"Have you drink taken?"

deandean

I've never been breathalysed in over 30 years' of driving.

I just missed, by one car, being pulled over in a random checkpoint last night on the Alfie Byrne Road. I was almost disappointed

Take a theoretical scenario where I've had one pint, two hours before driving. I'm well under the limit. What is the best thing to say to a Garda if they pull me in?

It's my understanding that they first ask "Have you drink taken?"
If I say "yes" I guess they will bag me based on the information I volunteered.
If I say "no", do they need a good reason to bag me (i.e. appearance, smell, driving). And if they test me and find alcohol well under the limit could they accuse me of lying and use this against me?

So I was thinking, to answer "no comment, Garda" and let them decide whether to test me based on their own observations. Not sure how this would go down, though!

Anyone been through a checkpoint / thoughts on this?

Jim Root

i thought even one pint would have you over the limited these days?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

They don’t ask such a stupid question... If you get pulled over, you get bagged.

sundodger5

Did they not change this? As in it is now mandatory intoxicant testing.
No need to form an opinion by the garda that you are intoxicated.
In general honesty is best i find.

killbillvol2

deandean wrote: »

So I was thinking, to answer "no comment, Garda"

Are you some kind of wannabe gangster?

Uncle Pierre

Personally, I think saying "no comment" would come across a lot worse than saying "I had one pint, two hours ago". And if you really did have only one pint, two hours earlier, then there should be nothing to worry about if they proceed to breathalyse you anyway. One pint is approx. two units of alcohol (depending on the strength of the beer) and they say the body processes approx. one unit per hour.

seamus

Meh, doesn't really make a massive difference tbh.

If they can smell drink on you and you tell them you haven't been drinking, then it'll make them suspicious. They'll definitely bag you.

If for any reason the breathalyser doesn't work, then they may be inclined to do a roadside impairment test and bring you down to the station anyway. The breathalyser is an indicative tool, not a pass/fail. If you pass, or it doesn't work, they don't have to let you carry on.

On the other hand if you're honest and you tell them you had two pints with lunch a few hours ago, and they believe you, they might say, "Go on so, you're alright" and not test you. Or if you fail the breath test, they might "accidentally" leave it two hours before doing the full test at the station so that your BAC levels will drop.

If you're over the limit, you're over. Honesty is not going to change that. But it might get you some sympathetic treatment.

Mr Tickle

deandean wrote: »

So I was thinking, to answer "no comment, Garda" and let them decide whether to test me based on their own observations. Not sure how this would go down, though!

Anyone been through a checkpoint / thoughts on this?

I'd imagine that would come across as antagonistic. I understand your logic but you could come across as a bit of a smart ass. Or at least that you're hiding something. In that case, they'd probably test you and you definitely won't get any luck if you're close to the limit.

I'd be inclined to come clean if you're confident the drink is gone from your system.

It's actually not a bad idea to get a home test kit even once to get an idea for how long it takes you to process a pint. Everyone is different and it would be a real shame to get caught out some day when you think you're following the guidelines.

johnb25

I was breathalysed just over a year ago and I think the guard just said it was a routine mandatory checkpoint.
It was around 3pm one afternoon just before Christmas, part of the campaign that runs around that time.
I think the opinion about your driving is only required if they stop you outside of a static check point.

BronsonTB

routine mandatory checkpoint


OP - You don't get a choice.

Lmklad

Depends on the checkpoint. If it’s just a standard one set up be the Garda themselves then they need a reason to breathalise you. Most checkpoints are MIT (mandatory intoxicant) which are authorised by an inspector and any driver passing may be breathalised.

Peintre Celebre

seamus wrote: »

The breathalyser is an indicative tool, not a pass/fail. If you pass, or it doesn't work, they don't have to let you carry on.

.

The breathalyser is literally a pass or fail. You'd only be kept if you failed the breathalyser if the gaurd thought you were under the influence of drugs

Dial Hard

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

The breathalyser is literally a pass or fail. You'd only be kept if you failed the breathalyser if the gaurd thought you were under the influence of drugs

I'm curious about this - it's my understanding that the breathalyser can only tell if you've alcohol in your system or not, as opposed to whether you're over or under the limit. So if the roadside test registers alcohol, it's arrested and down to the station with you, even though you may well be under the limit, which only the intoxilyser (no idea how to spell that) can actually establish. Is that correct, do you know?

Doff

You may or may or may not get tested. However, the record will show a test did get conducted.

Bogwoppit

Jim Root wrote: »

i thought even one pint would have you over the limited these days?

