Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

MickeyLeari

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

A complete lie too

The DPC has had concerns about that Department. https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/dpc-statement-matters-pertaining-public-services-card-0

stargazer 68

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What's the legal ramifications for ignoring it?

None!

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

On liveline there today there was a chap on saying he went to Scotland to see his girlfriend came back a few days later, at the gate on his outbound flight were 2 Gardaí who said they were conducting and immigration check, looked at his passport that was it. 2 weeks later payment stopped. He contacted the department and they were able to tell him the date, time and airline operating the flight he went on and said it was why his payment had stopped.

Potential issues with GDPR there for sure.

You realise that people lie.

Let's examine, Gardai checked his passport and then after that the flight details were suddenly known including his return date.

And these Gardai were checking for immigration but yet it was an outgoing flight. To a common travel area location.

Yes, that all checks out beautifully. I'm off to have tea with Elvis at 2pacs house.

They are alive, I said so.

stargazer 68

stargazer 68 wrote: »

None!

Exactly

Tenzor07

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I wondered why we were so willing to accept the behaviour of the Catholic Church for so long when so much of their preaching on behaviour was so unreasonable.

A big eye opener in recent months is that it is evidently engrained in us - we are following unacceptable rules while those who should be accountable for their actions and inactions are not under scrutiny. There is a sense of a brain washed population with people willing to rat out their neighbours. This is not about wearing of masks and social distancing but The broader sense of controlling the population.

Said before and will Say again - there are many who will decide to get a one way ticket out of this country.

Whatever happened to the “fighting Irish” have we lost all fight and willing to hand over control of our lives to unelected Lords who sleep on the job and get paid €2,000 per week?
What’s happened to this country?
A nation of fearful bed wetters?

MickeyLeari

MickeyLeari wrote: »

The DPC has had concerns about that Department. https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/dpc-statement-matters-pertaining-public-services-card-0

No, that's absolutely nothing to do with the events we are speaking about.

None at all

Van.Bosch

stephenjmcd wrote: »

On liveline there today there was a chap on saying he went to Scotland to see his girlfriend came back a few days later, at the gate were 2 Gardaí who said they were conducting and immigration check, looked at his passport that was it. 2 weeks later payment stopped. He contacted the department and they were able to tell him the date, time and airline operating the flight he went on and said it was why his payment had stopped.

Potential issues with GDPR there for sure.

Should have told them he was in the CTA and didn’t need to show his passport.

stephenjmcd

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You realise that people lie.

Let's examine, Gardai checked his passport and then after that the flight details were suddenly known including his return date.

And these Gardai were checking for immigration but yet it was an outgoing flight. To a common travel area location.

Yes, that all checks out beautifully. I'm off to have tea with Elvis at 2pacs house.

They are alive, I said so.

I'm not saying people don't lie but this isn't the first report of this either.

Where did I say he mentioned a return date ? He returned and 2 weeks later his expected payment didn't arrive.

He used the phrase immigration so that's what I posted. Oh and any garda working on travel within the airports is attached to the immigration units regardless of if they check on the way out or way in.

If a Garda takes your passport number then yes they'll know everything about your flight when they look it up. Thats fairly basic in regards to your smart arss reply. Passport number gives all the info they need, name, address, DOB, travel record etc

Common travel area doesn't matter at the moment if its regarded as a non essential trip.

Like i said yes people can lie but this isn't the first report of this happening.

Enjoy hanging out with elvis and 2pac

MickeyLeari

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No, that's absolutely nothing to do with the car we are speaking about.

None at all

Did I say it was?

stephenjmcd

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Should have told them he was in the CTA and didn’t need to show his passport.

Doesn't matter. Non essential journey still require photo ID for CTA. For Ryanair you require a passport

bladespin

thelad95 wrote: »

If it was a condition of the emergency Covid payment that you stay in the country then so be it. Don't forget this is a global health emergency.

