Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

Few things. Nice blame game.

• So you blame people who work in the hospital for getting it? Maybe they didn't know what it was. i.e a biosafety level 4 novel pathogen that is airborne.
  
• Tourism while important accounts for 6% of GDP here.
  
• Irelands tourism is 3 times larger on a visitor basis. But it is equivalent on a visitor night basis (number of visitors X number of nights)
  
• In terms of who picks up the tab. Ryanair got 700 million pounds from UK government with no strings attached. They probably used it to buy back there own shares and enrich themselves further.
  
• Cost of borrowing at negative yields from the ECB costs less than nothing. i.e @ -0.5% if you borrow a billion you get 5 million a year instead of having to pay it.
  
• The cost of servicing our national debt has decreased every single year since 2012 as negative rates allow us to refinance and avail of free money (the %M in the above example)
  

I've never seen so many weak arguments in my life.

Hi I asked you already so I'll try again. You claimed when schools open the country will shut down. How have Norway ( on our green list ) managed to open its schools and the country is open. Similarly many other European countries have opened schools.
What makes Ireland special?
Although just on the tourism thingy 200,000+ people rely on the hospitality sector for their income. Circa 10% of the workforce.

Feria40

caveat emptor wrote: »

Few things. Nice blame game.

• So you blame people who work in the hospital for getting it? Maybe they didn't know what it was. i.e a biosafety level 4 novel pathogen that is airborne.
  
• Tourism while important accounts for 6% of GDP here.
  
• Irelands tourism is 3 times larger on a visitor basis. But it is equivalent on a visitor night basis (number of visitors X number of nights)
  
• In terms of who picks up the tab. Ryanair got 700 million pounds from UK government with no strings attached. They probably used it to buy back there own shares and enrich themselves further.
  
• Cost of borrowing at negative yields from the ECB costs less than nothing. i.e @ -0.5% if you borrow a billion you get 5 million a year instead of having to pay it.
  
• The cost of servicing our national debt has decreased every single year since 2012 as negative rates allow us to refinance and avail of free money (the %M in the above example)
  

I've never seen so many weak arguments in my life.

https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-730-million-loan/

Sorry I must have missed the part where I blamed health care workers for getting sick. Of course many of those that did get sick caught it in the early stage of the pandemic when this virus was making its way around nursing homes especially and before we knew it, it was too late and the damage was done

Would be interesting to know the % of health care staff as a % daily cases in recent times

Super we can borrow and borrow for infinity so.

Inward tourism to Ireland generated € 5.8 billion in 2019 but thankfully we can just keep borrowing anyway. So that's no Biggie.

You seem as good as me on the auld Google so might look up the number for new Zealand

I guess the unemployed folk and business owners who go bust will be happy out to take their €200 (cos the pup ain't stayin) for ever

caveat emptor

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Hi I asked you already so I'll try again. You claimed when schools open the country will shut down. How have Norway ( on our green list ) managed to open its schools and the country is open. Similarly many other European countries have opened schools.
What makes Ireland special?
Although just on the tourism thingy 200,000+ people rely on the hospitality sector for their income. Circa 10% of the workforce.

two things

• pupils per class
• physical size of class rooms
• community spread

oh and....
Norway must keep strict border controls to avoid new infections: PM


Most non-residents, including tourists, are still not allowed into the country, though those who work in sectors deemed crucial, such as agriculture or oil, and those who can prove a family link with Norway can come. They must undergo a 10-day quarantine.


They only reopen on July 10th

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/07/10/norway-updates-travel-guidance-opens-to-most-european-countries/#1e22874a3f60

Feria40

caveat emptor wrote: »

Few things. Nice blame game.

• So you blame people who work in the hospital for getting it? Maybe they didn't know what it was. i.e a biosafety level 4 novel pathogen that is airborne.
  
• Tourism while important accounts for 6% of GDP here.
  
• Irelands tourism is 3 times larger on a visitor basis. But it is equivalent on a visitor night basis (number of visitors X number of nights)
  
• In terms of who picks up the tab. Ryanair got 700 million pounds from UK government with no strings attached. They probably used it to buy back there own shares and enrich themselves further.
  
