Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Gael23

UDAWINNER wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12538133/every-passenger-tui-zante-cardiff-isolate-coronavirus/
hope the trip was worth it, probably a few muppets who got round wearing a mask by having a drink caused this. But there will be people defending them

Saw that on another thread. Not what the aviation industry want you to hear

Happydays2020

An article in the Irish Times today is giving perspective on how Ireland is now being perceived.

“Third, Hogan’s resignation also serves to further illustrate the growing gap between Ireland and the rest of the EU, differences which are now also evident in policies to tackle coronavirus.
Viewed from afar, Ireland seems stuck behind a “Celtic curtain” obsessing about case numbers in Britain and the United States. Much of continental Europe has understood the trade-off between allowing society to function as close to normal as possible and an increased (but manageable) level of virus cases.
Here in Flanders, my daughter returned to school in May, free testing for those who want it is available and international travel is restricted (but allowed) based on the latest virus data available.

In Ireland, the Government’s unease at a health system with very limited capacity has made Irish people afraid of travel, afraid of tourists, seemingly afraid of themselves. Instead of utilising best-practice examples from around Europe, Ireland has largely ignored EU guidelines for safely restarting international travel.

This is Irish exceptionalism of the worst kind. And by allowing the parochialism of Ireland’s domestic politics to dominate its engagement in European affairs,
Dublin has blundered badly. It may take us a generation in Brussels to repair this damage.”

Nicetrustedcup

Reading the above has made me realise that Ireland with Covid is starting to go backwards and not forwards,

What I mean by this is that Ireland was held back by the Catholic Church in Ireland for many years by putting fear into people over everything and anything being a sin or god won’t forgot about what you done. However the Catholic Church didn’t give a crap about what they where doing behind it all.

Now in 2020 we are getting back to this again fear is being brought back to the Irish people just like the Catholic Church gave us, travel is evil is what we are told just like it was a sin to have a child outside of wedlock. People are judging you for leaving the country on holiday and are openly giveing out to you to stay in Ireland as our government has told us to do,

I see the Covid cases going up yes, but the deaths are not and that’s what I care about, but look what all this Covid crap has done to the mental health of the people in the county is nuts,

Myself I can’t wait to travel in the next few weeks and as I am not going to deal with this fear or judgement of people put on me for something as silly as going on airplane for 3 hours and being honest being on a train or a bus is the very same thing in Ireland !!!!

yoshimitsu

Happydays2020 wrote: »

An article in the Irish Times today is giving perspective on how Ireland is now being perceived.

“Third, Hogan’s resignation also serves to further illustrate the growing gap between Ireland and the rest of the EU, differences which are now also evident in policies to tackle coronavirus.
Viewed from afar, Ireland seems stuck behind a “Celtic curtain” obsessing about case numbers in Britain and the United States. Much of continental Europe has understood the trade-off between allowing society to function as close to normal as possible and an increased (but manageable) level of virus cases.
Here in Flanders, my daughter returned to school in May, free testing for those who want it is available and international travel is restricted (but allowed) based on the latest virus data available.

In Ireland, the Government’s unease at a health system with very limited capacity has made Irish people afraid of travel, afraid of tourists, seemingly afraid of themselves. Instead of utilising best-practice examples from around Europe, Ireland has largely ignored EU guidelines for safely restarting international travel.

This is Irish exceptionalism of the worst kind. And by allowing the parochialism of Ireland’s domestic politics to dominate its engagement in European affairs,
Dublin has blundered badly. It may take us a generation in Brussels to repair this damage.”

Have been saying this since late June when the rest of Europe started opening up...


Plenty of reasonable people on this thread have looked at other countries' policies and statistics and as a result of that have decided with their own heads that it was safe to travel. I took inspiration and support from those people and did 20 days abroad visiting family in Italy and Spain. Have restricted movement for 14 days and today kids are off to school and life is back to "normal" with a fair amount of "holiday goodwill" to hopefully last us till Christmas




But have had countless debates with others, on here and on the Green List thread, around "the government knows best" "respect those who have given their lives to fight covid" "we're like New Zealand"


i suspect as time goes on people will realize how easily manipulated they are from authorities. i dont expect anybody to come on here and admit that but maybe they'll learn to use their own minds going forward

Happydays2020

Happydays2020 wrote: »

An article in the Irish Times today is giving perspective on how Ireland is now being perceived.

