going to sit there quietly waiting for their betters to allow them out of the house again?

I know what society is and the need for adherence to social norms and rules. But I also know the dangers of blind and unquestioning compliance to incompetence. Personally I wish there were more groups of people serving notice that they no longer accept what our government is doing (or not doing, to be more accurate) and are prepared to do something about it. A little social disobedience is healthy for a society, and this is a very mild example of it.

Kurt_Godel.

Slow_Runner wrote: »

It's always worth playing Devils advocate and debating these things. Sorry to hear you had the virus and really hope you've recovered.
There is some things this government has done well and some things it hasn't ( as with all governments around the world some better than others). The thing is neither of us nor the people who decided to race at the weekend have the expertise or the data to make these decisions, NPHET would have glady done a severe lockdown (imo) but government has to take into account compliance (joys of living in a democracy).
January saw our health service almost crippled because we relaxed over Christmas (myself included), if we all just ignore what rules we don't like we will end up back there. Young people are getting sick too and new variants are making that more common.
Like it or not we are where we are and there is only one road out, holding a race is not it. God i miss racing!!

Once again it is good to have these discussions without the usual bickering and batching.

If you don't mind me asking, have you recovered fully? Are you back running and did it take long to get back to where you were (if you've got there)? Genuinely hope you have recovered.

Appreciate your genuine questions, and agree its much better to come to these discussions with an open mind.

Yes, its all about our health service. We could be like USA (20% income tax and health insurance part of your job, and content to let those outside the system die), or have a "free" health system in Ireland (53% income tax which pays for a substandard system for everyone in the name of equality). What we do in Ireland with regard to Covid is no different to others countries- we don't want out Health system overwhelmed. Those countries that manage better do so because they have better ("better targeted") health systems.

On my personal health (and thanks for asking), I'm pretty frightened physically. Caught Covid early January, and my HR still rockets now in mid March. I run at at very slow pace and still sweat a lot. My daily lung capacity seems way down: I wake up panting at night. To be honest I'm surprised at how much its taken out of me.

But I'm age 50- at the back of my head I'm still growing up, but lets be honest, I've had my fun. My son is 18- guaranteed I wasn't worried about quarantine when I was his age; ditto my daughter who is 16. They are the ones missing out big time (from dating, from drinking, from doing all the things you don't want your parents knowing at that age). They can survive Covid better, and society should be more concerned about them than the 80+'s.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are in their 80's, and they have an awful lot to offer society- but there is a way to protect them while also allowing freedom to the younger age group in this covid world.

Slow_Runner

Jaysus Kurt sounds like you had a bad dose, take care of yourself and best of luck with the recovery.
I won't derail the thread any further, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll never judge someone for breaking the guidelines as we all have our own breaking points and we don't know what an individual is going through however what happened with this race was akin to bringing our sport into disrepute. If you are doing it as a protest then have the balls to announce it as such(like the lady who announced she was going to open her salon - I disagreed with her stance but fair play to her for taking a stand and being honest). This race was just selfish, I want to have my fun so f€=k the rest of you attitude.

ThebitterLemon

To me the notion that kids can be packed together indoors in and around schools but can’t meet outside to take part in managed sport is just completely bonkers and defies logic.

I’ve obeyed the rules but I’m fraying around the edges and I’m not sure how much longer I’m prepared to be compliant especially around outdoor activities

TbL

ger664

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

On my personal health (and thanks for asking), I'm pretty frightened physically. Caught Covid early January, and my HR still rockets now in mid March. I run at at very slow pace and still sweat a lot. My daily lung capacity seems way down: I wake up panting at night. To be honest I'm surprised at how much its taken out of me.