Was this specifically mentioned in the conditions though?

stephenjmcd

thelad95 wrote: »

I cannot put into words how untrue this story is.

Firstly, immigration is largely done by civilian staff not Gardaí.

Secondly Gardaí don't even have remit over the airport on a day to day basis, we have a specific airport police, affiliated to but not under the Garda Siochana umbrella.

Thirdly, people like to stir up conversation on chat shows like this by telling exaggerated truths.

If it was a condition of the emergency Covid payment that you stay in the country then so be it. Don't forget this is a global health emergency.

You quite clearly have no idea what your on about.

Firstly inbound immigration is largely conducted by the immigration service yes, it was handed over from Gardai.

Secondly Airport police are not affiliated to Gardai in any way, Airport police don't have any power of investigation and must hand over anyone arrested on airport grounds to Gardai. Gardai do have remit over the Airport, they can enter it with full power at any time and have a station located on airport grounds which houses a number of officers attached to the immigation units alongside regular repsonse units. Immigration officers can conduct checks on both inbound and outbound flights.

You should do some research before coming on saying Gardai have no remit on airports.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'm not saying people don't lie but this isn't the first report of this either.

Where did I say he mentioned a return date ? He returned and 2 weeks later his expected payment didn't arrive.

He used the phrase immigration so that's what I posted. Oh and any garda working on travel within the airports is attached to the immigration units regardless of if they check on the way out or way in.

If a Garda takes your passport number then yes they'll know everything about your flight when they look it up. Thats fairly basic in regards to your smart arss reply. Passport number gives all the info they need, name, address, DOB, travel record etc

Common travel area doesn't matter at the moment if its regarded as a non essential trip.

Like i said yes people can lie but this isn't the first report of this happening.

Enjoy hanging out with elvis and 2pac

So much wrong

First up, to be an immigration officer you must be declared an immigration officer. There's plenty of Gardai in the airport that are not.

B, Passport number gives Gardai **** all on its own and they have no reason to contact the airlines for his travel details. Gardai don't even have access to the passport database.

C, Common travel area doesn't apply. I must have missed the new law that changed that and closed the border with the north.

For good measure, show me Garda powers regarding non essential travel.

Or

You could read where I already pointed out the passenger information unit which is in Dublin airport and how all this cross agency stuff happens.

I'm going to edit this just to clarify one point from your above comment, the airport Garda station has a full compliment of uniform response Gardai

stephenjmcd

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So much wrong

First up, to be an immigration officer you must be declared an immigration officer. There's plenty of Gardai in the airport that are not.

B, Passport number gives Gardai **** all on its own and they have no reason to contact the airlines for his travel details. Gardai don't even have access to the passport database.

C, Common travel area doesn't apply. I must have missed the new law that changed that and closed the border with the north.

For good measure, show me Garda powers regarding non essential travel.

A) Yes to be an immigration Gardai you must be attached to the immigration unit. This unit is a plain clothes unit. I've just relistend to liveline and the caller said they declared themselves as Garda immigration officers.

Passport number contains all of your details and can be checked at any time if the relevant department is contacted(Have confirmed this with a Garda)

C) Common travel area to SCOTLAND where this person said they were going isnt on green list. Therefore no non essential travel. So in this case the person correctly had their payment stopped as the trip was non essential as per guidelines. Wouldn't matter if they were going to Scotland in the CTA or Spain, same outcome for a non essential trip while claiming PUP.

Thats exactly the point there isn't any powers regarding it which is why its being questioned.

And yes as per your edited post the Airport Garda station has both uniformed and plain clothes Gardai with a number of officers stationed there attached to immigation units.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A) Yes to be an immigration Gardai you must be attached to the immigration unit. This unit is a plain clothes unit. I've just relistend to liveline and the caller said they declared themselves as Garda immigration officers.

Passport number contains all of your details and can be checked at any time.

