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Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]
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Niner leprauchan wrote: »Why do you think the regulations don't apply to the airport and why the airport byelaws don't cover the use of masks?
There are no airport by-laws covering the use of masks. 100% this. End of.
There are also no ‘regulations’ in the legal sense with penalty of fine and/or prison for not complying with the DAA’s request that people wear masks in the public areas.
There are however Industry Guidance or ‘best practices’ that EASA have drawn up and promulgated to airport operators around Europe for them to implement as each operator sees fits.
It just so happens that one of the recommendations is that airport operators advise passengers to wear face coverings when inside their terminals. My point up-thread^^^ was that people allow themselves to understand this as being ‘mandatory’. They then tell their mate on Facebook and they tell the lads down the pub. Now it’s the norm and those who don’t wear a face covering are scowled and brow beaten by the masses in the queue for not having one.
There is absolutely nothing, nothing stopping a passenger walking into a terminal with no face covering. The DAA staff member at the door with the hi-viz and lanyard, looking all official, will try to convince you it’s a ‘legal’ requirement but it’s as legal as saying ‘Your bag has to be blue, new rule’
If you’re referring to the new and well publicised legislation covering shops etc that came into force about 2 weeks ago, S.I. 296/2020-Health Act 1947, that does not apply to airports. That S.I. 296 specifically states what premises it applies to. You can’t just say ‘Well, I’ll enforce it here myself in an airport because it has a roof on it too like a mall’0 -
On the mask wearing abroad, it seems to be near 100% compliance in the places we've all been to, obviously except for eating and drinking.
But what people in Ireland don't get with the whole mandatory mask thing is that in Ireland compared to the other countries you are still so restricted in what you can do. As such, it feels a bit pointless to wear a mask when we still have strict social distancing in shops and on public transport etc. In other countries, it seems as if the governments have opened up pretty much everything as a trade for wearing masks, while Ireland is trying to keep restrictions strict and enforce mask wearing. It's the disrespect to the public from the authorities to the public that I absolutely detest.0 -
There are no airport by-laws covering the use of masks. 100% this. End of.
There are also no ‘regulations’ in the legal sense with penalty of fine and/or prison for not complying with the DAA’s request that people wear masks in the public areas.
There are however Industry Guidance or ‘best practices’ that EASA have drawn up and promulgated to airport operators around Europe for them to implement as each operator sees fits.
It just so happens that one of the recommendations is that airport operators advise passengers to wear face coverings when inside their terminals. My point up-thread^^^ was that people allow themselves to understand this as being ‘mandatory’. They then tell their mate on Facebook and they tell the lads down the pub. Now it’s the norm and those who don’t wear a face covering are scowled and brow beaten by the masses in the queue for not having one.
There is absolutely nothing, nothing stopping a passenger walking into a terminal with no face covering. The DAA staff member at the door with the hi-viz and lanyard, looking all official, will try to convince you it’s a ‘legal’ requirement but it’s as legal as saying ‘Your bag has to be blue, new rule’
If you’re referring to the new and well publicised legislation covering shops etc that came into force about 2 weeks ago, S.I. 296/2020-Health Act 1947, that does not apply to airports. That S.I. 296 specifically states what premises it applies to. You can’t just say ‘Well, I’ll enforce it here myself in an airport because it has a roof on it too like a mall’
Will first off, chill. I'm trying to have a discussion with you.
In regards si296. Do you not consider the airport to be a location that is covered by the definition of “relevant premises” ?
In regards the byelaws of 2014. There's signs up. Legally erected signs and refusing to obey them is covered under Section 26. "failure to observe any sign erected or announcement made or instruction or direction given in relation to the proper management, operation and supervision of an airport"
There's also section 13. "doing, or threatening to do, any act injurious to, or tending to be injurious to, health or to the amenities of an airport;"
I would suggest that covers not wearing a mask against health suggestions and the instructions issued within the airport.
You don't have a blanket right to enter the airport. You can be refused under certain situations afterall.0 -
Assetbacked wrote: »On the mask wearing abroad, it seems to be near 100% compliance in the places we've all been to, obviously except for eating and drinking.
