Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

So restrict movement doesn’t equal quarantine. I’m not worried about any of the groups you listed.
Irish citizens who booked holidays in advance as we do are more of a concern. If your choice is to miss out on two grand family holiday you are probably gonna go. If your ‘advised’ to stay home for two weeks ( ‘restrict movement’ ) and miss out on two weeks wages, then you are not really going to do it now are you?
Or rather there enough people in that bracket to cause the whole island a problem.
This is a pandemic, nobody should be going abroad for a holiday. I’d say most wouldn’t but because there are no actual restrictions, they can’t get a refund. It’s a disgrace. Ryanair are a disgrace at this stage.
Their bull**** PR at this stage is comical.

The whole situation that NPHET-FFFG have created is a nightmare for the Aviation/Hospitality sector, they have all but decimated demand and jobs with the rules they make up... They have cost ordinary families lost time and money by not declaring a "No flight" rule.

So direct your anger towards the NPHET-FFFG, not a private company who are acting in accordance with irish law in running the flights even if passengers don't show.
I'm personally owed monday by 3 separate airlines this year for cancellations.

Tenzor07

Someone in the Civil Service isn't happy with NPHET:

Meanwhile, there are serious concerns in Fine Gael over the severity of Covid-19 restrictions being recommended by Nphet.

Cabinet ministers are becoming increasingly frustrated with Nphet advice on the pandemic as they believe it is out of kilter with advice being put forward by public-health experts in other EU countries. Increasing frustration over Covid-19 restrictions is expected to play out when the Cabinet meets today. Fine Gael ministers are expected to push for less restrictive measures despite the increase in new cases.

A Cabinet source said there were concerns at the highest ranks of Cabinet that Nphet had "departed from the European mainstream in the severity of their advice" as they are "under pressure from academic commentators as opposed to solid science".

"Many countries have similar incidence or much higher incidence of Covid to Ireland and have schools open and bars open, international travel within Europe is allowed, as are gatherings of up to 5,000 people," the source said.

josip

This part will ruffle a lot of the egos in NPHET.

...under pressure from academic commentators as opposed to solid science...

But it's an accurate assessment of what's been going on for the past 2 months. Reminds me of:
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice while in practice there is."

josip

josip wrote: »

...........
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice while in practice there is."

A mathematician will deem a battery never fully charged whereas a physicist will :pac:

Gael23

Tenzor07 wrote: »

2021 may see tighter restrictions, the way NPHET-FFFG are talking these days how long before they draft in laws restricting travel unless authorised by them, i.e. having to make an official request on a Govt. website.
Not to mention the fact that the Aviation sector in Ireland has fallen off a cliff, Dublin could in 2021 be the only airport we have in the country, and only with state subsidies keeping the lights on.
Any airlines still operating flights in and out of the state will have to charge a high premium to operate here as no doubt Ryanair will pull their base out of Dublin and Aer Lingus will have been closed down by IAG to keep the likes of BA and Iberia afloat.
There will be no business travel in or out of the country due to the level of restrictions, and with the high cost of flights only the wealthiest of families will be able to afford a flight.

The state cannot let Aer Lingus go under. Australians have to request permission to leave the country but I dont see what the legal basis for. that is once you. hold a valid passport.

Tenzor07

Gael23 wrote: »

The state cannot let Aer Lingus go under.

Yes they can... Why would the state step in and borrow Billions just to keep an International Airlines Group (IAG) company afloat? I don't think Irish taxpayers would be happy to prop up an internationally owned airline..

sioda

Gael23 wrote: »

The state cannot let Aer Lingus go under. Australians have to request permission to leave the country but I dont see what the legal basis for. that is once you. hold a valid passport.

They will the only Irish thing about Aer Lingus at this stage is the shamrock on the tail

Wallander

The small mystery of how Luxembourg got the highest infection rate in Europe and got on all the travel blacklists (including Ireland's of course) appears to have been explained - the just tested loads more people than anywhere else:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/luxembourg-covid-infection-rate-masks-mass-testing-regime-eu-travel-blacklist

MickeyLeari

On RTÉ News - ECDC - travelling across borders is not the cause of the Increases in the 19 way Member States over the last 14 days.

