Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

SusieBlue

nofools wrote: »

No...people lost their jobs, their businesses, their time, their freedom, their relationships, their sanity, their loved ones because of the people who only think for themselves.

50% selfish behaviour this wave and 50% not controlling borders from February onwards.

The first wave unavoidable, the second wave inexcusable.

That is an absolutely outrageous claim.
The majority of deaths, clusters and cases have come from entities that the public bear no responsibility for, for example hospital staff, infection spread in hospitals, nursing homes, direct provision centres, and meat factories.
It is not the fault of the public that these places were completely mismanaged and neglected.

The government used those numbers as justification for shutting the country down rather than admit they dropped the ball.
They had plenty of time to come up with a better plan for actually living with covid (cause the last 8 months having been ‘living’ by any stretch of the imagination) and they’ve come up empty.
That’s completely inexcusable and a failure on their part.

Why have a 5 tier plan if we’re going to jump from level 2 to 5 overnight?
Their solution to everything is lockdown, lockdown, and more lockdown. It just isn’t good enough.

nofools

SusieBlue wrote: »

That is an absolutely outrageous claim.
The majority of deaths, clusters and cases have come from entities that the public bear no responsibility for, for example hospital staff, infection spread in hospitals, nursing homes, direct provision centres, and meat factories.
It is not the fault of the public that these places were completely mismanaged and neglected.

The government used those numbers as justification for shutting the country down rather than admit they dropped the ball.
They had plenty of time to come up with a better plan for actually living with covid (cause the last 8 months having been ‘living’ by any stretch of the imagination) and they’ve come up empty.
That’s completely inexcusable and a failure on their part.

Why have a 5 tier plan if we’re going to jump from level 2 to 5 overnight?
Their solution to everything is lockdown, lockdown, and more lockdown. It just isn’t good enough.

What is inexcusable is how the public managed to undo the very low level of cases during the summer.

Public + looseness around international travel

Not responsible for that many deaths as they have been low but all the other bad effects of lockdowns like lost income and isolation.

Nothing outrageous, simple logic.

Those who complain the most are the ones doing the damage.

sy_flembeck

SusieBlue wrote: »

After 8 months that’s still the best they can come up with, even though the initial lockdown was supposed to be an emergency temporary measure to give us time to get our house in order.

An emergency temporary measure like the USC was supposed to be? Whatever happened to that? Oh yeah....

SusieBlue

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

The reason there were so many admissions a proportion of which result in deaths in hospitals, and the reason thre were so many cases in nursing homes etc is a direct result of community transmission rates. The lower the community transmission the fewer the deaths, the fewer the cases in nursing homes etc


The failure of the public to adhere to public health guidelines the higher the numbers. It's about time people took responsibility for their actions.

Unfortunately I see widespread lack of social distancing and I'm out and about quite alot in the city. Surprise Surprise more cases surprise surprise more lockdowns. Tragically more deaths.

I have lost close relations as a result of covid and I know how highly infectious it is. I chose to keep 2m away from people.

I’m not talking about hospital admissions because of covid, I’m talking about people who were hospitalised for other health reasons, who contracted the virus while there.
Are you aware that 57% of current hospitalisations are of people who fall into this bracket?
How is it the fault of the public that these people caught the virus while receiving healthcare for other issues and weren’t protected?
It’s absolutely no reflection of the huge efforts we as a society have put in for the last 8 months.

Most nursing homes have banned visitors since March so community transmission is completely irrelevant.
If they were prioritised and given adequate PPE to begin with the numbers wouldn’t have been so big.
And just in the last few weeks the government have reduced testing capacity for this industry which is inexcusable given the number of deaths.

I’m very sorry that you have lost relatives to this illness but you are only responsible for yourself, no one is intentionally going around trying to invade your space and if you are that terrified of the virus maybe you shouldn’t be ‘out about about’ in the city so much.
It’s quite hypocritical that you are picking and choosing which rules apply, we are being told to limit our movements and stay at home unless absolutely necessary and meanwhile you’re complaining that people aren’t keeping enough distance while going out and about regularly.
It’s pot calling kettle black, to be quite honest.

SusieBlue

nofools wrote: »

What is inexcusable is how the public managed to undo the very low level of cases during the summer.

Public + looseness around international travel

Not responsible for that many deaths as they have been low but all the other bad effects of lockdowns like lost income and isolation.

Nothing outrageous, simple logic.

Those who complain the most are the ones doing the damage.

