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Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]
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Charles Babbage wrote: »You posted a falsehood that Ireland had the harshest lockdown in Europe, I called you out on this. I have no interest in debating, only that you stop posting exaggerations.
Not sure about the harshest but we've certainly had the longest, could argue about harshest too: World's strictest lockdowns0 -
So they don’t want people to fly home or Christmas, but it appears that someone sanctioned an Aer Lingus flight to/from Beirut with refugees onboard.
You really couldn’t make this stuff up.0 -
Charles Babbage wrote: »If anyone heard the Joe Duffy show today there was an account from a guy who travelled to Malaga on business. His plane had a large party who spent their time drinking at the airport beforehand and who then arrived on the plane without masks and spent the flight walking around the fighting among themselves.
Now the point about this was that Michael O'Leary and the DAA are forever complaining about the government and claiming that travel is safe, yet they allow this sort of carry on. They are interested in your money but not in providing a safe travel environment.
Hmmmm, I wonder who could have been so irresponsible to behave like this. https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-face-masks-no-social-distancing-my-journey-to-spain-was-flight-from-hell-39768900.html0 -
Mongfinder General wrote: »Hmmmm, I wonder who could have been so irresponsible to behave like this. https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-face-masks-no-social-distancing-my-journey-to-spain-was-flight-from-hell-39768900.html
More surprised they have the bars open0 -
Not sure about the harshest but we've certainly had the longest, could argue about harshest too: World's strictest lockdowns
Wow, what a reliable source. Its bull****. Absolute bull****. I have listed nations that imposed harsher and for longer.
Why do people act as if Ireland has been lockdowned for 8 straight months? We were not.
Again, I went to a restaurant for a meal, watched football in a pub, went to the cinema, gym, bowling during the summer and faced restrictions that the rest of europe also had. I faced their restrictions because I got on a plane and flew there. I cant list every nation as I obviously havent been everywhere but where I was and know people living, they had it worse. Far worse.
Do you folks really hand on heart think that the entire summer in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece was life as normal? It wasnt. It was great because they were inside an apartment for 4 ****ing months and only allowed outside to walk the bloody dog and go to genuinely essential appointments but the new freedom they had was still restricted like ours. Oh actually no, it wasnt because we could never be arrested or fined for not wearing a mask or carrying ID
Spanish people werent going to the boozer, eatting out or hitting the gym anymore than you were and they certainly are not now either.
Now add in the threat of refusing their own citizens from entering the country without either a test or a fine compared to our 'suggestions about maybe not prancing in the fields for 2 weeks'. Cmon folks0 -
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Niner leprauchan wrote: »Wow, what a reliable source. Its bull****. Absolute bull****. I have listed nations that imposed harsher and for longer.
Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government - a reliable source, I'd say so.
Reuters fibbing to I guess.0 -
Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government - a reliable source, I'd say so.
Why? Its only ten years old. Offered a generic degree and is funded by a business man with some questionable connections and a bias in government policy making.
They havent outlined how they scored their study. When I see the actual study, I will comment but again I find the suggestion that our phase 5 is more restrictive than Spain and Italy in April and May to be absolutely laughable.
Why not have a look yourself instead of just linking to articles? Is reuters aware that parts of Spain have now gone back to full lockdown? Oh wait, that articles a month old and only compares our Level 5 in October to other nations. So no, not reliable to prove the point you are trying.
read something a little more accurate in comparing November to November
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/17/italy-spain-report-highest-daily-covid-deaths-second-wave
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/europes-second-wave-anger-in-italy-as-covid-restrictions-bite-across-continent
Edited to add: I cannot locate the source material for HOW Ireland was rated at a 90 in Aril compared to Spain at 80. No explanation appears on that website. How do we know the information is accurate? Do they score Irelands 5km rule equally to spains 10 minute rule even though one carried no penalty and the second carried a power of arrest?
They include medical responses and fiscal. Does Ireland score higher because our financial investment in ICU care was behind other nations? We dont knot0 -
Niner leprauchan wrote: »
Why not have a look yourself instead of just linking to articles? Is reuters aware that parts of Spain have now gone back to full lockdown? Oh wait, that articles a month old and only compares our Level 5 in October to other nations. So no, not reliable to prove the point you are trying.