In my view, the obsession with travel and the messaging on this has most likely led to an increase in other areas. This has led to complacency.

MickeyLeari

Wallander wrote: »

The small mystery of how Luxembourg got the highest infection rate in Europe and got on all the travel blacklists (including Ireland's of course) appears to have been explained - the just tested loads more people than anywhere else:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/luxembourg-covid-infection-rate-masks-mass-testing-regime-eu-travel-blacklist

It makes sense. A lot more people have the virus. The ECDC confirmed that increasing in testing strategy has increased the numbers in some countries.

Gael23

So just travel wherever you want and take usual precautions?

Tazz T

sioda wrote: »

They will the only Irish thing about Aer Lingus at this stage is the shamrock on the tail

This. It would actually make more sense for the government to bail out Ryanair, as it is a Irish airline success story.

corny

Gael23 wrote: »

So just travel wherever you want and take usual precautions?

Works for me.

54and56

Gael23 wrote: »

The state cannot let Aer Lingus go under.

Why not? It's a British owned company.

If IAG (owner of BA, Iberia and Aer Lingus) are unable to continue operating and are liquidated someone will pick the assets up cheap and start a new airline.

Even if that doesn't happen if there is unfulfilled demand for flights out of Ireland someone, whether RyanAir or established European based airlines will step in. It's basic supply and demand.

Governments running airlines is a long proven way to burn serious amounts of taxpayer cash - no thanks. Been there done that!!

lainey_d_123

I'm back from my visit to Ireland - some of you may recall I was very anxious about it. Here's a summary of how I found it.

Outward journey (Stansted to Belfast): Generally pretty good, better than expected. Stansted Express very quiet, airport also very quiet, straight through security (which had perspex screens between passengers at the part where you put your stuff into the trays). Plenty of space at the gate for social distancing - I chose to hover rather than sit down to make it easier to move away from anyone who got too close, and boarded at the last possible moment. It was a full flight but most passengers were wearing masks at the gate, and everyone was wearing them on the plane. Very few passengers ordered drinks or food on board and those who did replaced their masks between sips or bites. Overall, I felt safe on the outward journey and it was less stressful than I'd anticipated.

Return journey (Belfast to Stansted): Honestly pretty poor. Security was very quick, but your man working there put his hands all over my stuff in the trays, which is just completely unnecessary - why??! I'd placed it perfectly and he moved it around about a millimetre for no reason. Very little space in the airport, with passengers all crammed into small sections and barely any seating. The gate area was spacious enough but we were called through and then made to wait a good while on the stairs while they prepared the plane - again, poor and thoughtless. It would have been safer to have people well spaced out at the gate than crowded together on the stairs. Quite a few passengers just ripping the p1ss with the mask thing once we got onto the plane - a girl got on clutching a Starbucks with her mask on her chin, and the crew told her to wear it properly, but the moment she sat down (next to me - why do I never have any fcking luck?) , off it came again, and she sat there the entire flight sipping this bloody drink....why bother mandating masks if people can just do that? She was made to put it on again for landing, but again it was straight off her the minute the seatbelt sign went off. Other passengers I saw doing the same, or with their mask not covering their nose, and quite a few with nasty coughs. Then mask usage was only about 50% on the Stansted Express, with a lot of airport/airline staff not bothering at all, and commuters getting on at intermediary stops with no face covering at all. I did not feel at all safe on this journey, at any stage of it. I am legitimately worried that I may have caught something, which I wasn't on the outward leg.

Overall impression - Stansted pretty well organised and dealing with the entire thing very well, Belfast not doing enough, Easyjet's enforcement of the rules around masks is patchy and it also seems to just depend on whether the other passengers on your flight are considerate and conscientious or selfish d1cks.

