Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

bikeman1

goingnowhere wrote: »

To be green you need to be under 25 cases/100.000/14 days

Yellow is up to 150 cases but with a positivity rate of under 4% with a condition that the level of testing undertaken is sufficient

Yes with the current rate of reduction we should reach the yellow list early next week, especially after today’s numbers. Positivity rate needs to get a little lower. We need to keep the level of testing up for that. I’d like to see a full class get tested if there was a positive case to ease concerns and keep the testing up.

johnire

That’s not actually true to say no one travelled in the summer.... there are plenty of posts in this very forum from people extolling the virtues of Greece Italy and particularly Spain throughout the summer months.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Very true, maybe in the UK this was a factor but not in Ireland as no one travelled in the summer.

sy_flembeck

johnire wrote: »

That’s not actually true to say no one travelled in the summer.... there are plenty of posts in this very forum from people extolling the virtues of Greece Italy and particularly Spain throughout the summer months.

I'd say there were no more than a dozen or two. Hardly a mass exodus

mandrake04

HA HA some people are delusional if they say no one travelling.

Sure down 85% compared to last year but there was still 516,000 people traveled through Dublin airport alone in the month of August. 374,000 to Europe lol

Just over 516,000 passengers travelled through Dublin Airport in August, an 85% decline compared to the same month last year, as COVID-19 continued to have a very significant impact on traffic numbers.

Passenger volumes to and from continental Europe fell by 80%, as more than 374,000 people travelled to and from European destinations last month.

UK traffic declined by 89% compared to last August, as 105,000 passengers travelled to and from Britain during the month.

Passenger volumes to and from North America decreased by 95%, as just over than 25,400 passengers travelled on transatlantic routes during August.

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/2020/09/08/passenger-numbers-down-85-in-august

johnire

It doesn’t matter- I’m just correcting a point made. That’s all.

sy_flembeck wrote: »

I'd say there were no more than a dozen or two. Hardly a mass exodus

naughtysmurf

sy_flembeck wrote: »

I'd say there were no more than a dozen or two. Hardly a mass exodus

That’s just wrong, plenty travelled, obviously not as many as usual but a dozen or two is just laughable

mandrake04

naughtysmurf wrote: »

That’s just wrong, plenty travelled, obviously not as many as usual but a dozen or two is just laughable

Disingenuous or just laughable? to say that no one travelled for summer or at most a dozen or so!!

I love when Retards make fools out of themselves, its like the gift that keeps giving.

Especially when the stats are at hand.

johnire wrote: »

That’s not actually true to say no one travelled in the summer.... there are plenty of posts in this very forum from people extolling the virtues of Greece Italy and particularly Spain throughout the summer months.

Yeah you are right John the stats confirm it, the two most travelled European countries during August Spain and Italy...slightly more than No one.

August 2020 Ireland- Destination Arrivals - Departures

Spain

Arrivals 33,600 Departures 22,800

Italy

Arrivals 27,300 Departures 23,300







https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsaugust2020/

theological

mandrake04 wrote: »

HA HA some people are delusional if they say no one travelling.

Sure down 85% compared to last year but there was still 516,000 people traveled through Dublin airport alone in the month of August. 374,000 to Europe lol

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/2020/09/08/passenger-numbers-down-85-in-august

People aren't interested in the facts on this thread, only in justifying selfishness. It's obvious that international travel is one of the main drivers in spreading this pandemic and in reseeding it. The evidence is clear that this has happened multiples times in Ireland. Yet people aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send the virus packing.

Van.Bosch

theological wrote: »

People aren't interested in the facts on this thread, only in justifying selfishness. It's obvious that international travel is one of the main drivers in spreading this pandemic and in reseeding it. The evidence is clear that this has happened multiples times in Ireland. Yet people aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send the virus packing.

What evidence is there that international travel has re-seeded the virus in Ireland multiple times?

theological

Van.Bosch wrote: »

What evidence is there that international travel has re-seeded the virus in Ireland multiple times?

The fact that the dominant strain of the virus in Ireland originated from Spain in the summer isn't enough evidence that travel has reseeded the virus? Also - do you believe that all 60% of these cases originated from one person given that we know that thousands of people flew to Spain in the summer?

