Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

KindOfIrish

thelad95 wrote: »

As many may remember, I spoke out on this thread a few days ago with extreme skepticism that there was Gardaí checking passports in the airport and obviously tracking down welfare records based on that information.

Now that the above has been proven true, I'm genuinely shocked and appalled that our country has come to this. This is an absolutely disgusting underhanded measure, people were not warned that this could happen, I don't ever recall it being an explicit condition that you had to remain on the island to receive the PUP. Now the government has come out and said you have to be seeking work. This makes no sense, the PUP was introduced as people could not work.

Many are still waiting for the workplace to re-open as I said previously if they have previously booked and paid for a holiday they have every right to go as THE BORDERS HAVE NEVER BEEN CLOSED.

Either the borders are open and people can come and go as they please or they are not. Any advisory from the DFA is just that, an advisory.

There is also serious serious questions to be answered still on how information is being linked. Even Gardaí can't just go sniffing into welfare records unless they have a good reason to do so. A quick glance at a passport without any inquiry as to why they are traveling is not a good reason. This is a scandal waiting to happen.

There won't be any scandal. Scandals have to be started by someone. We don't have political opposition, we don't have independent media, I have big question about Irish judiciary at this time. About 80% of population are brainwashed with no chance for recovery. There won't be a scandal. Sorry.

bodhrandude

Ryanair demands green list to be expanded or they will move their business to another country. Irish Post.

acequion

KindOfIrish wrote: »

There won't be any scandal. Scandals have to be started by someone. We don't have political opposition, we don't have independent media, I have big question about Irish judiciary at this time. About 80% of population are brainwashed with no chance for recovery. There won't be a scandal. Sorry.

You're so right and it's extremely worrying. And the population are indeed so brainwashed and acquiescent which is probably the scariest bit. If I had a cent for the amount of acquaintances who've stated to me along the lines of "No Spain this year" " You're not going away this year," always a statement, never a question. And the astonishment when I calmly answer that yes I've been to Spain and going again in August and that actually it's a much safer experience than I'll have in September, when as a teacher, I'll be in classroom with 24 almost adult kids. But that risk is considered ok.

And before the holier than thou brigade here descend on me,relax because I'll have done my 14 days isolation first.

kingkoala

Hi all,

I try to understand every opinion on travel, yet there are issues i still do not understand,

First, cutting PuP and welfare payments for people who travel; I am simply horrified by this. This is not OK in any circumstance, and should not be. (Glad gov. take steps back on this issue)
Second, in any evidence, opening schools has more effects on Pandemic than travel. You can check on Israel for the effects of opening schools.
Third, we are living on a globe and there are people whose parents are abroad, been sick, need help, etc.
Last but not least, Average cost of holiday is lower abroad.

I still think that we should not travel for holiday purposes, but I understand and sympathize who does.

For us: We are not on any welfare payments (not that it matters in my opinion), families live on non green list country, they have been sick at the beginning of pandemic back in March, they are ok now, and understandably, my spouse is dying to see them, and we waited till it is relatively safe to travel. Finally, Thursday, we booked our flight for Saturday as I think this is an essential travel and planned the return (14 days of restricting movements, etc)

The thing is, we are in the middle of buying a house and literally afraid, if we go abroad to visit our families just for 12 days, they may cut our HTB. So, it is not the action of the gov. or even been talked about yet, but the idea is literally killing us.

So, should we go or should we stay?

Plumbthedepths

If you are looking for advice asking randomers on the net is not the best thing to do imho. Contact someone in a government department that deals with HTB or citizens advice.
Here you will be told go and say nothing or stay and don't kill granny.

kingkoala

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you are looking for advice asking randomers on the net is not the best thing to do imho. Contact someone in a government department that deals with HTB or citizens advice.
Here you will be told go and say nothing or stay and don't kill granny.

Talked with citiziens.ie, and told HTB is not effected (as now).

acequion

kingkoala wrote: »

Hi all,

I try to understand every opinion on travel, yet there are issues i still do not understand,

First, cutting PuP and welfare payments for people who travel; I am simply horrified by this. This is not OK in any circumstance, and should not be. (Glad gov. take steps back on this issue)
Second, in any evidence, opening schools has more effects on Pandemic than travel. You can check on Israel for the effects of opening schools.
Third, we are living on a globe and there are people whose parents are abroad, been sick, need help, etc.
Last but not least, Average cost of holiday is lower abroad.