I had a family obligation to attend to and had considered also heading on holiday, but after the experience of the second flight, I don't think I will. I imagine others would feel OK with this level of risk - it's certainly way better than it was at the start of the pandemic, but to me it just isn't worth it with the number of people who refuse to follow the rules - not just on the plane itself, but the airport transport. The combo of plane and train was pretty stressful and not something I'd want to go through just for a holiday, tbh. I hope to God this is all over sooner rather than later because I love travelling, but for now I think I'll stay close to home.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm back from my visit to Ireland.........

Did you quarantine for 14 days when you arrived here?

facehugger99

Augeo wrote: »

Did you quarantine for 14 days when you arrived here?

Why would you?

There’s no requirement to.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why would you?

There’s no requirement to.

? Because she came via Belfast? That's not at all the spirit of the following......

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ireland

All arrivals from overseas, including Irish residents, are asked to restrict their movement for 14 days on arrival. There are some exemptions, including if you are returning to Ireland from Northern Ireland or from any of the countries that are on the Irish Government’s Green List

Returning to Ireland from Northern Ireland does not apply to folk coming to the ROI via NI from London.

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

Did you quarantine for 14 days when you arrived here?

I didn't even go to the ROI in the end. Stayed with my family in the North.

Tazz T

The strange thing is, the gov didn't update the green list as they were supposed to. If they did the UK would have made it under the guidelines (as would Germany).

More incompetence and confusion. So does the green list just stay the way it is until a roadmap will (or might be) revealed on 13th Sept?

Royale with Cheese

I reckon their plan is to leave the list as it is, say as little as possible about it and hope nobody asks too many questions. The original methodology they used to come up with the list has back fired as Ireland's rising cases means you're more likely to contract the virus here than in many European countries, but they don't want to be adding more countries to the list.

Maybe when they announce their 6-9 month roadmap for covid in September they'll move to a more sensible travel policy, when people may start to realise that living with the virus will be a necessity. The peak holiday season will be over by then too.

DylanJM

Tazz T wrote: »

The strange thing is, the gov didn't update the green list as they were supposed to. If they did the UK would have made it under the guidelines (as would Germany).

More incompetence and confusion. So does the green list just stay the way it is until a roadmap will (or might be) revealed on 13th Sept?

This page was last updated on the 6th so perhaps tomorrow but I think it's unlikely they will expand it.

Tazz T

DylanJM wrote: »

This page was last updated on the 6th so perhaps tomorrow but I think it's unlikely they will expand it.

One of them said last night that there were no plans to update it until the roadmap was announced on 13th. I suspect adding the UK would have made them look a bit silly considering there is no quarantine for people moving to/from the north.

Greece's 14 day rolling average is borderline if not above us now.

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

Did you quarantine for 14 days when you arrived here?

If you even bothered to read this thread on a regular basis you would see that this particular poster has posted a lot about her fears around Covid and her desire for people to be responsible. And if anything,is over cautious. You're just banging on about the quarantine to be a dick! Have you really nothing better to do and do you still not get that it's advisory restriction of movements, not quarantine??

And for all the zealotry around travel, in addition to the general zealotry in Ireland where pubs have remained closed and scores of ordinary Joes shamed and bullied into cancelling a deserved break abroad, we now find ourselves with the fourth highest growth of this thing in Europe!

This country is such a fcuk up! :rolleyes:

acequion

acequion wrote: »

If you even bothered to read this thread on a regular basis you would see that this particular poster has posted a lot about her fears around Covid and her desire for people to be responsible. And if anything,is over cautious. You're just banging on about the quarantine to be a dick! Have you really nothing better to do and do you still not get that it's advisory restriction of movements, not quarantine??.........

I thought she was heading to Dublin tbh.
I wasn't being a d1ck at all

Restricting movements in a quarantine, FFS, you aren't meant to go anywhere.........

The request to restrict your movement means ( https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-from-a-country-that-is-not-on-the-covid-19-travel-advice-list/#restricted-movement ):

do not use public transport if possible. If you have no option but to use public transport, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason
do not visit others
do not meet face-to-face with anyone who is at higher risk from COVID-19
do not go to the shop unless absolutely necessary. If you have no option but to go to the shop, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport (unless you have a reason as listed here)
While you are requested to restrict your movements for 14 days if you arrive into Ireland from another location that is not on the COVID-19 Green List, you do not need to remain in the country for 14 days.

acequion wrote: »

.............. do you still not get that it's advisory restriction of movements, not quarantine??