But what people in Ireland don't get with the whole mandatory mask thing is that in Ireland compared to the other countries you are still so restricted in what you can do. As such, it feels a bit pointless to wear a mask when we still have strict social distancing in shops and on public transport etc. In other countries, it seems as if the governments have opened up pretty much everything as a trade for wearing masks, while Ireland is trying to keep restrictions strict and enforce mask wearing. It's the disrespect to the public from the authorities to the public that I absolutely detest.
What strict social distancing do we have? Last time I was on the Luas it was jammed. And there’s no one at the door of my SuperValu any more.
My experience in Italy is that the 100% mask wearing is not part of a strategy that says “if you all mask up we will open everything like normal”. Rather it is the reverse.....that the 100% mask wearing gives everyone the confidence to move around freely without the kind of finger pointing and nervousness that there is here. Counterintuitively the mask wearing there is making people more relaxed, not more tense0 -
Haven't been on since earlier today and wow what a lot of posts!
Has Thelonious Monk figured out how to restrict movements? It's really not a big deal and who'd want to go out in this crap weather anyway!!0 -
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Irish PLF form is online: https://cvd19plf-prod1.powerappsportals.com/en-US/passenger/
I'm sure at the end it must email you a Barcode or something..0 -
Has anyone experienced hotel buffets on recent travels abroad? Breakfast buffets, dinner ones etc
I'd imagine they're breeding grounds for Covid (hands all over the fruit etc) and that sensible hotels have paused them for now0 -
Hotel where I was in Greece still had buffet but it was all behind glass and you pointed to the server as to what you wanted and they put it on the plate for you.
Wasn't great as they heaped everything onto the plate so I often ended up with my fried egg on top of my pancake syrup.0 -
I'm supposed to be restricting my movements till the weekend yes but where could I even go in this miserable weather. Disappointed I didn't stay in Spain for longer tbh.0
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Thelonious Monk wrote: »I'm supposed to be restricting my movements till the weekend yes but where could I even go in this miserable weather. Disappointed I didn't stay in Spain for longer tbh.
Yes we all know you had a great time in Spain :rolleyes:0 -
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Gerry Hatrick wrote: »Yes we all know you had a great time in Spain :rolleyes:
Good. PM me if you want more details on what I got up to, the weather, the food, etc.
About my time abroad. In Spain. In the sun.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »Good. PM me if you want more details on what I got up to, the weather, the food, etc.
About my time abroad. In Spain. In the sun.
Why would i want to know what you got up to?0 -
Hotel where I was in Greece still had buffet but it was all behind glass and you pointed to the server as to what you wanted and they put it on the plate for you.
Wasn't great as they heaped everything onto the plate so I often ended up with my fried egg on top of my pancake syrup.
Was the same in Italy although the staff there were a lot better and put hot/cold items on different plates0 -
Same in Brussels. Ruined the experience.0
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[Deleted User] wrote: »What strict social distancing do we have? Last time I was on the Luas it was jammed. And there’s no one at the door of my SuperValu any more.
My experience in Italy is that the 100% mask wearing is not part of a strategy that says “if you all mask up we will open everything like normal”. Rather it is the reverse.....that the 100% mask wearing gives everyone the confidence to move around freely without the kind of finger pointing and nervousness that there is here. Counterintuitively the mask wearing there is making people more relaxed, not more tense
On social distancing despite masks being mandatory; my Tesco still has queuing if it gets too busy, buses still have those stupid stickers on the seats, in a couple shops I've been in, namely a pharmacy and a chipper, they still stop too many coming inside at the same time.
This is obviously on top of pubs being closed, travel being advised only for essential purposes, sporting events even outdoors not allowed to have any crowds, no parties in your own home above 6 people0 -
Masks do not negate or replace the need for distancing/hand hygiene/respiratory etiquette.Assetbacked wrote: »On social distancing despite masks being mandatory; my Tesco still has queuing if it gets too busy, buses still have those stupid stickers on the seats, in a couple shops I've been in, namely a pharmacy and a chipper, they still stop too many coming inside at the same time.
This is obviously on top of pubs being closed, travel being advised only for essential purposes, sporting events even outdoors not allowed to have any crowds, no parties in your own home above 6 people
However I fear that in a lot of people's heads, as long as they have a mask on (never mind how it's worn), they're invincible and can carry on regardless. Which is a bit scary, tbh.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »I'm supposed to be restricting my movements till the weekend yes but where could I even go in this miserable weather. Disappointed I didn't stay in Spain for longer tbh.
