We will not build any more (non Luas) railways: Discuss

veryangryman

I honestly cant see this happening. Other than reuse of old lines. Even Metro lines seem to be long fingered so much

Thrashssacre

veryangryman wrote: »

I honestly cant see this happening. Other than reuse of old lines. Even Metro lines seem to be long fingered so much

There certainly will be new luas lines built, finglas and Lucan for definite.

L1011

Dublin Airport spur is plausible at some stage in the future. Foynes reinstatement is also possible, privately funded though - but you did mention old lines...

IE 222

veryangryman wrote: »

I honestly cant see this happening. Other than reuse of old lines. Even Metro lines seem to be long fingered so much

Nearly everywhere was once served by rail so it would be wise to reopen previous lines rather than starting from scratch where possible.

I think we'll see some spurs been built off main lines to serve more commuter belts as they continue to grow. North county Dublin is bound to see a building boom in the near future it would be wise to look at a line here also while the land is free from obstruction.

whisky_galore

veryangryman wrote: »

Other than reuse of old lines.

Except in a few cases, Foynes being one, this land is no longer owned by the state/ Irish Rail so you're going to have to buy the current landowners out anyhow and contend with the obligatory objectors.

Okon

L1011 wrote: »

Dublin Airport spur is plausible at some stage in the future.

It wouldn't surprise me if the LUAS got to Dublin Airport before Irish Rail got there.

Markcheese

Okon wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if the LUAS got to Dublin Airport before Irish Rail got there.

Would any metro be linked / operated by Irish rail ?
I'd have thought far too many legacy issues ...
Would you bother having driver's for a fully segregated rail link ... Can't see that going down well with Irish rails unions ..

All that assuming that the f'ing thing ever gets built ...

Last Stop

The only lines I can see being built are Airport spur, Navan and DART Underground.

Other than that, I can see significant upgrades to the existing network.

Personally I’d love to see:
Quad tracking of all stations on the Cork line
Quadtrack Kildare to Cherryville junction
Double track Cherryville junction to Athy
Double track Kilkenny to Lavistown junction
Double track Portarlington to Athlone
Quad track Athlone to Westport junction
Quadtrack Connolly to Clongriffin
Removal of level crossings (or most) on southern DART
Double track Maynooth to Mullingar
Double track Galway to Athenry
Double track Limerick - Limerick junction
Electrification of Cork and Limerick lines

I know that seems like a long list but if it was implemented, it would lead to a very efficient network.

Of course it goes without saying that there would need to be a significant increase in rolling stock to cater for the growing demand

thewexman93

Why would athlone to manilla need quad tracking? And why would every station on the cork line need quad tracking.

You left out the most important of track installations - a third track somewhere between pearse and dun Laoghaire so commuter/Intercity trains can overtake darts

veryangryman

Cant see Quad Track beyond Kildare ever happening. Is there that much demand for the longer distance routes when not mixed in with the commuters or merging woth the other lines at Kildare and Portarlington? Athlone to Westport seems ok as it is, maybe double tracked at a stretch. Athlone Galway yes double track would be useful.

Last Stop

thewexman93 wrote: »

Why would athlone to manilla need quad tracking? And why would every station on the cork line need quad tracking.

You left out the most important of track installations - a third track somewhere between pearse and dun Laoghaire so commuter/Intercity trains can overtake darts

What I meant by the Westport junction was where the Westport line splits from the Galway line just west of Athlone. This would allow Athlone to act as a proper interchange station.
Upgrading the Cork line stations would allow greater opportunity for direct high speed Dublin - Cork services

I can’t see the space for a 3rd track along the southern stretch. The removal of the level crossings would be a significant improvement.

Board Walker

I doubt IE will ever Serve Dublin Airport. Train to Heuston Luas/Bus to Connoly and another train to the airport?

Can you swap maybe in Newbridge and get a train to Connolly? Wount be too bad if you could swap there and get a direct train to the airport. Not really familiar with Dublin commuter routes other than those that travel on the dart line.....

I could still see Luas getting there first, IE are full of ideas and no resuts.

donvito99

Board Walker wrote: »

I doubt IE will ever Serve Dublin Airport. Train to Heuston Luas/Bus to Connolly and another train to the airport?

I'm not sure why you'd do two changes in the future when you only need one at present.

If the 747 wasn't so meandering (i.e. if it took a straight run down the quays to the tunnel via Busaras and Connolly), you could do Heuston to the Airport in about 30 mins off peak.

I also don't understand the merits of an extension to the Airport without going further i.e. to Swords and then Donabate.

Last Stop

donvito99 wrote: »

I also don't understand the merits of an extension to the Airport without going further i.e. to Swords and then Donabate.

There is significant merit in bringing 30 million potential customers into the network. That alone should be enough to get the link built.

If it were to be extended past the airport, I would see Ashbourne as the preferred direction with a station around River Valley to serve that catchment. The rest of Swords will be well served by Metrolink and Donabate would have DART with an airport interchange at Clongriffin.

donvito99

Last Stop wrote: »

There is significant merit in bringing 30 million potential customers into the network. That alone should be enough to get the link built.