C) Common travel area to SCOTLAND where this person said they were going isnt on green list. Therefore no non essential travel. So in this case the person correctly had their payment stopped as the trip was non essential as per guidelines. Wouldn't matter if they were going to Scotland in the CTA or Spain, same outcome for a non essential trip while claiming PUP

A, I'm well aware and thanks for clarifying that not all Gardai in the airport are immigration officers. We are in agreement now.

B, not to Gardai. Gardai have PULSE and that is not attached to the passport office. Great idea though

C, that's fine. My point is that the Gardai had sweet fa to do with it

stephenjmcd

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

A, I'm well aware and thanks for clarifying that not all Gardai in the airport are immigration officers. We are in agreement now.

B, not to Gardai. Gardai have PULSE and that is not attached to the passport office. Great idea though

C, that's fine. My point is that the Gardai had sweet fa to do with it

Yes of course not all officers are attached to immigration another poster was saying Gardai had no power in the Airports so I was addressing that.

Well aware it can't be checked on pulse, social welfare checks can be conducted with the dept of social protection. There are many multi agency operations on this. Some COVID checkpoints had Gardai and officials from Dept of social protection & revenue.

Can only give the example that was given today but its not the first time in the last few weeks that its been reported that there are random checks on departures so it appears to be happening every now and then

MickeyLeari

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes of course not all officers are attached to immigration another poster was saying Gardai had no power in the Airports so I was addressing that.

Well aware it can't be checked on pulse, social welfare checks can be conducted with the dept of social protection. There are many multi agency operations on this. Some COVID checkpoints had Gardai and officials from Dept of social protection & revenue.

Can only give the example that was given today but its not the first time in the last few weeks that its been reported that there are random checks on departures so it appears to be happening every now and then

Yes. Reports on here 3 weeks ago.

I don’t have a major issue with the substance (although bear in mind the Govt closed many of those workplaces) but I think we are sleep walking ourselves into a whole host of rights and data issues if there is not the statutory basis and communication.

stephenjmcd

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Yes. Reports on here 3 weeks ago.

I don’t have a major issue with the substance (although bear in mind the Govt closed many of those workplaces) but I think we are sleep walking ourselves into a whole host of rights and data issues if there is not the statutory basis and communication.

I've no issue with someone getting their payment stopped. Its a standard social welfare practise as far as i know.

But yes there does appear to be a whole lot of questions surrounding data and how its being used.

Limpy

Isn't the covid payment paid to people who were working Only. Its that or they would be getting JB due to stamps paid. Seems like a petty thing to do. IF working people had planned and saved for a holiday, get laid off and the only thing they were looking forward to costs them money if they stay or go. I don't support it.

gral6

Can you refuse to show your passport at the airport to social services people? Sure you should give it to Gards

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes of course not all officers are attached to immigration another poster was saying Gardai had no power in the Airports so I was addressing that.

Well aware it can't be checked on pulse, social welfare checks can be conducted with the dept of social protection. There are many multi agency operations on this. Some COVID checkpoints had Gardai and officials from Dept of social protection & revenue.

Can only give the example that was given today but its not the first time in the last few weeks that its been reported that there are random checks on departures so it appears to be happening every now and then

But the department of social protection also knows nothing about your passport or travel.

That's the key point I'm making here. Your passport number means nothing to the Gardai or welfare or even revenue. Yes they can talk to each other, for certain matters.

Gardai can access your info from other galleries with just cause in writing. Revenue can and so can social, with just cause and in writing.

There just be way that a simple passport glance resulted in all this information magically making its way to the social. Absolutely not from Gardai.

The report 3 weeks ago, that guy was caught out completely lying about the entire thing. It was a mythical event and the people he referred to are daa staff. Nothing to do with Gardai, revenue or social. He even lied about his own job.

gral6

gral6 wrote: »

Can you refuse to show your passport at the airport to social services people? Sure you should give it to Gards

Good question. I don't know but I would hazard a guess that you can. I mean, you might not even be claiming anything.

