Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Irish Aris

theological wrote: »

A: this shouldn't be a matter of opinion. The government should define this and restrict travel until this is under control.

B: not until cases and deaths are under control. After this easing could happen if travel remains restricted. The travel restrictions should only be removed when the virus is controlled internationally.

I've not travelled outside of England since December.

You and the other poster miss the point. I'm not discussing catching in an airport or travelling although that is possible. The problem is people catching it abroad and returning home. This is clearly documented now and this is why this should stop.

I have mentioned in previous discussions that to control this internationally, all countries should follow the same approach. Ireland closing and every other EU country being open doesn't achieve anything, once Ireland reopens you bring back in. Frankly I think the time for this was back in May. Anyway, I don't think it is a realistic solution, it will never happen that ell countries will be in sync. The EU traffic light system is probably the most aligned they will get.

As for your comment about the government defining/restricting travelling, I think it is naive to think that visiting immediate family wouldn't be defined as essential travel.

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You're wasting your time with logic and that poster...it's long since left them.

The truth is Air Travel is safer than going to your local Supermarket... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/air-travel-has-lower-covid-risk-than-grocery-shopping-eating-out-study/articleshow/78942226.cms

We can all go visit other countries without being infected or spreading infection so long as we follow the recommended health guidelines...

I think that ship has sailed.......
If things remain the same way into next year will you still have the same opinion?
Like if we get to next halloween and we are in another lockdown, will you still advocate for no quarantine?

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status/1320786173732757505?s=20

ShineOn7

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This coming from someone who's being posting up questions about which country you should travel to for an extended stay?

Feels weird you went trawling through my post history, but whatever floats your boat

I posted that thread 3 months ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114221115

This situation changes on a daily basis, let alone a 12 week one

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

I think that ship has sailed.......
If things remain the same way into next year will you still have the same opinion?
Like if we get to next halloween and we are in another lockdown, will you still advocate for no quarantine?

So tell me, how many of those on the flight you've referenced were infected before the flight?
How many picked up the infection at their household after the flight?

You can't just knock up an oul tweet that makes it look like all these infections happened because of one particular flight without being specific as to where they picked up the infection..

acequion

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So tell me, how many of those on the flight you've referenced were infected before the flight?
How many picked up the infection at their household after the flight?

You can't just knock up an oul tweet that makes it look like all these infections happened because of one particular flight without being specific as to where they picked up the infection..

Absolutely. And in any case we're talking about one flight, just one flight which made headlines convenient to lockdown hardliners. How many other flights worldwide took off and landed safely with nobody affecting anybody? Pity we can't get a stat but I'd say you're looking at a percentage in the 90's. HEPA filters and all that.

There's a pub in my town which achieved notoriety similar to that flight at Cheltenham time and caused a cluster. The fact is that we all know the virus transmits. And we all know it takes just one positive case to infect many more. But do we blacklist the source?? The school where I teach had cases just before Halloween, luckily I caught nothing. Nobody is pontificating that the school be closed nor any of the very many schools registering cases. And I'm glad about that. Though fully aware of the dangers I court daily. I just get on with it, it's called "living with Covid."

So why should international travel be different? Or any shop, restaurant, GAA club? The fact is that the virus is now EVERYWHERE. You literally could catch it EVERYWHERE and ANYWHERE and you don't even have to be so unlucky.

The day for targetting specific places and wagging the finger around pontificating should be well past. But zealots will be zealots.:rolleyes:

acequion

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I'll leave you be with your anger



Have a good night

A totally nonsensical knee jerk rebuttal. Can you come up with nothing better?

Tenzor07

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I'll leave you be with your anger
Have a good night

Am I angry? Lol!

fawlty682

The Government have managed to demonise foreign travel and many people have not seen family for a whole year. It’s not where you are, it’s how you behave. I visited family in England in August and I was in Krakow in September. People obeyed measures in Poland and much more visible enforcement. Good weather for whole week so outside a lot. After staycationing in a country unable to handle large numbers, Ireland opened everything in September after wasting the summer. Pubs were also demonized. Poor enforcement, laughable airport procedure and weak Government after praising ourselves in July and here we are again. It’s strange that no tracking of a case originating in a meat factory or nursing home was published, only air travel. After Christmas, we can have hope to escape the Irish gloom for some sun.