I had a pint of Harp in 1992, am I ok to drive?

whippet

I have been breath tested about 30 times i'd say. The best was three tests on a single 90 min drive home - I was the designated driver after an xmas party.

When I was younger I played football on a sunday morning and never drank on a saturday night but would usually go out - so I was obviously like a red flag in the wee hours with a few lads in the back of a small hatch back.

I did get stopped at a random check point twice in twenty minutes - just after they set up and I was dropping someone in to town .. looked like they were just selecting every 3rd car .. on the back back I was stopped again - told to pull over to where they were doing the tests - Guard asked if I had done one before - I said 'yes - about 20 mins ago' and he laughed when he recognised me, but said I still had to do it as I was selected at random !

RobbieMD

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm curious about this - it's my understanding that the breathalyser can only tell if you've alcohol in your system or not, as opposed to whether you're over or under the limit. So if the roadside test registers alcohol, it's arrested and down to the station with you, even though you may well be under the limit, which only the intoxilyser (no idea how to spell that) can actually establish. Is that correct, do you know?

The roadside alcometer will indicate the presence of alcohol. A guard can form an opinion based on a fail reading and arrest for drunken driving. This test is now a pass or fail. The previous device used to be a pass/fail/alert. There are two settings on the current device, specified or non specified drivers. The result of this test is an aid to a guard forming an opinion on whether someone is capable of driving or not. They can still form an opinion based on their observations without using the device.

The old Lion Intoxilyzer Irl6000 machines have been replaced with the Evidenzer Irl machines now. This machine will give results for two breath specimens the arrested persons must provide. The lower of these specimens is used and is also reduced by 17.5%. This is the final reading. At this stage you’re either over the limit or under.

skallywag

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm curious about this - it's my understanding that the breathalyser can only tell if you've alcohol in your system or not, as opposed to whether you're over or under the limit. So if the roadside test registers alcohol, it's arrested and down to the station with you, even though you may well be under the limit, which only the intoxilyser (no idea how to spell that) can actually establish. Is that correct, do you know?

Might be the case today, but was not the case when I was stopped a couple of years ago at least. After I blew into it the guard told me that the result 'was not great' and advised I pull in and have a bite to eat up the road. I can only assume that meant that I had alcohol in my system, but not enough to put me over the limit.

One way or the other it taught me a lesson about driving the next morning when I would have assumed I was completely sober.

Peintre Celebre

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm curious about this - it's my understanding that the breathalyser can only tell if you've alcohol in your system or not, as opposed to whether you're over or under the limit. So if the roadside test registers alcohol, it's arrested and down to the station with you, even though you may well be under the limit, which only the intoxilyser (no idea how to spell that) can actually establish. Is that correct, do you know?

That is correct. You are released and free to go

tipptom

Just say no.

skallywag

I am curious about this though, as in why do the guards not have the machines which can give an accurate reading based on breath content, i.e. the BAC level? The police on the continent have these, you get a readout immediately of e.g. 0.39 mg/l etc, or whatever the unit is. The roadside test is then used to ban you (if appropriate) or not. You do not even get arrested or go before a court, you simply appear before a local magistrate shortly after, who dishes out the punishment. Seems like a good system. It also removed any waiting around bolloxology which could have you below the limit before you get to the station for testing.

seamus

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

The breathalyser is literally a pass or fail. You'd only be kept if you failed the breathalyser if the gaurd thought you were under the influence of drugs

Haha, yeah I phrased that badly.

I meant that the breathalyser itself isn't legally binding - the Garda doesn't have to let you go if you pass, and strictly speaking doesn't have to arrest you for a fail, though they're unlikely to want to have to deal with that.

deandean

Crikey it seems a bit, um, primitive if the Garda checkpoint breathalysers only give a 'pass' or 'fail' reading.
I would've thought it would actually give a percentage breath alcohol figure that the Garda can use his common sense on.

seamus

No, that's actually one of the reasons that it doesn't give a level; to remove any legal arguing about it. If the device, for example, read out a 0.051 (i.e. literally marginal) and the Garda arrested you and took you down the station, it would only be a matter of days before a legal challenge was launched about calibration of the equipment and margins of error. That is, the argument would be that the reading was insufficient to justify an arrest and thus the breath test taken at the station was taken unlawfully.

When the equipment merely provides an indicative pass/fail, then this argument goes away. The Garda is still free to decide not to arrest you (afair), but when they do there is no argument about whether they had sufficient reason to arrest you.

skallywag

seamus wrote: »

No, that's actually one of the reasons that it doesn't give a level; to remove any legal arguing about it.

I know we have a different legal system in Ireland, but in, say for example, Germany, you will blow into a machine at the side of the road (it is usually in the back of the cop car) and it gives an accurate readout of your BAC level.