“Third, Hogan’s resignation also serves to further illustrate the growing gap between Ireland and the rest of the EU, differences which are now also evident in policies to tackle coronavirus.
Viewed from afar, Ireland seems stuck behind a “Celtic curtain” obsessing about case numbers in Britain and the United States. Much of continental Europe has understood the trade-off between allowing society to function as close to normal as possible and an increased (but manageable) level of virus cases.
Here in Flanders, my daughter returned to school in May, free testing for those who want it is available and international travel is restricted (but allowed) based on the latest virus data available.

In Ireland, the Government’s unease at a health system with very limited capacity has made Irish people afraid of travel, afraid of tourists, seemingly afraid of themselves. Instead of utilising best-practice examples from around Europe, Ireland has largely ignored EU guidelines for safely restarting international travel.

This is Irish exceptionalism of the worst kind. And by allowing the parochialism of Ireland’s domestic politics to dominate its engagement in European affairs,
Dublin has blundered badly. It may take us a generation in Brussels to repair this damage.”

Good article. I’ve travelled to Geneva and Rome and London in recent weeks and the difference in attitudes of the authorities, and the ‘we need to get on with things’ mindset of the people between those places and Ireland is stark.’ I agree with the premise of the piece that Ireland diverging substantially from the rest of the EU with its relentless focus on the daily numbers and general level of fear in the population

copeyhagen

im sure the pople here will have no problem with bailing out the airlines, just like we done for the banks without batting an eyelid.

Wallander

UDAWINNER wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12538133/every-passenger-tui-zante-cardiff-isolate-coronavirus/
hope the trip was worth it, probably a few muppets who got round wearing a mask by having a drink caused this. But there will be people defending them

I was waiting for this kind of story to emerge since flight numbers increased at the start of July, as it was obvious the media would be all over it when it happened. Notably nothing of the kind has happened yet on the many thousands of flights to or from Ireland this summer.



As for defending them, what was their crime exactly? Catching Covid-19 in a different country to their own? Do we think absolutely everyone getting diagnosed in Ireland has avoided taking a bus or a train while infectious?

Happydays2020

Wallander wrote: »

I was waiting for this kind of story to emerge since flight numbers increased at the start of July, as it was obvious the media would be all over it when it happened. Notably nothing of the kind has happened yet on the many thousands of flights to or from Ireland this summer.



As for defending them, what was their crime exactly? Catching Covid-19 in a different country to their own? Do we think absolutely everyone getting diagnosed in Ireland has avoided taking a bus or a train while infectious?

The Brits don’t really mix so a good chance they brought it into Greece, it circulated within the Group, and they brought it back home again.

MadYaker

^^ load of bollox. An opinion piece from some clueless journalist I suppose?

faceman

UDAWINNER wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12538133/every-passenger-tui-zante-cardiff-isolate-coronavirus/
hope the trip was worth it, probably a few muppets who got round wearing a mask by having a drink caused this. But there will be people defending them

They didn’t catch the disease on the plane. I bet when it emerges there was little or no transmission onboard then that won’t make a follow up story

faceman

Happydays2020 wrote: »

An article in the Irish Times today is giving perspective on how Ireland is now being perceived.

“Third, Hogan’s resignation also serves to further illustrate the growing gap between Ireland and the rest of the EU, differences which are now also evident in policies to tackle coronavirus.
Viewed from afar, Ireland seems stuck behind a “Celtic curtain” obsessing about case numbers in Britain and the United States. Much of continental Europe has understood the trade-off between allowing society to function as close to normal as possible and an increased (but manageable) level of virus cases.
Here in Flanders, my daughter returned to school in May, free testing for those who want it is available and international travel is restricted (but allowed) based on the latest virus data available.

In Ireland, the Government’s unease at a health system with very limited capacity has made Irish people afraid of travel, afraid of tourists, seemingly afraid of themselves. Instead of utilising best-practice examples from around Europe, Ireland has largely ignored EU guidelines for safely restarting international travel.

This is Irish exceptionalism of the worst kind. And by allowing the parochialism of Ireland’s domestic politics to dominate its engagement in European affairs,
Dublin has blundered badly. It may take us a generation in Brussels to repair this damage.”

This is so true but not just in relation to Covid but how ireland is viewed by other nations, particularly in Europe. Sure we get the “you Irish are in to drink and so friendly” jibes but beyond that we aren’t always viewed as progressive as some other countries.