Care to enlighten me as to the point I was trying to make then???
We are still restricted, these restrictions have not been lifted since March, making us the longest in lockdown, yes, you could go to a hairdresser or bar just like you could in Spain and Italy too.0 -
Spanish Eyes wrote: »Such babies
At least half the Irish right now described in two words
People acting like spoilt fúcking children everywhere to see0 -
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Care to enlighten me as to the point I was trying to make then???
We are still restricted, these restrictions have not been lifted since March, making us the longest in lockdown, yes, you could go to a hairdresser or bar just like you could in Spain and Italy too.
well considering thats the absurd stance you take, I see little point in continuing. Prey tell what you could not do in August? I recall doing absolutely everything I could last August and the August before that. It appears you read articles, dont engage in critical thought on the content and just accept the headline.
If Ireland has been in lockdown since March then so has every other nation and they entered them first so please, explain why Ireland has been on constant lockdown but Spain hasnt?0 -
Niner leprauchan wrote: »I see little point in continuing.
Lockdown since March FFS!
Good, we have been restricted in some form or other since this thing broke, travel, pubs, sporting events, where have you been????
Did you walk around a shop in August without a mask? Did you attend a full house in Croke park or the Aviva?
I pointed out we have had the longest lockdown that is all, I agreed it was arguable about the 'harshest' but that's for each to decide themselves, nit you.0 -
Good, we have been restricted in some form or other since this thing broke, travel, pubs, sporting events, where have you been????
Did you walk around a shop in August without a mask? Did you attend a full house in Croke park or the Aviva?
I pointed out we have had the longest lockdown that is all, I agreed it was arguable about the 'harshest' but that's for each to decide themselves, nit you.
I walked around a shop on Ireland without a mask, not Spain. I didnt attend the classico in Madrid either so again, how is our lockdown longer than theirs if its based on not attending a sporting event?
again, if 'lockdown' is because there was a Covid restriction in place, how is Ireland longer than Spain or Italy? Second time of asking0 -
Niner leprauchan wrote: »Wow, what a reliable source. Its bull****. Absolute bull****. I have listed nations that imposed harsher and for longer.
Why do people act as if Ireland has been lockdowned for 8 straight months? We were not.
Again, I went to a restaurant for a meal, watched football in a pub, went to the cinema, gym, bowling during the summer and faced restrictions that the rest of europe also had. I faced their restrictions because I got on a plane and flew there. I cant list every nation as I obviously havent been everywhere but where I was and know people living, they had it worse. Far worse.
Do you folks really hand on heart think that the entire summer in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece was life as normal? It wasnt. It was great because they were inside an apartment for 4 ****ing months and only allowed outside to walk the bloody dog and go to genuinely essential appointments but the new freedom they had was still restricted like ours. Oh actually no, it wasnt because we could never be arrested or fined for not wearing a mask or carrying ID
Spanish people werent going to the boozer, eatting out or hitting the gym anymore than you were and they certainly are not now either.
Now add in the threat of refusing their own citizens from entering the country without either a test or a fine compared to our 'suggestions about maybe not prancing in the fields for 2 weeks'. Cmon folks
Wow but you've got yourself all fired up about all of this haven't you!
And yes I have had this argument with you before and find myself having it with you again now. For some reason the truth really seems to hurt some of you people. You just cannot seem to accept the fact that Ireland's response to Covid has been harshest because it's been longest and been mainly unmitigated. In another thread I've seen you get annoyed at people over their dislike of Tony Holohan. A man with a proven record of dishonesty!
Do you think you're the only one here who knows about Spain? I know a lot about Spain and I was there in July and again in August. No comparison between life there and life here in that period. Life was pretty normal apart from mask wearing, distancing and sanitising which I personally don't find restrictive. Back here it was non stop hysteria, non stop evening reading of numbers, non stop NPHET being "concerned" and "next two weeks will be critical" even though case numbers were down to single digits. Yes Spanish media were also reporting but to nowhere near the levels of negativity and hysteria as here, nor was there a deliberate bias against travelling. I speak fluent Spanish and have a Spanish partner. It may have been different elsewhere such as in Aragon and Catalonia but down in Torrevieja life was quite normal.