You blow twice and they take the lowest one, and that is used to decide there and then what is going to happen next. You do not even go to the police station if you are over the limit, your keys and license are confiscated and you get a letter in the post to turn up before a local magistrate some weeks later, where they will tell you how many months you are off the road and what fine you are paying.

It seems like a much smoother system to me at least, and I wonder what stops it being deployed in Ireland. In the case you are in an accident etc. then you are clearly arrested, etc.

seamus

It's probably a resourcing issue in Ireland. It sounds like the German cops carry around a full breathalyser machine, where here in Ireland we have them at the station.

I doubt that's standard equipment in German cop cars though? Maybe it's just for checkpoints?

skallywag

Good point.

Yes, you need to get out of the car and stand near the boot of the cop car, in which they have quite a sizeable machine, attached to a hose which you blow into. It would also have been a checkpoint where I encountered this.

partyguinness

I have been bagged twice. Absolutely no drink taken so no worries.

This is a little known trade secret (or maybe not): you may actually fail the roadside test but if it is borderline the Guards will let you go and you will be none the wiser.

Reason: the real test is when you get back to the station- that is what is reading used in Court to prosecute not the roadside reading. So if you are borderline the Guard knows full well that by the time they get you back to the station which could be another 20-30 minutes you will more than likely have dropped below the limit and free to go.

Basically a waste of everyone's time so the Guards would rather wait for someone who is well over the limit on the roadside to make it worthwhile.

OP- refusing to co operate and give a sample is prosecuted just as harshly as if you failed.

partyguinness

skallywag wrote: »

I know we have a different legal system in Ireland, but in, say for example, Germany, you will blow into a machine at the side of the road (it is usually in the back of the cop car) and it gives an accurate readout of your BAC level.

You blow twice and they take the lowest one, and that is used to decide there and then what is going to happen next. You do not even go to the police station if you are over the limit, your keys and license are confiscated and you get a letter in the post to turn up before a local magistrate some weeks later, where they will tell you how many months you are off the road and what fine you are paying.

It seems like a much smoother system to me at least, and I wonder what stops it being deployed in Ireland. In the case you are in an accident etc. then you are clearly arrested, etc.

I would put that down to the fundamental differences in the penal systems. In Germany (inquisitorial) and Ireland (adversarial).

Too much to explain here.

tayto lover

Bogwoppit wrote: »

I had a pint of Harp in 1992, am I ok to drive?

You could fry an egg on the stones here ....... if you had an egg.

Nod
Comedians have arrived

Victor

partyguinness wrote: »

This is a little known trade secret (or maybe not): you may actually fail the roadside test but if it is borderline the Guards will let you go and you will be none the wiser.

Reason: the real test is when you get back to the station- that is what is reading used in Court to prosecute not the roadside reading. So if you are borderline the Guard knows full well that by the time they get you back to the station which could be another 20-30 minutes you will more than likely have dropped below the limit and free to go.

This is not guaranteed. If someone ate a large meal and necked a bottle of vodka and got in the car, their BAC would still be rising.

tobdom

Doff wrote: »

You may or may or may not get tested. However, the record will show a test did get conducted.

or, maybe 67 tests, rather than just the one... depending on the multiplier being applied that day.....

Claw Hammer

deandean wrote: »

I've never been breathalysed in over 30 years' of driving.

I just missed, by one car, being pulled over in a random checkpoint last night on the Alfie Byrne Road. I was almost disappointed

Take a theoretical scenario where I've had one pint, two hours before driving. I'm well under the limit. What is the best thing to say to a Garda if they pull me in?

It's my understanding that they first ask "Have you drink taken?"
If I say "yes" I guess they will bag me based on the information I volunteered.
If I say "no", do they need a good reason to bag me (i.e. appearance, smell, driving). And if they test me and find alcohol well under the limit could they accuse me of lying and use this against me?

So I was thinking, to answer "no comment, Garda" and let them decide whether to test me based on their own observations. Not sure how this would go down, though!

Anyone been through a checkpoint / thoughts on this?

No comment is a very bad answer to give. You might end up being arrested and taken to the station for a breath test. You either have been drinking or you haven't.
The fact that you say you haven't been drinking means nothing. You are still going to be tested. The side of the road is not the place for a discussion of arcane jurisprudence. A guard can arrest you on suspicion of drink driving. They can ask you to take a test on a random check point, if you have alcohol taken or if you have appear to have committed any motoring offence. To get a conviction they have to prove all sorts of things but to justify an arrest they have plenty of ways to do it. Giving a smart answer and spending three hours in a garda station on your way home sounds like a plan alright.

partyguinness

Actually OP for the craic and all our amusement generally please do say "No comment" and let us know how you get on.