• Cost of borrowing at negative yields from the ECB costs less than nothing. i.e @ -0.5% if you borrow a billion you get 5 million a year instead of having to pay it.
  
• The cost of servicing our national debt has decreased every single year since 2012 as negative rates allow us to refinance and avail of free money (the %M in the above example)
  

I've never seen so many weak arguments in my life.

• 600 million sterling
• https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-730-million-loan/
  
• tourism 6% GDP
• https://knoema.com/atlas/Ireland/topics/Tourism/Travel-and-Tourism-Total-Contribution-to-GDP/Contribution-of-travel-and-tourism-to-GDP-percent-of-GDP
  
• Cost of debt servicing revised lower every year
• https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/parliamentaryBudgetOffice/2020/2020-04-21_national-debt-an-overview_en.pdf

Our economy is arguably much stronger.....certainly on an export basis. (where it counts)

Yes I see you have missed all the leprechaun economics new and attention of recent years. Our GDP is pretty much make believe.

You see our GDP is driven by US multinationals who send all their Mila out of here.

Unfortunately the fact that the US economy (and some might say society) is tanking will also mean bad news for the thousands employed here in said multinationals.

Now we do have a strong economy or at least we did, I don't argue that.

If this was just something we had to 'stick out' until the end of day 2020 then there would be some logic to your argument.

Unfortunately we and others are going to be in an economic tailspin for several years.

Oh I see you have also mentioned Norway... And it's huge oil reserves and absolutely mentally huge sovereign wealth fund

bladespin

caveat emptor wrote: »

Very negative approach why not think outside the blinkers for a sec.
When schools open we will shut down. Sure as night follows day.

So you're saying now is the time to travel, before the schools open and we all die???

caveat emptor

Feria40 wrote: »

Yes I see you have missed all the leprechaun economics new and attention of recent years. Our GDP is pretty much make believe.

You see our GDP is driven by US multinationals who send all their Mila out of here.

Unfortunately the fact that the US economy (and some might say society) is tanking will also mean bad news for the thousands employed here in said multinationals.

Now we do have a strong economy or at least we did, I don't argue that.

If this was just something we had to 'stick out' until the end of day 2020 then there would be some logic to your argument.

Unfortunately we and others are going to be in an economic tailspin for several years

Sorry I quoted a table on exports. Not on GDP.
I do take your point on GDP being a poor measure.

I'm sorry to say but tourism doesn't work during a pandemic.
end of.

When cases rise so to does the fear of contracting a potentially life changing illness.
You can't make them spend money in the local economy.

The EU is throwing money at Italy in the hope they don't leave.
Those countries are in far worse positions than us.
As terrible as US multinationals are they tend to pay highly skilled people a lot more money than cabin crew.

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

two things

• pupils per class
• physical size of class rooms
• community spread

oh and....
Norway must keep strict border controls to avoid new infections: PM


Most non-residents, including tourists, are still not allowed into the country, though those who work in sectors deemed crucial, such as agriculture or oil, and those who can prove a family link with Norway can come. They must undergo a 10-day quarantine.


They only reopen on July 10th

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/07/10/norway-updates-travel-guidance-opens-to-most-european-countries/#1e22874a3f60

Kindergarten opened since April. Still on our Green list and open to us.
Anyway back on topic, I guess you are not travelling?

caveat emptor

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Kindergarten opened since April. Still on our Green list and open to us.
Anyway back on topic, I guess you are not travelling?

Sorry they may have been on our green list but we sure as fuvck weren't on theirs until 10th of July.

I might.
I'm undecided.
I'm undecided between Scotland or the Lake District.

bladespin

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry they may have been on our green list but we sure as fuvck weren't on theirs until 10th of July.

I might.
I'm undecided.
I'm undecided between Scotland or the Lake District.

Good choices, bring a bike or car, it's a great tour - motorbike country if ever there was.