I know exactly how you feel and take no notice of the begrudgers! :rolleyes: People will say that we should shut up and put up now as we did get away but coming from constant blue skies and constant 30C + it really is extremely hard to settle into this car crash weather. So limiting movements actually helps.
But with such a horrendous climate here it really is a tall order to expect people to staycation. Just imagine being in some overpriced hotel today :eek::eek:0 -
I know exactly how you feel and take no notice of the begrudgers! :rolleyes: People will say that we should shut up and put up now as we did get away but coming from constant blue skies and constant 30C + it really is extremely hard to settle into this car crash weather. So limiting movements actually helps.
But with such a horrendous climate here it really is a tall order to expect people to staycation. Just imagine being in some overpriced hotel today :eek::eek:
Some people like the climate here, Stockholm syndrome.0 -
Travelling to Portugal this weekend and I, for one, cannot wait. Some time away in the sun to mentally recharge.0
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Grueller Baby wrote: »Travelling to Portugal this weekend and I, for one, cannot wait. Some time away in the sun to mentally recharge.
Where are you off to?
Both Lisbon and (especially) Porto are on my list0 -
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Has anyone experienced hotel buffets on recent travels abroad? Breakfast buffets, dinner ones etc
I'd imagine they're breeding grounds for Covid (hands all over the fruit etc) and that sensible hotels have paused them for now
The hotel I was at in Crete moved the buffet breakfast to an a la carte menu. It was fab, but it was a pretty upmarket hotel.0 -
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Thelonious Monk wrote: »Good. PM me if you want more details on what I got up to, the weather, the food, etc.
About my time abroad. In Spain. In the sun.
How long were you away for? Did you enjoy the sunny weather?0 -
Been a long-time lurker in this thread trying to get info about travelling abroad. I've just returned from a 2 week trip in Greece and Italy so thought it was only fair to document my own experience in case it helps anyone in the future. This could get long so of course just scroll past if you're not interested in a detailed post!
My partner and I left Dublin on a flight to Chania in Crete on a sold out flight. Dublin airport felt safe enough, although not everyone was wearing a mask and no one seemed to be enforcing it either. This was a few weeks ago now though so might have changed by now. I had read beforehand that Ryanair had safety precautions on board and assumed they'd be followed. Unfortunately this wasn't what we experienced at all, but now I think we just had bad luck as our other two flights with them were smooth sailing.
We booked seats in the very back row so no one would be behind us. Next thing we know a family of about 20 descend upon us and fill up every seat around us. When I saw every single one of them had their masks under their noses I knew I had made a huge mistake. As soon as the seatbelt sign went off they were all ordering drinks, masks off for the entire flight as the drinks just kept coming. The staff served them for the full 4 hours and they were hammered upon arrival, screaming and shouting down the plane.
Another thing I noticed was that nobody actually asked to go to the toilet like we were told at the start. People were squeezing past each other up and down the aisle, I've honestly never seen as many people go to the toilet on a flight ever. People were also walking around the plane, the lad beside us got up and was chatting to his wife in the front row and then she came down to the back row and sat on his lap for a good 25 minutes. This would have made me uncomfortable in normal times but jesus, I couldn't believe what I was seeing on this flight. There didn't seem to be any effort from anyone to be any bit responsible and the flight attendants didn't care.
We then got off the flight, everyone launching themselves into the aisle to grab their bags, no attempt at distancing whatsoever. The good news is things only get better from here and I'll stop sounding so negative!
Greece have a great system for screening arrivals. My partner was tested, just a single mouth swab. It delayed us by a grand total of about 90 seconds, the efficiency was unreal. Results come back within 24 hours and it's recommended you distance from others until then. The Greek government pays for everything if you test positive.