And yet when we had less than 5 cases a day for many weeks of the summer and 0 deaths the government still wouldn’t even entertain the idea of lifting the lockdown, even though that was probably the safest chance we’ll ever get to do so.

So why on earth would anyone be arsed following the rules this time around knowing full well that even if we eventually get the cases down to single digits after 3/4 months of lockdown; the government won’t lift the restrictions regardless. Because that’s exactly what they did the last time time.
Why make all that sacrifice only to have more hardship and isolation served up?
That’s why people are doing as they please and I don’t blame them one single bit.

Lockdown, lockdown and more lockdown just isn’t cutting it any more. People know now that even if they follow the rules to the letter like the majority did last time it will make absolutely no difference in the long run because lockdown is a suppressant and not a cure.
And a cure is the only thing that will stop these stupid rolling lockdowns.

Some_Person

nofools wrote: »

What is inexcusable is how the public managed to undo the very low level of cases during the summer.

Public + looseness around international travel

Not responsible for that many deaths as they have been low but all the other bad effects of lockdowns like lost income and isolation.

Nothing outrageous, simple logic.

Those who complain the most are the ones doing the damage.

Yes all those complaining business owners killing everyones grannies again.


Give it a rest Tony, the CCP will gladly weld you shut into your apartment over there, the airport is open....

duffmann

Don't tell the expats that foreign students/workers were never told to stop traveling during the pandemic. It keeps our broken rental market propped up.

Ted_YNWA

Mod

Yyhhuuu & acequion put each other on ignore if you can't get on. Do not derail this thread with your disagreement.

If anyone gets abuse either on-thread or via PM, report it. Don't retaliate as it only escalates.

Living Off The Splash

acequion wrote: »

But given how restricted our lives are, how many sacrifices people have been asked to make, more detail and more transparency is the least you'd expect.

Vagueness, secrecy and poor communication all breed distrust.

We hear the word "community transmission". Should the word community be replaced with the word....mystery transmission?

Maybe then, the trackers and tracers might look for more detail from those people testing positive.

Where have you been in the past week?
Did you visit a supermarket, hairdresser, gym etc.
Did you use public transport, a taxi?
Did you attend a funeral, event or similar.
Have you children in a creche, school....

etc. etc. etc.

It would certainly reduce the anxiety that many people are experiencing.

But there seems to be a reluctance from the government to pass on this information nine months on...do they even know?

Or maybe, they want to keep us in blissful ignorance and scare the crap out of us. Maybe they don't want to admit that it is back in nursing homes or among health care workers or spreading in the minority communities..

SB71

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201113%20-%20website.pdf

Travel abroad, incl. possible travel abroad - 1.43%

Holohan continues to say that travel is dangerous despite these miniscule figures which are probably even lower than this, just what is his agenda here,why has he since the very start blamed travel and pubs , they are the scapgeoat.

duffmann

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21863858
7:40minutes in, it blames foreign travel for the increase in cases

faceman

From this article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-member-warns-against-opening-pubs-easing-travel-rules-over-christmas-1.4410587

Dr Mary Favier of NPHET has said

wrote:

Asked about suggestions that people who received a negative test could travel home, she replied: “you could have a negative test every single day for the two weeks and you would still need to self-isolate.”

Can someone explain this one to me? Makes no sense.

Mr. Karate

faceman wrote: »

From this article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-member-warns-against-opening-pubs-easing-travel-rules-over-christmas-1.4410587

Dr Mary Favier of NPHET has said



Can someone explain this one to me? Makes no sense.

As if we needed any more proof that these measures were all about controlling people. Not a virus.

kippy

faceman wrote: »

From this article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-member-warns-against-opening-pubs-easing-travel-rules-over-christmas-1.4410587

Dr Mary Favier of NPHET has said



Can someone explain this one to me? Makes no sense.

The issue, probably is,
what is that person doing on the days between tests?
What happens if they are in contact with someone with the virus on day 10,11,12,13? The tests on those days would most likely not show up the presense of the virus. So despite the test showing no presense of the virus for 14 days, they could still be incubating the virus and not show on a test for a few days more.




Now, if that person was isolating for the 14 days they were getting tested......

seamus

faceman wrote: »

From this article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-member-warns-against-opening-pubs-easing-travel-rules-over-christmas-1.4410587

Dr Mary Favier of NPHET has said



Can someone explain this one to me? Makes no sense.