I still think that we should not travel for holiday purposes, but I understand and sympathize who does.

For us: We are not on any welfare payments (not that it matters in my opinion), families live on non green list country, they have been sick at the beginning of pandemic back in March, they are ok now, and understandably, my spouse is dying to see them, and we waited till it is relatively safe to travel. Finally, Thursday, we booked our flight for Saturday as I think this is an essential travel and planned the return (14 days of restricting movements, etc)

The thing is, we are in the middle of buying a house and literally afraid, if we go abroad to visit our families just for 12 days, they may cut our HTB. So, it is not the action of the gov. or even been talked about yet, but the idea is literally killing us.

So, should we go or should we stay?

Only you can make that decision and the only "should" I use is that you should not let others influence your decision.

That's why I highlighted that part of your post. I think the "we" you refer to is yourselves and that's fair enough and that's your opinion. The big problem is the amount of people going around using the "should" word and pontificating to others about what they "should" and "shouldn't" do.

Not one person has the right to tell you whether you "should" or "should not" travel. Not one! Ok apart from the Govt who are elected to give advice and let them do that. But you are not obliged to take it. Just as nobody has to right to tell you that you should or shouldn't go shopping, or to a restaurant or visit friends or staycation somewhere in Ireland. All movement is risky in a pandemic but the individual decides what movement he or she will undertake and nobody else.The only obligation is to be careful which most people are.

Personally, I don't accept that level of interference in my life.

kingkoala

Thanks acequion, I think we are completely on the same page,

Thinking about facts, advice, etc, I posted my situation, because of the dilemmas I am living through, and trying to understand if i am missing any point. This post does not mean that I will accept interference, or trying to interfere anybody or something like that. Sorry if I offended anybody with the "should", it was not my intent.

The last sentence was the clear dilemma I am going through and actually I am not seeking for advice, to be honest, maybe this post needed to be under mental health and Covid 19

Neyite

KindOfIrish wrote: »

There won't be any scandal. Scandals have to be started by someone. We don't have political opposition, we don't have independent media, I have big question about Irish judiciary at this time. About 80% of population are brainwashed with no chance for recovery. There won't be a scandal. Sorry.

No, what we need here is a lengthy toothless tribunal with zero powers to investigate it fully that runs for several years before eventually concluding that mistakes were made however due to legislation they can't actually hold anyone accountable for it.

That will sort it I'm sure.

T.V Eye

thelad95 wrote: »

Even Gardaí can't just go sniffing into welfare records unless they have a good reason to do so. A quick glance at a passport without any inquiry as to why they are traveling is not a good reason. This is a scandal waiting to happen.

Can somebody in the know confirm if a Gardaí can even ask you for ID?
Only time I've been asked was as a teenager drinking cans...

I've read up on the Citizens Advice website and the wording implies they can only do this if they believe you've committed an offence.

Do they have additional powers in an Airport due to immigration concerns?

Oranage2

T.V Eye wrote: »

Can somebody in the know confirm if a Gardaí can even ask you for ID?
Only time I've been asked was as a teenager drinking cans...

I've read up on the Citizens Advice website and the wording implies they can only do this if they believe you've committed an offence.

Do they have additional powers in an Airport due to immigration concerns?

They basically can with the misuse of drugs act. They can suspect you of having drugs and search you as well as Id you

FutureTeashock

acequion wrote: »

You're so right and it's extremely worrying. And the population are indeed so brainwashed and acquiescent which is probably the scariest bit. If I had a cent for the amount of acquaintances who've stated to me along the lines of "No Spain this year" " You're not going away this year," always a statement, never a question. And the astonishment when I calmly answer that yes I've been to Spain and going again in August and that actually it's a much safer experience than I'll have in September, when as a teacher, I'll be in classroom with 24 almost adult kids. But that risk is considered ok.

And before the holier than thou brigade here descend on me,relax because I'll have done my 14 days isolation first.