My experience in Chania re Covid was okay. The place itself is great and would highly highly recommend. They did seem a bit behind Ireland on the Covid side though. The waiters all have these stupid mouth guards that very barely cover their nostrils. A huge huge number of people were wearing masks under their nose or around their chin, most noticeably retail workers. Since then though Greece's cases have increased so perhaps they're taking it more seriously now. Buses were filled to 100% capacity which was very weird but I soon learned it occurs all across Greece. On one occasion a girl behind us was coughing consistently for ages, about 45 minutes, with her mask around her chin. Felt like I couldn't say anything to her as I was a visitor in her country but if it had been in Ireland I would have told her to cop on and put her mask on.
Ferry to Santorini was grand, about 50% capacity with every second seat marked off. Mask wearing was 100% and I even saw people get called out for having their noses out. Getting off though everyone crams up together so you might want to wait until the last minute to get off. Never been to Santorini before so I can't say how crowded it was compared to other years, but it was definitely busier than I had expected it to be. The streets of Oia were uncomfortable around sunset time but other than that it was a pleasant experience and compliance with Covid related stuff was very high. We did walk by a few bars that were blaring tunes with people dancing inside, not unlike the Berlin Bar scenes here, but we just avoided all that.
We then got on a Blue Star ferry to Athens. This ferry was as full as it possibly could have been. Maybe during normal times people sit on the floor, I'm not sure, but every seat was taken and the staff even began to seat strangers together on the same tables. Again Athens was grand, same compliance as Santorini. We went to the Acropolis at 3pm and it wasn't too busy, if you went early you'd nearly have it to yourself. Again the bars here were full, looked like a great city during normal times for a session but we just weren't willing to get that close to a room full of drunk people. The restaurants throughout Greece all seem safe enough as they're all outside.
Things got a bit difficult then entering Italy, but we knew something like this might happen on a two country trip. A few days before flying Italy announced everyone coming from Greece would have to undergo a Covid test. I read reports of queues of up to 3/4 hours in the airport in Rome to get tested, plus you have to quarantine for 48 hours until results are back. This was in contradiction to the official press release saying rapid tests would be in place in airports, but when I rang the airport they confirmed 48 hours for results. As we were only stopping in Rome for 3 days before heading home, we decided to get privately tested in Athens airport the day before flying. This cost €70 and the results were back the same day via email, extremely quick and efficient and very much worth the cost even just to skip the line and paperwork in Rome imo.
When we landed in Rome it appeared the reports I had read were true - a painfully slow moving line with one man sorting through everyone's paperwork. We were the only ones on the flight who had been tested beforehand and got to skip it all. I definitely think Italy did the right thing when deciding arrivals from Greece needed to be tested but the process was so slow and really not that clear at all. Hopefully they get a handle on it and start testing more countries as they've done such a good job in containing Covid. One thing I found strange was no one took our locator forms off us when we walked past the testing area so our contact details etc weren't on file anywhere even if someone on the flight had tested positive.
Regarding Rome, I was highly impressed, safest I've felt since March. I've had friends who can't believe I'd even consider going to Italy right now which is a bit of a joke, the difference between Rome and Dublin was night and day. Everyone wears masks, no questions asked. We went to the zoo and had to wear a mask around the whole thing. You can see that people are still a little cautious but are just getting on with life. Unfortunately a lot of businesses were closed down, but I'm not sure if this was just their typical holidays in August or because of Covid.
The Colosseum was busy. Even with pre-booked tickets it took us an hour to get in. The Vatican museum wasn't too bad but nowhere near as empty as you'd think. The streets on the other hand were less crowded, and the Spanish Steps almost empty at one point. Would recommend you to book a restaurant if there's one you really want to go to, we got lucky with ours but most were full.
Overall would highly highly recommend Rome right now, but their cases are rising so definitely keep an eye on that. It is hard to wear a mask in the heat and it's definitely expected in more crowded areas outdoors, but it obviously just has to be done. I definitely don't think there's any anti-mask protests or Covid is a hoax signs there.
Greece's cases are also rising, and in comparison to Rome they weren't taking things as seriously. I wouldn't really let that put you off, although I'm a young person and won't be visiting my parents for 2 weeks just in case. If you're only planning on chilling at the beach and not putting yourself out there in more crowded/touristy situations then I wouldn't be worrying at all. Hopefully no one else has the same flight experience as our first flight as it put a bad taste in our mouths, but our other two flights were great and I had no worries whatsoever while on them.0 -
There’s a new Green List due today isn’t there?0
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HawthornAcc90 wrote: »Been a long-time lurker in this thread trying to get info about travelling abroad. I've just returned from a 2 week trip in Greece and Italy so thought it was only fair to document my own experience in case it helps anyone in the future. This could get long so of course just scroll past if you're not interested in a detailed post!