Kurt much the same with me got it at Christmas but don't have the breathing difficulties. I agree with you regarding lockdowns for younger age group hell even all age group are suffering from the same everyday is a Monday fatigue. Its ironic that we are trying to prevent people from doing what will eventually happen to us all.
We all get a ride in the taxi with the long window.
With lockdowns no one is getting to live their lives. For some of us that's okay cause we may have a good few more years left once this ****e passes to enjoy it, but the over 70's those whom we are trying to protect in general don't have that grace and really should be enjoying the rest of their days now and not locked up in their houses scared ****less.,

average_runner

ger664 wrote: »

Kurt much the same with me got it at Christmas but don't have the breathing difficulties. I agree with you regarding lockdowns for younger age group hell even all age group are suffering from the same everyday is a Monday fatigue. Its ironic that we are trying to prevent people from doing what will eventually happen to us all.
We all get a ride in the taxi with the long window.
With lockdowns no one is getting to live their lives. For some of us that's okay cause we may have a good few more years left once this ****e passes to enjoy it, but the over 70's those whom we are trying to protect in general don't have that grace and really should be enjoying the rest of their days now and not locked up in their houses scared ****less.,

Problem without lockdown, our hospitals would be fecked. My neighbour 18 year old had a massive heart attack last week. If it had happen in Jan she would of been dead the medics told the family.

All the intensive units would be gone.

Now shutting the borders would of been the right approach.

Annie get your Run

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Appreciate your genuine questions, and agree its much better to come to these discussions with an open mind.

Yes, its all about our health service. We could be like USA (20% income tax and health insurance part of your job, and content to let those outside the system die), or have a "free" health system in Ireland (53% income tax which pays for a substandard system for everyone in the name of equality). What we do in Ireland with regard to Covid is no different to others countries- we don't want out Health system overwhelmed. Those countries that manage better do so because they have better ("better targeted") health systems.

On my personal health (and thanks for asking), I'm pretty frightened physically. Caught Covid early January, and my HR still rockets now in mid March. I run at at very slow pace and still sweat a lot. My daily lung capacity seems way down: I wake up panting at night. To be honest I'm surprised at how much its taken out of me.

But I'm age 50- at the back of my head I'm still growing up, but lets be honest, I've had my fun. My son is 18- guaranteed I wasn't worried about quarantine when I was his age; ditto my daughter who is 16. They are the ones missing out big time (from dieting, from drinking, from doing all the things you don't want your parents knowing at that age). They can survive Covid better, and society should be more concerned about them than the 80+'s.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are in their 80's, and they have an awful lot to offer society- but there is a way to protect them while also allowing freedom to the younger age group in this covid world.

I am fraying at the edges too, it feels ludicrous that I can't go 10k down the road to hike on a mountain where you might meet one or two others but I can run/walk in my local, very busy park. The rules could easily have been expanded for specific outdoor solo activities but then I guess everyone would have been looking for their piece of the cake, we all think we should be allowed to do 'our' thing. Golfers want courses open, tennis clubs want to be allowed open etc etc.

Did you have something specific in mind re protecting older people while still allowing freedom to younger people? I don't know what the right or wrong thing to do is although I'd be a supporter of closing the border/airports to all but essential travel. I do think the people that organised that race were utterly wrong though, two fingers to the rest of us and the authorities. I wouldn't criticize someone going a few km's outside their 5km for a run/bike ride though and I think people are using their own judgement when it comes to that.

average_runner

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I am fraying at the edges too, it feels ludicrous that I can't go 10k down the road to hike on a mountain where you might meet one or two others but I can run/walk in my local, very busy park. The rules could easily have been expanded for specific outdoor solo activities but then I guess everyone would have been looking for their piece of the cake, we all think we should be allowed to do 'our' thing. Golfers want courses open, tennis clubs want to be allowed open etc etc.

Did you have something specific in mind re protecting older people while still allowing freedom to younger people? I don't know what the right or wrong thing to do is although I'd be a supporter of closing the border/airports to all but essential travel. I do think the people that organised that race were utterly wrong though, two fingers to the rest of us and the authorities. I wouldn't criticize someone going a few km's outside their 5km for a run/bike ride though and I think people are using their own judgement when it comes to that.

Alot of outdoor sports should be allowed. Kids sports should allowed

ariana`

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of outdoor sports should be allowed. Kids sports should allowed

Especially now that they are back in school as for the most part it's the same kids in school as it is in football, soccer, ballet etc...

Stark

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I am fraying at the edges too, it feels ludicrous that I can't go 10k down the road to hike on a mountain where you might meet one or two others but I can run/walk in my local, very busy park. The rules could easily have been expanded for specific outdoor solo activities but then I guess everyone would have been looking for their piece of the cake, we all think we should be allowed to do 'our' thing. Golfers want courses open, tennis clubs want to be allowed open etc etc.