Here in Spain one of my friends, she’s never been to Ireland, and she said to me “what is it with you Irish and your love of living in fear?” She also hits a lower blow when she constantly reminds me of how for a nation of friendly people we allow some of the worst animal abuse In Europe, particularly with dogs.

The irony of it all is we have lost our “craic” now that pubs are closed and people sharing young people in videos

BobMc

How long will this last is the biggie, do we eventually call a halt and travel as normal with precautions etc. Will insurance policies have to change, travel in Europe IMO is safe enough healthcare wise as long as systems are not overloaded, travel
to USA or outside EU bloc very risky with no insurance and a foolish move

Limpy

Gov was very happy to be European when it came to Brexit and all the spin around that. Now they seem to have forgotten about all the Benefits the EU brings. I think Ireland has become a little Englander.

Supposed to be going on a short break to Kiev this week. Ryanair will be flying without me, going to Kilkenny instead.

Limpy

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposed to be going on a short break to Kiev this week. Ryanair will be flying without me, going to Kilkenny instead.

Outside the EU is a bit risky if anything goes wrong. Its a nice spot for a few days alright. Massive high rise apartments, I haven't seen anywhere else behind the former Iron curtain states.

gral6

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposed to be going on a short break to Kiev this week. Ryanair will be flying without me, going to Kilkenny instead.

I have just come back from Kyiv 2 weeks ago. Thanks God, I have flown from this RTE fear mongering for a little break.

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposed to be going on a short break to Kiev this week. Ryanair will be flying without me, going to Kilkenny instead.

Sorry to hear that..

Tazz T

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

No economy is more important than one life remember.

Flights aren't increasing infections or deaths. Look at Greece. Hundreds of thousands of holiday makers flying in and out since the middle of July and their infection rate is still lower than ours.

lainey_d_123

Grueller Baby wrote: »

On my flight yesterday there was announcements by Ryanair at the start to say that you need to ring the call bell to ask to use the toilet to try and avoid queues. Within 10 minutes of the drinks trolley coming around that went out the window and it was move as you please.

That said though, the mask adherence was very good.

TBH the drinks trolley even being a thing makes the whole thing a joke. How can they on one hand say masks are essential and you need to keep them on, and then on the other hand sell drinks and food, so that someone who kept ordered G&Ts could basically sit for the entire flight without their mask on?

Tenzor07

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

TBH the drinks trolley even being a thing makes the whole thing a joke. How can they on one hand say masks are essential and you need to keep them on, and then on the other hand sell drinks and food, so that someone who kept ordered G&Ts could basically sit for the entire flight without their mask on?

When you go to a restaurant, a bar or a Cafe and sit down to have your food then you're permitted to remove your face covering.

There are those who will always flout the rules, but the majority are compliant on any of the flights I've been on recently...

lainey_d_123

Tenzor07 wrote: »

When you go to a restaurant, a bar or a Cafe and sit down to have your food then you're permitted to remove your face covering.

There are those who will always flout the rules, but the majority are compliant on any of the flights I've been on recently...

Sure, but there's no mask rules in restaurants, are there? And you're also not sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers. How can people be convinced that masks work and are essential on flights when those around them could be eating and drinking the entire time with no mask on?

It certainly made me feel far more unsafe compared to if the masks strictly had to remain on at all times.

Tenzor07

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Sure, but there's no mask rules in restaurants, are there? And you're also not sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers. How can people be convinced that masks work and are essential on flights when those around them could be eating and drinking the entire time with no mask on?
It certainly made me feel far more unsafe compared to if the masks strictly had to remain on at all times.

Restaurants, bars, cafe's all have rules which say face coverings have to be worn when not sat at your table eating and drinking.

As the air is constantly being recirculated and filtered in the aircraft cabin you aren't at a higher risk because someone has removed their mask to drink, unless of course they are sat close to you and are coughing and sneezing leading to increased risk.
And again, cabin crew are always monitoring passengers to ensure masks are been worn and covering nose and mouth.

JuanJose

faceman wrote: »

Here in Spain one of my friends, she’s never been to Ireland, and she said to me “what is it with you Irish and your love of living in fear?”

With all due respect to your friend, the sh!tshow that's gone on here (in Spain) - in terms of getting a grip on the spread & keeping a lid on new cases - means that it's hard to take that kind of observation on the Irish seriously tbh.

Love of living in fear or Spanish style 'pasotismo' (careless attitude / indifference), which is the only thing I can conclude is ensuring Spain retains top spot in Europe with regard to new cases per 100k of the population. Two sides of the same coin perhaps?