You and others who argue otherwise need to back up your speculations at this stage because I've done my bit here.

Tazz T

theological wrote: »

The UK isn't a part of the EU system. I don't think you need to quarantine on return from Ireland in the UK at the moment.



Why must it continue? If travel is a key way that the virus has reintroduced itself into our society then it should be an option to restrict it until it is under control.

We wouldn't be in lockdown if the virus hadn't reseeded from travel in Europe this summer. Therefore it could be argued that travel is harming other areas of the economy because it has led to this lockdown. The fact that Ireland is in lockdown disproves your argument that it has done well!

Either we have lockdown easing domestically whilst restricting travel or we have open travel and repeated lockdowns. That's what it looks like until the virus is eradicated.

Absolute nonsense. Without travel, we would be in lockdown, because the virus 'reseeded' hundreds of time on public transport. Just to clarify, 'reseeded' actually means reintroducing the virus into an environment where it has already been eliminated. Not the case.

I also note that you have said this thread is about 'justifying selfishness', which says a lot about your personal agenda. This thread is a discussion about the safety of air travel during the pandemic.

mandrake04

theological wrote: »

People aren't interested in the facts on this thread, only in justifying selfishness. It's obvious that international travel is one of the main drivers in spreading this pandemic and in reseeding it. The evidence is clear that this has happened multiples times in Ireland. Yet people aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send the virus packing.

Nah of course they aren't, its all self serving.

Ireland are not great at surveillance, Australia is a good example of actual surveillance of the 4500 arrivals this week 47 had virus on entering the hotel.

its 1% but still 47 cases, when you consider that 1 Clown caused a chain of 56 people to be infected, what sort of damage would 1% do when your arrivals is in 100s of thousands.

I'm only saying this is an example the average man in the street can consider, lock up 4500 or lock up 25m.

JoeExotic81

theological wrote: »

The fact that the dominant strain of the virus in Ireland originated from Spain in the summer isn't enough evidence that travel has reseeded the virus? Also - do you believe that all 60% of these cases originated from one person given that we know that thousands of people flew to Spain in the summer?

You and others who argue otherwise need to back up your speculations at this stage because I've done my bit here.

Can mods not remove nonsense like this?

polesheep

johnire wrote: »

That’s not actually true to say no one travelled in the summer.... there are plenty of posts in this very forum from people extolling the virtues of Greece Italy and particularly Spain throughout the summer months.

I travelled to Italy in September and although the airports were very quiet, the planes that were flying were fairly full. And no, I didn't bring the virus back with me.

skyway

The Canaries are looking for up to 30,000 remote workers to relocate there. It was reported on the main news channels here in Spain on Fri night. This is to offset the fact that tourism there has obviously been ravaged since March.

Article is in Spanish: https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2020-11-05/el-teletrabajo-ya-es-mainstream-y-canarias-necesita-que-te-instales-en-las-islas-con-tu-ordenador.html

Quite a few other countries are beginning to offer "digital nomad" visas too:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/countries-that-will-give-you-a-remote-work-visa-and-how-to-get-to-them-2020-10-29

I think something like this is likely to persist even post Covid. As long as the tax side of things is taken care of and your employer agrees to it, then, I guess, a person should be good to go.

timeToLive

theological wrote: »

The fact that the dominant strain of the virus in Ireland originated from Spain in the summer isn't enough evidence that travel has reseeded the virus? Also - do you believe that all 60% of these cases originated from one person given that we know that thousands of people flew to Spain in the summer?

You and others who argue otherwise need to back up your speculations at this stage because I've done my bit here.

You've just ignored responses to you and keep spouting the same stuff. From looking at your signature I shouldn't be surprised :rolleyes:

scamalert

skyway wrote: »

The Canaries are looking for up to 30,000 remote workers to relocate there. It was reported on the main news channels here in Spain on Fri night. This is to offset the fact that tourism there has obviously been ravaged since March.