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So tell me, how many of those on the flight you've referenced were infected before the flight?
How many picked up the infection at their household after the flight?

You can't just knock up an oul tweet that makes it look like all these infections happened because of one particular flight without being specific as to where they picked up the infection..

Oh sorry there was a whole academic paper discussed on the main thread. I can summarise for you if it's easier for you.

It takes work to understand the world.


Also you can't hide from this one. Passengers were from three different continents. There was genomic analysis carried out by our very own national reference viral lab which concluded that transmission must have occurred on the plane given the proximity of the viral genomes.

Whole genome sequencing and analysis was performed on five available samples, which came from one case travelling from one continent, three cases travelling from a different continent and one case travelling from a third continent. All five samples were identified as belonging to SARS-CoV-2 viral lineage B.1.36 (PANGOLIN nomenclature, v2.0.7). Pairwise comparison of the nucleotide sequences showed more than 99% homology across the entire viral genome, strongly suggesting a single point source of infection.

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.42.2001624


What say you sir?

theological

theological wrote: »

A: this shouldn't be a matter of opinion. The government should define this and restrict travel until this is under control.

B: not until cases and deaths are under control. After this easing could happen if travel remains restricted. The travel restrictions should only be removed when the virus is controlled internationally.

I've not travelled outside of England since December.

You and the other poster miss the point. I'm not discussing catching in an airport or travelling although that is possible. The problem is people catching it abroad and returning home. This is clearly documented now and this is why this should stop.

Jesus you haven't a clue. Can to actually back up any of this? Can to produce numbers?

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

Oh sorry there was a whole academic paper discussed on the main thread. I can summarise for you if it's easier for you.It takes work to understand the world.Also you can't hide from this one. Passengers were from three different continents. There was genomic analysis carried out by our very own national reference viral lab which concluded that transmission must have occurred on the plane given the proximity of the viral genomes.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.42.2001624


What say you sir?

Ok so Doctor Cutn' Paste from the University of Twitter and Facebook...

They didn’t take a hard enough look at the transit lounges or employee interactions on the ground. Doesn’t say whether the passengers wore masks during transit or prior flights. Also doesn’t trace back to prior flights and the research does not explicitly state in-flight transmission

The recommendations are fine – notify if there’s a case onboard. But really hard to judge in-flight transmission here.

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ok so Doctor Cutn' Paste from the University of Twitter and Facebook...

They didn’t take a hard enough look at the transit lounges or employee interactions on the ground. Doesn’t say whether the passengers wore masks during transit or prior flights. Also doesn’t trace back to prior flights and the research does not explicitly state in-flight transmission

The recommendations are fine – notify if there’s a case onboard. But really hard to judge in-flight transmission here.

How disparaging to speak of public health doctors at the coal face of this. Easy for you to pontificate I guess instead of having to deal with the consequences.
All Irish study.
In a way in flight transmission is irrelevant. Led to 59 cases. Thats a nice little seed to get things going.



Masks were used.

https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1321149357933031424?s=20

Remember the story where a couple didn't quarantine and thought it was 2018. That led to ~50 cases. Who cares where they got it. They fvcking spread it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/how-one-couple-s-weekend-away-resulted-in-30-covid-19-cases-1.4368824

de nile is not just a big river in Egypt.

theological

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Jesus you haven't a clue. Can to actually back up any of this? Can to produce numbers?

Read up. I backed up my points with articles. The lot saying that travel hasn't spread the virus haven't provided anything.

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

Remember the story where a couple didn't quarantine and thought it was 2018. That led to ~50 cases. Who cares where they got it. They fvcking spread it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/how-one-couple-s-weekend-away-resulted-in-30-covid-19-cases-1.4368824

de nile is not just a big river in Egypt.

We can sit here all night so you can demonstrate your expertise with cut n' paste of Tweets you're finding. We can do this for Meat plants, house parties, Schools/Colleges, Berlin Bar Dublin, how long you got?