Well no issues with golf and tennis also being allowed imo.

It's the way the rules are enforced that does my head in. I get having blunt blanket rules for simplicity sake rather than trying to write every exception into the rules. But then I look on Waze app and today of all days they have a checkpoint up on Ticknock to stop people walking/biking when if anything the Gardaí should be delighted that people are getting out of the city for healthy outdoor activity instead of staying in the city and partying/protesting. All about the soft targets at the end of the day.

py

Stark wrote: »

Well no issues with golf and tennis also being allowed imo.

It's the way the rules are enforced that does my head in. I get having blunt blanket rules for simplicity sake rather than trying to write every exception into the rules. But then I look on Waze app and today of all days they have a checkpoint up on Ticknock to stop people walking/biking when if anything the Gardaí should be delighted that people are getting out of the city for healthy outdoor activity instead of staying in the city and partying/protesting. All about the soft targets at the end of the day.

Even if Ticknock is within your 5Km?

Stark

Well presumably people within 5km are still allowed use the facility. I just think their priorities are messed up, you'd think they'd have more to be worrying about on St. Patrick's day than someone going for a walk more than 5km from home.

ger664

average_runner wrote: »

Problem without lockdown, our hospitals would be fecked. My neighbour 18 year old had a massive heart attack last week. If it had happen in Jan she would of been dead the medics told the family.

All the intensive units would be gone.

Now shutting the borders would of been the right approach.

Agree

We knew the second/third waves where coming so Government should have prepared last summer by

a) having the framework available to shut down borders quickly if required.
b) doubling our Hospital Capacity
c) increase testing capacity to provide random testing in communities where outbreaks occur.

No the plan was lets rinse and repeat lockdowns sure they worked the first time.

To try and bring the thread back on topic.

I managed to run some real races last year and get some golf in as well. I felt much safer doing these activities then I do now going to the shop.

As regards the 5K/2K limit I dont observe it. If I stay within the bounds I will likely meet a lot pedestrians have to step off footpaths into traffic to allow social distancing. Go a couple a few miles in any direction and its only the sheep that have to be nervous.

ThebitterLemon

ger664 wrote: »

Agree

We knew the second/third waves where coming so Government should have prepared last summer by

a) having the framework available to shut down borders quickly if required.
b) doubling our Hospital Capacity
c) increase testing capacity to provide random testing in communities where outbreaks occur.

No the plan was lets rinse and repeat lockdowns sure they worked the first time.

To try and bring the thread back on topic.

I managed to run some real races last year and get some golf in as well. I felt much safer doing these activities then I do now going to the shop.

As regards the 5K/2K limit I dont observe it. If I stay within the bounds I will likely meet a lot pedestrians have to step off footpaths into traffic to allow social distancing. Go a couple a few miles in any direction and its only the sheep that have to be nervous.

“Only the sheep that have to be nervous”

TbL

ger664

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

“Only the sheep that have to be nervous”

TbL

Yeah the cows go like is that all u got:D

Stark

Reminds me of https://m.facebook.com/angardasiochana/posts/10159012935238001 . Got to keep those sheep safe.

RacoonQueen

Stark wrote: »

Well no issues with golf and tennis also being allowed imo.

It's the way the rules are enforced that does my head in. I get having blunt blanket rules for simplicity sake rather than trying to write every exception into the rules. But then I look on Waze app and today of all days they have a checkpoint up on Ticknock to stop people walking/biking when if anything the Gardaí should be delighted that people are getting out of the city for healthy outdoor activity instead of staying in the city and partying/protesting. All about the soft targets at the end of the day.

The road up to Ticknock was closed to try avoid people parking like arseholes. They were not stopping people walking / cycling up.

Hurrache

Stark wrote: »

Well no issues with golf and tennis also being allowed imo.

It's the way the rules are enforced that does my head in. I get having blunt blanket rules for simplicity sake rather than trying to write every exception into the rules. But then I look on Waze app and today of all days they have a checkpoint up on Ticknock to stop people walking/biking when if anything the Gardaí should be delighted that people are getting out of the city for healthy outdoor activity instead of staying in the city and partying/protesting. All about the soft targets at the end of the day.