Basically there is a period of incubation where you have the virus, but you will test negative when tested.

This period is typically 2-5 days but two weeks is not unusual. I'm sure in some people it's longer again, but it's a statistically small number.

Thus it's imperative that someone restrict their movements for the full two weeks to give time for the virus to develop, if they have it.

This is why the restriction time for close contacts is two weeks, but the isolation period for positive cases is only ten days.

AdamD

Is it not over 90% of people develop it in 5 days or less? 2 weeks is more likely to be fringe cases than common

Thats me

AdamD wrote: »

Is it not over 90% of people develop it in 5 days or less? 2 weeks is more likely to be fringe cases than common

It is time to develop symptoms - typically 5-7 days, wast majority - no longer than 2 weeks (but there are cases when it was ~ 1 month between contamination and syptom appearance).

But any tests are having some level of false negatives (and false positives as well). Probably this is the reason why negatives not considered (but personally i would prefer conspiracy theory, of course).

SB71

duffmann wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21863858
7:40minutes in, it blames foreign travel for the increase in cases

without him producing a shred of evidence, unreal eh.

ceadaoin.

So what is the point of suggesting rapid testing as a solution for travel, events etc if you still could be infected at any time despite a negative test?

Credit Checker Moose

Just to let Leo know, I shall be travelling home for Xmas.

seamus

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So what is the point of suggesting rapid testing as a solution for travel, events etc if you still could be infected at any time despite a negative test?

Because these tests should be OK in the absence of any other risk factors, such as being a close contact.

That is, if 200 people all get onto a flight having tested negative beforehand and without being a close contact beforehand, then the chances that any of them will develop symptoms two weeks after the flights are pretty small.

But it does present a greater risk than simply not allowing the flight at all.

The issue is our reliance on people to be responsible. In the likes of China people will be locked into isolation for two weeks, job done.

Here, people are trusted to keep themselves isolated.

When it comes to travel and events, this creates an obvious problem. If I have tickets to see Dublin win the All-Ireland tomorrow, and I was notified yesterday that I was a close contact, then I might head down to the stadium and see if I can get in. The worst that can happen (for me) is that I test positive and I get sent home.
Of course, the worst that can happen is that I test negative, I get into the stadium, and spread the virus to twenty people around me.

The same will apply to flights. Most people will cancel a booked flight if they're put into isolation. But the odd few will chance their arm. And they're the issue.

fawlty682

If the virus is so devious that a test everyday for 14 days is not enough, we can’t win. I suspect it’s this absolute abhorrence of travel shared by NPHET and Government. It’s convenient to blame other countries same as blaming the north for Donegals virus. The6 are clapping themselves on the back now, however Ireland’s low virus is only because people have endured the longest periods of restriction in Europe.

Akabusi

I'd say she just messed up for she was trying to communicate, no need to think too deeply into it, off course it make no sense.

paw patrol

Mr. Karate wrote: »

As if we needed any more proof that these measures were all about controlling people. Not a virus.

hard to argue with this when you see comments like the ones quoted in the OP

kippy

paw patrol wrote: »

hard to argue with this when you see comments like the ones quoted in the OP

The only way the virus spreads is via people.
Controlling the spread involves controlling the movement and actions of people.
Shouldnt need pointing out.

Bit pointless telling the virus to restrict itself........


I'm as torn apart as others about this restrictions and my outlook has changed in many ways since March but the basics and science are still the same.

Thats me

kippy wrote: »

The only way the virus spreads is via people.

Thanks for protecting our minks!

kippy

Thats me wrote: »

Thanks for protecting our minks!

Ah yeah, and other animals.

But look, if the accusation is that the restrictions are all about controlling people and not the virus, the yes, that is what is happening.
The control of virus spread via the control of people.

SwordofLight

Don't forget the fact that the testing can fail. I've heard from doctors it is only able to detect the virus in 80% of cases.

Also, when you go abroad, you might pick the virus up, possibly a new strain of it, and develop symptoms immediately, or up to 14 days after picking it up. You may actually have the virus for months (rare but can happen) and have no symptoms, but be infectious. That renders the 14 days self-isolation ineffective, but it does again reduce risk a lot.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

From this article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-member-warns-against-opening-pubs-easing-travel-rules-over-christmas-1.4410587

Dr Mary Favier of NPHET has said



Can someone explain this one to me? Makes no sense.

You might be negative, but the person squashed next to you on the airplane might not be.

Beasty

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