McCrack

seamus wrote: »

Meh, doesn't really make a massive difference tbh.

If they can smell drink on you and you tell them you haven't been drinking, then it'll make them suspicious. They'll definitely bag you.

If for any reason the breathalyser doesn't work, then they may be inclined to do a roadside impairment test and bring you down to the station anyway. The breathalyser is an indicative tool, not a pass/fail. If you pass, or it doesn't work, they don't have to let you carry on.

On the other hand if you're honest and you tell them you had two pints with lunch a few hours ago, and they believe you, they might say, "Go on so, you're alright" and not test you. Or if you fail the breath test, they might "accidentally" leave it two hours before doing the full test at the station so that your BAC levels will drop.

If you're over the limit, you're over. Honesty is not going to change that. But it might get you some sympathetic treatment.

The salmon of all knowledge - is there anything you don't know?

Truckermal

Bagged?? Are ye all living in the eighties? :P

skallywag

Truckermal wrote: »

Bagged?? Are ye all living in the eighties? :P

Must say I never had the pleasure of blowing into the bag!

DEFTLEFTHAND

You've no choice in the matter at the likes of a MIT checkpoint. The draegar is only a guide in the first place. The Guard's opinion is enough to arrest a driver. Any potential court proceedings reply on the breath, urine or blood samples taken back at the station.

Lmklad

Lmklad wrote: »

Depends on the checkpoint. If it’s just a standard one set up be the Garda themselves then they need a reason to breathalise you. Most checkpoints are MIT (mandatory intoxicant) which are authorised by an inspector and any driver passing may be breathalised.

I don't think that's true. I was breathalysed in, I think Athlone, before. It was a single garda car parked up on the footpath with it's lights off, and a Garda standing each side of the road.

When I rocked up he didn't ask any questions about whether I was drinking or anything like that, it was just 'How are you doing, we're carrying out random breath testing today, if you could just blow into this..."

Mind you, they didn't check the windscreen discs at the time or ask for my license or anything like that. He just breathalised me and I went on my merry way. But it was definitely just two normal Gardai with a patrol car.

Victor

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I was breathalysed in, I think Athlone, before. It was a single garda car parked up on the footpath with it's lights off, and a Garda standing each side of the road.

When I rocked up he didn't ask any questions about whether I was drinking or anything like that, it was just 'How are you doing, we're carrying out random breath testing today, if you could just blow into this..."

Mind you, they didn't check the windscreen discs at the time or ask for my license or anything like that. He just breathalised me and I went on my merry way. But it was definitely just two normal Gardai with a patrol car.

Random testing is properly called mandatory testing. It's random insofar as they don't have to have formed a suspicion before testing.

Mervyn Skidmore

Ezequiel Fancy Shrub wrote: »

They don’t ask such a stupid question... If you get pulled over, you get bagged.

That's not always the case. I read about a case in Galway where the guard asked this question without cautioning the person. When the person said they were drinking, he cautioned them and asked the question again. As far as i remember, the judge allowed the case to proceed and the defendant was convicted.

ger664

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I was breathalysed in, I think Athlone, before. It was a single garda car parked up on the footpath with it's lights off, and a Garda standing each side of the road.

When I rocked up he didn't ask any questions about whether I was drinking or anything like that, it was just 'How are you doing, we're carrying out random breath testing today, if you could just blow into this..."

Mind you, they didn't check the windscreen discs at the time or ask for my license or anything like that. He just breathalised me and I went on my merry way. But it was definitely just two normal Gardai with a patrol car.

Has to look for your license before baging you. There are two settings on the roadside tester. one for standard full class B driver and a lower limit if you dont have your license,N/L Plate or professional Driver

Darc19

Bogwoppit wrote: »

I had a pint of Harp in 1992, am I ok to drive?

No. Admitting to drinking harp is enough to warrant a lifetime ban.

Mod
Not so

Darc19

Victor wrote: »

Random testing is properly called mandatory testing. It's random insofar as they don't have to have formed a suspicion before testing.

I think it's random whether you are stopped, but if stopped they mandatory breathalyze you.

emo72

whippet wrote: »

I have been breath tested about 30 times i'd say. The best was three tests on a single 90 min drive home - I was the designated driver after an xmas party.

When I was younger I played football on a sunday morning and never drank on a saturday night but would usually go out - so I was obviously like a red flag in the wee hours with a few lads in the back of a small hatch back.