I'm not going to repeat all I've said earlier. But you'd have a hard job to convince me that Ireland has not been consistently very restrictive about Covid. Ireland this century has become very bureaucratic and rule obsessed. And I personally don't like it but others are free to interpret it differently.0 -
Wow but you've got yourself all fired up about all of this haven't you!
And yes I have had this argument with you before and find myself having it with you again now. For some reason the truth really seems to hurt some of you people. You just cannot seem to accept the fact that Ireland's response to Covid has been harshest because it's been longest and been mainly unmitigated. In another thread I've seen you get annoyed at people over their dislike of Tony Holohan. A man with a proven record of dishonesty!
Do you think you're the only one here who knows about Spain? I know a lot about Spain and I was there in July and again in August. No comparison between life there and life here in that period. Life was pretty normal apart from mask wearing, distancing and sanitising which I personally don't find restrictive. Back here it was non stop hysteria, non stop evening reading of numbers, non stop NPHET being "concerned" and "next two weeks will be critical" even though case numbers were down to single digits. Yes Spanish media were also reporting but to nowhere near the levels of negativity and hysteria here, nor was there a deliberate bias towards travelling. I speak fluent Spanish and have a Spanish partner. It may have been different elsewhere such as Aragon and Catalonia but down in Torrevieja life was quite normal.
I'm not going to repeat all I've said earlier. But you'd have a hard job to convince me that Ireland has not been consistently very restrictive about Covid. Ireland this century has become very bureaucratic and rule obsessed. And I personally don't like it but others are free to interpret it differently.
I dont like agendas and yes, I will defend people if I think they are mistreated. The man is doing his best with personal circumstances that make it difficult on him. Possible causes some bias too. I defend the poor sap who has to call us and sprout ****e about restricting movement for the same reason. They are doing a job and shouldnt be abused over it.
Thats neither here nore there. We had this before and it was then pointed out as now. Point for point, we have neither been harsh nor the longest. Each aspect imposed on Ireland has been imposed in Spain with harsher penalties for breaches. In many cases, we can coimpletely ignore them while they can be arrested.
Lets look at Masks, in Ireland they are only compulsary in certain indoor areas, in Spain they are mandatory in all public areas. In Ireland the shop most ask you to comply and only after that can the police engage. In Spain the police can demand ID and arrest you straight away. In Ireland you do not need any proof os exemption to wearing a mask, just say you are. in Spain you need a medical letter from a professional.
What about travel? Well in ireland its discouraged but you can get a plane in and out if you want without any medical checks or reasoning. In Spain you need a test to enter soon and cannot engage in non essential travel internally. Ireland has no enforcement beyong a tracking form, Spain has police stopping people coming in and leaving and demanding proof of travel and reason. You need to consent to a medical test on arrival as well as producing a covid19 test prior to travel.
But local travel is harsher. Is it? In ireland you can travel within 5km for as long as you like for whatever you like and no proof is needed if you go further once you give a reason. In Spain theres a curfew in place in areas at night and during daytime you are limited in the distance you can go and why. All breaches in Spain are subject to fine and possible arrest if warranted.
Pubs? Restaurants? Cinema? Gym? Closed in some areas of Spain depending on local levels the same as Ireland
Sporting events? No spectators just as per Ireland.
Simple question as above, if all it takes is some form of Covid related restriction to use the term 'lockdown' then how are we worse or longer than Spain, France and Italy to name just 3?0 -
Actually it’s the first time you’ve asked, we’ve simply had a greater level of restrictions for longer, that simple.Niner leprauchan wrote: »again, if 'lockdown' is because there was a Covid restriction in place, how is Ireland longer than Spain or Italy? Second time of asking0 -
Actually it’s the first time you’ve asked
He states while not producing any proof.
Still waiting on an explanation as to what we have had that Spain hasnt. You mentioned sports. Is that now off the table considering that applies across the entire continent?
Again I shall ask, what have we had that Spain hasnt had and how if they entered lockdown first and constinues, have we had it longer?Actually it’s the first time you’ve asked,
Is it really?Niner leprauchan wrote: »If Ireland has been in lockdown since March then so has every other nation and they entered them first so please, explain why Ireland has been on constant lockdown but Spain hasnt?Niner leprauchan wrote: »again, if 'lockdown' is because there was a Covid restriction in place, how is Ireland longer than Spain or Italy? Second time of asking0 -
Niner leprauchan wrote: »He states while not producing any proof.