......

Augeo wrote: »

? Because she came via Belfast? That's not at all the spirit of the following......

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ireland

All arrivals from overseas, including Irish residents, are asked to restrict their movement for 14 days on arrival. There are some exemptions, including if you are returning to Ireland from Northern Ireland or from any of the countries that are on the Irish Government’s Green List

Returning to Ireland from Northern Ireland does not apply to folk coming to the ROI via NI from London.

So, ya know

Wallander

Tazz T wrote: »

One of them said last night that there were no plans to update it until the roadmap was announced on 13th. I suspect adding the UK would have made them look a bit silly considering there is no quarantine for people moving to/from the north.

Greece's 14 day rolling average is borderline if not above us now.

Keeping the status quo is so silly it's disastrous, in my opinion. If you are asking visitors to voluntarily isolate/restrict movements, which is a fairly demanding request, you need some logic and consistent rules behind that request. Quarantining people moving from lower risk areas like UK and Germany to higher risk areas like Ireland currently has zero logic.



Why on earth should someone from the UK and Germany respect our policy when it's so weird?

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

I thought she was heading to Dublin tbh.
I wasn't being a d1ck at all

Restricting movements in a quarantine, FFS, you aren't meant to go anywhere.........

The request to restrict your movement means ( https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-from-a-country-that-is-not-on-the-covid-19-travel-advice-list/#restricted-movement ):

do not use public transport if possible. If you have no option but to use public transport, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason
do not visit others
do not meet face-to-face with anyone who is at higher risk from COVID-19
do not go to the shop unless absolutely necessary. If you have no option but to go to the shop, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport (unless you have a reason as listed here)
While you are requested to restrict your movements for 14 days if you arrive into Ireland from another location that is not on the COVID-19 Green List, you do not need to remain in the country for 14 days.




So, ya know

This bit seems a little silly.

So I can't go to a shop on the other side of the border (not that I did anyway tbh - as someone else noted, I'm very cautious) but I could have flown back from Dublin airport no worries?

acequion

Augeo wrote: »

I thought she was heading to Dublin tbh.
I wasn't being a d1ck at all

Restricting movements in a quarantine, FFS, you aren't meant to go anywhere.........

The request to restrict your movement means ( https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-from-a-country-that-is-not-on-the-covid-19-travel-advice-list/#restricted-movement ):

do not use public transport if possible. If you have no option but to use public transport, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason
do not visit others
do not meet face-to-face with anyone who is at higher risk from COVID-19
do not go to the shop unless absolutely necessary. If you have no option but to go to the shop, you must wear a face covering. The wearing of a face covering is required by law when using public transport (unless you have a reason as listed here)
While you are requested to restrict your movements for 14 days if you arrive into Ireland from another location that is not on the COVID-19 Green List, you do not need to remain in the country for 14 days.




So, ya know

I was right. You really have nothing better to do. Nothing better than copying and pasting Govt publications that as you still don't get, are ADVISORY.

So if people don't want to follow those guidelines they won't. Maybe you blindly follow everything our political overlords dream up but a lot of people don't. They think for themselves. And whether she was was heading for Dublin or Belfast, whether she'll restrict movements or not, it's up to her and none of your business.

So ya I still see your question as just being a dIck.

Limpy

I've a few more holidays booked off in late September. Estonia and Latvia seem to be doing well, I will go there. It's nice and sunny over that part of world at the moment.

Anyone stay in any clean hostels in those countries lately?

VG31

Limpy wrote: »

I've a few more holidays booked off in late September. Estonia and Latvia seem to be doing well, I will go there. It's nice and sunny over that part of world at the moment.

Anyone stay in any clean hostels in those countries lately?

People travelling from Ireland have to self-isolate in Estonia and Latvia now.