I did get stopped at a random check point twice in twenty minutes - just after they set up and I was dropping someone in to town .. looked like they were just selecting every 3rd car .. on the back back I was stopped again - told to pull over to where they were doing the tests - Guard asked if I had done one before - I said 'yes - about 20 mins ago' and he laughed when he recognised me, but said I still had to do it as I was selected at random !

Feck me. I'm driving 30 years in Dublin and haven't been stopped once. How random is that?

seamus

McCrack wrote: »

The salmon of all knowledge - is there anything you don't know?

I don't know how to stop pretending I know everything

Claw Hammer

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I was breathalysed in, I think Athlone, before. It was a single garda car parked up on the footpath with it's lights off, and a Garda standing each side of the road.

When I rocked up he didn't ask any questions about whether I was drinking or anything like that, it was just 'How are you doing, we're carrying out random breath testing today, if you could just blow into this..."

Mind you, they didn't check the windscreen discs at the time or ask for my license or anything like that. He just breathalised me and I went on my merry way. But it was definitely just two normal Gardai with a patrol car.

If you had failed the test and were subsequently charged they would have been obliged to show an authorisation for the checkpoint.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Random testing is properly called mandatory testing. It's random insofar as they don't have to have formed a suspicion before testing.

ger664 wrote: »

Has to look for your license before baging you. There are two settings on the roadside tester. one for standard full class B driver and a lower limit if you dont have your license,N/L Plate or professional Driver

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If you had failed the test and were subsequently charged they would have been obliged to show an authorisation for the checkpoint.

I won't argue the rights and wrongs of the checkpoint.


I'm just pointing out that in my real-life experience of being stopped at one, that was how it went down. There was no option to do the breath test or not, they didn't ask if I had been drinking, didn't look for a license, etc. just told me it was breath-testing and had me blow into it.

ger664

Deleted User wrote: »

I won't argue the rights and wrongs of the checkpoint.


I'm just pointing out that in my real-life experience of being stopped at one, that was how it went down. There was no option to do the breath test or not, they didn't ask if I had been drinking, didn't look for a license, etc. just told me it was breath-testing and had me blow into it.

I was bagged last year. Had a pint on me with dinner. Garda asked me for my license which I produced. Passed he then said I looked like someone that had taken a drink. Told him I had one (****ting myself at this point). He said if you didnt have your license I would be bagged at the lower limit and you proabbly would have failed and be going to the station.

There are two different limits for breath. 22mg for Class B Drivers 9 mg for Professional Novice and Learner Permits. They need to see your license to determine which setting to set the tester to. No licences will default to lower setting.

Sac O Spuds

The question they should ask is Have you alcohol consumed.
I know a smart arse who left a pub one night and ran into a checkpoint about 100 yards down the road. 2 Gardai at the checkpoint 1 Male 1female.
Rolled down the window
You just left the pub there.
Yeah
Were you drinking?
I was. I'm there with a few hrs.
I'll have to get you to provide a breath sample so.
Okay so.
Yer man blows into the device. Guard looks at it and says he'll have to do it again. After the second try he says he'll have to return to the station for replacement machine and that the female garda would remain with him at the checkpoint till he returned.
After about 40 mins squad car returned. Got him to blow again. Came up as zero. Got him to blow a second time. Zero again.
How long were you in the pub?
Since about 8.30.
And you've been drinking?
I was yes. Had 2 cokes and 2 Cidonas. You've just wasted the last hour breathalysing a teetotaller after seeing him drive away from a pub because he said he was drinking but you didn't ask what he drank. Goodnight.

killbillvol2

Sac O Spuds wrote: »

The question they should ask is Have you alcohol consumed.
I know a smart arse who left a pub one night and ran into a checkpoint about 100 yards down the road. 2 Gardai at the checkpoint 1 Male 1female.
Rolled down the window
You just left the pub there.
Yeah
Were you drinking?
I was. I'm there with a few hrs.
I'll have to get you to provide a breath sample so.
Okay so.
Yer man blows into the device. Guard looks at it and says he'll have to do it again. After the second try he says he'll have to return to the station for replacement machine and that the female garda would remain with him at the checkpoint till he returned.
After about 40 mins squad car returned. Got him to blow again. Came up as zero. Got him to blow a second time. Zero again.
How long were you in the pub?
Since about 8.30.
And you've been drinking?
I was yes. Had 2 cokes and 2 Cidonas. You've just wasted the last hour breathalysing a teetotaller after seeing him drive away from a pub because he said he was drinking but you didn't ask what he drank. Goodnight.

I'm not sure who's the sadder individual. The idiot who allegedly wasted an hour of his time sitting at a checkpoint or you for posting it.