Feria40

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry I quoted a table on exports. Not on GDP.
I do take your point on GDP being a poor measure.

I'm sorry to say but tourism doesn't work during a pandemic.
end of.

When cases rise so to does the fear of contracting a potentially life changing illness.
You can't make them spend money in the local economy.

The EU is throwing money at Italy in the hope they don't leave.
Those countries are in far worse positions than us.
As terrible as US multinationals are they tend to pay highly skilled people a lot more money than cabin crew.

Forgetting everything else, what I just can't accept ( and maybe it's driven by my own sad life that I need to get away from rain/work on a regular basis!) Is the lack of endgame if we go down the no travel route.

I have hope that a vaccine will actually be developed reasonably quickly. But there is a good chance it will be a seasonal requirement.

Forgetting our own little corner of the world, there are a great many people that for whatever reason won't have access to or refuse to take a vaccine.

Those last 2 paragraphs mean, to my mind , that this could play out for years and years and we need to somehow move on.

We had a very long lock down(but by no means the hardest compared to other countries) I just feel that this time could have been utilised far better in getting the nation prepared for the long term.

Were we not aiming to have capacity to test was it 15,000 people a day? This capacity is not currently needed in the track and trace process so why is there not wholesale random testing happening or why can't we have some type of airport testing ( even if that method is far from fool proof).

Oh and masks, why oh why is the legislation so difficult. God knows there is a enough precedent at this stage. Tongue and cheek but could we not 'copy and paste' from any one of a number of other jurisdictions at this stage!

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry they may have been on our green list but we sure as fuvck weren't on theirs until 10th of July.

I might.
I'm undecided.
I'm undecided between Scotland or the Lake District.

So you are potentially going to head to a country on our do not travel list.
Despite your comments to others. I'm beginning to think you are a WUM that's just my opinion though.

caveat emptor

Feria40 wrote: »

.....
I have hope that a vaccine will actually be developed reasonably quickly. But there is a good chance it will be a seasonal requirement.

.....
Oh and masks, why oh why is the legislation so difficult. God knows there is a enough precedent at this stage. Tongue and cheek but could we not 'copy and paste' from any one of a number of other jurisdictions at this stage!

Totally agree. With everything with this we've looked at the worst case and the best case and planned for something in the middle.

This got us most of the way through it with some very large **** ups.

I'm not interested in shaming anyone going abroad on holiday. Go if you need it. / want it whatever. If I paid for a holiday in January I'd have a different opinion for sure. Chances are you'll be grand. That's not issue nor what I'm worried about.

I'm just thinking how things are gonna go.
The nature of the virus has not changed.
I think the UK and Ireland zero tolerance approach is the only logical approach that would cause the least damage.

I could be wrong of course.
I hope it's contained to low figures.
I just think there is enough of it out there to cause real problems when schools reopen and I'm not alone.

caveat emptor

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you are potentially going to head to a country on our do not travel list.
Despite your comments to others. I'm beginning to think you are a WUM that's just my opinion though.

Sorry Northern Ireland is part of that country. I didn't realise there was a difference. Cases in north of England way too high.
The cases in Scotland are super low compared to here.

I have the ability to self isolate afterwards so why not?

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry Northern Ireland is part of that country. I didn't realise there was a difference. The cases in Scotland are super low compared to here.

I have the ability to self isolate afterwards so why not?

You're going to need a new Sat Nav or update maps if you think the Lake District is in NI or Scotland.
Anyway reinforcing my opinion. Have a good one.

caveat emptor

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You're going to need a new Sat Nav or update maps if you think the Lake District is in NI or Scotland.
Anyway reinforcing my opinion. Have a good one.

No I said Northern Ireland is in the same country.
As is the Lake District.
As is Scotland.

I think you'll find it's still called the United Kingdom of great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is you who needs a sat nave and maybe a history book.

polesheep

yoshimitsu wrote: »

I don’t know for sure as I exited the airport at the opposite end but would expect it to be running. The shuttle bus was stopped as it was a smaller van and impossible to SD.