Still waiting on an explanation as to what we have had that Spain hasnt. You mentioned sports. Is that now off the table considering that applies across the entire continent?
Again I shall ask, what have we had that Spain hasnt had and how if they entered lockdown first and constinues, have we had it longer?
Is it really?
Just read the post, I'm not trying to race Ireland against Spain in some weird lockdown race, just saying that we've spent longer under stricter restrictions. If you want more then go google it, I could
Edit, just saw where you asked, apols, saw you going off on one as usual so stopped reading, I agree there are other countries who have had harder restrictions (penalties) but they've also been reprieved when we've been left on the shelf, did we actually ever make it to L1 - bars etc open, no isolation on return from abroad etc? I don't think so.0 -
So why are refugees allowed into Ireland, but Irish people are being demonized for even considering international travel?0
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Niner leprauchan wrote: »I dont like agendas and yes, I will defend people if I think they are mistreated. The man is doing his best with personal circumstances that make it difficult on him. Possible causes some bias too. I defend the poor sap who has to call us and sprout ****e about restricting movement for the same reason. They are doing a job and shouldnt be abused over it.
Thats neither here nore there. We had this before and it was then pointed out as now. Point for point, we have neither been harsh nor the longest. Each aspect imposed on Ireland has been imposed in Spain with harsher penalties for breaches. In many cases, we can coimpletely ignore them while they can be arrested.
Lets look at Masks, in Ireland they are only compulsary in certain indoor areas, in Spain they are mandatory in all public areas. In Ireland the shop most ask you to comply and only after that can the police engage. In Spain the police can demand ID and arrest you straight away. In Ireland you do not need any proof os exemption to wearing a mask, just say you are. in Spain you need a medical letter from a professional.
What about travel? Well in ireland its discouraged but you can get a plane in and out if you want without any medical checks or reasoning. In Spain you need a test to enter soon and cannot engage in non essential travel internally. Ireland has no enforcement beyong a tracking form, Spain has police stopping people coming in and leaving and demanding proof of travel and reason. You need to consent to a medical test on arrival as well as producing a covid19 test prior to travel.
But local travel is harsher. Is it? In ireland you can travel within 5km for as long as you like for whatever you like and no proof is needed if you go further once you give a reason. In Spain theres a curfew in place in areas at night and during daytime you are limited in the distance you can go and why. All breaches in Spain are subject to fine and possible arrest if warranted.
Pubs? Restaurants? Cinema? Gym? Closed in some areas of Spain depending on local levels the same as Ireland
Sporting events? No spectators just as per Ireland.
Simple question as above, if all it takes is some form of Covid related restriction to use the term 'lockdown' then how are we worse or longer than Spain, France and Italy to name just 3?
Wow! A few weeks ago you accused me of being confrontational but you are now being extremely confrontational and downright antagonistic to those disagreeing with you!
On Tony Holohan. I applaud your compassion for his personal circumstances, however his personal circumstances, like all our personal circumstances, is completely irrelevant when it comes to professional performance. You either do a job properly and if you can't you have to make way to those who can.Especially if your job carries huge responsibility. His behaviour and attitude in the cervical check debacle was nothing short of scandalous. I'd imagine Vicky Phelan would have a thing or two to say and many other women. Therefore many people don't trust the man. No agenda, just trust not earned and saying that he is "mistreated" because of that is laughable. The man should have been sacked.
Back to the issue. Look at the emboldened above. Completely wrong. Bars, restaurants, cinemas gyms are not just closed in some areas as in Spain, they're closed nationwide. Wet pubs have been closed for 7 of the past 8 months. Other pubs had to serve food so you couldn't just go in and get a drink. Elsewhere in Europe you could. Hairdressers were back open in most continental countries by early June, here it was early July. You talk of fines being imposed in Spain, have you forgotten that they can be imposed here as well for breaking restrictions such as the 5km? Some breaches can incur a prison sentence so I'd consider that fairly harsh. And as for retail, go into any Dunnes Stores and you'll find the retail section all cordoned off. Is that sort of silly, petty restriction going on nationwide in Spain, in France?? I'd be very surprised.