The Gardai are a law based organisation, as they should. Not too many medical and public health experts in there that can decide what and what not to enforce because it's a nice day.

zico10

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

To me the notion that kids can be packed together indoors in and around schools but can’t meet outside to take part in managed sport is just completely bonkers and defies logic.

I’ve obeyed the rules but I’m fraying around the edges and I’m not sure how much longer I’m prepared to be compliant especially around outdoor activities

TbL

I hope you’d acknowledge that getting schools back takes priority over sport or outdoor activities. For goodness sake, primary schools were only fully back the day before you made this emotive post. And this full reopening of primary schools only happened because no problems arose out of the junior classes returning to school two weeks earlier. Secondary school students won’t be fully back until after Easter. Again I imagine successfully getting over that hurdle is one of the most pressing issues Ireland is facing right now. Sport, hobbies, holidays, going to the pub, etc. can all wait.

OOnegative

https://nos.nl/artikel/2373197-ek-indoor-in-polen-levert-51-coronabesmettingen-op.html

Google translate needed but states 51 athletes out of 733 competitors have tested positive for COVID 19 since the European Indoors. Not a positive for mass participation events.

robinph

OOnegative wrote: »

https://nos.nl/artikel/2373197-ek-indoor-in-polen-levert-51-coronabesmettingen-op.html

Google translate needed but states 51 athletes out of 733 competitors have tested positive for COVID 19 since the European Indoors. Not a positive for mass participation events.

I think it's more of a problem with busses, hotels, teams hanging out in close proximity indoors.

Shouldn't be anything similar to the rest of us driving to an event, getting changed in our cars, standing in a field for 5 minutes and then running over a hill before getting back in our own cars.

Lambay island

zico10 wrote: »

I hope you’d acknowledge that getting schools back takes priority over sport or outdoor activities. For goodness sake, primary schools were only fully back the day before you made this emotive post. And this full reopening of primary schools only happened because no problems arose out of the junior classes returning to school two weeks earlier. Secondary school students won’t be fully back until after Easter. Again I imagine successfully getting over that hurdle is one of the most pressing issues Ireland is facing right now. Sport, hobbies, holidays, going to the pub, etc. can all wait.

I agree with pretty much all your post bar sport can wait. Outdoor sport for children should be back in some format(even training) in my opinion. Adults can wait that bit longer.
Mental health and increasing obesity levels are also pressing issues. We have been told obesity is a big factor in this yet "safe" physical activity has not been encouraged. The constant no you can't narrative is having an effect on the youth. People often say children are resilient and yes they are , but huge impacts like this can shape life choices.

rovers_runner

OOnegative wrote: »

https://nos.nl/artikel/2373197-ek-indoor-in-polen-levert-51-coronabesmettingen-op.html

Google translate needed but states 51 athletes out of 733 competitors have tested positive for COVID 19 since the European Indoors. Not a positive for mass participation events.

Flights are a huge problem too, evident from the Aus Open tennis.
Being in a pressurized cabin with even one affected person would surely lead to huge spread.

Reckon any events that get the go ahead will be closed to locals this year.

average_runner

zico10 wrote: »

I hope you’d acknowledge that getting schools back takes priority over sport or outdoor activities. For goodness sake, primary schools were only fully back the day before you made this emotive post. And this full reopening of primary schools only happened because no problems arose out of the junior classes returning to school two weeks earlier. Secondary school students won’t be fully back until after Easter. Again I imagine successfully getting over that hurdle is one of the most pressing issues Ireland is facing right now. Sport, hobbies, holidays, going to the pub, etc. can all wait.

Here is where the problem is. Some people go by the media instead of science. Science has always said that outdoor sports should be allowed.


Kids are out in the street playing football on the green etc.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

I think it's more of a problem with busses, hotels, teams hanging out in close proximity indoors.

Shouldn't be anything similar to the rest of us driving to an event, getting changed in our cars, standing in a field for 5 minutes and then running over a hill before getting back in our own cars.

Totally agree. Running tracks closed, one person on their own cant use it, but we can all run around the park with other people on the path.


Kids sports can't happen, but kids can pack into a playground!!!


There is no common sense anymore

average_runner

zico10 wrote: »

I hope you’d acknowledge that getting schools back takes priority over sport or outdoor activities. For goodness sake, primary schools were only fully back the day before you made this emotive post. And this full reopening of primary schools only happened because no problems arose out of the junior classes returning to school two weeks earlier. Secondary school students won’t be fully back until after Easter. Again I imagine successfully getting over that hurdle is one of the most pressing issues Ireland is facing right now. Sport, hobbies, holidays, going to the pub, etc. can all wait.