If it were to be extended past the airport, I would see Ashbourne as the preferred direction with a station around River Valley to serve that catchment. The rest of Swords will be well served by Metrolink and Donabate would have DART with an airport interchange at Clongriffin.

My suggestion was on the basis of no Metrolink and basically replicating that projects route from Lissenhall to the outskirts of the airport terminals with heavy rail, and then continuing along the proposed IÉ Dart extension alignment to Clongriffin.

The Northern Line capacity issues don't go away, but you'd route all Commuter and Belfast trains via the airport (approx 5-6 trains per hour at peak times).

The benefits of this over an Ashbourne stub as I see it are that in my scenario you have through running trains. I don't know what kind of service an Ashbourne route would look like: would it be Ashbourne - Airport - City Centre - Bray?

Last Stop

donvito99 wrote: »

My suggestion was on the basis of no Metrolink and basically replicating that projects route from Lissenhall to the outskirts of the airport terminals with heavy rail, and then continuing along the proposed IÉ Dart extension alignment to Clongriffin.

The Northern Line capacity issues don't go away, but you'd route all Commuter and Belfast trains via the airport approx 5-6 trains per hour at peak times.

The benefits of this over an Ashbourne stub as I see it are that in my scenario you have through running trains. I don't know what kind of service an Ashbourne route would look like: would it be Ashbourne - Airport - City Centre - Bray?

I think it’s a given that in the event that the airport spur does go ahead it’ll be in conjunction with quad tracking the northern line as far as Clongriffin. That’s the common sense thing to do but I wouldn’t rule out that not happening either.

The problem with trying to use heavy rail instead of metro is that they are 2 different systems. Metro is high frequency lower capacity trains with stations closer together while a heavy rail is lower frequency higher capacity trains. This type of service doesn’t really suit Swords as the development is linear along the R132.

If the northern line was quad tracked, you’d have several service possibilities for the Ashbourne spur. You could go with 5 minute DARTs with say 3 to Howth, 4 to Ashbourne and 5 to Malahide. This could then be complimented by 2 express services to Docklands or Connolly. Long term, the Northern line will join the Kildare line via DART underground which could facilitate up to 20 trains per hour and you could see several Port Laoise to Ashbourne services on top of DARTs.

Alternatively, you could just run them to Clongriffin and interchange there with DART. I’d imagine that would be the plan in the short term.

donvito99

Last Stop wrote: »

The problem with trying to use heavy rail instead of metro is that they are 2 different systems. Metro is high frequency lower capacity trains with stations closer together while a heavy rail is lower frequency higher capacity trains. This type of service doesn’t really suit Swords as the development is linear along the R132.

I think in the case of heavy rail you would see, after Donabate, stations at Lissehall near the M1 for a park and ride, a single station in Swords, an airport station and then Clongriffin.

If the northern line was quad tracked, you’d have several service possibilities for the Ashbourne spur. You could go with 5 minute DARTs with say 3 to Howth, 4 to Ashbourne and 5 to Malahide. This could then be complimented by 2 express services to Docklands or Connolly. Long term, the Northern line will join the Kildare line via DART underground which could facilitate up to 20 trains per hour and you could see several Port Laoise to Ashbourne services on top of DARTs.

Alternatively, you could just run them to Clongriffin and interchange there with DART. I’d imagine that would be the plan in the short term.

I think there's a lot of sideways, out of the way running in the case of an alignment to Ashbourne. The journey might be improved as a result of a straight in run to Connolly after Clongriffin as a result of quad tracking.

But I do think if we are going to build a railway over virgin ground to that area, it would make more sense at that point to begin at M3 Parkway, do one of Ashbourne, Ratoath or Dunshaughlin, and then think about bringing it on to Navan in future. You'd miss out on an airport link but the major draw still has to be the City Centre I would think.

Last Stop

donvito99 wrote: »

I think in the case of heavy rail you would see, after Donabate, stations at Lissehall near the M1 for a park and ride, a single station in Swords, an airport station and then Clongriffin.

There’s a large swathe of population who would be left out between Lissenhall and Swords. The original Metro North actually had another station between Seatown and the Park + Ride!

I think there's a lot of sideways, out of the way running in the case of an alignment to Ashbourne. The journey might be improved as a result of a straight in run to Connolly after Clongriffin as a result of quad tracking.

But I do think if we are going to build a railway over virgin ground to that area, it would make more sense at that point to begin at M3 Parkway, do one of Ashbourne, Ratoath or Dunshaughlin, and then think about bringing it on to Navan in future. You'd miss out on an airport link but the major draw still has to be the City Centre I would think.

It’s actually not that far. You’re journey time along the new track would be very quick too.

Ashbourne to too far east to be served by the Navan line. Even Ratoath is pushing it from the best alignment to Navan.

Personally, I think the best solution from Ashbourne in the short term is a coach based park + ride. The M2 isn’t that congested and if you had a QBC all the way to the city centre from there you’d be laughing. Of course that would require good quality buses and a reasonable price.
It also must be remembered that Finglas Luas will have a p+r near the N2. There may be a case for extending this Luas to the airport in addition to Metrolink and the DART spur of course.