We all know that the police in Spain can be very strict and we all know how harsh the first lockdown was. Nobody is disputing that. In Italy too. The point myself and other posters are trying to make is that restrictions as a whole have gone on for longer here. Yes there was a brief time here when you could go to a restaurant, go to the hairdresser, stay in a hotel, not go for a drink though, but that window of opportunity was shorter here than anywhere else.
And as for the new rules in Spain about PCR tests. Our argument is about the past 8 months, not the future. Let's have this argument again in a few months and it may be different. But do remember that Spain never imposed a quarantine /restrict movements as we did here. And do any of us know that mandatory PCR testing will not become the norm everywhere? As of yet it's just speculation.
The evidence is overwhelming that our restrictions have lasted longer than elsewhere with the duration of closures and the nationwide approach. Stricter, as someone else said, is open to interpretation. I really don't understand why you're getting so upset that people in Ireland are very unhappy about that and need to complain. Maybe you should apply a little of the understand you so generously apply to Tony Holohan!0 -
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Wow! A few weeks ago you accused me of being confrontational but you are now being extremely confrontational and downright antagonistic to those disagreeing with you!
On Tony Holohan. I applaud your compassion for his personal circumstances, however his personal circumstances, like all our personal circumstances, is completely irrelevant when it comes to professional performance. You either do a job properly and if you can't you have to make way to those who can.Especially if your job carries huge responsibility. His behaviour and attitude in the cervical check debacle was nothing short of scandalous. I'd imagine Vicky Phelan would have a thing or two to say and many other women. Therefore many people don't trust the man. No agenda, just trust not earned and saying that he is "mistreated" because of that is laughable. The man should have been sacked.
Back to the issue. Look at the emboldened above. Completely wrong. Bars, restaurants, cinemas gyms are not just closed in some areas as in Spain, they're closed nationwide. Wet pubs have been closed for 7 of the past 8 months. Other pubs had to serve food so you couldn't just go in and get a drink. Elsewhere in Europe you could. Hairdressers were back open in most continental countries by early June, here it was early July. You talk of fines being imposed in Spain, have you forgotten that they can be imposed here as well for breaking restrictions such as the 5km? Some breaches can incur a prison sentence so I'd consider that fairly harsh. And as for retail, go into any Dunnes Stores and you'll find the retail section all cordoned off. Is that sort of silly, petty restriction going on nationwide in Spain, in France?? I'd be very surprised.
We all know that the police in Spain can be very strict and we all know how harsh the first lockdown was. Nobody is disputing that. In Italy too. The point myself and other posters are trying to make is that restrictions as a whole have gone on for longer here. Yes there was a brief time here when you could go to a restaurant, go to the hairdresser, stay in a hotel, not go for a drink though, but that window of opportunity was shorter here than anywhere else.
And as for the new rules in Spain about PCR tests. Our argument is about the past 8 months, not the future. Let's have this argument again in a few months and it may be different. But do remember that Spain never imposed a quarantine /restrict movements as we did here. And do any of us know that mandatory PCR testing will not become the norm everywhere? As of yet it's just speculation.
The evidence is overwhelming that our restrictions have lasted longer than elsewhere with the duration of closures and the nationwide approach. Stricter, as someone else said, is open to interpretation. I really don't understand why you're getting so upset that people in Ireland are very unhappy about that and need to complain. Maybe you should apply a little of the understand you so generously apply to Tony Holohan!
Nope, you and others have stated that Ireland is undergoing the harshest and longest lockdown there is. Thats incorrect as I have demonstrated but then, as per the previous conversations, you arent really aware of whats taking place abroad and dont seem capable ot actually showing HOW Ireland is so harsh or how it is longer when your criteria for a lockdown is still in place in the continent and has been since before us.