Do you mean the 14 days isolation that you're not required to do by any law?

That's quite a hefty punishment you're inflicting on yourself.:eek:

gral6

I wonder if MM and his advisors were asked their passports at Dublin airport by friendly social service lads while travelling to Brussels last Friday and if they are still doing self-isolation, following public health advise.

MickeyLeari

thelad95 wrote: »

As many may remember, I spoke out on this thread a few days ago with extreme skepticism that there was Gardaí checking passports in the airport and obviously tracking down welfare records based on that information.

Now that the above has been proven true, I'm genuinely shocked and appalled that our country has come to this. This is an absolutely disgusting underhanded measure, people were not warned that this could happen, I don't ever recall it being an explicit condition that you had to remain on the island to receive the PUP. Now the government has come out and said you have to be seeking work. This makes no sense, the PUP was introduced as people could not work.

Many are still waiting for the workplace to re-open as I said previously if they have previously booked and paid for a holiday they have every right to go as THE BORDERS HAVE NEVER BEEN CLOSED.

Either the borders are open and people can come and go as they please or they are not. Any advisory from the DFA is just that, an advisory.

There is also serious serious questions to be answered still on how information is being linked. Even Gardaí can't just go sniffing into welfare records unless they have a good reason to do so. A quick glance at a passport without any inquiry as to why they are traveling is not a good reason. This is a scandal waiting to happen.

Fair play. Over recent months the activity of our Governments has taken a worrying direction. They did well until the typo with Ikea but has been pretty poor since then.

acequion

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Do you mean the 14 days isolation that you're not required to do by any law?

That's quite a hefty punishment you're inflicting on yourself.:eek:

Oh get over yourself will you! :rolleyes: If you actually read the posts and got familiar with the posters rather than spewing out the same stuff like a broken record you would see that I make my own decisions and do what I think is right.

Many people veer to extremes. The bossed and bullied brigade who would hang off a tree if the Govt asked them too. And the other extreme, like yourself, who are just as intransigent in being different to the Govt and just as bullying.

Balance and respect for people's autonomy are so badly lacking and so very evident in this pandemic, most unfortunately.

FutureTeashock

acequion wrote: »

Oh get over yourself will you! :rolleyes: If you actually read the posts and got familiar with the posters rather than spewing out the same stuff like a broken record you would see that I make my own decisions and do what I think is right.

Many people veer to extremes. The bossed and bullied brigade who would hang off a tree if the Govt asked them too. And the other extreme, like yourself, who are just as intransigent in being different to the Govt and just as bullying.

Balance and respect for people's autonomy are so badly lacking and so very evident in this pandemic, most unfortunately.

I'm not bullying anyone in the slightest. If people choose to lock themselves away for two weeks, then go ahead.

My goal is to remind people who may not be aware, that there is no law requiring them to do so.

If that upsets you, then tough titty.

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you are looking for advice asking randomers on the net is not the best thing to do imho.

Totally agree with Plumb and here is the proof:

Post #3111 of this thread

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Haven't holidayed in Ireland since 1996, hospitality sector in Ireland is a complete ripoff.

Post #467 of the Staycation Ireland.. Anyone doing it thread

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Holidayed in Kerry in 1997 , never had a staycation since.

Yep never trust randomers :D

acequion

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I'm not bullying anyone in the slightest. If people choose to lock themselves away for two weeks, then go ahead.

My goal is to remind people who may not be aware, that there is no law requiring them to do so.

If that upsets you, then tough titty.

Gas how bullies will always innocently proclaim that "I'm not bullying anyone in the slightest" while they continue doing exactly that.

You've been bullying and pissing people off on this thread for some time now because you are so annoying with your broken record routine.

Do you seriously think you're providing us all with an information service and telling us something we don't know with your "My goal is" malarky!! As I said already you seriously need to get over yourself! :rolleyes:

The whole idea of isolation /restriction of movements and what exactly people are doing and how long for would make an interesting thread but it's not something I'd bother to discuss with the intransigent.