I would agree though in that, from afar, the new Irish government is sabre rattling much too much. RTE seem to be intent on doing likewise. I'd credit most citizens with having the ability to assess the situation as it is however.

JuanJose

Tazz T wrote: »

Flights aren't increasing infections or deaths. Look at Greece. Hundreds of thousands of holiday makers flying in and out since the middle of July and their infection rate is still lower than ours.

Agree in principle on the aspect of flight safety in relation to Covid contagion but the damage an incident like this does....let's just say it'll make some travellers think twice.
Wear your effing mask when flying FFS 🙄 Is It that difficult for people to take that on board (no pun intended)?

"A flight from Zante which left nearly 200 people facing two weeks' self-isolation was a "debacle" and a "free-for-all", passengers say."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53970217

arccosh

looking forward to when the UK is on the green list (if it ever is)

know loads who have gone back and forth UK and Ireland without any quarantine, but the relations are a bit more rule abiding, and if I went back I probably wouldn't have anywhere to stay :-D

DebDynamite

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Restaurants, bars, cafe's all have rules which say face coverings have to be worn when not sat at your table eating and drinking.

As the air is constantly being recirculated and filtered in the aircraft cabin you aren't at a higher risk because someone has removed their mask to drink, unless of course they are sat close to you and are coughing and sneezing leading to increased risk.
And again, cabin crew are always monitoring passengers to ensure masks are been worn and covering nose and mouth.

Face masks are not mandatory in cafes or restaurants.

From anecdotal evidence here, cabin crew are barely even trying to get people to comply with wearing face masks

lainey_d_123

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Restaurants, bars, cafe's all have rules which say face coverings have to be worn when not sat at your table eating and drinking.

As the air is constantly being recirculated and filtered in the aircraft cabin you aren't at a higher risk because someone has removed their mask to drink, unless of course they are sat close to you and are coughing and sneezing leading to increased risk.
And again, cabin crew are always monitoring passengers to ensure masks are been worn and covering nose and mouth.

Not here where I am, they don't.

Cabin crew are not always monitoring passengers, that's the point. On my recent flight back from NI, where virus cases were among the highest in the UK, the girl next to me sat for the entire flight with her mask under her chin sipping one of those silly giant Starbucks coffees, no doubt bought for the very purpose of dodging the mask wearing. I looked around and pretty much everyone around me had purchased a coffee and/or food and was eating it for the majority of the flight time, very slowly.

Either masks help or they don't, and if they help, then why is it more important to sell coffees and gin and tonics than to ensure safety?

ShineOn7

DebDynamite wrote: »

From anecdotal evidence here, Ryanair cabin crew are barely even trying to get people to comply with wearing face masks

FYP

From what I'm hearing their staff (as always) couldn't give a shíte

sideswipe

Tazz T wrote: »

Flights aren't increasing infections or deaths. Look at Greece. Hundreds of thousands of holiday makers flying in and out since the middle of July and their infection rate is still lower than ours.

I wonder has there been any outbreaks of Covid in cabin crew over the summer? I would think they would be a pretty accurate test group of how safe planes are.

Tenzor07

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Not here where I am, they don't.
Cabin crew are not always monitoring passengers, that's the point. On my recent flight back from NI, where virus cases were among the highest in the UK, the girl next to me sat for the entire flight with her mask under her chin sipping one of those silly giant Starbucks coffees, no doubt bought for the very purpose of dodging the mask wearing. I looked around and pretty much everyone around me had purchased a coffee and/or food and was eating it for the majority of the flight time, very slowly. Either masks help or they don't, and if they help, then why is it more important to sell coffees and gin and tonics than to ensure safety?

Right so, I checked and it's not mandatory to wear masks in Restaurant-Pubs and Cafes in Ireland, but is advised at least I would say...
Any Bars, restaurants, cafes, hotels etc. I've been to recently on the continent it is mandatory to wear face coverings unless sat down eating and drinking... I think Ireland&UK are the outliers on that for now...

Ok, so they are Cabin Crew NOT babysitters...!

Every flight i've been on recently the cabin crew made announcements regarding masks and I have heard them tell passengers to place them over their nose...

So, for that person not wearing her mask you would have been perfectly justified in asking her to wear it, or requesting that you be moved to another seat, so i'm not sure if you did that or not, but why just sit there without saying something and waiting for crew to notice?