So I ask again, how is Ireland harsher and longer? How? Above you admit Spain was harsh and it started first. Dont try and side step by asking why I annoyed that you complain because thats not it at all. if you want to complain, thats fine but dont tell complete lies when doing so and try and underplay what the other nations have suffered.0 -
An observation from reading posts from a number of people on this forum...... I get the distinct impression that there's an awful lot of people who really do dislike Ireland and living in this country. Surely if you're all so unhappy the sensible thing to do would be just to leave and make a life in one of these countries that appear to be less draconian, less harsh and less restrictive than Ireland? If it's such a horrible place just go.0
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An observation from reading posts from a number of people on this forum...... I get the distinct impression that there's an awful lot of people who really do dislike Ireland and living in this country. Surely if you're all so unhappy the sensible thing to do would be just to leave and make a life in one of these countries that appear to be less draconian, less harsh and less restrictive than Ireland? If it's such a horrible place just go.
If only life was that simple....0 -
Niner leprauchan wrote: »Nope, you and others have stated that Ireland is undergoing the harshest and longest lockdown there is. Thats incorrect as I have demonstrated but then, as per the previous conversations, you arent really aware of whats taking place abroad and dont seem capable ot actually showing HOW Ireland is so harsh or how it is longer when your criteria for a lockdown is still in place in the continent and has been since before us.
So I ask again, how is Ireland harsher and longer? How? Above you admit Spain was harsh and it started first
I don't like your tone. I really don't like your confrontational, antagonistic attitude.
Nothing I have said is incorrect and no you have not demonstrated anything at all, add arrogance to my list of dislikes about your posts and tone. Another poster has also tried to argue with you with plenty of evidence but came up against a brick wall and has sensibly given up.
I also resent the insulting nature of the emboldened bits above. You obviously didn't bother reading my posts fully. I know Spain as well, if not better than you and as I stated I'm fully aware of how it was there in the first lockdown. I also have ties in both France and Italy so know quite a bit about how it's been there too. Over a number of long posts I made fully clear with several examples how the restrictions in Ireland have been the longest and arguably among the harshest. I never said we have "the harshest and longest lockdown there is", never even mentioned the word "lockdown" so please stop twisting my words. I have no intention of boring the other posters who come on here to talk about travel by repeating myself ad nauseum because you, who I used to think was a reasonable poster, are just spoiling for a fight and won't accept anything I say.
So I've better things to be doing and am off to enjoy my weekend!0 -
So what advantages does orange bring? Can we get inti Germany now without a test? What about the canaries? Do we still need a test?0
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I don't like your tone. I really don't like your confrontational, antagonistic attitude.
Nothing I have said is incorrect and no you have not demonstrated anything at all, add arrogance to my list of dislikes about your posts and tone. Another poster has also tried to argue with you with plenty of evidence but came up against a brick wall and has sensibly given up.
I also resent the insulting nature of the emboldened bits above. You obviously didn't bother reading my posts fully. I know Spain as well, if not better than you and as I stated I'm fully aware of how it was there in the first lockdown. I also have ties in both France and Italy so know quite a bit about how it's been there too. Over a number of long posts I made fully clear with several examples how the restrictions in Ireland have been the longest and arguably among the harshest. I never said we have "the harshest and longest lockdown there is", never even mentioned the word "lockdown" so please stop twisting my words. I have no intention of boring the other posters who come on here to talk about travel by repeating myself ad nauseum because you, who I used to think was a reasonable poster, are just spoiling for a fight and won't accept anything I say.
So I've better things to be doing and am off to enjoy my weekend!
again I ask but expect no answer, if Spain and Italy entered lockdown before us and continue to face the same if not harsher restrictions, how is ours the longest? Seriously, what aspect of our current situation causes time to change?
Ireland took the very first step in restrictions on the 12th March.
Spain took the very first step on the 9th March in Haro
Italy took the very first step on the 22nd February in 11 areas.
France took the first step on the 12th March
Greece took the first step on the 9th March
Slovakia started 29th February
Bulgaria started on the 8th March
Austria started on the 10th March
Germany started on the 29th January (26th February for local restrictions)
All of those nations have had Covid19 related restrictions in place since. Not a single one of them has cancelled all Covid19 measures and restrictions.None of them, just to pick an example, has allowed fans attend large sporting events. So exactly how is Ireland the longest? What is the criteria being used here to justify this claim?