But one thing I will say is this. I might be almost certain coming back from my own place in Spain that I haven't caught anything. But it's not only about me and I'm not fully certain. This disease is contagious. Therefore unless I'm a complete asshole the least I can do is stay away from people for at least 5-6 days and longer if being near me might make people uncomfortable.

bladespin

For all those who love saying it's a slap in the face for the front line etc etc, I just got off the phone with one, who just landed in Malta for a fortnight's hols, said she's ok with you taking a hol anyway, just be careful.

gral6

bladespin wrote: »

For all those who love saying it's a slap in the face for the front line etc etc, I just got off the phone with one, who just landed in Malta for a fortnight's hols, said she's ok with you taking a hol anyway, just be careful.

Glad for her ! Well deserved it !

MickeyLeari

bladespin wrote: »

For all those who love saying it's a slap in the face for the front line etc etc, I just got off the phone with one, who just landed in Malta for a fortnight's hols, said she's ok with you taking a hol anyway, just be careful.

She and all the front liners deserve a break. A break is not the west of Ireland or Mullingar for 2 weeks. It is about safe behaviour and avoiding risk.

Risk is not an isolated beach where there are very few cases.

Risk is any packed indoor place.

FutureTeashock

MickeyLeari wrote: »

She and all the front liners deserve a break. A break is not the west of Ireland or Mullingar for 2 weeks. It is about safe behaviour and avoiding risk.

Risk is not an isolated beach where there are very few cases.

Risk is any packed indoor place.

Everyone deserves a break. To suggest some are allowed to holiday but others aren't is absurd.

caveat emptor

MickeyLeari wrote: »

She and all the front liners deserve a break. A break is not the west of Ireland or Mullingar for 2 weeks. It is about safe behaviour and avoiding risk.

Risk is not an isolated beach where there are very few cases.

Risk is any packed indoor place.

Not including a plane because while we know that the disease is primarily spread through droplets some airborne transmission can occur but the planes have hospital air filters so it's grand if you wear a mask, just don't take it off or you might die.

Enjoy!

Excuse me while I take a breath.

FutureTeashock

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not including a plane because while we know that the disease is primarily spread through droplets some airborne transmission can occur but the planes have hospital air filters so it's grand if you wear a mask, just don't take it off or you might die.

Enjoy!

Excuse me while I take a breath.

I didn't wear a mask whilst on the plane for a number of hours and I miraculously survived.

How lucky I was!

caveat emptor

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I didn't wear a mask whilst on the plane for a number of hours and I miraculously survived.

How lucky I was!

Congratulations! welcome to the winner's circle.
Luckily you didn't die.

Step right up
Step right up

Get your flights only 10euro each way.
You too could be a winner!

faceman

bladespin wrote: »

For all those who love saying it's a slap in the face for the front line etc etc, I just got off the phone with one, who just landed in Malta for a fortnight's hols, said she's ok with you taking a hol anyway, just be careful.

Likewise here. I’ve bumped in to people from the front line on jollies who worryingly said they’re keeping it quiet etc

caveat emptor

faceman wrote: »

Likewise here. I’ve bumped in to people from the front line on jollies who worryingly said they’re keeping it quiet etc

Hope you told them to not do that (bump into you) again and maintain social distancing at all times.

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

Totally agree with Plumb and here is the proof:

Post #3111 of this thread

Post #467 of the Staycation Ireland.. Anyone doing it thread

Yep never trust randomers :D

I see your ability to read hasn't improved , none of the posts of mine you quoted offer advice, other than prehaps don't look for advice off randomers on the net. Only my own personal opinion and experience.
5/10 must try harder. ;-)

faceman

caveat emptor wrote: »

Hope you told them to not do that (bump into you) again and maintain social distancing at all times.

Hahahahahahaha

I leave the moral policing to countries like Iran.

The social distancing is enforced here anyway. If I want to take a pee in a restaurant or bar I have to pop my mask back on. No messing about here. Proper order.

alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see your ability to read hasn't improved , none of the posts of mine you quoted offer advice, other than prehaps don't look for advice off randomers on the net. Only my own personal opinion and experience.
5/10 must try harder. ;-)

You actually offer advice not to travel in Ireland as staycation is a rip off based on your last trip in 1996, or 1997...maybe 2019 who knows at this stage .