Article is in Spanish: https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2020-11-05/el-teletrabajo-ya-es-mainstream-y-canarias-necesita-que-te-instales-en-las-islas-con-tu-ordenador.html

Quite a few other countries are beginning to offer "digital nomad" visas too:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/countries-that-will-give-you-a-remote-work-visa-and-how-to-get-to-them-2020-10-29

I think something like this is likely to persist even post Covid. As long as the tax side of things is taken care of and your employer agrees to it, then, I guess, a person should be good to go.

not surpsised really given how much local economies depends on tourists there, yet looking since likes of March up to September etc place was literally empty, as someone who goes there at least once a year realized simply aint worth it this year with all the precautions and even at best half places would been closed off anyway, not really a holiday when you think about it. So seeing covid wont going away any time soon 2 consequent years could be a grim future for many locals if next year its still as rampant in regards to economies that heavily depends on tourism.

johnire

Why so defensive? I never said you personally brought the virus back.

polesheep wrote: »

I travelled to Italy in September and although the airports were very quiet, the planes that were flying were fairly full. And no, I didn't bring the virus back with me.

fm

theological wrote: »

People aren't interested in the facts on this thread, only in justifying selfishness. It's obvious that international travel is one of the main drivers in spreading this pandemic and in reseeding it. The evidence is clear that this has happened multiples times in Ireland. Yet people aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send the virus packing.

You need to get over the fact that borders and airports aren't going to be closed and stop the blame/selfishness posts,not a great way to debate a subject is it?

Maybe the new strain of the virus was imported by essential travellers to Ireland and across Europe, think about how many truck drivers cross eu borders every day??. Was it really tourists coming back from wuhan originally ?
This new strain originated in a non tourist area of Spain after all.

How many people travelled this summer safely and didn't bring the virus back, shutting everything down is not the way, regulation is,if only the irish government would move quicker with testing at airports which they are still stalling on, instead of a pretend law to quarantine for 14 days which certain people are going to ignore anyway.

Tenzor07

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Can mods not remove nonsense like this?

Thankfully it’s only someone’s opinion based on whatever nonsense they want to share with the rest of us.
Sad they blame a tiny fraction of the population who actually travelled when the vast majority stayed home, yet some posters have a need to blame someone, because that’s what this pandemic has shown us, people who had agendas for years now using Covid as an excuse to stop/ban people from another country travelling to theirs so they use the virus to demonise those from elsewhere...

theological

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Can mods not remove nonsense like this?

I'm sorry to disrupt your echo chamber with a logical viewpoint that disrupts your own.

The fact of the matter is we can either shutdown society repeatedly and allow open travel leading to the virus reseeding repeatedly or we can stop travel control the virus internally and ease restrictions in a more sustainable manner.

It can't be both. I agree with posters who argue that community spread must also be controlled but it is a fools errand to say that this is possible whilst importing more cases from abroad.

I would choose banning international travel over repeatedly shutting down society to allow others to travel freely.

theological

theological wrote: »

I'm sorry to disrupt your echo chamber with a logical viewpoint that disrupts your own.

The fact of the matter is we can either shutdown society repeatedly and allow open travel leading to the virus reseeding repeatedly or we can stop travel control the virus internally and ease restrictions in a more sustainable manner.

It can't be both. I agree with posters who argue that community spread must also be controlled but it is a fools errand to say that this is possible whilst importing more cases from abroad.

I would choose banning international travel over repeatedly shutting down society to allow others to travel freely.

Except international travel is 100% absolutely needed in a whole range of areas so closing the airports will NOT happen, ever. Outside of a zombie apocolypse that is.

So considering your option is not actually realistic, thats a wasted vote. I vote to allow travel.

theological

theological wrote: »

I'm sorry to disrupt your echo chamber with a logical viewpoint that disrupts your own.

The fact of the matter is we can either shutdown society repeatedly and allow open travel leading to the virus reseeding repeatedly or we can stop travel control the virus internally and ease restrictions in a more sustainable manner.

It can't be both. I agree with posters who argue that community spread must also be controlled but it is a fools errand to say that this is possible whilst importing more cases from abroad.

I would choose banning international travel over repeatedly shutting down society to allow others to travel freely.