In regards harshest regime. Theres so many things to point at and again, without being allowed examine the numbers, we cant establish how accurate the index from Oxford is. Looking at again, common themes;
Masks. mandatory in all the above countries in public. Only indoors in Ireland. Enforcement of an on the spot fine for not wearing one. Irish police cannot take direct action without first being requested.
International travel. Ireland never restricted travel inward or outward. A contact tracing form for arrivals is the only legal requirement with an optional 'recommended' 14 days restricted movement.
Compared to Spain which closed its borders to non nationals and emergency / essential trips albeit with no isolation requirement for those that were allowed in.
France closed its borders
As did Slovakia which also had mandatory quarantine
Germany was pretty relaxed in this regard to be fair with rolling country specific restrictions only and never a full closure of its borders.
Bulgaria closed its borders at stages, had a mandatory quarantine with fines and imprisonment for breaches
Internal travel:
Ireland made recommendations which carried no legal enforcement powers until the limit of 5km. That was abandoned in June and then brought back. Essential travel is and was exempt and there is no requirement to provide proof to avail of the exemption.
Spain, curfews, ten minute limit from home, essential travel exemption required written proof in some areas. Fines and possible arrest for breaches.
France had something similar to Ireland but you were required to provide your reason for travel in writing, the limit was 1km and for a maximum of 1 hour per day. Again fines for breaches. Allow me to repeat that 1km for 1 hour.
Bulgaria placed various areas in quarantine and placed roadblocks up stopping entry and exit. There doesnt appear to have been a nationwide general limit.
Closed premises (Socialising and workplaces).
Ireland hit pubs hard. I agree on that. Unfairly I think but overall the response was in line with other nations. Only Belarus and Sweden did in fact not close these premises down. Ireland was slower to start reopening again but no nation fully reopened premises. Social distancing was enforced and take-away only in places deemed unsuitable for distancing in food and beverage locations. I cannot speak for Spain as a whole but I know my area did not allow gyms or pubs to reopen at all. France did allow pubs it seems in some areas.
Sporting events: Europe as a whole stopped sporting events and has not allowed fans back in when restarting. Only Belarus continued to allow fans attend.
Im genuinely baffled by how you make the claim about either longevity or measures. i really am and allow me to leave this here:
"By 31 March, police had issued 100,000 citations and arrested 1,000 people for violating social distancing regulations" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Spain#Quarantines_and_lockdowns). Social distancing which Gardai have no powers to enforce here.
I will agree that the Irish are absolutely obsessed with doom and gloom, curtain twitching and finger wagging. Less so than the areas I have travelled to in Spain and France.0 -
folks came home from Spain on Wednesday after being in ther apartment in Benalmadena since the start of September.
tourist areas are dead. every irish bar they know of is closed indefinetely.
the smaller Spanish areas are doing ok (none touristy).
6pm curfew is fine, shops stayed open for essentials - they wouldnt sell alchohol after 6pm!
restaurants were doing delivery only, no collections. they said theres mopeds flying around the place with deliveries at night time.
they would eat ot only once a week over there so didnt really affect them. in fairness if i was them i would have stayed there for Xmas..
Southern Spain isnt bad apart from Granada, theyre ****ing it for everyone. Madrid and Barcelona still bad apparently.
just a little insight into life there lately.0 -
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Niner leprauchan wrote: »again I ask but expect no answer, if Spain and Italy entered lockdown before us and continue to face the same if not harsher restrictions, how is ours the longest? Seriously, what aspect of our current situation causes time to change?
Ireland took the very first step in restrictions on the 12th March.
Spain took the very first step on the 9th March in Haro
Italy took the very first step on the 22nd February in 11 areas.
France took the first step on the 12th March
Greece took the first step on the 9th March
Slovakia started 29th February
Bulgaria started on the 8th March
Austria started on the 10th March
Germany started on the 29th January (26th February for local restrictions)
All of those nations have had Covid19 related restrictions in place since. Not a single one of them has cancelled all Covid19 measures and restrictions.None of them, just to pick an example, has allowed fans attend large sporting events. So exactly how is Ireland the longest? What is the criteria being used here to justify this claim?