So kids can't do sport but can all be in a playground together!!!!

Hurrache

average_runner wrote: »

Here is where the problem is. Some people go by the media instead of science. Science has always said that outdoor sports should be allowed.


Kids are out in the street playing football on the green etc.

Nobody has a problem with the latter, or shouldn't anyway.

But for the most part with team and group events, kids are brought to them and despite the best efforts of organisers, parents will mill around and chat with each other. That's the actual problem.

People are too focussed on the science part and completely oblivious to the social aspect.

average_runner

Hurrache wrote: »

Nobody has a problem with the latter, or shouldn't anyway.

But for the most part with team and group events, kids are brought to them and despite the best efforts of organisers, parents will mill around and chat with each other. That's the actual problem.

People are too focussed on the science part and completely oblivious to the social aspect.

In fairness, there would be more of a social get together with parents at a playground than at training. Yet these were open throughout Level 5



Most parents are told to leave after dropping their kids off and most do.

robinph

Hurrache wrote: »

Nobody has a problem with the latter, or shouldn't anyway.

But for the most part with team and group events, kids are brought to them and despite the best efforts of organisers, parents will mill around and chat with each other. That's the actual problem.

People are too focussed on the science part and completely oblivious to the social aspect.

Yes, its the what goes on around the sport which is the actual problem.

Kids running around a field OK, parents huddled around in the club house chatting not OK.
People going to a massed running event outdoors OK, people hanging around in pubs afterwards not OK.
Elite athletes taking part in sport OK, them getting bussed to and from the event and hanging out in the hotel together not OK.
Even spectators stood on terraces of sports stadiums or at horse racing OK, getting drunk in the pub afterwards not OK.

Because it's a bit too complicated to figure out how to prevent people doing the not OK stuff that happens around organised sport we've ended up with not having any of it allowed. I think there is also a certain element of "why should they get to have fun when I'm not allowed to do my fun thing" involved so rather than having to explain that hitting a ball across a tennis net has zero risk but drinking in a crowded pub does have risks it's simpler to just ban everything to save the bother.

I think it really could have happened sooner, but as a planet we were dealing with too many unknown factors, but with junior parkrun coming back in a few weeks in England that will hopefully then start the ball rolling in people not being so terrified of the idea of doing sports outside in large groups... and then with luck we won't find things cancelled again at the first sign of slight rises in cases. No reason that kids couldn't have been running around outside for all of the last year, and only fear of the unknown back March 2020 stopped it then. Which is fine for what we knew then, but I'd hope that we now know enough that it never gets stopped again.

Hurrache

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness, there would be more of a social get together with parents at a playground than at training. Yet these were open throughout Level 5



Most parents are told to leave after dropping their kids off and most do.

Difference is though is that playground gatherings aren't organised events by an organisation, who can ultimately be held responsible.


And despite a club or organisation's best efforts, while it may be easy to identify and tell parents and mentors what's not ok, implementation is another kettle of fish. It was hard enough to get parents to come, drop off, and go, in the winter, it'll be even harder to get them to in finer weather.

At times the only thing stopping me from preventing kids joining their training session and sending them home when their return to play questionnaire wasn't filled in on time was that it wasn't the kids fault. So I'd hold them and get their parents to do it there and then before allowing them.

Volunteers in club etc have no authority to direct people to leave an area, particular public areas, other than to ask. And in fairness most will understand why they're being asked to do so, but once you get a small handful of dicks or ignorants, it can quite easily snowball.

robinph

Hurrache wrote: »

Volunteers in club etc have no authority to direct people to leave an area, particular public areas, other than to ask. And in fairness most will understand why they're being asked to do so, but once you get a small handful of dicks or ignorants, it can quite easily snowball.

Don't allow any access to indoor areas. Block off any sheltered areas or corners of buildings that people might congregate in if the weather is a bit windy/ rainy.

If everyone is just stood around under their own umbrella, or sat in their own car then there's no problem really.