My partner and I left Dublin on a flight to Chania in Crete on a sold out flight. Dublin airport felt safe enough, although not everyone was wearing a mask and no one seemed to be enforcing it either. This was a few weeks ago now though so might have changed by now. I had read beforehand that Ryanair had safety precautions on board and assumed they'd be followed. Unfortunately this wasn't what we experienced at all, but now I think we just had bad luck as our other two flights with them were smooth sailing.
We booked seats in the very back row so no one would be behind us. Next thing we know a family of about 20 descend upon us and fill up every seat around us. When I saw every single one of them had their masks under their noses I knew I had made a huge mistake. As soon as the seatbelt sign went off they were all ordering drinks, masks off for the entire flight as the drinks just kept coming. The staff served them for the full 4 hours and they were hammered upon arrival, screaming and shouting down the plane.
Another thing I noticed was that nobody actually asked to go to the toilet like we were told at the start. People were squeezing past each other up and down the aisle, I've honestly never seen as many people go to the toilet on a flight ever. People were also walking around the plane, the lad beside us got up and was chatting to his wife in the front row and then she came down to the back row and sat on his lap for a good 25 minutes. This would have made me uncomfortable in normal times but jesus, I couldn't believe what I was seeing on this flight. There didn't seem to be any effort from anyone to be any bit responsible and the flight attendants didn't care.
We then got off the flight, everyone launching themselves into the aisle to grab their bags, no attempt at distancing whatsoever. The good news is things only get better from here and I'll stop sounding so negative!
Greece have a great system for screening arrivals. My partner was tested, just a single mouth swab. It delayed us by a grand total of about 90 seconds, the efficiency was unreal. Results come back within 24 hours and it's recommended you distance from others until then. The Greek government pays for everything if you test positive.
My experience in Chania re Covid was okay. The place itself is great and would highly highly recommend. They did seem a bit behind Ireland on the Covid side though. The waiters all have these stupid mouth guards that very barely cover their nostrils. A huge huge number of people were wearing masks under their nose or around their chin, most noticeably retail workers. Since then though Greece's cases have increased so perhaps they're taking it more seriously now. Buses were filled to 100% capacity which was very weird but I soon learned it occurs all across Greece. On one occasion a girl behind us was coughing consistently for ages, about 45 minutes, with her mask around her chin. Felt like I couldn't say anything to her as I was a visitor in her country but if it had been in Ireland I would have told her to cop on and put her mask on.
Ferry to Santorini was grand, about 50% capacity with every second seat marked off. Mask wearing was 100% and I even saw people get called out for having their noses out. Getting off though everyone crams up together so you might want to wait until the last minute to get off. Never been to Santorini before so I can't say how crowded it was compared to other years, but it was definitely busier than I had expected it to be. The streets of Oia were uncomfortable around sunset time but other than that it was a pleasant experience and compliance with Covid related stuff was very high. We did walk by a few bars that were blaring tunes with people dancing inside, not unlike the Berlin Bar scenes here, but we just avoided all that.
We then got on a Blue Star ferry to Athens. This ferry was as full as it possibly could have been. Maybe during normal times people sit on the floor, I'm not sure, but every seat was taken and the staff even began to seat strangers together on the same tables. Again Athens was grand, same compliance as Santorini. We went to the Acropolis at 3pm and it wasn't too busy, if you went early you'd nearly have it to yourself. Again the bars here were full, looked like a great city during normal times for a session but we just weren't willing to get that close to a room full of drunk people. The restaurants throughout Greece all seem safe enough as they're all outside.
Things got a bit difficult then entering Italy, but we knew something like this might happen on a two country trip. A few days before flying Italy announced everyone coming from Greece would have to undergo a Covid test. I read reports of queues of up to 3/4 hours in the airport in Rome to get tested, plus you have to quarantine for 48 hours until results are back. This was in contradiction to the official press release saying rapid tests would be in place in airports, but when I rang the airport they confirmed 48 hours for results. As we were only stopping in Rome for 3 days before heading home, we decided to get privately tested in Athens airport the day before flying. This cost €70 and the results were back the same day via email, extremely quick and efficient and very much worth the cost even just to skip the line and paperwork in Rome imo.