There is zero chance of international travel being banned. And the idea of 2 weeks institutional forced quarantine like in NZ is not something that the government would risk politically.

The best that you can hope for is some kind of testing regime, X days before travel and upon arrival

theological

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Except international travel is 100% absolutely needed in a whole range of areas so closing the airports will NOT happen, ever. Outside of a zombie apocolypse that is.

So considering your option is not actually realistic, thats a wasted vote. I vote to allow travel.

What areas is it needed in? Apart from freight which obviously would be excluded.

Whole swathes of work can be done remotely. Lots of work can be done without the need to travel.

Repeated lockdowns cost the economy more than restricting travelling. If the travel sector needs to struggle until this is under control then I would consider that a worthy sacrifice even if it would be regrettable.

East Asia has done this. As has Australia and New Zealand. This isn't impossible. People are just unwilling to do what is required.

JoeExotic81

theological wrote: »

I'm sorry to disrupt your echo chamber with a logical viewpoint that disrupts your own.

The fact of the matter is we can either shutdown society repeatedly and allow open travel leading to the virus reseeding repeatedly or we can stop travel control the virus internally and ease restrictions in a more sustainable manner.

It can't be both. I agree with posters who argue that community spread must also be controlled but it is a fools errand to say that this is possible whilst importing more cases from abroad.

I would choose banning international travel over repeatedly shutting down society to allow others to travel freely.

You do realise that even one case is a SEED as you love to write? So for your ridiculous theory to work, you first need to completely eradicate the virus. That time has passed. Or do you propose we're all locked into our homes for three weeks with the whole country also shutdown, no exceptions, for three weeks to allow your ridiculous notions to finally make sense?

Nonsense.

fm

Testing starting at Cork and Shannon airports this week----not cheap at 149 euros and a few hours wait

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1108/1176737-coronavirus-ireland/

Happydays2020

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

You do realise that even one case is a SEED as you love to write? So for your ridiculous theory to work, you first need to completely eradicate the virus. That time has passed. Or do you propose we're all locked into our homes for three weeks with the whole country also shutdown, no exceptions, for three weeks to allow your ridiculous notions to finally make sense?

Nonsense.

And remain shut and build a border with NI.

GazzaL

theological wrote: »

I'm sorry to disrupt your echo chamber with a logical viewpoint that disrupts your own.

The fact of the matter is we can either shutdown society repeatedly and allow open travel leading to the virus reseeding repeatedly or we can stop travel control the virus internally and ease restrictions in a more sustainable manner.

It can't be both. I agree with posters who argue that community spread must also be controlled but it is a fools errand to say that this is possible whilst importing more cases from abroad.

I would choose banning international travel over repeatedly shutting down society to allow others to travel freely.

I'm off the Belgium and the only thing I'll be bringing back to Ireland is chocolates.

The Continental Op

Back from UK last week, travelled by car on ferry and isolating at home. 3rd time of doing this and third time I've filled in a Passenger Locator Form (online). This is the first time I've been contacted.

Basically some poor guy reading from a script telling me what I wasn't allowed to do, annoying if only for the reason I've read the regulations several times and I'm at home complying with them.

What did seem strange was that I was told that I am supposed to update them if my location changes for 14 days after the initial 14 day quarantine

I checked this with the rep who insisted it was correct so checked myself online and the only thing similar but not the same I could find was

if any of the information you provide on this form changes in the next 14 days, you must send an email with your complete and updated information to the following email address: passengerlocatorform@plf.ie

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ab900-covid-19-passenger-locator-form/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/locatorform/

Anyone else get a call and get the info about the extra 14 days for notification or was it just me having a communications failure with the rep?

Van.Bosch

theological wrote: »

The fact that the dominant strain of the virus in Ireland originated from Spain in the summer isn't enough evidence that travel has reseeded the virus? Also - do you believe that all 60% of these cases originated from one person given that we know that thousands of people flew to Spain in the summer?

You and others who argue otherwise need to back up your speculations at this stage because I've done my bit here.

So again, where is the evidence? Do you have a link to the study or articles on this re seeding?

If you’ve “done your bit” you would have evidence, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not those who question it.

It may all be true but some evidence would help.