PisaMover should have more space and is the gateway to Florence which is the real lifeline for Tuscan tourism.

Thanks, just thinking about getting from airport to train station. Enjoy your visit.

MickeyLeari

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

no sane Spaniard is going to Cork :P



Im sceptical to be honest. You are claining flights are full or nearly full but yet not a single person that has actually flown agrees. All personal experiences suggest half capacity at best.

My experience was personal. It was fully booked but about 75% full.

FutureTeashock

Beanybabog wrote: »

What do people think will happen to the green list? Due to go to France in 3 weeks, no point cancelling as we lose all the money but no one feels good about it now

You have every right to go to France. Why would you throw away your money over a fictional green list?

Beanybabog

FutureTeashock wrote: »

You have every right to go to France. Why would you throw away your money over a fictional green list?

Because of peer pressure and guilt. Exactly what the government intended! I won’t throw it away... if I could get a credit note I would be very tempted to do that but at present it’s not an option.

smurfjed

Presently sitting in seat 4C of an A320 aircraft, all passengers had their hands sprayed by crew as they boarded, we were given tissues, sanitiser and a face mask as soon as we sat down.

Crews are wearing masks and full plastic gowns over their uniforms. Business class catering appears to be a doggie bag. Not sure about economy.

This aircraft has real business class seats so all are in use, 5x4. In economy 50% of the seats are blocked off.

FutureTeashock

Beanybabog wrote: »

Because of peer pressure and guilt. Exactly what the government intended! I won’t throw it away... if I could get a credit note I would be very tempted to do that but at present it’s not an option.

Surely people who think like that aren't worth worrying about?

You've already shelled out the money, so the only logical thing to do is go and enjoy your holiday.

MickeyLeari

MickeyLeari wrote: »

My experience was personal. It was fully booked but about 75% full.

yeah, as I said above. I missed the green list part. Had Spain on the brain

completedit

Home 2 weeks from Belgium. Believe it or not, I'm alive.

Plumbthedepths

Surprised RA waited so long, Aer Lingus(IAG) backing the action it seems.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ryanair-sues-taoiseach-and-state-over-travel-restrictions-39413460.html

FutureTeashock

completedit wrote: »

Home 2 weeks from Belgium. Believe it or not, I'm alive.

Very fitting user name.

How's the 14 days quarantine that doesn't exist going?

completedit

Didn't quarantine tbh. Did what I had to do and wore a mask and took precaution. Even went for a couple of pints outside one of the days.

caveat emptor

Feria40 wrote: »

....
Oh I see you have also mentioned Norway... And it's huge oil reserves and absolutely mentally huge sovereign wealth fund

Haha nice taken out of context. I mentioned Norway in relation to a question about how can schools open.

I remarked that I might have something to do with the fact they only start letting in foreign residents. That is of course despite being part of the EEA.

It's amazing that society can get back to normal if we restrict people who don't need to be here.

Let's compare how our schools get on with Norways.

Travel has implications for society and the overall economy in the context of a pandemic.

caveat emptor

completedit wrote: »

Didn't quarantine tbh. Did what I had to do and wore a mask and took precaution. Even went for a couple of pints outside one of the days.

That's cool. Hope you weren't asymptomatic. Your extended community may not thank you for your heroics.
You don't work in a meat packing plant by chance?

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1289219720160219136?s=20

copeyhagen

Beanybabog wrote: »

Because of peer pressure and guilt. Exactly what the government intended! I won’t throw it away... if I could get a credit note I would be very tempted to do that but at present it’s not an option.

we were the same, wife felt guilty until she got to Spain and realised its safer than at home, and the BS being peddled by RTE like beaches cordoned off was exactly that, BS.

The Unbearables

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

out of curiosity, were the 2 on PUP and were they the only 2? As in, were they targeted or random selection do you think?

Completely random I'd say.

One was on PUP and one more in our group also. The Gardai both looked like they could care less and just waved them on as soon as immigration was brought up.

I'm guessing legally they knew it was dodgy ground.