Stark

Hurrache wrote:

Volunteers in club etc have no authority to direct people to leave an area, particular public areas, other than to ask. And in fairness most will understand why they're being asked to do so, but once you get a small handful of dicks or ignorants, it can quite easily snowball.

Surely there's not a lot we can do about the dickheads in general? They'll be flouting the rules regardless of what the rest of us do. Vast majority of Irish people will do what's asked of them, it's them we should be tailoring the rules for.

IMRA successfully ran races during the summer, only had issues with a couple of eejits, the vast majority of people fully complied with everything asked of them by race officials.

Hurrache

robinph wrote: »

Don't allow any access to indoor areas. Block off any sheltered areas or corners of buildings that people might congregate in if the weather is a bit windy/ rainy.

If everyone is just stood around under their own umbrella, or sat in their own car then there's no problem really.

There are no indoor areas to stand in, and people are quite happy to stand out in poor weather for a chat. And despite Ireland been known for its rain, rain is not often an issue.


IMRA ran a skeleton calendar last year, and those events were allowable under the restrictions at the given time. No different to other sporting organisations at the time.

Like I said, the risk is not from the kids playing outside, it's the while societal load that comes with that.

Stark

Hurrache wrote:

There are no indoor areas to stand in, and people are quite happy to stand out in poor weather for a chat. And despite Ireland been known for its rain, rain is not often an issue.

Is there any issue with people standing outside chatting? Any evidence I've seen suggests this is not an issue for outbreaks.

robinph

Hurrache wrote: »

There are no indoor areas to stand in, and people are quite happy to stand out in poor weather for a chat. And despite Ireland been known for its rain, rain is not often an issue.

Unless they are doing things that should really only be happening in the privacy of their own homes, then being stood around outside isn't a problem as far as transmission is concerned.

Law enforcement going along and breaking up groups of people hanging out on beaches or in parks makes for nice headlines in the newspapers and diverts some blame nicely onto others and also lets photographers use some different lenses to make the crowds seem bigger than they actually are, but theres not anything to suggest that the activity of hanging around outside for a chat is a risk.

Hurrache

Stark wrote: »

Is there any issue with people standing outside chatting? Any evidence I've seen suggests this is not an issue for outbreaks.

robinph wrote: »

Unless they are doing things that should really only be happening in the privacy of their own homes, then being stood around outside isn't a problem as far as transmission is concerned.

I suppose standing beside and chatting with another person for an hour or so is a risk. People may get comfortable being outside and not bother with the whole distancing thing. Like I said, I've seen it all prior to everything shutting down before Christmas.

I'm not arguing for a continued restriction on outdoor events, but I can see why it's not being flung open in a hurry.

robinph

Hurrache wrote: »

I suppose standing beside and chatting with another person for an hour or so is a risk. People may get comfortable being outside and not bother with the whole distancing thing. Like I said, I've seen it all prior to everything shutting down before Christmas.

I'm not arguing for a continued restriction on outdoor events, but I can see why it's not being flung open in a hurry.

There is very, very, very minimal risk from standing around outside chatting for an hour, and you'd have to be basically ontop of each other and coughing in each other faces.

The bigger risk from allowing people to mingle freely outdoors is that they forget that doing the same indoors is a relatively big risk. Simpler to just tell people to keep apart in all situations in the hope that whilst unnecessary outside in the middle of a windy field, they will remember to not be hanging around chatting in close proximity indoors as well.

Hurrache

An hour talking so someone standing beside you is a risk all the same. it's spread through droplets and just because you're outside doesn't mean they immediately dissipate, particularly if you're downwind and beside someone with it.

zico10

average_runner wrote: »

So kids can't do sport but can all be in a playground together!!!!

I didn't mention playgrounds.

zico10

Lambay island wrote: »

I agree with pretty much all your post bar sport can wait. Outdoor sport for children should be back in some format(even training) in my opinion. Adults can wait that bit longer.
Mental health and increasing obesity levels are also pressing issues. We have been told obesity is a big factor in this yet "safe" physical activity has not been encouraged. The constant no you can't narrative is having an effect on the youth. People often say children are resilient and yes they are , but huge impacts like this can shape life choices.

It boils down to this, which should come back first, schools or organised sport for kids? If you think schools, then the sport has to wait. If you think they should both return at the exact same time, then fair enough, but I'd respectively disagree.