In regards harshest regime. Theres so many things to point at and again, without being allowed examine the numbers, we cant establish how accurate the index from Oxford is. Looking at again, common themes;
Masks. mandatory in all the above countries in public. Only indoors in Ireland. Enforcement of an on the spot fine for not wearing one. Irish police cannot take direct action without first being requested.
International travel. Ireland never restricted travel inward or outward. A contact tracing form for arrivals is the only legal requirement with an optional 'recommended' 14 days restricted movement.
Compared to Spain which closed its borders to non nationals and emergency / essential trips albeit with no isolation requirement for those that were allowed in.
France closed its borders
As did Slovakia which also had mandatory quarantine
Germany was pretty relaxed in this regard to be fair with rolling country specific restrictions only and never a full closure of its borders.
Bulgaria closed its borders at stages, had a mandatory quarantine with fines and imprisonment for breaches
Internal travel:
Ireland made recommendations which carried no legal enforcement powers until the limit of 5km. That was abandoned in June and then brought back. Essential travel is and was exempt and there is no requirement to provide proof to avail of the exemption.
Spain, curfews, ten minute limit from home, essential travel exemption required written proof in some areas. Fines and possible arrest for breaches.
France had something similar to Ireland but you were required to provide your reason for travel in writing, the limit was 1km and for a maximum of 1 hour per day. Again fines for breaches. Allow me to repeat that 1km for 1 hour.
Bulgaria placed various areas in quarantine and placed roadblocks up stopping entry and exit. There doesnt appear to have been a nationwide general limit.
Closed premises (Socialising and workplaces).
Ireland hit pubs hard. I agree on that. Unfairly I think but overall the response was in line with other nations. Only Belarus and Sweden did in fact not close these premises down. Ireland was slower to start reopening again but no nation fully reopened premises. Social distancing was enforced and take-away only in places deemed unsuitable for distancing in food and beverage locations. I cannot speak for Spain as a whole but I know my area did not allow gyms or pubs to reopen at all. France did allow pubs it seems in some areas.
Sporting events: Europe as a whole stopped sporting events and has not allowed fans back in when restarting. Only Belarus continued to allow fans attend.
Im genuinely baffled by how you make the claim about either longevity or measures. i really am and allow me to leave this here:
"By 31 March, police had issued 100,000 citations and arrested 1,000 people for violating social distancing regulations" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Spain#Quarantines_and_lockdowns). Social distancing which Gardai have no powers to enforce here.
I will agree that the Irish are absolutely obsessed with doom and gloom, curtain twitching and finger wagging. Less so than the areas I have travelled to in Spain and France.
I make my claim that our restrictions here have been the longest and among the harshest for the following reasons:
Firstly, so many services have been closed and closed nationwide for longer than anywhere else. I'm attaching below a very good article from the BBC which details how restrictions were eased around Europe after the first wave and I think it's very clear that in the majority of countries restrictions on services such as restaurants, bars, cinemas, gyms, hairdressers, beauticians, churches and more were relaxed much earlier than in Ireland. We also know that Ireland was one of the first to reimpose nationwide restrictions for the second phase with level 3 being imposed at the start of October and level 5 on the 22nd. Almost all other countries reacted later. Therefore Ireland enjoyed normality for a much shorter period than elsewhere.
Secondly, on paper you may only have had to fill out a form to travel and restrict movements may only be a request, but in reality, forced unpaid leave on thousands of workers who wish to travel plus a campaign to demonise travel has resulted in a ban more effective than anything legal with disastrous consequences for aviation, regional airports and the many dependent industries.
Thirdly, unrelenting media hysteria and fearmongering have created a toxic atmosphere in Ireland which, from many anecdotal accounts including my own, is far less intense elsewhere and non existent in parts.
So while Ireland had a lighter initial lockdown and Garda powers are not as heavy handed as in some other counties the crux of the matter is that there has been little real release in Ireland and many businesses have been squeezed more than elsewhere. That's why I feel that overall it has been worse here. You and others may continue to disagree and that's fine. But please stop disrespecting my viewpoint and calling me a liar. And stop implying that I am in any way disregarding the sufferings in other countries.
Also I really would like to wrap up this argument now as it's derailing this thread. I don't think the mods will be too pleased when they see how this disagreement has rambled on.
/www.bbc.com/news/explainers-525753130
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