Please;
Garda, Gardai

Guard, Guards

Stick to one language please

Spanish Eyes

Maybe that caller to Liveline had more strings to his bow than a trip to Glasgow. He bought a house there and him on the PUP or Dole or whatever it is called, that I am paying for etc.

The howls of indignation are making me smile now. This country looked after people very well during the worst of the Covid issue, paid for by those who were still working and contributing. And I was very happy to do so, it was great that no one had to Queue and make a claim and be interrogated or humiliated, it was just given out.

Now of course it's a different story, and I have no sympathy whatsoever. A holiday this year should be spent at home, that means that no entitlements will be cut off. So what's the problem? Keep the money here and keep the virus out it's a no brainer.

MickeyLeari

I wonder what the Acting CMO thinks of this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/bavaria-rolls-out-coronavirus-mass-testing-for-returning-holidaymakers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The testing is from red zones.

Assetbacked

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I wonder what the Acting CMO thinks of this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/bavaria-rolls-out-coronavirus-mass-testing-for-returning-holidaymakers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The testing is from red zones.

According to the government we are part of the EU and you can't stop people coming in to the country so testing at the borders wouldn't achieve a whole lot.

Limpy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Maybe that caller to Liveline had more strings to his bow than a trip to Glasgow. He bought a house there and him on the PUP or Dole or whatever it is called, that I am paying for etc.

The howls of indignation are making me smile now. This country looked after people very well during the worst of the Covid issue, paid for by those who were still working and contributing. And I was very happy to do so, it was great that no one had to Queue and make a claim and be interrogated or humiliated, it was just given out.

Now of course it's a different story, and I have no sympathy whatsoever. A holiday this year should be spent at home, that means that no entitlements will be cut off. So what's the problem? Keep the money here and keep the virus out it's a no brainer.

Many families have a holidays worth a few thousand, with no refund options. So your happy to see ordinary hard working people lose that as well as their jobs? Sad.

bladespin

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Keep the money here and keep the virus out it's a no brainer.

Eh, it's already here, has been a while, will be for a long time too, a holiday won't change that.

carveone

Limpy wrote: »

Isn't the covid payment paid to people who were working Only. Its that or they would be getting JB due to stamps paid. Seems like a petty thing to do. IF working people had planned and saved for a holiday, get laid off and the only thing they were looking forward to costs them money if they stay or go. I don't support it.

If you are JB (or JA as well) you are entitled to 2 weeks in any year for a holiday. You are supposed to inform the welfare office. And those are the rules.

Except Heather Humphreys changed the rules two weeks ago stating that the holiday must be "in accordance with the Covid-19 General Travel Advisory in operation by the Department of Foreign Affairs".

Did they tell anyone? I didn't hear about this. If people had formed a legitimate expectation they could travel without their payment being impacted then the whole thing is subject to challenge.

And then Varadkar said on Sunday that those on JA are allowed take 2 weeks. And then Humphreys said holiday periods for Jobseeker’s payments have been suspended. He also said the DSP gets information from the airports. Which isn't true. From the IT - the Gardai simply asked people for their information and people complied, not realising they didn't have to.

The point of this post isn't to say it's fair or not or saying you shouldn't travel or not. It's to say that the government is up its own arse yet again...

gral6

Cabinet members to take 10% pay cut.
What a ****... joke this government are!

carveone

If it was a condition of the emergency Covid payment that you stay in the country then so be it. Don't forget this is a global health emergency.

bladespin wrote: »

Was this specifically mentioned in the conditions though?

No it wasn't, at least yesterday it wasn't. It looks like it changed in the last few hours (https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/) to add the requirement for "genuinely seeking work".

Except. You can legally ignore that because this is the official page: https://www.gov.ie/ga/seirbhis/a982af-none/

Yes, that's the Irish language version of the page and therefore the official one. It doesn't have the requirement therefore it doesn't exist.