When we landed in Rome it appeared the reports I had read were true - a painfully slow moving line with one man sorting through everyone's paperwork. We were the only ones on the flight who had been tested beforehand and got to skip it all. I definitely think Italy did the right thing when deciding arrivals from Greece needed to be tested but the process was so slow and really not that clear at all. Hopefully they get a handle on it and start testing more countries as they've done such a good job in containing Covid. One thing I found strange was no one took our locator forms off us when we walked past the testing area so our contact details etc weren't on file anywhere even if someone on the flight had tested positive.
Regarding Rome, I was highly impressed, safest I've felt since March. I've had friends who can't believe I'd even consider going to Italy right now which is a bit of a joke, the difference between Rome and Dublin was night and day. Everyone wears masks, no questions asked. We went to the zoo and had to wear a mask around the whole thing. You can see that people are still a little cautious but are just getting on with life. Unfortunately a lot of businesses were closed down, but I'm not sure if this was just their typical holidays in August or because of Covid.
The Colosseum was busy. Even with pre-booked tickets it took us an hour to get in. The Vatican museum wasn't too bad but nowhere near as empty as you'd think. The streets on the other hand were less crowded, and the Spanish Steps almost empty at one point. Would recommend you to book a restaurant if there's one you really want to go to, we got lucky with ours but most were full.
Overall would highly highly recommend Rome right now, but their cases are rising so definitely keep an eye on that. It is hard to wear a mask in the heat and it's definitely expected in more crowded areas outdoors, but it obviously just has to be done. I definitely don't think there's any anti-mask protests or Covid is a hoax signs there.
Greece's cases are also rising, and in comparison to Rome they weren't taking things as seriously. I wouldn't really let that put you off, although I'm a young person and won't be visiting my parents for 2 weeks just in case. If you're only planning on chilling at the beach and not putting yourself out there in more crowded/touristy situations then I wouldn't be worrying at all. Hopefully no one else has the same flight experience as our first flight as it put a bad taste in our mouths, but our other two flights were great and I had no worries whatsoever while on them.
Thanks so much for that really interesting account of your trip, definitely not too long as it's such a good read and very helpful to other travellers.
Your description of your first flight is jaw dropping :eek: You were clearly surrounded by architypal covidiots and those utter idiots are hugely to blame in giving the pleasures of life like travel,having a few drinks a bad name and for keeping the restrictions so strict. If only everyone would act responsibly! I'd have found it hard to stay quiet if I were in that situation.:mad:
But glad you had such a great holiday. We all need a decent break and testing is clearly the way forward to enable safe and efficient foreign travel. If only they'd do it here as an alternative to this messy restrict movements malarky and to enable the aviation and tourism sectors to recover.0 -
The problem with travelling in these times is that you really are depending on other people not being kn0bs, and there really is a significant minority of utter kn0bs out there.
My experience wasn't anywhere near as bad as that poster's but still had to contend with being sat next to someone who refused to wear a mask for basically any of the flight, and everyone jumping up to get bags out of the lockers the second the seatbelt sign went off, including a fella who literally leaned right over me to get his bag down. The cabin crew did try their best but ultimately they cannot police every passenger every second of the time.
I really feel for you HawthornAcc90, it must be so frustrating to go to great lengths to books seats you hope will be safer and all the rest, and then have that sinking feeling as you realise you're surrounded by morons.
Really hope we'll have rapid testing soon and have to present a negative result from the last 48 hours to fly, even if masks are mandatory. This won't be foolproof but should reduce the risk massively. This is the only way I think most people will feel confident flying and travelling and passenger numbers will pick up again.0 -
Interesting to read the lack of intervention by Ryanair hostesses there
They notoriously never give a fcuk, but you'd think - given the controversy around O'Leary this year - that some training or new directives would've been given to staff0 -
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I would absolutely love to get away in September but I would be shunned and blacklisted by my friends for being “selfish” and “irresponsible” so it’s just not worth it. I think lots and lots of people are in the same boat really.0
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