When you've finished Googling all these tweets remember that in order to get travel moving to any significant levels then we still need rapid flight contact tracing, EU digitalised public health passenger locator forms and development of improved systems of tracing.
We don't even have Temperature checks at Irish airports....

caveat emptor

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We can sit here all night so you can demonstrate your expertise with cut n' paste of Tweets you're finding. We can do this for Meat plants, house parties, Schools/Colleges, Berlin Bar Dublin, how long you got?

When you've finished Googling all these tweets remember that in order to get travel moving to any significant levels then we still need rapid flight contact tracing, EU digitalised public health passenger locator forms and development of improved systems of tracing.
We don't even have Temperature checks at Irish airports....

Sorry your go to argument 4 months ago was " there is no evidence"

The science has now caught up with what was likely. Dismiss google or academic journals all you want. It won't help you position.

Golfman64

caveat emptor wrote: »

I think that ship has sailed.......
If things remain the same way into next year will you still have the same opinion?
Like if we get to next halloween and we are in another lockdown, will you still advocate for no quarantine?

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status/1320786173732757505?s=20

A much more detailed study showing the safety of being on a plane currently - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

It’s not the flight that’s the issue. We need to replace ineffective quarantines with testing and track/trace per the EU travel policy.

Tenzor07

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry your go to argument 4 months ago was " there is no evidence"
The science has now caught up with what was likel. Dismiss google or academic journals all you want. It won't help you position.

Nothing on Tv tonight?

Try have an opinion of your own, could sit here all night and Google every study and instance of virus transmission you like.
The point is that Air travel is low risk, follow all the guidelines, masks, hand washing, sanitizing etc. to have a safe flight.

People like you and that other lad just come on here for what? To try and enhance the fear and blame onto Air travel? Is there not enough of that coming from the media? Better off spending your time and energy emailing your T.D with your views..Or M.P in the case of that other lad.

caveat emptor

Golfman64 wrote: »

A much more detailed study showing the safety of being on a plane currently - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

It’s not the flight that’s the issue. We need to replace ineffective quarantines with testing and track/trace per the EU travel policy.

If you say so Golfman. It's been working so great so far. :rolleyes:
Quarantine has been ineffective because people don't follow it.

When will we wake up.

Golfman64

caveat emptor wrote: »

If you say so Golfman. It's been working so great so far. :rolleyes:
Quarantine has been ineffective because people don't follow it.

When will we wake up.

It’s not me saying it, it’s the EU and qualified people advising on how to safely enable travel between member states.

sy_flembeck

caveat emptor wrote: »

Remember the story where a couple didn't quarantine and thought it was 2018. That led to ~50 cases. Who cares where they got it. They fvcking spread it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/how-one-couple-s-weekend-away-resulted-in-30-covid-19-cases-1.4368824

de nile is not just a big river in Egypt.

Do people actually believe this really happened? If a 6 year old turned up in a classroom with that guff written down they'd be praised for their marvellous imagination. Firsty we're told that nobody in this country takes contact tracing seriously, then miraculously in this case not only do those people all come forward but they also all admit to the most heinous crimes against humanity in the process - including adults going to a party in the afternoon?? FFS. IIRC this fiction was published 24 hours or so before the latest measures were announced.

Nearly as farcical as blaming travellers to Spain for causing the second wave, completely glossing over the fact that they banned everyone from going there in the first place!

johnire

I'm not taking sides folks but Ursula Von der Leyen has said the following;

However, she said EU citizens should restrict travel to essential trips for the time being.

I can't post the link for some reason but it's from an article on dw.com

If she's saying that then to be fair I think it's worth taking note of.....

Golfman64 wrote: »

It’s not me saying it, it’s the EU and qualified people advising on how to safely enable travel between member states.

mandrake04

Europe is in a huge diarrhoea filled toilet and probably will be for sometime, I think the Euro-overlords will probably realise although it might hurt re: Travel/Quarantine they will definitely need to implement something useful over the next 6 months.

smurfjed

People will travel if they feel there is a need.

MAKKAH: Some 10,000 international pilgrims are arriving in Saudi Arabia after a seven-month hiatus to perform Umrah and visit the Prophet’s mosque on the first day of the third stage of the resumption of Umrah.
Cut
Pilgrims must also have full health insurance that includes emergency treatment if infected and a possible PCR test.

Interesting to see that their health insurance covers COVID.

naughtysmurf

mandrake04 wrote: »

Europe is in a huge diarrhoea filled toilet and probably will be for sometime, I think the Euro-overlords will probably realise although it might hurt re: Travel/Quarantine they will definitely need to implement something useful over the next 6 months.

I agree, this has to be done.

When the UK put the Canaries back on their green list recently, there was a surge of bookings, I also read recently that in an Irish survey that 60% said they would travel abroad in 2021. Some won't like it but there is a significant appetite for leisure travel despite the current situation imho.

There needs to be an implimented EU wide accepted pre flight quick result antigen test, not necessarily at the airport, should be able to get this done in your local pharmacy 48/72 hours departure, negative result, off you go, no restrictions on movement, positive = no fly, test should be no more that €20. Yes I understand it's not 100% reliable, a snapshot in time there will be tears etc etc

If you test positive towards the end of your holiday, unfortunately you have to quarantine until fit to fly, this should be arranged by the country you are in at no expense to the tourist. Your EHIC or private health insurance covers any medical costs

The airlines & travel companies need to step up too, if you book a flight or package in good faith but test positive before your outbound flight, you and your party get a free move to a suitable date, you should also be repatriated at no extra cost if you test positive 48/72 hours before returning

If flights are going, people will travel so you might as well have some control over potential virial spread, if Covid is around for the short to medium term at least, we need to start living with it in a somewhat normal manner, sacrifying international travel, aviation, hotels & all the other associated products and services, is not the way to go

Just my 2c, may be full of holes, don't know but have flights booked for September 2021 & will probably book for July 2021 this week too, if flights go, we'll be on them, enjoy our holidays & behave while away.

MarkY91

Guys I'm going to Mexico on the 7th of November. Stopping over in Frankfurt to change planes all via Lufthansa.

I can't for the life of me find out of in good to go or if I have any covid restrictions like filling forms or needing a test done

As far as Im aware, Mexico needs nothing from me. But can't find infor on transiting in Germany.

I'm Irish using an Irish passport if that's of any help.

greensheep777

MarkY91 wrote: »

Guys I'm going to Mexico on the 7th of November. Stopping over in Frankfurt to change planes all via Lufthansa.

I can't for the life of me find out of in good to go or if I have any covid restrictions like filling forms or needing a test done

As far as Im aware, Mexico needs nothing from me. But can't find infor on transiting in Germany.

I'm Irish using an Irish passport if that's of any help.

https://www.google.com/search?&q=germany+travel+transit

caveat emptor

MarkY91 wrote: »

Guys I'm going to Mexico on the 7th of November. Stopping over in Frankfurt to change planes all via Lufthansa.

I can't for the life of me find out of in good to go or if I have any covid restrictions like filling forms or needing a test done

As far as Im aware, Mexico needs nothing from me. But can't find infor on transiting in Germany.

I'm Irish using an Irish passport if that's of any help.

Having read the German docs transiting is fine. Entering requires a test and quarantine for 14 days with a fine of up 25K or 5 years in jail if broken.

Here it’s just a pinky promise.

MarkY91

caveat emptor wrote: »

Having read the German docs transiting is fine. Entering requires a test and quarantine for 14 days with a fine of up 25K or 5 years in jail if broken.

Here it’s just a pinky promise.

Thanks. I managed to find concrete information thanks to the guys helpful post above lol.

Panic over!

ninebeanrows

Just a lazy question regarding that article on transmission on the aircraft to Ireland.

How can they prove transmission occurred on the aircraft? Is it not equally as plausible it was caught before they boarded the plan or when they were mingling somewhere after in Ireland?

Apologies for my laziness but just want to know if this has been discounted or could be equally likely as the cause?

My opinion on the matter is travelling by air is no different to getting a dart or bus at the moment. Very unlikely youll catch it but cant be ruled out.

Golfman64

caveat emptor wrote: »

Having read the German docs transiting is fine. Entering requires a test and quarantine for 14 days with a fine of up 25K or 5 years in jail if broken.

Here it’s just a pinky promise.

After the 8th of November its self isolation at home for 10 days on arrival in Germany from a ‘Risk Area’. This can be reduced to 5 with a negative test result. A cautious but sensible approach in the short term whilst Europe deals with this wave.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus